Westeros Experts League 2016

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

2 minutes ago, Week said:

Just to point out, fairness is a matter of perspective. The process ought to be 'fair', however I would prefer a little less fairness and avoid what happened this year where a team was 0-13 and abandoned. That was not fair to people in the league* nor was it fair to other active players that weren't added to Experts. Ultimately, the decision is up to Jaime as the commish.

*Grozing - 4 teams got an extra win by virtue of two matchups. 

Yeah, I get that. You guys have a long tradition and are familiar with each other and expect a certain level of competition. I'd say you guys should give the Commish a lot of latitude when dealing with a situation like that. Like giving that team to someone else once it becomes clear an owner isn't putting in the time. 

[Dunknegg]

1 hour ago, Bronn Stone said:

If we want to discuss adding a fourth Jaxoming, this might be the year for it, since it is moot (Mudguard won Westeros B). 

Mudguard won C and Dunknegg won B.

Anyone know who won Outlaw or Defense?

[Week]

Just now, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Yeah, I get that. You guys have a long tradition and are familiar with each other and expect a certain level of competition. I'd say you guys should give the Commish a lot of latitude when dealing with a situation like that. Like giving that team to someone else once it becomes clear an owner isn't putting in the time. 

The damage is often done at draft and my time machine isn't quite ready for prime time.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

6 minutes ago, Dunknegg said:

Mudguard won C and Dunknegg won B.

Anyone know who won Outlaw or Defense?

Winterfell Fliers won Outlaw. Not sure what the owners username is.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

4 minutes ago, Week said:

The damage is often done at draft and my time machine isn't quite ready for prime time.

Sure, I'm not suggesting that it's ideal, but an active owner even with a cobbled line-up is better than an inactive owner. 

 

/You can even get creative with that and have an "expansion draft" where each team has to give up an "unprotected" player to the substitute owner coming in. 

[Week]

Just now, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Sure, I'm not suggesting that it's ideal, but an active owner even with a cobbled line-up is better than an inactive owner. 

True, I do definitely agree.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Since we're in a post-truth society now, I'm proud to declare myself the winner of the Westeros Experts League! 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Just now, Tywin et al. said:

Since we're in a post-truth society now, I'm proud to declare myself the winner of the Westeros Experts League! 

Not if you don't count the 3 million points scored by "illegal players".

[Jaime L]

A few thoughts:

1) If we do the point system, I still lean towards awarding points overwhelmingly based on winning the league. Week's point is well taken that the best FFL performance (either by regular season record or points) often doesn't win the league. And honestly, going one step beyond that, the most deserving person is whoever finishes with the best power record the league winner and award that person entry to Experts. But it kills the drama and fun of H2H and Fantasy Playoffs. Granted what Week proposed is a compromise between valuing league winners and those who were great but unlucky, and I could maybe be convinced on this, but I still like how clean an "all-or-nothing" finals week is.  

2) I wouldn't want a second premium league. Experts is special because of its scarcity. I'm not sure there are more than 25 FFL players on the board to begin with, so can't have 20 people in premier leagues without it being way too top heavy.

3) That said, there was some discussion last year about setting up a Premier League type Relegation system. One variant of which was where Experts was the top league, then you'd have up to 3 direct feeder leagues, say, W-A, W-B, W-C in which everyone can only be in one of these and the only way to either advance to Experts (or protect yourself from being Jaxomed in Experts) is to win whichever direct feeder leagues you're in. All other board leagues would be either subsidiary feeder leagues to W-A/W-B/W-C if there was enough players or more likely just apart from the whole Experts ecosystem entirely.

At least last year, there wasn't enough interest in this concept. And it may be tricky to decide on the formats of W-A through W-C as people have different feelings about expanded vs. standard rosters and snake vs. auction drafts. But theoretically at least it offers a very clean, fair, system. 

38 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Since we're in a post-truth society now, I'm proud to declare myself the winner of the Westeros Experts League! 

I dunno, I still kinda like facts. They provide the best metaphors:

Vikings plane slides off runway in Wisconsin while taxiing

[Mudguard]

4 hours ago, Week said:

The damage is often done at draft and my time machine isn't quite ready for prime time.

