Dany+Tyrion=Love?

[Le Cygne]

19 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I was extremely surprised  when Dany said she didn't love Daario.

I don't think that happens in the books. In the books, she's very unhappy with a political marriage without love, and comes to realize this. On her wedding night to Hizdahr, she cried for Daario. And GRRM said he wanted to resolve ADWD answering, does she really want Daario? And she wanted him more than ever at the end, she called him "my love" and kept picturing him a dozen times. Then she pictured him sitting with her beside her dragon.

Also interesting they kept Daario alive, and he basically told her she wouldn't be happy: "You'll get that throne you want so badly, I'm sure of it. I hope it brings you happiness. I pity the lords of Westeros. They have no idea what's coming for them." Sansa wasn't happy in a political marriage without love, either, and hers was forced. She called the marriage to Tyrion a "mockery of a marriage" and was desperate to escape, thinking, "her torments would soon be ended."

I don't think status quo is what he's going for in this story, that after a zombie apocalypse, strong-minded women will just settle for being, as Daario put it, "fish bait." Maybe Daario dies in the books, and they are doing this to show she hasn't learned that yet, but I don't see Dany ever happy having sex with some guy she doesn't desire or love. After Drogo and Daario, I think she wants more, and won't settle for less. And I don't think Dany has to, that's the thing...

[Meera of Tarth]

On 29/7/2016 at 2:31 AM, Anton Martell said:

I am sorry if this topic has been approached in some way, I tried to search for such a topic but I have not found it yet. If it exists, my sincere apologies.

 

I would like to discuss the Tyrion/Dany scene in episode 11. Just after Dany tells Daario she wants him to stay in Meeren she comes back to Tyrion when we realize that as Daario suspected, it was Tyrion's idea. Then he says this (the quote might be slightly inexact):

 

The look on Peter Dinklage face at that time seemed sad, as if he loved her himself but knew it could not happen. I got a strange vibe where he was really in love and that maybe Daario's dismissal was both for political and personal reasons. It looked a bit like how Jorah would look at Daenerys sometimes.

If this is true, the implication for season 7 might be important, to see how Tyrion juggles with his feelings and duty.

 

Am I the only one who felt that? What do you guys think?

I didn't see  that, but I've rewatched the scene again, and his gaze at her could mean he likes her.....but I don't think it's the case.

[Meera of Tarth]

15 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

I don't think that happens in the books. In the books, she's very unhappy with a political marriage without love, and comes to realize this. On her wedding night to Hizdahr, she cried for Daario. And GRRM said he wanted to resolve ADWD answering, does she really want Daario? And she wanted him more than ever at the end, she called him "my love" and kept picturing him a dozen times. Then she pictured him sitting with her beside her dragon.

Also interesting they kept Daario alive, and he basically told her she wouldn't be happy: "You'll get that throne you want so badly, I'm sure of it. I hope it brings you happiness. I pity the lords of Westeros. They have no idea what's coming for them." Sansa wasn't happy in a political marriage without love, either, and hers was forced. She called the marriage to Tyrion a "mockery of a marriage" and was desperate to escape, thinking, "her torments would soon be ended."

I don't think status quo is what he's going for in this story, that after a zombie apocalypse, strong-minded women will just settle for being, as Daario put it, "fish bait." Maybe Daario dies in the books, and they are doing this to show she hasn't learned that yet, but I don't see Dany ever happy having sex with some guy she doesn't desire or love. After Drogo and Daario, I think she wants more, and won't settle for less. And I don't think Dany has to, that's the thing...

Yes, it's quite different from the books. Another thing they are playing differently is the triangle with Jorah. In the show I think there's some hope for those who would like her to be with him, because the way they have been portrayed since s1 is different from the books. And what you mention, about Daario being still alive in the show and telling her that "let's hope it will make you happy".....

I have a feeling that whathever will happen it won't end well, and maybe she will lose both of them in the show.

But maybe she will have to sacrifice for the throne in the books as well.....which in that case will be sad. 

Another feeling I had when watching the scene was that they might be "foreshadowing" a political marriage with Jon.

[Winds of Winter blow cold]

Not a romantic love per se but a deep & bidding respect for each other!

