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Lockjaw of House Boltagon

Will Jon and Melisandre hook up eventually?

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The topic goes a bit deeper than that, I hope, but I needed an attention-getter ;)

Anyway, in AFFC and ADWD we have the parallelism of Jon, Dany and Cersei being in a position of power and failing, to different degrees. Grrm has even said that he regrets not being able to fit all their arcs in one book to highlight the similarities. The thing is that Dany and Cersei seem to have changed for the worse after their stint as queens: The former embraces her "monstrous" Fire and Blood persona instead of her more peaceful approach, and the latter only gets more subtle and cunning in her villainy after the Walk of Shame.

So I don't think Jon's going to come back from the dead all improved and more morally right. Grrm has criticized Tolkien for doing that with Gandalf. I expect a darker, more ruthless Jon to come back. At the very least, I think he'll learn the Jaime Lannister lesson: That oaths and vows mean jackshit, you'll end up breaking one or more eventually and people will give you shit regardless.

So as a physical manifestation of this change in character, I think he'll accept and reciprocate Mel's advances, which he continually refused during most of ADWD. I don't think they will fall in love or anything like that, but it'll be this purely carnal, sexual release totally unlike the old Jon, signaling his setting aside his vows.

Alternatively, I can see him and Val hooking up too, but doing it with Mel would signal a more dramatic turning point, IMO.

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There is major potential for Jon to use a shadowbaby to win Dance 2.0, and it does seem likely that Jon will come back in some way stoneheartified - he may be willing to use magic to kill his enemies.

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15 minutes ago, The Young_Lion said:

There is major potential for Jon to use a shadowbaby to win Dance 2.0, and it does seem likely that Jon will come back in some way stoneheartified - he may be willing to use magic to kill his enemies.

For what it's worth I don't think Jon will be involved in Dance 2.0. I think that will be Dany-Aegon thing without Jon's involvement. And Dany will ultimately win because the mummer's dragon are something thrown in so the heroes will have something to fight. I don't even think Jon will find out about his true parentage in enough time for it to spark a conflict between him and Dany.

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2 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Why there are so many threads about Jon's love life lately? Anyway, I don't see Jon have a sexual relationship with Mel.

Well, he is quite popular with the ladies (like his father...and his uncle, I guess).

As for the potential shadowbabies, I've been waiting for some ever since Mel said the shadows she'd give birth to at the Wall would be terrible. I expect no less than a veritable army of shadow assassins slowly creeping over the ramparts of the aptly named Shadow Tower to retake the castle from the Weeper. 

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2 hours ago, Lyin' Ned said:

Well, he is quite popular with the ladies (like his father...and his uncle, I guess).

As for the potential shadowbabies, I've been waiting for some ever since Mel said the shadows she'd give birth to at the Wall would be terrible. I expect no less than a veritable army of shadow assassins slowly creeping over the ramparts of the aptly named Shadow Tower to retake the castle from the Weeper. 

Nope, no doing the deed or bumping uglies or boinking for Mel and Jon.

Two things I look at when it comes to this priestess of Rhollr. One is when the Kindly Man tells Arya:

"Mummers change their faces with artifice," the kindly man was saying, "and sorcerers use glamors, weaving light and shadow and desire to make illusions that trick the eye. These arts you shall learn, but what we do here goes deeper. Wise men can see through artifice, and glamors dissolve before sharp eyes, but the face you are about to don will be as true and solid as that face you were born with. Keep your eyes closed." She felt his fingers brushing back her hair. "Stay still. This will feel queer. You may be dizzy, but you must not move."

When Mel tried to trick Jon, he thought he saw Ygritte but Mel’s glamor/illusion didn’t work. Jon was able to see through it. When Mel reveals Mance to Jon he says: "What sorcery is this?""Call it what you will. Glamor, seeming, illusion. R'hllor is Lord of Light, Jon Snow, and it is given to his servants to weave with it, as others weave with thread."

