Nymeria is poised to return

[Melifeather]

3 hours ago, Feather Crystal said:

isn't it possible that when Jon's eye was full of blood that his vision was obstructed? I'm coming from the position that the wildlings are the Others, so while Jon thinks he's viewing the wildlings as nothing more than people just like himself, he is still blind to what they are: the Others. Only when he actually loses an eye will he be filled with knowledge.

I'm revising my impressions of this experience of Jon's. His eye keeps filling up with blood, but he keeps wiping it away. If losing an eye allows the gaining of knowledge, then Jon is literally refusing to accept knowledge!

[kissdbyfire]

On 27/03/2018 at 5:00 PM, Feather Crystal said:

Don't throw rotten tomatoes at me, but I will assert my belief right now that Rhaegar is not Jon's father, and please all your RLJ-ers out there, lets not turn Leech's thread into a debate about for RLJ...there's already a thread for that.

Not turning anything into anything else here, but just as you have the right to say Jon is not Rhaegar's son, I have the right to say, "but he is!".

But sure, for further on R+L=J seek out the pertinent thread (pinned) on the main page. 

Quote

Jon is the "Bastard O'Winterfell" and as such his father is Bael. Bael may be Mance, but he may also be some other ironborn wildling from beyond the Wall. Tormund makes regular trips over the Wall, and the text suggests he is the father of "bears" or rather Mormonts. I think its telling that Mormont gives Jon his family sword, because it suggests Jon's father is from beyond the Wall as well.

I'm not sure I follow... Jon may be Mance's or some other IB wildling's? I'm sure sure I understand what you mean by ironborn wildlings?  

And I may be misremembering - a softer-on-the-ego "I got it all wrong!"!!  - but are we ever told of Tormund going over the Wall? Because I recall several instances where this type of talk (and/or boast) occur, but not a single one where we hear about Tormund going over the Wall or anything even remotely close to that.  Whatcan I say,  I'm an old done person, my brain turned to mush... so I fully acknowledge the faul may lie w/ very faulty memory. 

Quote

Don't let the term "Draconis" throw you. The opposite of dragons are not direwolves. Dragons are fire made flesh and their opposite should be made of ice. White walkers are made of ice so they are the flip side of dragons, and since ice burns as badly as fire you could say that white walkers are also ice dragons.

Har! Just the other day I was talking to two of my fave peeps in the world and I said, "well, if dragons are fire made flesh, the WWs are ice made flesh!".

Sadly, that was as far as my mushy brain could take me...

 

---

I could have sworn there were other posts I was gonna get to reply to here. But it's all gone now. And it's late. And I'm a lazy cunt.

So I'll leave it at this and come back to this interesting chat tomorrow.

ps: read @The Fattest Leech's essay if you haven't yet! It's truly beautiful and eye-opening. I've been meaning to tell her this for ages, but always forget.

 

[Melifeather]

7 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Not turning anything into anything else here, but just as you have the right to say Jon is not Rhaegar's son, I have the right to say, "but he is!".

But sure, for further on R+L=J seek out the pertinent thread (pinned) on the main page. 

I'm not sure I follow... Jon may be Mance's or some other IB wildling's? I'm sure sure I understand what you mean by ironborn wildlings?  

And I may be misremembering - a softer-on-the-ego "I got it all wrong!"!!  - but are we ever told of Tormund going over the Wall? Because I recall several instances where this type of talk (and/or boast) occur, but not a single one where we hear about Tormund going over the Wall or anything even remotely close to that.  Whatcan I say,  I'm an old done person, my brain turned to mush... so I fully acknowledge the faul may lie w/ very faulty memory. 

Har! Just the other day I was talking to two of my fave peeps in the world and I said, "well, if dragons are fire made flesh, the WWs are ice made flesh!".

Sadly, that was as far as my mushy brain could take me...

 

---

I could have sworn there were other posts I was gonna get to reply to here. But it's all gone now. And it's late. And I'm a lazy cunt.

So I'll leave it at this and come back to this interesting chat tomorrow.

ps: read @The Fattest Leech's essay if you haven't yet! It's truly beautiful and eye-opening. I've been meaning to tell her this for ages, but always forget.

 

While not explicitly detailed in the text it does hint that Tormund is the father of Maege Mormont's daughters. One of his titles is "husband to bears", and he once told Jon to get himself a she-bear.

I'm not deliberately trying to be a contrary troll on this thread. I have read the OP and the first two pages of discussion and plan on reading page three today. I'm offering contrary interpretations when I come across them and hopefully spark some interesting discussion.

[Melifeather]

I thought of this last night and its been rattling around my dreams all night. Maybe you get to this in the next couple pages?

Mance in a cage. There seems to be a parallel between Mance in a cage and the blizzard surrounding Winterfell to Garin the Great in a cage and the rising Rhoyne and incoming fog. Which seems to imply that Mance himself may have powers. 

[Melifeather]

On 9/18/2016 at 0:18 AM, The Fattest Leech said:

"Lord Tywin favors Slynt," said Bowen Marsh, in a fretful, anxious voice.

I think this small bit indicates that Bowen isn't the mutineer we think. I agree that sorcery was involved as indicated by the tears on his face when he punched Jon in the stomach. He may not like Jon, but he is an honorable man compelled by duty to the Watch. 

On 9/18/2016 at 0:18 AM, The Fattest Leech said:

Jon would never count Ser Alliser Thorne amongst his friends, but he was still a brother.

This line above also indicates that Jon wasn't worried about Marsh and Thorne. At least his instincts regarding them were true - they are brothers of the Watch.

On 9/18/2016 at 0:18 AM, The Fattest Leech said:

More and more I feel like the entire Red Wedding was foreshadowing for this main event.

The Red Wedding is also a repeat of Durran Godsgrief and Elenei's marriage - recall that all their wedding guests were killed. I have theorized that the Children of the Forest present were sacrificed in order for Durran to obtain the powers of magic. Elenei is actually the name of ice magic, because she's the "daughter" of combining the two elements of water and wind. (the Drowned God aka sea god and the Storm God aka goddess of the wind)

On 9/18/2016 at 0:41 PM, The Fattest Leech said:

She won't mind. Will you, girl?"

Val patted the long bone knife on her hip. "Lord Crow is welcome to steal into my bed any night he dares. Once he's been gelded, keeping those vows will come much easier for him."