[A spoon of knife and fork]

 

On July 30, 2016 at 10:06 AM, Le Cygne said:

I don't think that happens in the books. In the books, she's very unhappy with a political marriage without love, and comes to realize this. On her wedding night to Hizdahr, she cried for Daario. And GRRM said he wanted to resolve ADWD answering, does she really want Daario? And she wanted him more than ever at the end, she called him "my love" and kept picturing him a dozen times. Then she pictured him sitting with her beside her dragon.

Dany doesn't love Daario in the books, either.  Or no more than any teenage infatuation.  Quite clearly, and consistently, she duscards his needs and desires in favor of her own needs and the needs of her people.

love is to consider the other persons needs paramount or at least of high importance.  To trust the other person.  Dany doesn't trust Daario in the books (much less than the series).  She certainly never puts his needs first.  

On July 30, 2016 at 10:06 AM, Le Cygne said:

Also interesting they kept Daario alive, and he basically told her she wouldn't be happy: "You'll get that throne you want so badly, I'm sure of it. I hope it brings you happiness. I pity the lords of Westeros. They have no idea what's coming for them."

Dany would never be happy if she chose to sacrifice her duty in favor of superficial happiness / "romance".  She would hate herself if she made such a bargain.  

 

[Wilnova]

Remember that Tyrion/Arya/Jon love triangle in the original outline? I think it has become Tyrion/Dany/Jon in the current version after GRRM possibly decided that Arya's age was an issue and she was too young without the 5 yr gap.

It did look like Tyrion was feeling some rather strong emotions in his scene with Dany and there were some looks he shot at her which made me think that there's something going on there. It could be that he falls for her and then Dany and Jon meet and Bam! They fall for each other and we have Jon and Tyrion possibly at odds with each other.

[Meera of Tarth]

23 minutes ago, Wilnova said:

Remember that Tyrion/Arya/Jon love triangle in the original outline? I think it has become Tyrion/Dany/Jon in the current version after GRRM possibly decided that Arya's age was an issue and she was too young without the 5 yr gap.

It did look like Tyrion was feeling some rather strong emotions in his scene with Dany and there were some looks he shot at her which made me think that there's something going on there. It could be that he falls for her and then Dany and Jon meet and Bam! They fall for each other and we have Jon and Tyrion possibly at odds with each other.

But this is about the show....the gap it's not as important. Anyway, even a love triangle (or something romantic) could already happen with Arya in the books since she is 11 (probably turning to 12 in the next book, and there's one more) and Dany was 13 in the first book. But considering the outline may tell nothing.....or that it might tell something  (that would happen in the books if there is that switch to Dany and they could be adapting this) then:

I highly doubt Dany's love interests are going to grow exponencially.....there's Daario and Dany, Jorah loves her, Victarion and Euron want her (Euron in the show), Quentyn, probably political marriage in the show with Jon....and now Tyrion? In my opinion they are too many for a single woman...

[A spoon of knife and fork]

5 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

But this is about the show....the gap it's not as important. Anyway, even a love triangle (or something romantic) could already happen with Arya in the books since she is 11 (probably turning to 12 in the next book, and there's one more) and Dany was 13 in the first book.

I really don't think George is going to write 30 year old Tyrion "falling for" 13 year old Arya Stark.  

I think it's reasonable to see Dany (or someone like Margaery) differently - they have been married and are sexually experienced and fully mature women.   Arya is still a child and would be seen as such especially by a fully grown man like Tyrion.  Sansa is somewhere in the middle.  

Thats all to say that while Jon + Arya is still at least conceivable in the books I don't think the Same can be said about Arya and Tyrion. 

5 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

But considering the outline may tell nothing.....or that it might tell something  (that would happen in the books if there is that switch to Dany and they could be adapting this) then:

I highly doubt Dany's love interests are going to grow exponencially.....there's Daario and Dany, Jorah loves her, Victarion and Euron want her (Euron in the show), Quentin, probably political marriage in the show with Jon....and now Tyrion? In my opinion they are too many for a single woman...

I mean, if you're the queen of everything people are going to want to marry (read: use) you.  I suspect many will court Jon as well now that he owns half the continent.

Also Danys love interests are currently all gone, except maybe Yara.  Euron will be her enemy, Daario is in Mereen, Jorah And Dany have both accepted their relationship will be platonic love if they ever meet again (but by sending him off she signaled that the safety of her people is more important than he is).  The purpose of this is so that Dany can consider her future freely.  She may choose to marry no one as he says.  But as many matches will be teased as there are suitable men in Westeros.

