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What happened to Shiera Seastar?

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Shiera Seastar, despite being a relatively small character in Westerosi history, has a pretty big fan base. We know she was beautiful, a Targaryen bastard, the lover of Bloodraven, and was rumored to dabble in blood magic. And that's it. It is rare to find a character where GRRM hasn't resolved his or her life. We know where Bloodraven is now. We know what happened to Aegon. Where did Shiera go? How did she die? Did she die??

99% of the secret targ/identity theories make me roll my eyes, but I'm starting to genuinely believe that Shiera might be Quaithe. It makes a lot of sense to me. 

BUT regardless, there's no proof of that. Is there proof of anything else? She didn't just disappear. Something happened to her. Do we have any idea what?

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9 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

Something that would be a spoiler. Or else we'd know.

Yeah I guess that makes sense. Like I said, it's rare for the deaths of historical figures to not be mentioned somewhere in the canon. So if we don't know about it, chances are it may become relevant later on in the series. 

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13 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

Something that would be a spoiler. Or else we'd know.

i think it is also possible grrm hasn't decided yet.

i actually kinda doubt if Shiera was that much of a sorceress. Wishful thinking, but the way she is described (said to be an avid reader. but her bathing in blood looks like a jealous rumour), gives me a feeling that there could be a twist with her actual persona, maybe she prefers more "scientific" approach to magic, rather than mystical, unlike Bloodraven and Quaithe. Like a Scully to Bloodraven's Mulder.

I wonder if Sarella knows about her history since they share thirst for knowledge.

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2 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Shiera is Quaithe. 

It is known.

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On 29/07/2016 at 6:22 AM, chrisdaw said:

Something that would be a spoiler. Or else we'd know.

It is very rare I agree with Chris on anything, in fact this may be the very first time. But yes, basically this.  

I suspect we will eventually meet Shiera in the Dunk & Egg novella's.

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2 hours ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

It is very rare I agree with Chris on anything, in fact this may be the very first time. But yes, basically this.  

I suspect we will eventually meet Shiera in the Dunk & Egg novella's.

Preferably in a picture book. ;)

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7 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

Blood Raven tells Bran there was a woman he loved, as in she is dead now.  The tree god would know.

I loved a girl in college (a couple of them, actually). She's not dead. 

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16 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I loved a girl in college (a couple of them, actually). She's not dead. 

I wish I had the quote, of course I could be wrong but I feel the implication was made.

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43 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

I wish I had the quote, of course I could be wrong but I feel the implication was made.

I can see why you feel that way...

Quote

"You cannot speak to him, try as you might. I know. I have my own ghosts, Bran. A brother that I loved, a brother that I hated, a woman I desired. Through the trees, I see them still, but no word of mine has ever reached them. The past remains the past." 

Bran III, Dance 34

I cannot say you are wrong, but I do not think the statement is determinative, either. I concede that your argument is stronger than mine, though. 

ETA

The support for Shiera Seastar being Quaithe comes from two quotes, this...

Quote

Dany had not noticed Quaithe in the crowd, yet there she stood, eyes wet and shiny behind the implacable red lacquer mask.

Daenerys III, Clash 40

And this...

Quote

“You’ve known queens and princesses. Did they dance with demons and practice the black arts?”

“Lady Shiera does. Lord Bloodraven’s paramour. She bathes in blood to keep her beauty."

The Sworn Sword

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3 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I can see why you feel that way...

Bran III, Dance 34

I cannot say you are wrong, but I do not think the statement is determinative, either. I concede that your argument is stronger than mine, though. 

ETA

The support for Shiera Seastar being Quaithe comes from two quotes, this...

Daenerys III, Clash 40

And this...

The Sworn Sword

Thanks for providing the quote, it's definitely not definitive, but I like to think Quaithe descends from Nettles and that the dragon 1 of Danys bloodriders finds near Qarth is sheepstealer.  It's pretty baseless but I believe if sheepstealer died in the mountains of the vale that the burned men would wear dragonbone jewelry or something of that sort to confirm that.

I also believe the theory that Mel is Melony Seastar, daughter of BR and Shiera, and her being sold as a slave would lead me to believe Shiera died before then.

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Spoiler chapter stuff.