"Har!" Tormund snorted again. "You hear that, Toregg? Stay away from this one. I have one daughter, don't need another." Shaking his head, the wildling chief ducked back inside his tent.

You know who else Val sounds like: Asha Greyjoy

  Qarl followed her up to Galbart Glover’s bedchamber. “Get out,” she told him. “I want to be alone.”

  “What you want is me.” He tried to kiss her.

  Asha pushed him away. “Touch me again and I’ll—”

  “What?” He drew his dagger. “Undress yourself, girl.”

  “Fuck yourself, you beardless boy.”

  “I’d sooner fuck you.” One quick slash unlaced her jerkin. Asha reached for her axe, but Qarl dropped his knife and caught her wrist, twisting back her arm until the weapon fell from her fingers. He pushed her back onto Glover’s bed, kissed her hard, and tore off her tunic to let her breasts spill out. When she tried to knee him in the groin, he twisted away and forced her legs apart with his knees. “I’ll have you now.”

  “Do it,” she spat, “and I’ll kill you in your sleep.”

 

On 9/18/2016 at 0:41 PM, The Fattest Leech said:

In a way, both girls are correct. One is Lysene and the other Dothraki. The common lesson in this tale is that a moon and sun will come together and birth a dragon. This is another obvious overlap with Daenerys and what happened to her out on the Dothraki sea with her Drogo pyre and her baby dragons.

Didn't this already happen? Dany calls Drogo her "Sun" and he calls her his "Moon".

On 9/18/2016 at 0:41 PM, The Fattest Leech said:

The flames crackled softly, and in their crackling she heard the whispered name Jon Snow. His long face floated before her, limned in tongues of red and orange, appearing and disappearing again, a shadow half-seen behind a fluttering curtain. Now he was a man, now a wolf, now a man again. But the skulls were here as well, the skulls were all around him. Melisandre had seen his danger before, had tried to warn the boy of it. Enemies all around him, daggers in the dark. He would not listen.

If Melisandre is guilty of casting a spell over Marsh and the rest of the mutineers, why would she warn him? IMO the skulls all around are the wildling Others.

On 11/3/2016 at 9:40 PM, The Fattest Leech said:

The queen's men took up the cry, beating the butts of their spears against their shields. "One realm, one god, one king! STANNIS! STANNIS! ONE REALM, ONE GOD, ONE KING!"

Val did not join the chant, he saw. Nor did the brothers of the Night's Watch.

I debated skipping this, but it does seem relevant:

“EURON! EURON! EURON!” The cry swelled, became a roar. “EURON! EURON! CROW’S EYE! EURON KING!” It rolled up Nagga’s hill, like the Storm God rattling the clouds. “EURON! EURON! EURON! EURON! EURON! EURON!”

On 11/13/2016 at 3:54 PM, The Fattest Leech said:

Upon his ascension in 157 AC, Daeron marched south with his armies and defeated the Dornishmen, becoming the first Targaryen king to conquer Dorne and unite all Seven Kingdoms for the first time.

•  

It only lasted a fortnight before Lyonel is killed, right? How long was it after the wildlings were let through the Wall before Jon is stabbed?

On 11/13/2016 at 3:54 PM, The Fattest Leech said:

The Dornishmen, however, proved cunning and impossible to rule.

The wildlings will be proved to also be cunning and impossible to rule.

On 11/13/2016 at 3:54 PM, The Fattest Leech said:

One night at Sandstone, finding himself in a bed with a heavy velvet canopy, he pulled a sash near the pillows to summon a wench. When he did so, the canopy opened and a hundred red scorpions fell upon him. His death sparked new revolts, and in a fortnight all the work of the Young Dragon was undone, eventually bringing the about the death of King Daeron himself.

I see a parallel between the canopy (of light, perhaps?) and the Wall opening. The Wall itself could be the canopy of light considering that the north is upside down and under water. The hundred red scorpions falling are the wildlings falling upon the Watch. Here's a parallel between Daeron to Jon if he is indeed the Young Dragon and Boy King.

And now page 3 is complete! Moving to page 4.

[The Fattest Leech]

3 hours ago, Feather Crystal said:

I thought of this last night and its been rattling around my dreams all night. Maybe you get to this in the next couple pages?

Mance in a cage. There seems to be a parallel between Mance in a cage and the blizzard surrounding Winterfell to Garin the Great in a cage and the rising Rhoyne and incoming fog. Which seems to imply that Mance himself may have powers. 

Actually, I don’t think I ever got to Mance at all. This is a good point. Thank you. I don’t think I made too many future speculations, but I think Mance discussion would help with that. 

[The Fattest Leech]

1 hour ago, Feather Crystal said:

I think this small bit indicates that Bowen isn't the mutineer we think. I agree that sorcery was involved as indicated by the tears on his face when he punched Jon in the stomach. He may not like Jon, but he is an honorable man compelled by duty to the Watch. 

This line above also indicates that Jon wasn't worried about Marsh and Thorne. At least his instincts regarding them were true - they are brothers of the Watch.

The Red Wedding is also a repeat of Durran Godsgrief and Elenei's marriage - recall that all their wedding guests were killed. I have theorized that the Children of the Forest present were sacrificed in order for Durran to obtain the powers of magic. Elenei is actually the name of ice magic, because she's the "daughter" of combining the two elements of water and wind. (the Drowned God aka sea god and the Storm God aka goddess of the wind)

You know who else Val sounds like: Asha Greyjoy

  Qarl followed her up to Galbart Glover’s bedchamber. “Get out,” she told him. “I want to be alone.”

  “What you want is me.” He tried to kiss her.

  Asha pushed him away. “Touch me again and I’ll—”

  “What?” He drew his dagger. “Undress yourself, girl.”

  “Fuck yourself, you beardless boy.”

  “I’d sooner fuck you.” One quick slash unlaced her jerkin. Asha reached for her axe, but Qarl dropped his knife and caught her wrist, twisting back her arm until the weapon fell from her fingers. He pushed her back onto Glover’s bed, kissed her hard, and tore off her tunic to let her breasts spill out. When she tried to knee him in the groin, he twisted away and forced her legs apart with his knees. “I’ll have you now.”

  “Do it,” she spat, “and I’ll kill you in your sleep.”

 

Didn't this already happen? Dany calls Drogo her "Sun" and he calls her his "Moon".