[Wilnova]

20 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

But this is about the show....the gap it's not as important.

If GRRM changed some aspects of his story because of the lack of the gap, then it will be reflected on the show. We will more or less get the same endings for the 5 main characters on the show - which means if there is a Tyrion/Dany/Jon love triangle in the books, then there will be one on the show.

Besides Dany has dumped Daario who she really did not love and there is strong foreshadowing in the books for Dany/Jon (Blue rose on the wall with the sweet smell) and strong setup on the show - Tyrion saying that Daario won't be the last to love her (The way he looks at her when he says this makes me think that maybe he is hinting at himself too). On the show there is really no one else for her to love.

[The Fattest Leech]

I thought it was pretty clear that the show is giving us the Danaerys-Yara romance next season. 

Yara with her "I'm up for anything" with a gaze and then Dany holding her gaze and smiling back and moving her lips.

And Dany randomly deciding she doesn't live Daario, a strong man that helped her conquer cities and gave her flowers, anyway, and Dany randomly deciding she doesn't love Daario cemented that idea. 

[Meera of Tarth]

6 minutes ago, A spoon of knife and fork said:

I really don't think George is going to write 30 year old Tyrion "falling for" 13 year old Arya Stark.  

I think it's reasonable to see Dany (or someone like Margaery) differently - they have been married and are sexually experienced and fully mature women.   Arya is still a child and would be seen as such especially by a fully grown man like Tyrion.  Sansa is somewhere in the middle.  

Thats all to say that while Jon + Arya is still at least conceivable in the books I don't think the Same can be said about Arya and Tyrion. 

Regarding the outline and the books....I wasn't having Tyrion on my mind for the same possible triangle or romance, but anyway we can't forget that other pairings with similar age gap differences have appeared (Dany and Drogo for instance). As for Sansa, I don't think she is somewhere in the middle. She is just two years older both in the show and in the books. So, in the middle, but similar to Arya.

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I mean, if you're the queen of everything people are going to want to marry (read: use) you.  I suspect many will court Jon as well now that he owns half the continent.

 

That's very reasonable. I thought that another love interest would probably be too much, but it's ok when  you remember that she has the power and wants to be the Queen. Maybe she'll have more. So...yep, possible. Although I didn't see Tyrion as that when first watched it. We'll have to see S7, possible? yep.

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Also Danys love interests are currently all gone, except maybe Yara.  Euron will be her enemy, Daario is in Mereen, ......  The purpose of this is so that Dany can consider her future freely.  She may choose to marry no one as he says.  But as many matches will be teased as there are suitable men in Westeros.

Well....she still has Daario: she said she didn't love him, but he is not dead, so maybe something could happen in the future, although as a lover.

Euron could still force her to marry her (something I would despise but that can happen); there's still Jon as a possible potential candidate.....

Yara is not a possible love interest. That definitely is not happening in the books, because she is straight so it won't be adapted. As for the show, I don't think they will invent that, considering there's only 7+(6->8) episodes left and it's not endgame. Casual love affair? Could happen although they haven't show Dany as bisexual in the show before and that would be really strange and would only happen if they have gone out of ideas (there's a lot of story to tell and many other important things have been abandoned).I could see that happening, but extremely unlikely.

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Jorah And Dany have both accepted their relationship will be platonic love if they ever meet again (but by sending him off she signaled that the safety of her people is more important than he is)

That hasn't happened in the show. Dany has not accepted that. We don't know what ShowDany is thinking or feeling. The best example is what she says to Tyrion about Daario. Jorah might have accepted this because he hasn't seen any sign, but we don't know about Dany yet.

[Le Cygne]

1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I thought it was pretty clear that the show is giving us the Danaerys-Yara romance next season. 

Yara with her "I'm up for anything" with a gaze and then Dany holding her gaze and smiling back and moving her lips.

And Dany randomly deciding she doesn't live Daario, a strong man that helped her conquer cities and gave her flowers, anyway, and Dany randomly deciding she doesn't love Daario cemented that idea. 

Perfect.

[dsug]

I think Daario is just a fuckbuddy. In the show, he stays that way and everyone knows it. In the books I think, Dany starts to fall for him and it becomes increasingly obvious to everyone around them. 

