Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

nategator

Did Euron visit Gogossos?

Recommended Posts

Hey guys!  I was curious to hear your thoughts on a min-theory I advanced in an essay series, namely that Euron got his Valyrian loot from Gogossos.  To summarize, many readers have speculated that Euron is the mysterious corsair who tried to buy Unsullied in Antaspor right before Dany "acquired" them all and the Corsair King that pops in and out of the books.  We do know that Euron was engaged for piracy 3 years prior to the kingsmoot from Asha.  He reportedly sailed from the Iron Islands to Asshai and back.  The pirate capital along that route is the Basilisk Isles.  We also hear of a mysterious Corsair King arising in the Basilisk Isles that raided the Tall Trees Town.  Victarion briefly mentions that Euron also reportedly raided the Tall Trees Town.  So, there seems to be some textual support for the idea that Euron either visited or even ruled (as much as a pirate king can rule anything) the Basilisk Isles.  There are some other parallels between Euron and the corsairs of the Basilisk Isles, including binding people to prows being awfully similar to the corsairs attaching body pieces to their ships and the general practice of enslaving.  

Now, here's where it gets really interesting.  In the Basilisk Isles is a ruined city called Gogossos.  Gogossos was a Valyrian penal colony where they reportedly engaged in all kinds of messed up research like devising more effective torture methods and mating slave women with beasts.  After the Doom, Gogossos thrived and became a prosperous city (it was nicknamed the Tenth Free City) where its citizens engaged in slavery and sorcery.  Then, a Red Death outbreak occurred with 9/10 people dying, which spread to the other Basilisk Isles leading to the entirety of the Isles being abandoned for 100 years.  After that, the Basilisk Isles were taken over by the pirates who were periodically wiped out by naval expeditions from the Essos cities, only for the pirates to reemerge once the engagement was complete.  However, during this pirate rule, no mention of any pirates basing their operations in Gogossos can be found, so it wouldn't be terribly surprising if the location was shunned because of where the Red Death outbreak occurred.  

This seems to be a perfect location for where Euron might have gotten his Valyrian loot, if we should side with the Reader's doubts.  It was a former Valyrian city that survived the doom and was rich until it's own mini-doom.  The histories also provide a rationale for why it had not already been cleared out by would-be adventures prior to Euron.  The local pirates would both shun the ruins and enslave adventures from abroad trying to mount an expedition.  

And wouldn't you know it?  In the maps section of aDwD for the Valyria section, it shows the Basilisk Isles and labels Gogossos, when many of the Valyrian ruin sites are left unnamed.  

As to why Euron would want to instead claim he visited Valyria and braved the Smoking Seas, his motives were probably because of wanting to self-aggrandize and wave away his piratical backstory.  Being the first human being to have survived sailing the Smoking Seas is a massive accomplishment.  Conversely, getting access because to a Valyrian ruin of ill repute because Euron was a corsair or Corsair King would be looked down upon by the Ironborn.  While the Ironborn share some similarities with the corsairs, the Ironborn probably see themselves as superior as they claim a lasting cultural tradition, generally do not enslave (both the Reader and Victarion express dislike over the practice of becoming slavers), and generally take an honorable view of combat rather the more barbaric practices of the corsairs of Basilisk Isles.  Indeed, when Victarion thinks of one of his three groups taking the southern route to Essos through the Basilisk Isles, he imagines the Ironborn acquiring supplies by paying "the Iron price" (i.e. conquest) rather than the gold price (trade).  Rather than being a point of pride, Euron having sailed with the filthy corsairs would have probably been looked down upon and reminded everyone why Balon exiled Euron in the first place.  A man must have a code.

So guys, what do you think?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Prince of the North said:

This is pretty good!  Of course, Euron could both be this mysterious Corsair King and have sailed to Valyria as well.  But, either way, I think there very well could be something to this:thumbsup:

Corsair King does sound a lot like Euron. Don't know about Valyrians just abandoning their valuable armor and weapons willy-nilly in the random colonies. I rather suspect that Euron got his Valyrian stuff from raiding either Warlocks in Qarth or from Asshai, who do have a lot of magic and over hundreds of years mounted hundreds of expeditions to try to loot remnants of Valyria. 

I just can't get myself to believe that Euron managed to actually get to Valyria and not only survive but get some valuables from there, to me Euron sounds like a huge blowhard who makes stories up as he goes along, got some basic magical training especially pertaining to blood sacrifices and is going all for it. The rest is just a distraction and both Aeron and Victarian are both kind of stupid, naive and are a bit mental. It seems that all Greyjoy brothers of that generation have some mental issues. Asha seems more or less normal and her captains are basically normal, but Greyjoy men are just weird.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I don't have strong feelings about it either way.  I just think Euron could be the Corsair King who recently rose in the Basilisk Isles.  Also, we don't even know exactly how much area the Smoking Sea actually covers.  Looking at a map and reading its description in the World book, it appears that the Smoking Sea may not completely surround the island that Valyria sits on.  So...perhaps one could reach it from the sea or even overland from the south.  We just don't know:dunno: 

It could just as easily be as you and the OP say: Euron could have gotten his Valyrian steel armor, etc. elsewhere and is lying about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Masha said:

Corsair King does sound a lot like Euron. Don't know about Valyrians just abandoning their valuable armor and weapons willy-nilly in the random colonies. I rather suspect that Euron got his Valyrian stuff from raiding either Warlocks in Qarth or from Asshai, who do have a lot of magic and over hundreds of years mounted hundreds of expeditions to try to loot remnants of Valyria. 