If Melisandre is guilty of casting a spell over Marsh and the rest of the mutineers, why would she warn him? IMO the skulls all around are the wildling Others.

I debated skipping this, but it does seem relevant:

“EURON! EURON! EURON!” The cry swelled, became a roar. “EURON! EURON! CROW’S EYE! EURON KING!” It rolled up Nagga’s hill, like the Storm God rattling the clouds. “EURON! EURON! EURON! EURON! EURON! EURON!”

It only lasted a fortnight before Lyonel is killed, right? How long was it after the wildlings were let through the Wall before Jon is stabbed?

The wildlings will be proved to also be cunning and impossible to rule.

I see a parallel between the canopy (of light, perhaps?) and the Wall opening. The Wall itself could be the canopy of light considering that the north is upside down and under water. The hundred red scorpions falling are the wildlings falling upon the Watch. Here's a parallel between Daeron to Jon if he is indeed the Young Dragon and Boy King.

And now page 3 is complete! Moving to page 4.

I’m not at my computer, so this will be short and I’ll expand later, but Melisandre messes up. She is another one that may be figuring out what her hungry red god wants after we last see her, which I believe is halfway through ADWD, and one brief part in the red fire wedding. I think if Melisandre really needed Jon to know the identity of the smilers she saw, then she would have told him and not held back. I do think it would have been too much telling for the readers if she had done so. 

[Melifeather]

22 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I’m not at my computer, so this will be short and I’ll expand later, but Melisandre messes up. She is another one that may be figuring out what her hungry red god wants after we last see her, which I believe is halfway through ADWD, and one brief part in the red fire wedding. I think if Melisandre really needed Jon to know the identity of the smilers she saw, then she would have told him and not held back. I do think it would have been too much telling for the readers if she had done so. 

I think flame reading is imperfect and more of an art than a science. What she really needs is a glass candle, but even that may be open to interpretation. Are glass candles and flames much like the weirwoods? The weirwoods have no concept of time so the greenseer sees past, present, and future all together, so maybe the fire seers also see past, present, and future and confuse one for the other? 

[Melifeather]

2 hours ago, Feather Crystal said:

The Red Wedding is also a repeat of Durran Godsgrief and Elenei's marriage - recall that all their wedding guests were killed. I have theorized that the Children of the Forest present were sacrificed in order for Durran to obtain the powers of magic. Elenei is actually the name of ice magic, because she's the "daughter" of combining the two elements of water and wind. (the Drowned God aka sea god and the Storm God aka goddess of the wind)

Expanding on the thought that Elenei wasn't an actual woman, but rather a symbolic reference to magic i.e. "the moon maiden". I reiterate that the earth Planetos and the moon in the sky are viewed by the Children as sister moons, and magic is their maiden. The Children believe they broke the moon they live on by allowing humans to get their hands on the maiden magic.

If Elenei was indeed the maiden magic, then the Nights King may not have spied an actual women beyond the Wall. He spied a way to make magic, so I'm thinking he saw a Children of the Forest, chased after it, caught it, and sacrificed it. I suspect that the phrase "gave her his seed" is an analog for how magic is made.

If magic is a maiden that needs a "seed" to grow, then sacrificing the Children was giving that Child in sacrifice. A blood sacrifice germinates the magic, in other words the blood of Children is the seed that facilitates the combining of elements water and air. 

The reason why magic is a moon maiden is because a women's menstrual cycle is associated with the moon, but its the blood that seeds the magic.

[The Fattest Leech]

36 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

I think flame reading is imperfect and more of an art than a science. What she really needs is a glass candle, but even that may be open to interpretation. Are glass candles and flames much like the weirwoods? The weirwoods have no concept of time so the greenseer sees past, present, and future all together, so maybe the fire seers also see past, present, and future and confuse one for the other? 

Have you read GRRM’s story Bitterblooms? Melisandre is the reuse of GRRM’s red charlatan “priestess” named Morgan full of magic, who gives false “prophecies” based on falsified visions shown on a screen. She is known as a liar. This is how GRRM used the tale from Arthurian legend of Morgan Le Fay (this is not me assuming, it is known ). Melisandre, like Morgan full of magic Le Fay, are naughty faeries and charlatans that have their own mission that is not in line with other people. GRRM uses this archetype over and over, but none so blatantly as in these two stories. So far, in my opinion, Melisandre has not given any reason to trust her because she uses potions and powders and prophecizes visions that she herself is not clear of the meaning. 

The glass candles are bizarre and mysterious, totally agree. I kind of like that Mel doesn’t have one and things are left up to human choice and natural process in the north. 

[Melifeather]

On 11/14/2016 at 9:47 PM, The Fattest Leech said:

• How Val and Dalla got their name and their importance to Free Folk society (section 4). Or this updated woods witch one in ASOIAF world.
• Dalla and Val are derived from the old Norse word Völva, or Vala in more modern tongue. The Vala were wandering shaman/healer, and one who is a seer.
• Another translation to Völva is spæwīfe, which is like spearwife in the story.
• The weapon of the vǫlva was not the spear, the axe or the sword, but instead they were held to influence battles with different means, and one of them was the wand. This is exaclty how historic Nymeria is described and in the story Val is not a technical fighting spearwife, either.

That salty spearwife is a connection to the Ironborn's salt wives.

On 11/15/2016 at 8:14 PM, The Fattest Leech said:

This is actually one of the reasons why I think it is Super Smart of Jon to unite with the wildlings. Winter is coming and we have no idea how bad or how long it will be. Well, who better to help people to survive an everlong winter than the people who were born and bred there??? It is possible that part of the integration of Free Folk into the lower kingdom is they work with the people in a case just like this. Their house/clan leaders will have to set the example and this is why the marriage tie-ins are necessary. House Kar-Thenn???

Coming from a place where I believe the history loops are reversing purposely to un-do the harm the Children they believe they've done by allowing the First Men to obtain magic, I think the Others have to "win" this time. Not only that, but the Rhoynar need a win too. Mance in a cage will not die. Poor Jon is the result of a baby swap, because Bloodraven wanted him on the Wall. Just putting this thought out there: is it possible that Jon is not Lyanna's? Don't get your undies in a bundle, because I'm not "married" to this idea. I'm still trying to make sense of something I'm seeing. In any case, the wilding Others need to get through the Wall and take over. Un-doing their imprisonment. Check.