[A spoon of knife and fork]

8 hours ago, dsug said:

I think Daario is just a fuckbuddy. In the show, he stays that way and everyone knows it. In the books I think, Dany starts to fall for him and it becomes increasingly obvious to everyone around them. 

I don't know, I think her feelings for him get weaker over time - or that is to say she spends less time thinking about him and more about what she should be doing as we go through ADWD.  Before they hook up for the first time she thinks about him seemingly constantly.  She keeps sending him away on random missions so she doesn't have to see him and get distracted because she's horny as hell.  

After they have sex, she primarily uses him for that alone, especially when she's frustrated about politics.  And when he tries to give her advice or talk to her about anything else she thinks he's a monster and kicks him out of her bed, tells him to go away and go do something useful.  After she marries Hizdar she barely sees Daario at all (by design) or thinks of him very much.  The one exception is that she thinks he would be there beside her eating the horse Drogon killed.  But prior to that she has a vision of Jorah and Viserys but not of him, so I don't think this is any evidence of "tru wuv" exclusive to Daario.

To me, the relationship reads as one where the sex is awesome, but she knows he's wrong for her in the long haul and the relationship is not going to go anywhere.  But she doesn't want to end it since the sex is great.  So she ends up acting like a crazy person, constantly rejecting and later pulling him back in.  I'm sure it's quite frustrating for Daario TBH, because none of that is his fault (he'd probably like just be her consort, like he expressed in the show).  This is shown a few times (once when he kisses her in court, once when he made a scene about the Hizdar marriage).  

[A spoon of knife and fork]

22 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Regarding the outline and the books....I wasn't having Tyrion on my mind for the same possible triangle or romance, but anyway we can't forget that other pairings with similar age gap differences have appeared (Dany and Drogo for instance). As for Sansa, I don't think she is somewhere in the middle. She is just two years older both in the show and in the books. So, in the middle, but similar to Arya.

I think they are literally 2 years apart each in the books (Arya = 9, Sansa = 11, Dany = 13).   In show, I am not sure.  Maybe Dany is supposed to be older?  I think we are given Sansa's age as 13 in Episode 1?  I would think Dany to be 15 or 16 and Arya to be 11 isn't unreasonable (even though Sophie and Maisie were both 14 or 15 and Emelia was 18 or 19 in S1). 

Anyway when I say Sansa is in the middle between Arya and Dany/Margaery, I meant in terms of sexual and romantic experience in the show.  Sansa has been married twice and has had sex...  Unfortunately unlike Dany she got forced into a marriage with a psychopath instead of a relatively decent person.   Dany has been pregnant and taken lovers of her own choosing so demonstrated more sexual agency than Sansa, not to mention has been a leader for a long time whereas Sansa has just started down that path in the show.  Meanwhile Arya has none of that experience.  Men would be much more likely to see Sansa as an adult than Arya, and more likely to see Dany as an adult than Sansa.  

All this to say, Tyrion x Arya like in the original plot seems... completely beyond the realm of possibility.  

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Well....she still has Daario: she said she didn't love him, but he is not dead, so maybe something could happen in the future, although as a lover.

Euron could still force her to marry her (something I would despise but that can happen);

This would require some really silly things to occur - Dany is one of the most protected people in the world right now.  I suppose he could do it if he whips out a dragon horn or some other nonsense.  Still I doubt it.  Euron will probably court another queen.  

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there's still Jon as a possible potential candidate.....

I think Jon and Dany will meet eventually but not this season.  Dany will encounter people in the South first.  

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Yara is not a possible love interest. That definitely is not happening in the books, because she is straight so it won't be adapted. As for the show, I don't think they will invent that, considering there's only 7+(6->8) episodes left and it's not endgame. Casual love affair? Could happen although they haven't show Dany as bisexual in the show before and that would be really strange and would only happen if they have gone out of ideas (there's a lot of story to tell and many other important things have been abandoned).I could see that happening, but extremely unlikely.

Yeah all I meant was a fling, like Dany's lesbian experiences in the book.  Or just more flirting which was a lot of fun to watch in ep. 9. 

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That hasn't happened in the show. Dany has not accepted that. We don't know what ShowDany is thinking or feeling. The best example is what she says to Tyrion about Daario. Jorah might have accepted this because he hasn't seen any sign, but we don't know about Dany yet.