Yeah, I think we had 4 no shows for the auction draft in Open.  It took a while to clear all the autobids.  Luckily, I think everyone was still active, since it wasn't a super expanded roster and people could pretty easily fill spots from the waiver wire.  

[Howdyphillip]

I was planning on coming here the other day to announce results, but then I found out Carrie Fisher died and went into somewhat of a depression... Sorry guys. Here is the top three finishers of the leagues. 

Defense 

1. Yronwood Bloodroyals (I do not remember the players Westeros Username
2. Trebla
3. Howdyphillip (My highest place in 6 leagues this year... Man, fantasy was not good to me this year...)

Outlaw
1. Winterfell Flyers
2. Trebla
3. Littlefinger in the Air

Open
1. Hardhome Hippophagi
2. Dreadfort Direwolves

3. Yronwood Bloodroyals

I sent out emails requesting players to send in their usernames and did not get responses. I am going to leave it for the individuals who won to come here and let Jamie know they are up for consideration.

 

[Lord Dracarys]

Yronwood Bloodroyals is me.

[grozeng]

On ‎12‎/‎29‎/‎2016 at 4:00 PM, Jaime L said:

A few thoughts:

1) Week's point is well taken that the best FFL performance (either by regular season record or points) often doesn't win the league. And honestly, going one step beyond that, the most deserving person is whoever finishes with the best power record the league winner and award that person entry to Experts.

Except in Experts this year ... Boom!!!

Was on vacation and offline for a bit. 

Mya, congrats on a really good matchup.  I was worried when Kelce went off.  Powell was the correct play, but it sucks that any of your other RBs win you the league.

Really, congrats to everyone this year.  It was a really good league this year.  We had Week and me at the top most of the year and then WJ and Mya pass us at the end.  And then Jaime had peaked to get in to the 4th slot right at the end.  And the fight for the Jaxoming spots was really good too.  Some of the trades that were made were questionable and helped one party more than the other, but we had 9 very active teams and that was great.

If we are going to do the feeder league thing, I think we need to make sure the same 10 teams are not in each feeder league.  I disappeared from the board for most of the summer and missed out on all the feeders.  Personally I think the relegation league adds too much complexity.  The feeders are basically the relegation leagues.

[Dunknegg]

On 12/29/2016 at 3:00 PM, Jaime L said:

A few thoughts:

1) If we do the point system, I still lean towards awarding points overwhelmingly based on winning the league. Week's point is well taken that the best FFL performance (either by regular season record or points) often doesn't win the league. And honestly, going one step beyond that, the most deserving person is whoever finishes with the best power record the league winner and award that person entry to Experts. But it kills the drama and fun of H2H and Fantasy Playoffs. Granted what Week proposed is a compromise between valuing league winners and those who were great but unlucky, and I could maybe be convinced on this, but I still like how clean an "all-or-nothing" finals week is.  

3) That said, there was some discussion last year about setting up a Premier League type Relegation system. One variant of which was where Experts was the top league, then you'd have up to 3 direct feeder leagues, say, W-A, W-B, W-C in which everyone can only be in one of these and the only way to either advance to Experts (or protect yourself from being Jaxomed in Experts) is to win whichever direct feeder leagues you're in. All other board leagues would be either subsidiary feeder leagues to W-A/W-B/W-C if there was enough players or more likely just apart from the whole Experts ecosystem entirely.

At least last year, there wasn't enough interest in this concept. And it may be tricky to decide on the formats of W-A through W-C as people have different feelings about expanded vs. standard rosters and snake vs. auction drafts. But theoretically at least it offers a very clean, fair, system.

I like this idea best but it would take thorough evaluation to take into account all of the comings and goings (both up and down as well as team owners coming and going). WJ's suggestion was made on Dec 30, 2015 (sorry, I'm having trouble quoting here from a different post) in the Fantasy Football 2015 thread.  It could be done with careful planning though.

Personally, it has been a bit frustrating not knowing what criteria will be used and it feels kind of like changing the rules in the middle of a game....it may be for the best ultimately, but that's not how we started the game.  Think of it like we change from the electoral college to straight majority count after the votes have been counted. 