Spoiler

 

 

I think she is both Euron's white fire hand woman and with less confidence Quaithe. Seems likely BR reached out to Euron at some point and then his influence ended. Which makes Euron a candidate for it having happened again, and Shiera's connection to BR putting her in proximity. The mystery woman's nature aligns with Shiera's enjoyment of mischief and inflicting mental anguish. We are told glass candles can be used to send visions/dreams to others, basically implanting ideas in their heads, and that would explain some of the extreme actions surrounding Shiera. But most of all its in her name, stars guide sailors out at sea. Euron being guided by someone makes a lot of sense.

It would not surprise me to find out Shiera planted the idea for Aegon IV to legitimise his bastards in his head, just because she gets off on chaos. Or if she were to be behind Summerhall, that is she knew the sacrifices required to birth the dragons and was behind the fire either directly or by manipulating someone else, to cause the deaths which would make the ritual succeed (only Dunk ruined it by saving Rhaegar).

For Quaithe, well she turned up when Dany birthed her dragons, leads Dany on the path that would have her more likely to match up with Euron and mentions a kraken, so seems to have them on the mind. And we are fresh out of other sorcerers for her to be, meaning if she's not Shiera her mystery is only her motives not who she is.

 

The biggest problem against all this is Shiera has not been built up at all, but then the main series doesn't have to go into that detail and it sort of follows the example of the Blackfyre rebellion, in that the detail/history is there if anyone wants to look, but the explanation is not really needed for more casual readers to still be satisfied.

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12 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

Spoiler chapter stuff.

  Hide contents

 

 

I think she is both Euron's white fire hand woman and with less confidence Quaithe. Seems likely BR reached out to Euron at some point and then his influence ended. Which makes Euron a candidate for it having happened again, and Shiera's connection to BR putting her in proximity. The mystery woman's nature aligns with Shiera's enjoyment of mischief and inflicting mental anguish. We are told glass candles can be used to send visions/dreams to others, basically implanting ideas in their heads, and that would explain some of the extreme actions surrounding Shiera. But most of all its in her name, stars guide sailors out at sea. Euron being guided by someone makes a lot of sense.

It would not surprise me to find out Shiera planted the idea for Aegon IV to legitimise his bastards in his head, just because she gets off on chaos. Or if she were to be behind Summerhall, that is she knew the sacrifices required to birth the dragons and was behind the fire either directly or by manipulating someone else, to cause the deaths which would make the ritual succeed (only Dunk ruined it by saving Rhaegar).

For Quaithe, well she turned up when Dany birthed her dragons, leads Dany on the path that would have her more likely to match up with Euron and mentions a kraken, so seems to have them on the mind. And we are fresh out of other sorcerers for her to be, meaning if she's not Shiera her mystery is only her motives not who she is.

 

The biggest problem against all this is Shiera has not been built up at all, but then the main series doesn't have to go into that detail and it sort of follows the example of the Blackfyre rebellion, in that the detail/history is there if anyone wants to look, but the explanation is not really needed for more casual readers to still be satisfied.

I also believe that Shiera is Quaithe as well as the most likely candidate to the terrible white woman with hands of pale fire.

Bloodraven has not been built up in the main books either, he's only known as the Three-Eyed Raven.

I can't find any historical woman resembling Shiera at all. Shiera reminds me a lot of Daji in Chinese classic Fengshen Yanyi (she's somewhat fictional but she really existed however, her account should be fictional (fox spirit, the Chinese always blame evil spirits instead of mentally deranged people) and a bit BS, but they also have someone like the cruel Empress Lü Zhi and Concubine Bao Si), and Daji is probably the base model of the Tiger Woman who became wife to the Bloodstone Emperor. As for proof, go look at her wiki page and read her description from GRRM. I think she's probably the most terrible woman in the series. Even Cersei never did the things she did.

If anything, her motives might be the worst of all the characters in the story, even worse than god-wannabe Euron. It seemed like all the things she did were done for her own amusement. Like she wanted to see the world burn, by giving the torch to someone else and sit back enjoying the chaos.

 

EDIT: I might missread the description of Shiera by GRRM wrong. It seemed like she only amused herself by making Bloodraven jealous. No idea what she truly thought about numerous deaths caused by men fighting for her favor though. But then again, why would they fight to death if she wouldn't agree to favor them anyway.

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6 hours ago, Schwarze Sonne said:

I also believe that Shiera is Quaithe as well as the most likely candidate to the terrible white woman with hands of pale fire.

Bloodraven has not been built up in the main books either, he's only known as the Three-Eyed Raven.