On the contrary, I think it's quite clear what Dany thinks and feels about Jorah.  It's been very consistent throughout the years.  Emelia in an interview describes when she banished Jorah for betraying her that "this is the biggest heartbreak of her life".  Dany loves Jorah.  He's been with her through thick and thin and she is deeply grateful for his loyalty, friendship, and love.  She wanted to give him back his home, to give him a reason to continue on.  That's why it hurt her so much that it all started as a lie.  

Shippers might take this to mean "oh she wants him after all" but I there's no evidence for that.  Love is so much bigger than wanting to have sex with someone.  Exposition between Daario and Jorah was meant to demonstrate to us that Dany and Jorah have a mutual understanding between them that is much deeper than Daario and Dany have (despite the fact that no sex is involved). The point is it doesn't have to involve physical love to be a real loving relationship (even if Jorah would like that too).  Parting scene between Dany and Jorah when she asks him to leave reiterates the same feelings she had during the banishment scene - though instead of her trying to bury those feelings because she has to appear stern in that situation, she expresses them - saying that she needs him by her side.  It's similar to the book scene where she talks about wanting to hug vision-Jorah.  

[Meera of Tarth]

1 hour ago, A spoon of knife and fork said:

I think they are literally 2 years apart each in the books (Arya = 9, Sansa = 11, Dany = 13).   In show, I am not sure.  Maybe Dany is supposed to be older?  I think we are given Sansa's age as 13 in Episode 1?  I would think Dany to be 15 or 16 and Arya to be 11 isn't unreasonable (even though Sophie and Maisie were both 14 or 15 and Emelia was 18 or 19 in S1). 

Anyway when I say Sansa is in the middle between Arya and Dany/Margaery, I meant in terms of sexual and romantic experience in the show.  Sansa has been married twice and has had sex...  Unfortunately unlike Dany she got forced into a marriage with a psychopath instead of a relatively decent person.   Dany has been pregnant and taken lovers of her own choosing so demonstrated more sexual agency than Sansa, not to mention has been a leader for a long time whereas Sansa has just started down that path in the show.  Meanwhile Arya has none of that experience.  Men would be much more likely to see Sansa as an adult than Arya, and more likely to see Dany as an adult than Sansa.  

All this to say, Tyrion x Arya like in the original plot seems... completely beyond the realm of possibility.  

.  

They are two years apart both in the books and in the show. In the show Sansa is 13 in episode 1 while Arya is 11. I'm not sure how old is Dany in the show in S1 but not less than 15 or 16.

Sansa's romantic or sexual experience in the show has been kissing Joffrey, a crush on Loras, two unwanted kisses with Litlefinger and, unfortunately, as you mention, that horrible rape scene.  Then, there is a very likely slow process of falling in love with Sandor (more evident in the books, due to her POV) and the marriage with Tyrion, but they never consummated.

Arya, on the contrary, has only experienced a possible crush on Gendry, (this, at the most, I'm not sure). But we can't forget that guys from Braavos have complimented her (not in a polite way but in a sexual one in S5).

My point is that Sansa was younger than Arya when she had those experiences, and it happened. So, I guess that kids grow and if Sansa married at 14, Arya could also be involved in a political marriage or whathever since now she is older than 14.

Even Tommen was not seen as an adult but he grew up very quickly....

But I agree than Tyrion and Arya is not going to happen anywhere. Dany and Tyrion? Maybe, but not likely.

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On the contrary, I think it's quite clear what Dany thinks and feels about Jorah.  It's been very consistent throughout the years.  Emelia in an interview describes when she banished Jorah for betraying her that "this is the biggest heartbreak of her life".  Dany loves Jorah.  He's been with her through thick and thin and she is deeply grateful for his loyalty, friendship, and love.  She wanted to give him back his home, to give him a reason to continue on.  That's why it hurt her so much that it all started as a lie.  

 

I'm not so sure than Dany loves Jorah romantically as he does yet ( I'd want it to happen), although the last three seasons seemed to me that they were developing something in her, despite of the fact that she also wanted Daario. 

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Shippers might take this to mean "oh she wants him after all" but I there's no evidence for that.  Love is so much bigger than wanting to have sex with someone.  Exposition between Daario and Jorah was meant to demonstrate to us that Dany and Jorah have a mutual understanding between them that is much deeper than Daario and Dany have (despite the fact that no sex is involved). The point is it doesn't have to involve physical love to be a real loving relationship (even if Jorah would like that too).  