I just can't get myself to believe that Euron managed to actually get to Valyria and not only survive but get some valuables from there, to me Euron sounds like a huge blowhard who makes stories up as he goes along, got some basic magical training especially pertaining to blood sacrifices and is going all for it. The rest is just a distraction and both Aeron and Victarian are both kind of stupid, naive and are a bit mental. It seems that all Greyjoy brothers of that generation have some mental issues. Asha seems more or less normal and her captains are basically normal, but Greyjoy men are just weird.

We don't know a ton about the "Corsair King" other than he arose in the Basilisk Isles (if we're treating that subject separately from the corsair who tried to buy Unsullied) but one thing we do know is that he raided Tall Trees Town.  Victarion mentions that Euron also claimed to raid Tall Trees Town.  It's one of those GRRM details that probably isn't just pure coincidence, as the Cinnamon Wind's home port happens to be Tall Trees Town -- so it's likely either (a) a hint GRRM provided for obsessive-level readers and/or (b) a red herring.  

While it is possible that Euron just jacked someone else who was transporting the Valyrian loot, it's unlikely.  Aeron's impression is that suit of Valyrian armor is the equivalent of the Hope Diamond as it was worth a "kingdom" prior to the Doom.  Considering the lengths Tywin went to get a Valyrian steel blade, if a Valyrian suit was known to exist it likely would have been locked away and heavily guarded by a major ruler who would have named and exploited it for propaganda value.  It's got to be a present-day discovery.  Since we know that no one has successfully raided the ruins of Valyria and lived to boast about the tale, which would have been a legendary accomplishment, odds are Euron was bullshitting and he got the suit from somewhere else.  Gogossos, in my opinion, seems like the most likely candidate. It's a Valyrian colony (so accessible to present day characters unlike everything we know of the main Valyrian Freehold) and they were very rich right before their mini-doom.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just foreshadowing for what Euron will do to/cause Westeros, not a direct influence on the main series.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why don't people believe the Author/Euron when he says he's sailed to Valyria and back?

He's got a magical Dragon Horn, a magic suit of Valyrian steel armour and generally doesn't seem like a guy to be taken lightly...

GRRM isn't really trying to have a million mysteries and plot twist...2 BOOKS left...Euron has been to Valyria and found some Legendary Loot on his travels...He's out to become the big bad just in time for the grand finale, sitting his ass on the Iron Throne and destroying the 7 Kingdoms in his ascension...

Pretty cut and dry, he could be the Corsair King or NOT...

He has had to at least sniffed Valyrian soil to have discovered a Horn and Suit of Armor, he's going to have a Sword as Well, mark it down...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, RockyRagnarok said:

Why don't people believe the Author/Euron when he says he's sailed to Valyria and back?

He's got a magical Dragon Horn, a magic suit of Valyrian steel armour and generally doesn't seem like a guy to be taken lightly...

GRRM isn't really trying to have a million mysteries and plot twist...2 BOOKS left...Euron has been to Valyria and found some Legendary Loot on his travels...He's out to become the big bad just in time for the grand finale, sitting his ass on the Iron Throne and destroying the 7 Kingdoms in his ascension...

Pretty cut and dry, he could be the Corsair King or NOT...

He has had to at least sniffed Valyrian soil to have discovered a Horn and Suit of Armor, he's going to have a Sword as Well, mark it down...

Because it's counter to too many claims to the contrary while the OP has posted a nice explanation that is entirely plausible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Whitering said:

Because it's counter to too many claims to the contrary while the OP has posted a nice explanation that is entirely plausible.

But what would it bring to the story? Why would it be important that he went there over say the smoking sea?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Dorian Martell said:

But what would it bring to the story? Why would it be important that he went there over say the smoking sea?

What if it was that Euron knows Mel or is working with her in some way? They were both apparently in or around Asshai at the same time. Then Mel shows up in Westeros which, according to GRRM, was at her own discretion. This would then allow these two to be tied together.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Dorian Martell said:

But what would it bring to the story? Why would it be important that he went there over say the smoking sea?

Because one is a grandiose claim that makes him out to be a liar, which is more likely than him being super human and the first explorer to venture into the fire filled lands of Valyria.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/2/2016 at 0:31 PM, Dorian Martell said:

But what would it bring to the story? Why would it be important that he went there over say the smoking sea?