On 11/16/2016 at 1:29 AM, Blue-Eyed Wolf said:

The last battle between Robar and Artys took place at the foot of the Giant's Lance with the First Men on the highground.  Eventually they were attacked by Torgold Tollett (aka "Torgold the Grim"), a giant of a man and described almost like a berserker -- going into battle half-naked, laughing, a bloody star carved into his chest, and carrying two axes.  He took off Lord Redfort's arm at the shoulder and ripped off Ursula Upcliff's head with his bare hands.  @sweetsunray*** Hello!!! Broken arm!  Broken neck!  Hammer of the Waters!?! At the foot of the Giant's Lance!!!***  Robar slew Tollett with Lady Forlorn when the giant tried to grab the blade, but it sliced through his hands and buried in in Tollett's head.  House Tollett's words are When All is Darkest.  There could be some Lightbringer symbolism here.  @LmL ?  The two axes, usually crescent shaped, seem evocative of two moons.  HIs body bears the bloody star (the comet? Lightbringer?), but in this case it's Lady Forlorn that cleaves his skull open and stops him.  There's a heart-shaped ruby in the hilt of Lady Forlorn that's been pointing out a few times in the book I believe that could be significant.  Maybe LmL has a better interpretation than my clumsy one.  Sorry to get off track.  

Have I mentioned before on this thread that I think the Riverlands once had a Wall, the Hadrian to the Wall's Antoine? It's long been demolished, but this area has remnants of magic that Thoros, Beric, and Lady Stoneheart draw upon. The dead can be resuscitated using the breath of fire magic.

The parallels that you are seeing in the Vale are a reflection bouncing off the Wall...mirrored.

On 11/16/2016 at 1:29 AM, Blue-Eyed Wolf said:

So the Mountain Clan people are not just "wildlings."  They are decendents of the First Men nobility and kings in the Vale, forced to become raiders to survive after their land was stolen.  This makes me think the Runestone Royces could once again play a part in regaining control of the region.  I don't put much stock in Nestor or his son for the future, but Myranda Royce (like Alys Karstark) is a potential marriage option for solidifying a union of people.  She's desperately looking for a suitor she finds acceptable and she's not happy with her father's options right now.  Mya Stone could be a possibility as well.  Both have prejudices against them that don't fit well in their current culture.  In wildling culture, none of their sexual past or any non-traditional ways would be considered a negative.

The same can be said of the wildlings...they are descendants of the First Men nobility and kings of the north that were defeated. Winterfell used to be theirs, but when the Lord died they refused to kneel to the son...and I'm guessing the son was a bastard Snow who took the name "Stark" and legitimized himself...thus the hatred wildlings have for Starks. The Long Night was probably born out of this family feud with the wilding Others working ice magic to create white walker soldiers.

On 11/16/2016 at 4:34 PM, The Fattest Leech said:

One thing (of many) that is striking to me now is the similarities between the Twins and the Bloody Gate (I am sure this has been mentioned before) and how this mountainy area is like the Riverlands, of which both have a chance of a natural disaster to happen in the next books. Also, with Sansa (Alayne) going down to the Gates of the Moon, she is still a continuation of Sansa the moon maid.

Saving this for later. I'm sure these names are symbolic and refer to women, menstrual cycles, and "seeding" magic in order to obtain the moonmaiden known as magic.

On 11/16/2016 at 4:39 PM, Blue-Eyed Wolf said:

I'm a work too, so I'm working off my phone but I had a thought about this.  I need to keep thinking about it further, but have you noticed the sounds and spellings of names that play on Rhoyne, Nymeria, and Myr in the Vale and in the North?  Royce, Myranda,  Mya, Meera Reed (water plant), Val and Vale.  There might be others, but I can't look right now, but they are young, strong, independent, marriagable women who would probably fit in very well with freefolk culture.  I'll probably edit this when I get home.

Are all of the women's names variations of "water"? Are any of "air" or a combination? Nym-air-ia seems like a combination of water and air.

The reading of page 4 is complete!

[The Fattest Leech]

9 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

That salty spearwife is a connection to the Ironborn's salt wives.

I’m still not able to sit at my computer and respond to everything so far, but I just want to say that I think you should get all of your ideas together about this theory and post them somewhere. If you do it on this forum, I find that the reread section tends to get more thoughtful responders who look in to the story the way readers like you and I and a handful of others do. You have my curiosity peeked! 

Also, Euron has his salt wife... now does he get his “Rock” wife? 

 

[Melifeather]

42 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I’m still not able to sit at my computer and respond to everything so far, but I just want to say that I think you should get all of your ideas together about this theory and post them somewhere. If you do it on this forum, I find that the reread section tends to get more thoughtful responders who look in to the story the way readers like you and I and a handful of others do. You have my curiosity peeked! 

Also, Euron has his salt wife... now does he get his “Rock” wife? 

 

Be truthful, are my comments annoying you?   

You've got extensive work and research here, but your conclusions originate from a different starting point than mine. Its amazing how the same passages can be applied to both theories. This is the brilliance of GRRMs mind and his belief that both sides have heroes and villains. It just depends upon where you're standing!

I will try to gather my thoughts together about the wildling connection to the Ironborn into one essay. Right now I have segments spread out over a dozen different ones. It's a lot of work, and I applaud the effort you've put into yours.

Re: Euron - I don't think he wants one. He says he wants Dany and has sent Victarion to fetch her, but I think he means to eliminate her and any form of fire magic so that it cannot be used against him.

[The Fattest Leech]

Placing here to work on later.

The comparison between Nightfort (maybe also Winterfell?) and Sunspear.

Prince Doran seems to be a lesser stand-in for a Bloodraven type as well in the Dorne scenes.

A Storm of Swords - Bran IV

There were a lot of dark doors in the Nightfort, and a lot of rats. Bran could hear them scurrying through the vaults and cellars, and the maze of pitch-black tunnels that connected them. Jojen wanted to go poking around down there, but Hodor said "Hodor" to that, and Bran said "No." There were worse things than rats down in the dark beneath the Nightfort.

"This seems an old place," Jojen said as they walked down a gallery where the sunlight fell in dusty shafts through empty windows.