That's interesting. She can love him romantically but only in a platonic way? Well, to me that could happen only in 4 contexts:

a) Dany is asexual. But she is not, since she loved to have sex with Daario

b)Dany understands that she will never have the chance to marry Jorah, because of her status of Queen, maybe.

c) Dany knows that Jorah has a disease and she doesn't know if he will find a cure, so if they had sex she would have greyscale too.

d)Dany is not fully in love with Jorah yet.

To me could be a combination of b and d, being c also a part of it, but she wants him to return, so she firmly believes in the chance of him being without greyscale again.

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Parting scene between Dany and Jorah when she asks him to leave reiterates the same feelings she had during the banishment scene - though instead of her trying to bury those feelings because she has to appear stern in that situation, she expresses them - saying that she needs him by her side.  It's similar to the book scene where she talks about wanting to hug vision-Jorah.

And more d than b, because I think she is developing her feelings towards him, but she doesn't understand or wants to acknowledge them.

In that scene to me it was more of....that she uncounsciously couldn't stand losing Jorah, but I'm not sure of her feelings.

The other possibility of course is that he doesn't love him romantically apart from being a friend and counselour, but still loves him so much.

1 hour ago, A spoon of knife and fork said:

 

This would require some really silly things to occur - Dany is one of the most protected people in the world right now.  I suppose he could do it if he whips out a dragon horn or some other nonsense.  Still I doubt it.  Euron will probably court another queen.  

I think Jon and Dany will meet eventually but not this season.  Dany will encounter people in the South first.  

 

Yeah all I meant was a fling, like Dany's lesbian experiences in the book.  Or just more flirting which was a lot of fun to watch in ep. 9.

LOL, ok! I thought you meant as a marriage or something serious....

[A spoon of knife and fork]

22 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

They are two years apart both in the books and in the show. In the show Sansa is 13 in episode 1 while Arya is 11. I'm not sure how old is Dany in the show in S1 but not less than 15 or 16.

Dany started at 15 or 16 I think so she'd now be ~20 (since show years approximate RL years in the show).  Arya started at 11 in the show and she'd now be 16 or something I suppose.  

22 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

My point is that Sansa was younger than Arya when she had those experiences, and it happened. So, I guess that kids grow and if Sansa married at 14, Arya could also be involved in a political marriage or whathever since now she is older than 14.

Yes, that's all I'm really saying too and it was in the context of Tyrion x Arya from the outline.  Sansa is about 2 years behind Dany in this regard, Arya is about 2 years behind Sansa.  2 years ago when they were married, Tyrion still considered Sansa a child (she would have been 16).  Now, he might not.  He would still consider Arya a child though.

22 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Even Tommen was not seen as an adult but he grew up very quickly....

But I agree than Tyrion and Arya is not going to happen anywhere. Dany and Tyrion? Maybe, but not likely.

I'm not so sure than Dany loves Jorah romantically as he does yet ( I'd want it to happen), although the last three seasons seemed to me that they were developing something in her, despite of the fact that she also wanted Daario. 

That's interesting. She can love him romantically but only in a platonic way? Well, to me that could happen only in 4 contexts:

It's platonic from her side - it's like a very strong familial love, as one would have for a brother, father, uncle.  She explicitly doesn't want to have sex with him.  But all the other aspects of their relationship she feels more strongly about him than anyone else.  She trusts him more completely.  She relies on him more completely.  She wants him with at her side more than she wants anyone else at her side.  

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a) Dany is asexual. But she is not, since she loved to have sex with Daario

b)Dany understands that she will never have the chance to marry Jorah, because of her status of Queen, maybe.

c) Dany knows that Jorah has a disease and she doesn't know if he will find a cure, so if they had sex she would have greyscale too.

d)Dany is not fully in love with Jorah yet.

My point is you can be "fully in love" with someone and not want to have sex with them.  There are many kinds of love. 

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To me could be a combination of b and d, being c also a part of it, but she wants him to return, so she firmly believes in the chance of him being without greyscale again.

And more d than b, because I think she is developing her feelings towards him, but she doesn't understand or wants to acknowledge them.

I've seen this argument used a lot, but I don't like it because it i'ts a bit paternalistic.  It implies that Dany is some child who doesn't know what "real love" is but Jorah does because he's so much wiser and older or whatever.  