This is where I start to get into tinfoil territory, but the reason why Gogossos is interesting is because it's also the former Valyrian site of human-hybrid magic research.  As one person put it, Gogossos is the Valyrian equivalent of Area 51 meets Auschwitz.  Euron getting his hands on this type of magic is...troubling.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/3/2016 at 10:02 AM, Whitering said:

Because one is a grandiose claim that makes him out to be a liar, which is more likely than him being super human and the first explorer to venture into the fire filled lands of Valyria.

Have you read the Aeron chapter?

On 8/3/2016 at 2:50 PM, nategator said:

This is where I start to get into tinfoil territory, but the reason why Gogossos is interesting is because it's also the former Valyrian site of human-hybrid magic research.  As one person put it, Gogossos is the Valyrian equivalent of Area 51 meets Auschwitz.  Euron getting his hands on this type of magic is...troubling.   

This I could see. There seems to be a line in the Aeron chapter that kinda confirms his trip to the smoking sea 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/2/2016 at 1:00 PM, turncloaking said:

What if it was that Euron knows Mel or is working with her in some way? They were both apparently in or around Asshai at the same time. Then Mel shows up in Westeros which, according to GRRM, was at her own discretion. This would then allow these two to be tied together.

Since there is nothing in the books to even hint at this I would have to say no. Again, not to spoiler but there is info in the winds Aeron chapter that precludes him working with any priest of the red god  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/3/2016 at 5:01 AM, Dorian Martell said:

But what would it bring to the story? Why would it be important that he went there over say the smoking sea?

The fact that Euron has walked Valyria and lived is a very large part of his mystique. It is, in my opinion, one of the bigger reasons that the Ironborn follow him. If that is somehow outed as a lie, I believe it could be very detrimental to his cause. Remember, people don't like Euron; he cuts out the tongues of his men, as is generally creepy. But people think he's special; a one of a kind individual, able to go where other men cannot. If he turns out to just be a normal man...

2 hours ago, Dorian Martell said:

This I could see. There seems to be a line in the Aeron chapter that kinda confirms his trip to the smoking sea 

That only really confirms that he's been there in Aeron's eyes, though, right? Just because he thinks something, that hardly makes it true.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, cyberdirectorfreedom said:

The fact that Euron has walked Valyria and lived is a very large part of his mystique. It is, in my opinion, one of the bigger reasons that the Ironborn follow him. If that is somehow outed as a lie, I believe it could be very detrimental to his cause. Remember, people don't like Euron; he cuts out the tongues of his men, as is generally creepy. But people think he's special; a one of a kind individual, able to go where other men cannot. If he turns out to just be a normal man...

That only really confirms that he's been there in Aeron's eyes, though, right? Just because he thinks something, that hardly makes it true.

Spoiler

The location of where Euron got his magical armor matters less than the fact that he has magical armor. the object is proof of his claims, unless there is a reveal in one of the next books. Since there has been several mentions of Ruron visitingthe ruins of Valyria and nothing of the little island in the summer sea, it is safe to say at this time that the island theory holds no water. Interesting speculation but nothing to back it up. We have two books to go so there is always a possibility 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Dorian Martell said:
  Hide contents

The location of where Euron got his magical armor matters less than the fact that he has magical armor. the object is proof of his claims, unless there is a reveal in one of the next books. Since there has been several mentions of Ruron visitingthe ruins of Valyria and nothing of the little island in the summer sea, it is safe to say at this time that the island theory holds no water. Interesting speculation but nothing to back it up. We have two books to go so there is always a possibility 

 

Yeah, I agree with you, 100%. The fact that people believe he's been to Valyria is more important than actually having been there. As you say, it is pure speculation of where, if not in Valyria, Euron acquired his items. That said, I feel there's more textual evidence suggesting that Euron hasn't been to Valyria than that he has. It's Euron's word against hundreds of years of history. Everyone knows that nobody since the Doom has ever, ever, ever gone to Valyria and come out alive, ever ever. I certainly am skeptical, no matter what fancy new items Euron flaunts. It also seems to me that he's trying to push the idea that he's been to Valyria a little too hard, but if he really had been there, it's not unusual that he'd wish to brag.

So yeah, I don't think that it'll ever matter, truly, where Euron acquired all of his Valyrian goodies from. He says Valyria, and I strongly expect in the future, people will be denying his claims that he's been there. But if it can be proven, beyond any doubt, one way or the other, that could be important, but I don't see any way for Euron to prove it, aside from flaunting his new Valyrian wealth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i do believe he visited valayria because DOOM of valayria has probably nothing to do with magic or real doom it was just bad luck of valayrians so i do not believe in any real DOOM, its smoking because of obvious reasons and many people cant explain it and they make stories up and stuff like that... there could be a logical reason why ships disappear and maybe there is a hidden society of pirates or ppl living there and they dont want to be found  much like bravoosis but thos hiding in valayria use it for their advantage and kill them and take the loot...

so i do believe euron might have visited valayria and somehow managed to ally himself with ppl living there and came back...

also i do believe he visited more thn just valayria and ashai, i have nothing against believing that he visited Gogossos and found some many evil or good things there i mean if he survived Gogossos, i would have more respect for him, the man isnt just evil he is also immune to all sorts of diseases that can be found in that particular area...  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×