"Twice as old as Castle Black," Bran said, remembering. "It was the first castle on the Wall, and the largest." But it had also been the first abandoned, all the way back in the time of the Old King. Even then it had been three-quarters empty and too costly to maintain. Good Queen Alysanne had suggested that the Watch replace it with a smaller, newer castle at a spot only seven miles east, where the Wall curved along the shore of a beautiful green lake. Deep Lake had been paid for by the queen's jewels and built by the men the Old King had sent north, and the black brothers had abandoned the Nightfort to the rats.

• "You are wrong. I have dreamed of your Wall, Jon Snow. Great was the lore that raised it, and great the spells locked beneath its ice. We walk beneath one of the hinges of the world."
• Robert scarcely seemed to hear him. "Those years we spent in the Eyrie … gods, those were good years. I want you at my side again, Ned. I want you down in King's Landing, not up here at the end of the world where you are no damned use to anybody."
• Tyrion Lannister had added with a grin, but even the Imp grew silent as they rode closer. You could see it from miles off, a pale blue line across the northern horizon, stretching away to the east and west and vanishing in the far distance, immense and unbroken. This is the end of the world, it seemed to say.
• Once they had entered the forest, they were in a different world. Jon had often hunted with his father and Jory and his brother Robb. He knew the wolfswood around Winterfell as well as any man. The haunted forest was much the same, and yet the feel of it was very different.
  Perhaps it was all in the knowing. They had ridden past the end of the world; somehow that changed everything. Every shadow seemed darker, every sound more ominous. The trees pressed close and shut out the light of the setting sun. A thin crust of snow cracked beneath the hooves of their horses, with a sound like breaking bones. When the wind set the leaves to rustling, it was like a chilly finger tracing a path up Jon's spine. The Wall was at their backs, and only the gods knew what lay ahead.
  The sun was sinking below the trees when they reached their destination, a small clearing in the deep of the wood where nine weirwoods grew in a rough circle. Jon drew in a breath, and he saw Sam Tarly staring. Even in the wolfswood, you never found more than two or three of the white trees growing together; a grove of nine was unheard of. The forest floor was carpeted with fallen leaves, bloodred on top, black rot beneath. The wide smooth trunks were bone pale, and nine faces stared inward. The dried sap that crusted in the eyes was red and hard as ruby. Bowen Marsh commanded them to leave their horses outside the circle. "This is a sacred place, we will not defile it."
  • Quick sidenote: The phrase, "The forest floor was carpeted with fallen leaves, bloodred on top, black rot beneath." seems to show the opposite relation the Weirwoods have to the Shade of the Evening trees on the opposite side of the world; the underworld.

A Feast for Crows - The Captain Of Guards

"You will be seen," the maester warned.

The captain understood. Two years ago, when they had left Sunspear for the peace and isolation of the Water Gardens, Prince Doran's gout had not been half so bad. In those days he had still walked, albeit slowly, leaning on a stick and grimacing with every step. The prince did not wish his enemies to know how feeble he had grown, and the Old Palace and its shadow city were full of eyes. Eyes, the captain thought, and steps he cannot climb. He would need to fly to sit atop the Tower of the Sun.

"I must be seen. Someone must pour oil on the waters. Dorne must be reminded that it still has a prince." He smiled wanly. "Old and gouty though he is."

 

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Sunspear

Just a few points about Sunspear, and all rather interesting:

Sunspear, also known as the Old Palace,^[2] is the seat of House Nymeros Martell and the capital of Dorne. The castle is located on the Broken Arm, north of the Greenblood on the far southeastern coast of Westeros and is surrounded on three sides by the sea, and by the shadow city on the fourth side.^[3][1] The palace of the Water Gardens lies three leagues away on the coastal road.^[4]

Sunspear developed around the Sandship, the original seat of House Martell, after the arrival of the Rhoynar, the marriage of warrior-queen Nymeria to Lord Mors Martell, and the unification of Dorne during Nymeria's War, near ~700 BC. The castle received its name from the union of the Martell spear and the sun of the Rhoynar. The original structure of the Sandship was expanded by towers build in the Rhoynish fashion over time. Two of such towers are the Tower of the Sun and the Spear Tower; These are the first structures of Sunspear visitors see, whether they arrive by land or by sea.

 

And this could possibly maybe show some broad-stroke foreshadowing of the Mance in Winterfell debacle. There is a part of me that thinks Mance is still alive, in a cage or not, but that Jon's next "mission" will be to face Mance one on one and Jon, now with his eyes open, will realize he has to kill Mance to stop his treachery.

The World of Ice and Fire - The Targaryen Kings: Baelor I

The crossing of the desert between the northern foothills and the Scourge on foot, practically alone, nearly undid him. And yet he persevered. It was an arduous journey, but he survived to meet with the Prince of Dorne in what some consider to be the first miracle of Blessed Baelor's reign. And the second miracle might well be that he succeeded in forging a peace with Dorne that lasted throughout his reign. As part of the terms of the agreement, Baelor agreed that his young cousin Daeron—grandson of his Hand, Viserys, and the son of Viserys's eldest son Prince Aegon—should be betrothed to Princess Mariah, eldest child of the Prince of Dorne. Both were children at the time, so the marriage was to take place when they were of age.

After a sojourn in the Old Palace of Sunspear, the Prince of Dorne offered Baelor a galley to take him back to King's Landing. However, the young king insisted that the Seven had commanded him to walk. Some in the Dornish court feared that Prince Viserys would take it as a new cause for war when (not if) Baelor died upon the road, so the prince made every effort to make certain that the Dornish lords along the route would be hospitable. When he mounted the Boneway, Baelor turned his attention to recovering Prince Aemon from his imprisonment. He had asked the Dornish prince to explicitly command the Dragonknight's release, and this Lord Wyl accepted. Yet instead of freeing Aemon himself, he gave Baelor the key to Aemon's cage, and an invitation to use it. But now, not only was Aemon naked in a cage, exposed to the hot sun by day and the cold wind by night, but also a pit had been dug beneath the cage, and within it were many vipers. The Dragonknight is said to have begged for the king to leave him, to go and seek aid in the Dornish Marches instead, but Baelor is said to have smiled and told him that the gods would protect him. Then he stepped into the pit.

Later, the singers claimed that the vipers bowed their heads to Baelor as he passed, but the truth is otherwise. Baelor was bitten half a dozen times while crossing to the cage, and though he opened it, he nearly collapsed before the Dragonknight was able to thrust open the door and pull his cousin from the pit. The Wyls are said to have laid wagers as Prince Aemon struggled to climb out of the cage with Baelor flung across his back, and perhaps it was their cruelty that spurred him to climb to the top of the cage and leap to safety.