Dany knows what she wants, which is exactly what she tells Jorah in ep 7.  She wants Jorah to be at her side as her most trusted friend and adviser.  To be there when she is crowned, to be restored to his home of Westeros.  She is conflicted because that reality is in conflict with other realities.  First, he has sexual/romantic feelings for her that he'd like to act on.  She worries, will it hurt him to be near her without that being reciprocated?  Second, he betrayed her in a way that is almost unforgivable from her perspective (eventually she forgave him because their connection is so deep).  Finally, he has greyscale and it's physically dangerous for him to be near her or her people.  

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In that scene to me it was more of....that she uncounsciously couldn't stand losing Jorah, but I'm not sure of her feelings.

She is quite conscious that she can't stand to lose him.  But she's aware he's dangerous so he has to let him go. 

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The other possibility of course is that he doesn't love him romantically apart from being a friend and counselour, but still loves him so much.

Yes this is basically waht I mean. 

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LOL, ok! I thought you meant as a marriage or something serious....

haha no, I don't think that Westeros is quite that progressive yet, and anyway Yara will want to go to the II eventually. 

[Meera of Tarth]

16 minutes ago, A spoon of knife and fork said:

It's platonic from her side - it's like a very strong familial love, as one would have for a brother, father, uncle.  She explicitly doesn't want to have sex with him.  But all the other aspects of their relationship she feels more strongly about him than anyone else.  She trusts him more completely.  She relies on him more completely.  She wants him with at her side more than she wants anyone else at her side.  

My point is you can be "fully in love" with someone and not want to have sex with them.  There are many kinds of love. conscious that she can't stand to lose him.  But she's aware he's dangerous so he has to let him go. 

 

Well, for me platonic means romantic, but without sex. That is what I was referring to:  and since Dany is a sexual being, the only reasons I found to explain her behaviour were the ones I mentioned. Jorah has romantic: sexual feelings for her, he is completely in love.

yes, we can agree that Dany cares a lot about Jorah, so "she is in love", although in my case I don't know how deep is this love or what it means exactly.

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I've seen this argument used a lot, but I don't like it because it i'ts a bit paternalistic.  It implies that Dany is some child who doesn't know what "real love" is but Jorah does because he's so much wiser and older or whatever.  

Dany knows what she wants, which is exactly what she tells Jorah in ep 7.  She wants Jorah to be at her side as her most trusted friend and adviser.  To be there when she is crowned, to be restored to his home of Westeros.  She is conflicted because that reality is in conflict with other realities.  First, he has sexual/romantic feelings for her that he'd like to act on.  She worries, will it hurt him to be near her without that being reciprocated?  Second, he betrayed her in a way that is almost unforgivable from her perspective (eventually she forgave him because their connection is so deep).  Finally, he has greyscale and it's physically dangerous for him to be near her or her people.  

 

I don't think it's paternalistic, just a possible explanation of her developing feelings towards something possibly romantic.

I agree that what you are saying is one of the possible things she is experiencing, maybe she doesn't love him romantically at all. Different people, different visions 

16 minutes ago, A spoon of knife and fork said:

 

She is quite conscious that she can't stand to lose him.  But she's aware he's dangerous so he has to let him go. 

Oh yes, I didn't mean she is not conscious in that way, but that she is not conscious that she is falling in love with him and as result, that she doesn't want him to leave her not because she loves him as a friend, but more because she loves him as something more. But as I said, different people, different visions.

And yep, she knows she is dangerous, but in my opinion she wouldn't care if he stayed with them. She knows he wouldn't touch them. She knows it could happen accidentally, but the only thing she wants is to find a cure, and that is a genuine desire for his friend.

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Yes this is basically waht I mean. 

haha no, I don't think that Westeros is quite that progressive yet, and anyway Yara will want to go to the II eventually. 

Not yet!! LOL

[A spoon of knife and fork]

16 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Well, for me platonic means romantic, but without sex. That is what I was referring to:  and since Dany is a sexual being, the only reasons I found to explain her behaviour were the ones I mentioned. Jorah has romantic: sexual feelings for her, he is completely in love.

yes, we can agree that Dany cares a lot about Jorah, so "she is in love", although in my case I don't know how deep is this love or what it means exactly.

I don't think it's paternalistic, just a possible explanation of her developing feelings towards something possibly romantic.