I can't find any historical woman resembling Shiera at all. Shiera reminds me a lot of Daji in Chinese classic Fengshen Yanyi (she's somewhat fictional but she really existed however, her account should be fictional (fox spirit, the Chinese always blame evil spirits instead of mentally deranged people) and a bit BS, but they also have someone like the cruel Empress Lü Zhi and Concubine Bao Si), and Daji is probably the base model of the Tiger Woman who became wife to the Bloodstone Emperor. As for proof, go look at her wiki page and read her description from GRRM. I think she's probably the most terrible woman in the series. Even Cersei never did the things she did.

 

If anything, her motives might be the worst of all the characters in the story, even worse than god-wannabe Euron. It seemed like all the things she did were done for her own amusement. Like she wanted to see the world burn, by giving the torch to someone else and sit back enjoying the chaos.

Without reading the Tales of Dunk and Egg the reader of ASOIAF can connect Bloodraven to the Three-Eyed Crow. (He's called the three-eyed raven in the glorified fanfic on HBO.) The conversation among Aemon, Samwell, and Dareon in Feast gives it away. 

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On 7/28/2016 at 11:53 PM, dsug said:

Shiera Seastar, despite being a relatively small character in Westerosi history, has a pretty big fan base. We know she was beautiful, a Targaryen bastard, the lover of Bloodraven, and was rumored to dabble in blood magic. And that's it. It is rare to find a character where GRRM hasn't resolved his or her life. We know where Bloodraven is now. We know what happened to Aegon. Where did Shiera go? How did she die? Did she die??

99% of the secret targ/identity theories make me roll my eyes, but I'm starting to genuinely believe that Shiera might be Quaithe. It makes a lot of sense to me. 

BUT regardless, there's no proof of that. Is there proof of anything else? She didn't just disappear. Something happened to her. Do we have any idea what?

Not quite. We're still in the dark about what happened to the following characters.

Gerion Lannister.

Rohanne Weber-various married names-Lannister.

Bloodraven's sisters (though to be fair they aren't mentioned in the books).

Benjen Stark.

Stonesnake.

Ashara-they-never-found-the-body-Dayne.

Nettles.

Tanselle Too Tall.

Tysha.

The following Targaryens: Rhalla and Aerea, daughters of Rhaenys & Aegon (children of Aenys I); Aegon, son of Baelon (son of Jaehaerys I); Daella and Rhae, daughters of Maekar I; Maegor, son of Aerion and Daenora; Saera, daughter of Jaehaerys I; Vaella, daughter of Daeron the Drunken, 

We do know that Saera had a pleasure house in Volantis, but nothing more. And the others we're very much in the dark about. Granted with a cast of thousands, these represent a small percentage but it's still a good-sized list.

Shiera undoubtedly went to Essos, perhaps to Lys as that's where her mother was from. She could be Quaithe, or she could be Mel's mother, or she could be Mel, or she could be Quaithe's mother. I've seen it suggested that she's Old Nan, but I find that one a bit hard to believe. I suppose another possibility is that she went to Braavos and became a courtesan. Isn't there one called the Veiled Lady? Could be her if her mother taught her any of those eternal youth magic things.

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There have been many theories about her fate. I believe that she gave birth to Bloodraven's child in Essos. This child is Melisandre or Melisandre's mother/father. She is dead for many years.

Shiera = Quaithe.This idea could work: she and Bloodraven are preparing Bran and Daenerys to fight the Others. But Shiera's eyes were uncommon and no one notices Quaithe's eyes. I don't believe she is Quaithe.

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11 minutes ago, King Endymion Targaryen said:

There have been many theories about her fate. I believe that she gave birth to Bloodraven's child in Essos. This child is Melisandre or Melisandre's mother/father. She is dead for many years.

Shiera = Quaithe.This idea could work: she and Bloodraven are preparing Bran and Daenerys to fight the Others. But Shiera's eyes were uncommon and no one notices Quaithe's eyes. I don't believe she is Quaithe.

"Dany had not noticed Quaithe in the crowd, yet there she stood, eyes wet and shiny behind the implacable red lacquer mask." 

No mention of color..

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On ‎7‎/‎29‎/‎2016 at 11:29 PM, Lord Wraith said:

It is known.

She is quaithe...yes, it is known. However, she is also pretty clearly Melisandra's mother.

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