[The Fattest Leech]

51 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

Be truthful, are my comments annoying you?   

No. I don't think anyone can figure anything out if they stuck in a solitary bubble, and much of this thread has been me talking to myself

For instance, your comments about Mance led me to look in to him a bit more, and in turn made a few more connections that I never got in to before. Thank you! (I just started to post them in the post right above this one)

I do think we have a very different base of certain story points, and that may end up getting us stuck in rut... but who is to say who is the "right" in this unfinished story? I think the "bad" free folk will be the wildling type and those are the Weeper and his cronies, Varamyr (but he is gone), and now maybe Mance that has to be defeated to answer for his crimes.

51 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

You've got extensive work and research here, but your conclusions originate from a different starting point than mine. Its amazing how the same passages can be applied to both theories. This is the brilliance of GRRMs mind and his belief that both sides have heroes and villains. It just depends upon where you're standing!

Exactly. No one side of the wall is better than the other because the land is one.

However, knowing GRRM's personal views on the "strange people on the other side of the wall", and the way he uses the rumors about the free folk, and even has people in the story call them by a derogatory name like "wildlings", this is something close to the author's heart that I think he is working on undoing- the myth that those on the other side are the villains. You and I do differ on that point.

51 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

I will try to gather my thoughts together about the wildling connection to the Ironborn into one essay. Right now I have segments spread out over a dozen different ones. It's a lot of work, and I applaud the effort you've put into yours.

Thank you. And please so tag me in anything you post because while we may differ on some ideas, we also seem to share plenty of others close enough to have good convo.

51 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

Re: Euron - I don't think he wants one. He says he wants Dany and has sent Victarion to fetch her, but I think he means to eliminate her and any form of fire magic so that it cannot be used against him.

Hehee. I don't think he will get Dany either . I think he may have to settle for the "lesser" Daenerys in the form of Casterly Rock "princess", Cersei. I think what Melisandre maybe could have seen in her flames could have something to do with Euron as well. There are a lot of connections of fire and dragons to towers (Citadel, Pyramids in Meereen, etc), and I think Sam being in Oldtown at just this same time as Euron swimming around the corner, that maybe Mel was mixing up her interpretations again. I think this could be one of the reasons why the author did not allow Mel to tell Jon any names, it would give away too soon what the author has been building up. Maybe

A Dance with Dragons - Melisandre I

"We've had a raven from Ser Denys Mallister at the Shadow Tower," Jon Snow told her. "His men have seen fires in the mountains on the far side of the Gorge. Wildlings massing, Ser Denys believes. He thinks they are going to try to force the Bridge of Skulls again."

"Some may." Could the skulls in her vision have signified this bridge? Somehow Melisandre did not think so. "If it comes, that attack will be no more than a diversion. I saw towers by the sea, submerged beneath a black and bloody tide. That is where the heaviest blow will fall."

"Eastwatch?"

[Melifeather]

5 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

"You are wrong. I have dreamed of your Wall, Jon Snow. Great was the lore that raised it, and great the spells locked beneath its ice. We walk beneath one of the hinges of the world."

I realize that you're still working on this post, but I cannot help myself!  

A hinge holds a door, and a squeaky iron hinge means it's an old warded door....I'll leave the rest for you to ponder.

 

5 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Perhaps it was all in the knowing. They had ridden past the end of the world; somehow that changed everything. Every shadow seemed darker, every sound more ominous. The trees pressed close and shut out the light of the setting sun. A thin crust of snow cracked beneath the hooves of their horses, with a sound like breaking bones. When the wind set the leaves to rustling, it was like a chilly finger tracing a path up Jon's spine. The Wall was at their backs, and only the gods knew what lay ahead.

That passage you found upthread about a "canopy"...canopies can be a specific part of window dressings or curtains hung around a bed or window, so that is why I feel is meant to be a reference to the "curtain of light at the end of the world" that Bran saw in his coma. I also think that hinges can also be connected to windows, thus the curtain of light could be the Wall. 

I understand what you're saying about GRRMs feelings about immigrants, but maybe he's already fleshed out that idea with the various houses? For example the Lannisters versus the Starks. He's fashioned the story for the reader to sympathize with the Starks, but are the Lannisters truly evil people? Or are their actions just decisions based on what they think is best for their family? 

GRRM already has Jon sympathizing with the wildlings, and by extension the readers do too, but I think the wildlings will do what they see as best for the wildlings, and they feel like they're the "wronged" people. Escaping the imprisonment of the Wall, resettling the Gifts, and taking back Winterfell will feel like justice to them. But just because it'll be a disaster for the Starks doesn't mean that GRRM won't write it.

5 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

• • Quick sidenote: The phrase, "The forest floor was carpeted with fallen leaves, bloodred on top, black rot beneath." seems to show the opposite relation the Weirwoods have to the Shade of the Evening trees on the opposite side of the world; the underworld.

 

hmmmm....me likey!

5 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

"You will be seen," the maester warned.

The captain understood. Two years ago, when they had left Sunspear for the peace and isolation of the Water Gardens, Prince Doran's gout had not been half so bad. In those days he had still walked, albeit slowly, leaning on a stick and grimacing with every step. The prince did not wish his enemies to know how feeble he had grown, and the Old Palace and its shadow city were full of eyes. Eyes, the captain thought, and steps he cannot climb. He would need to fly to sit atop the Tower of the Sun.

"I must be seen. Someone must pour oil on the waters. Dorne must be reminded that it still has a prince." He smiled wanly. "Old and gouty though he is."

I'm really digging that you're looking for parallels and inversions, because I too believe they are central to figuring out this story, but I envision invisible wards that were removed, and invisible doors that were opened. The open doors are reeking havoc on the history loops. Quaithe actually explains to Dany how such a world can be navigated:

  Dany’s wrist still tingled where Quaithe had touched her. “Where would you have me go?” she asked. 

   “To go north, you must journey south. To reach the west, you must go east. To go forward you must go back, and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow.”

In other words the history of the Rhoynar and Dorne can be the reflection for not just the north, but we can also expect a reflection from the west. The reflection of Dorne in this mirror is Casterly Rock. Think of the parallels that exist between Cersei and Arianne, and Tywin and Doran. 