I agree that what you are saying is one of the possible things she is experiencing, maybe she doesn't love him romantically at all. Different people, different visions 

Oh yes, I didn't mean she is not conscious in that way, but that she is not conscious that she is falling in love with him and as result, that she doesn't want him to leave her not because she loves him as a friend, but more because she loves him as something more. But as I said, different people, different visions.

I mean, sure it's conceivable her feelings could change and become more romantic.  But her feelings towards Jorah have been so consistent for so long that I don't see that happening.  To me it would seem a bit out of the blue to have a sudden change - just as weird would be if Jorah suddenly decided he wasn't romantically in love with Dany but no one really talks about that happening for some reason, just the other way around.  

A counter example is the Jaime - Brienne relationship which to my eye has been a very gradual but consistent move in both characters from frenemies to mutual respect to friendship to deep admiration and finally to romantic feelings.  

Bringing it back to the OP, This is part of why I could see Tyrion - Daenerys as more likely than Jorah - Daenerys.  They have so far had a more similar evolution in their relationship to Jaime - Brienne with some obvious differences and so far fewer scenes to develop the relationship.  They start off with an uneasy alliance / some mistrust, and in ep 9 they have some conflict, but by Ep 10 this season there is some clear admiration on both sides.  Could it continue to evolve towards romantic feelings? 

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And yep, she knows she is dangerous, but in my opinion she wouldn't care if he stayed with them. She knows he wouldn't touch them. She knows it could happen accidentally, but the only thing she wants is to find a cure, and that is a genuine desire for his friend.

The thing about Greyscale though is it makes you go crazy eventually and start attacking/grabbing people indiscriminately.  It's sort of like non-lethal Rabies.  She trusts Jorah sure, but she knows the disease well enough that he can't stay with them without risking a lot of people dying when this happens.  As with Daario, she is choosing the safety of her people and her ambitions in Westeros over her personal relationships. 

[Meera of Tarth]

 

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I mean, sure it's conceivable her feelings could change and become more romantic.  But her feelings towards Jorah have been so consistent for so long that I don't see that happening.  To me it would seem a bit out of the blue to have a sudden change - just as weird would be if Jorah suddenly decided he wasn't romantically in love with Dany but no one really talks about that happening for some reason, just the other way around.  

A counter example is the Jaime - Brienne relationship which to my eye has been a very gradual but consistent move in both characters from frenemies to mutual respect to friendship to deep admiration and finally to romantic feelings.  

Well, in my opinion, her feelings looked more deeper towards the ending of S5 than in the previous seasons, so that is why I thought it could happen. Furthermore, the revelation that she is not in love with Daario was another sign that she might be changing her mind on who she wants.

We should have to wait for s7.

Brienne and Jaime are very consistent, yeah. But when they are together. The only wrong thing about their relationship is that when they were apart, I could barely see them thinking of eachother at all, in contrast to te books, especially in Jaime's case, that his feelings for Cersei seemed to be greater (and more unhealthy) than in previous seasons and it was a bit anticlimatic. Don't want to go more off-topic with it, but I agree that they are written differently. it's difficult to doubt there's something there, in contrast to ShowDany and ShowJorah.

8 minutes ago, A spoon of knife and fork said:

I mean, sure it's conceivable her feelings could change and become more romantic.  But her feelings towards Jorah have been so consistent for so long that I don't see that happening.  To me it would seem a bit out of the blue to have a sudden change - just as weird would be if Jorah suddenly decided he wasn't romantically in love with Dany but no one really talks about that happening for some reason, just the other way around.  

A counter example is the Jaime - Brienne relationship which to my eye has been a very gradual but consistent move in both characters from frenemies to mutual respect to friendship to deep admiration and finally to romantic feelings.  

The thing about Greyscale though is it makes you go crazy eventually and start attacking/grabbing people indiscriminately.  It's sort of like non-lethal Rabies.  She trusts Jorah sure, but she knows the disease well enough that he can't stay with them without risking a lot of people dying when this happens.  As with Daario, she is choosing the safety of her people and her ambitions in Westeros over her personal relationships. 

Oh yes, good point. Being dangerous. I didn't have that on my mind. But it would happen when the disease has spread in his body. As for now, he hasn't shown any kind of attacking behaviour. So yes, she did for both reasons: wanting him to be healed and for risk prevention.