The second thing I keep in mind is that Mel is running low on supplies:

Her sleeves were full of hidden pockets, and she checked them carefully as she did every morning to make certain all her powders were in place. Powders to turn fire green or blue or silver, powders to make a flame roar and hiss and leap up higher than a man is tall, powders to make smoke. A smoke for truth, a smoke for lust, a smoke for fear, and the thick black smoke that could kill a man outright. The red priestess armed herself with a pinch of each of them.

The carved chest that she had brought across the narrow sea was more than three-quarters empty now. And while Melisandre had the knowledge to make more powders, she lacked many rare ingredients. My spells should suffice.

It seems to me Mel fits the description the Kindly Man gave Arya when he referred to sorcerers. Mel herself says: Such shadows as I bring forth here will be terrible, and no creature of the dark will stand before them. With such sorceries at her command, she should soon have no more need of the feeble tricks of alchemists and pyromancers.

Mel believes she is more powerful at the Wall, She was stronger at the Wall, stronger even than in Asshai. Her every word and gesture was more potent, and she could do things that she had never done before. I think Mel is delusional. She is a follower of her God whose nemesis is The Great Other.

I’ll go a step further. I don’t think Mel has the power to resurrect Jon. Most importantly because I don’t think Jon needs resurrection, caveat, I think he is merely wounded.

Will Jon be changed when he recovers from his wounds? Yes, betrayal will do dat to ya and near death experience gives a person a whole different outlook. Jon will in my opinion become more realistic, harder, harsher and less willing to accept the status quo. I surely don’t see him becoming a depressed namby pamby.

So, nope, I dun’t tink Jon & Mel will do the wild thang.

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I keep hoping for a colder, Northen Jon. You hear of the Stark Kings of Winter. followers of the old gods. Ned wasnt like this, he was much nicer. The Quiet Wolf. I suspect that for a Stark, Ned was kind of wimpy, again by Stark standards. Not implying Jon should be a King at all. I want him at Castle Black, thats his story, at the wall. The realm needs a LC with the attitude of the Kings of Winter. Winter is Coming and thereisna reason why the Starks had thousands of years of succesful reigns including horrible Northen winters.

 

as for the topic if the forum, i dont think he will hookup with Mel. Cold or evil, he wont forsake his gods, second he already wants a woman, and that is Val.

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Jon will not 'hook up' with a woman that countenanced burning a child alive in order to win a battle.  Later in the story, he may have need of Mel and her powers, but I just do not see Jon falling prey to her wiles. I do not see Jon as a perfect leader but he has showed us, pretty reliably, a decent core.  I would bet on that. 

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On ‎27‎/‎07‎/‎2016 at 4:16 PM, Jon's Queen Consort said:

I don't think that he will fight during the Dance 2.0.

Dany probably won't land until at least the end of WoW, and Jon's arc could change a lot in that time. His personality will probably change dramatically post-resurrection and he will probably decide that he has fulfilled his Night's Watch vows. There is definitely still time for an R+L=J reveal. However even if he is not aware that he is a Targaryen, he may still come into conflict with her by trying to fight for the North. This does mean that he will likely not be involved at the beginning of the conflict, but could interevene later, at some point in DoS.

(Sorry that this is slightly off topic)

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10 minutes ago, The Young_Lion said:

Dany probably won't land until at least the end of WoW, and Jon's arc could change a lot in that time. His personality will probably change dramatically post-resurrection and he will probably decide that he has fulfilled his Night's Watch vows. There is definitely still time for an R+L=J reveal. However even if he is not aware that he is a Targaryen, he may still come into conflict with her by trying to fight for the North. This does mean that he will likely not be involved at the beginning of the conflict, but could interevene later, at some point in DoS.

(Sorry that this is slightly off topic)

What I meant was that FAegon will fight Dany at Dance 2.0. I don't believe that the Targs will ever be Jon's family so he will not care about them.

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