In The Captain of Guards Areo Hotah notices overripe oranges dropping from trees. He’s guarding Doran Martell who suffers from crippling gout, and in the background they both hear the sounds of children splashing in a water garden. What is the author trying to communicate to us with this symbolism? 

Gout - The need to dominate. Impatience. Anger.

Overripe oranges - Waited too long to harvest. Strongly negative or positive. Can also represent betrayal and distrust.

Water Gardens - Equates life, refreshment, growth, but as we’ve seen with the Ironborn and the symbolic northern sea it can also mean death.

Doran's physical ailments are symbolic of Tywin Lannister's internal feelings:

  “The blood oranges are well past ripe,” the prince observed in a weary voice, when the captain rolled him onto the terrace. After that he did not speak again for hours. 

  Tywin Lannister was a man of few spoken words, but some battles are won with swords and spears, others with quills and ravens. 

The overripe and bursting fruit, and the splashing children symbolize the two Houses that Tywin Lannister destroyed: The Tarbecks, and the Reynes of Castamere. Both were bannermen. Both borrowed money from their leige lord of Lannister. Both took advantage of Tytos’s weakness, and both ignored Tywin’s demands for repayment. Roger Reyne even reportedly laughed when he read Tywin’s edicts and councilled his friends and vassals to do nothing. If Areo heard the oranges and children in the water, then Ser Gregor was likely with Tywin when those two families were destroyed.

The Tarbecks - bursting fruit
Rather than starve out Tarbeck Hall, Tywin used siege engines to destroy it’s keep, bursting it open, and it collapsed on Lady Ellyn Tarbeck and her son, Tion the Red. Then he ordered the castle put to the torch (blood-orange flames). 

The Reynes - splashing water
Named after a nearby pool of water, Castamere began as a mine like Casterley Rock. Nine-tenths of the castle was subterranean. Tywin had the entrances buried beneath stone, and then dammed the pool’s stream and diverted it into a mine entrance, flooding the underground chambers.

Tywin has the patience of Job and the vengeance of God.. He makes his demands known, but if the other party fails to act and ignores the demands, he methodically strategizes until his plan is ready, and then pounces with nearly perfect execution. This is the complete opposite of Doran who tries to strategize like Tywin, but waits too long to act. Perhaps Dorne is the same as the north, but the west is the mirrored opposite?

 

4 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Hehee. I don't think he will get Dany either . I think he may have to settle for the "lesser" Daenerys in the form of Casterly Rock "princess", Cersei. I think what Melisandre maybe could have seen in her flames could have something to do with Euron as well. There are a lot of connections of fire and dragons to towers (Citadel, Pyramids in Meereen, etc), and I think Sam being in Oldtown at just this same time as Euron swimming around the corner, that maybe Mel was mixing up her interpretations again. I think this could be one of the reasons why the author did not allow Mel to tell Jon any names, it would give away too soon what the author has been building up. Maybe

This is the direction the mummer's version is taking. I can totally see Euron making Cersei believe she will be his Rock Wife. Maybe you have the right of it. It does still fit with my belief that the Martells are mirrored inversions to the Lannisters. At the same time I can totally see the Rhoynar reflected in the wildlings. To go forward we have to go backward (in history). The Rhoynar and the Martells intermarried. Will this be the case for Greyjoy and Lannister? Or will it be the mirrored inversion, whatever that may be?

[Melifeather]

Here's a little something I think you may enjoy:

In the Neolithic Age - by Rudyard Kipling

IN THE Neolithic Age savage warfare did I wage 
For food and fame and woolly horses' pelt.
I was singer to my clan in that dim, red Dawn of Man,
And I sang of all we fought and feared and felt.

Yea, I sang as now I sing, when the Prehistoric spring
Made the piled Biscayan ice-pack split and shove;
And the troll and gnome and dwerg, and the Gods of Cliff and Berg
Were about me and beneath me and above.

But a rival, of Solutré, told the tribe my style was outré—
'Neath a tomahawk, of diorite, he fell
And I left my views on Art, barbed and tanged, below the heart
Of a mammothistic etcher at Grenelle.

Then I stripped them, scalp from skull, and my hunting-dogs fed full,
And their teeth I threaded neatly on a thong;
And I wiped my mouth and said, "It is well that they are dead,
For I know my work is right and theirs was wrong."

But my Totem saw the shame; from his ridgepole-shrine he came,
And he told me in a vision of the night: —
"There are nine and sixty ways of constructing tribal lays,
"And every single one of them is right!"

Then the silence closed upon me till They put new clothing on me
Of whiter, weaker flesh and bone more frail; 
And I stepped beneath Time's finger, once again a tribal singer,
And a minor poet certified by Traill!

Still they skirmish to and fro, men my messmates on the snow
When we headed off the aurochs turn for turn;
When the rich Allobrogenses never kept amanuenses,
And our only plots were piled in lakes at Berne.

Still a cultured Christian age sees us scuffle, squeak, and rage,
Still we pinch and slap and jabber, scratch and dirk;
Still we let our business slide—as we dropped the half-dressed hide—
To show a fellow-savage how to work.

Still the world is wondrous large,—seven seas from marge to marge—
And it holds a vast of various kinds of man;
And the wildest dreams of Kew are the facts of Khatmandhu
And the crimes of Clapham chaste in Martaban.

Here's my wisdom for your use, as I learned it when the moose
And the reindeer roamed where Paris roars to-night:—
"There are nine and sixty ways of constructing tribal lays,
"And—every—single—one—of—them—is—right!"

[kissdbyfire]

On 30/03/2018 at 2:41 PM, Feather Crystal said:

The same can be said of the wildlings...they are descendants of the First Men nobility and kings of the north that were defeated.

I'm not sure I follow... How, where, which war, and defeated by whom?

On 30/03/2018 at 2:41 PM, Feather Crystal said:

Winterfell used to be theirs, but when the Lord died they refused to kneel to the son...and I'm guessing the son was a bastard Snow who took the name "Stark" and legitimized himself...thus the hatred wildlings have for Starks.

Again, sorry, but I have no idea where this is coming from... Can you provide something, anything, that supports this claim? 

For the most part what we see is a grudging respect for the Starks. And we even get things like this:

ADwD Theon I

Even the godswood was turning white. A film of ice had formed upon the pool beneath the heart tree, and the face carved into its pale trunk had grown a mustache of little icicles. At this hour they could not hope to have the old gods to themselves. Rowan pulled Theon away from the northmen praying before the tree, to a secluded spot back by the barracks wall, beside a pool of warm mud that stank of rotten eggs. Even the mud was icing up about the edges, Theon saw. "Winter is coming …"

Rowan gave him a hard look. "You have no right to mouth Lord Eddard's words. Not you. Not ever. After what you did—"

 

On 30/03/2018 at 2:41 PM, Feather Crystal said:

The Long Night was probably born out of this family feud with the wilding Others working ice magic to create white walker soldiers.

Can you please elaborate a bit? 

[The Fattest Leech]

On 3/30/2018 at 9:03 PM, Feather Crystal said:

Here's a little something I think you may enjoy:

In the Neolithic Age - by Rudyard Kipling

~snipped for space~

That is interesting because in GRRM's story And Seven Times Never Kill Man, he starts the story off with quote from part of a poem by Kipling:

Ye may kill for yourselves, and your mates, and your cubs as they need, and ye can;
But kill not for pleasure of killing, and seven times never kill Man!
—Rudyard Kipling

Light spoilers past this point:

.

.

.

That story is a great example of fire .vs. water/ice story about expansionism by force, and in doing so, repressing and displacing the native peoples. They story opens with a moral discussion that attempts to identify good .vs. evil. This story gives us the best look at the antagonist Steel Angels, which translates to Targagryens/dragons + Andals/Faith of 7 mix, and a mix of the CotF + Free Folk in the tribal characters called the Jaenshi. In this story the main protagonist is an intermediary that tries to help save Jaenshi and his name is Arik NeKrol. This guy is very much like a Jon protoype, and he is even called a "first man" that is sent to range/trade on this world for art (among a few other parallels). NeKrol's other human companion is a Val*lite* prototype names Jannis Ryther, who like Jon does to Val, sends her on a mission back to the other knowledgeable humans(condensing here). Anyway, fire happens, the Jaenshi are pushed out, Arik and Jannis learn the truth of the Jaenshi, and you see these Jaenshi are not the horrible creatures that the Steel Angels make them out to be (even using the same type of descriptions as those south of the wall use to describe the free folk).

A beginning section to that story, and secret-eyed for length :

Spoiler

"Do you believe in evil?" Arik neKrol asked Jannis Ryther as they looked down on the City of the Steel Angels from the crest of a nearby hill. Anger was written across every line of his flat yellow-brown face, as he squatted among the broken shards of what once had been a Jaenshi worship pyramid.
"Evil?" Ryther murmured in a distracted way. Her eyes never left the redstone walls below, where the dark bodies of the children were outlined starkly. The sun was going down, the fat red globe that the Steel Angels called the Heart of Bakkalon, and the valley beneath them seemed to swim in bloody mists.
"Evil," neKrol repeated. The trader was a short, pudgy man, his features decidedly mongoloid except for the flame-red hair that fell nearly to his waist. "It is a religious concept, and I am not a religious man. Long ago, when I was a very child growing up on ai-Emerel, I decided that there was no good or evil, only different ways of thinking." His small, soft hands felt around in the dust until he had a large, jagged shard that filled his fist. He stood and offered it to Ryther. "The Steel Angels have made me believe in evil again," he said.

It is a really good story, and if you have not had a chance to read I definitely recommend it. It is a novelette, which helps slow readers like me that take forever to finish a book.

[The Fattest Leech]

Wow! I never noticed this until a recent re-read

The attempted attack on Daenerys' life, and then her "white shadow" comes to the rescue to kill the enemy manticore and saves the queen! Just as will will probably see Ghost released to save Jon to prevent him from dying as well.

Dany's manticore is the physical creature, sent by the blue warlock Pyat Pree via the Sorrowful men who say, "I am so sorry" just before they attack, while Jon's manticore is the mythological, metaphorical three beast attackers (Wick, Marsh, ?) probably the red fiery hand. Both are hired assassins and both weep.

Dany's manticore is presented as a jeweled scarab that opens, while Jon cannot get his sword from his scabbard.

• Dany took it almost by reflex. The box was carved wood, its mother-of-pearl lid inlaid with jasper and chalcedony. "You are too generous." She opened it. Within was a glittering green scarab carved from onyx and emerald. Beautiful, she thought. This will help pay for our passage. As she reached inside the box, the man said, "I am so sorry," but she hardly heard.

  The scarab unfolded with a hiss.

  Dany caught a glimpse of a malign black face, almost human, and an arched tail dripping venom . . . and then the box flew from her hand in pieces, turning end over end. Sudden pain twisted her fingers. As she cried out and clutched her hand, the brass merchant let out a shriek, a woman screamed, and suddenly the Qartheen were shouting and pushing each other aside. Ser Jorah slammed past her, and Dany stumbled to one knee. She heard the hiss again. The old man drove the butt of his staff into the ground, Aggo came riding through an eggseller's stall and vaulted from his saddle, Jhogo's whip cracked overhead, Ser Jorah slammed the eunuch over the head with the brass platter, sailors and whores and merchants were fleeing or shouting or both . . .

  "Your Grace, a thousand pardons." The old man knelt. "It's dead. Did I break your hand?"

  She closed her fingers, wincing. "I don't think so."
• … away, he meant to say. When Wick Whittlestick slashed at his throat, the word turned into a grunt. Jon twisted from the knife, just enough so it barely grazed his skin. He cut me. When he put his hand to the side of his neck, blood welled between his fingers. "Why?"
  "For the Watch." Wick slashed at him again. This time Jon caught his wrist and bent his arm back until he dropped the dagger. The gangling steward backed away, his hands upraised as if to say, Not me, it was not me. Men were screaming. Jon reached for Longclaw, but his fingers had grown stiff and clumsy. Somehow he could not seem to get the sword free of its scabbard.
  Then Bowen Marsh stood there before him, tears running down his cheeks. "For the Watch." He punched Jon in the belly. When he pulled his hand away, the dagger stayed where he had buried it.

Jon fell to his knees. He found the dagger's hilt and wrenched it free. In the cold night air the wound was smoking. "Ghost," he whispered. Pain washed over him. Stick them with the pointy end. When the third dagger took him between the shoulder blades, he gave a grunt and fell face-first into the snow. He never felt the fourth knife. Only the cold …