I still don't know if we are going with the primary feeder system and use B, C and Open like Jamie says on page 2,...or like he said on page 18 and use B, C, D and Open...or one of the multiple proposed point systems mentioned on page 19/20....and some more discussion on page 21 to leave us where we are...which I'm still not sure exactly where that is today.

I understand Bronn(and many other's concern) about deadbeat owners in Experts.  I'm sure there are others scattered around the other leagues as well, we just don't hear about them.  I propose that TraderApes be "Hugored" (i.e. banished) from the Westeros FF kingdom in totality for a to be determined amount of time as established by the Council so that all should know that affronts to Experts will not be tolerated.  I can only see for certainty that he played 2 years priors to being elevated and spitting the bit.  I hope that it was just a poor choice he made (besides his draft choices)and that nothing bad has happened to him as he hasn't posted on the boards since mid-September.  I do believe that his actions are not typical of anyone bestowed the honor of competing in Experts and hope that, while the wound is still fresh, not all "newcomers" are to be viewed with utter disdain.  Having various levels might help in that regard in that you have to work your way up to even be eligible for inclusion and you've invested energy, time, and perseverance to reach the summit.

This past year, excluding Survivor and Defense, I counted 96 total teams (16 Thunderdome and 10 each for Experts, A-D, Open, Outlaw, Dynasty...someone correct me if my numbers are wrong) and 33 unique individuals I could identify (there was 1 in Open, 1 in Outlaw, and 2 in Thunderdome I could not put a board name to the team).  That means the average # of leagues for each person is approximately 3.  It appears as if participation is on an upward trend so we may be able to incorporate some type of relegation system.  If we do, might I suggest that each member in Experts, if they so choose, would be able to have a team in one of the 3 feeders(preferably spread out as equal as possible to provide balance and ensure competitiveness) but be able to play in all the other non-feeder leagues they desire.  I do think the point system should/could be used as a tiebreaker system, but not the sole determining factor for entry.  I favor the win to get in scenario.

Sorry for the long-winded post...

Here are the league champions this year:

Experts - Groz
Westeros A - JJ Lannister
Westeros B - Dunknegg
Westeros C - Mudguard
Westeros D - JJ Lannister
Open - Pyro
Thunderdome - Mya

Outlaw - Winterfell Fliers(I don't know the board name)

Dynasty - Bronn

[Howdyphillip]

20 hours ago, Dunknegg said:

I like this idea best but it would take thorough evaluation to take into account all of the comings and goings (both up and down as well as team owners coming and going). WJ's suggestion was made on Dec 30, 2015 (sorry, I'm having trouble quoting here from a different post) in the Fantasy Football 2015 thread.  It could be done with careful planning though.

Personally, it has been a bit frustrating not knowing what criteria will be used and it feels kind of like changing the rules in the middle of a game....it may be for the best ultimately, but that's not how we started the game.  Think of it like we change from the electoral college to straight majority count after the votes have been counted. 

I still don't know if we are going with the primary feeder system and use B, C and Open like Jamie says on page 2,...or like he said on page 18 and use B, C, D and Open...or one of the multiple proposed point systems mentioned on page 19/20....and some more discussion on page 21 to leave us where we are...which I'm still not sure exactly where that is today.

I understand Bronn(and many other's concern) about deadbeat owners in Experts.  I'm sure there are others scattered around the other leagues as well, we just don't hear about them.  I propose that TraderApes be "Hugored" (i.e. banished) from the Westeros FF kingdom in totality for a to be determined amount of time as established by the Council so that all should know that affronts to Experts will not be tolerated.  I can only see for certainty that he played 2 years priors to being elevated and spitting the bit.  I hope that it was just a poor choice he made (besides his draft choices)and that nothing bad has happened to him as he hasn't posted on the boards since mid-September.  I do believe that his actions are not typical of anyone bestowed the honor of competing in Experts and hope that, while the wound is still fresh, not all "newcomers" are to be viewed with utter disdain.  Having various levels might help in that regard in that you have to work your way up to even be eligible for inclusion and you've invested energy, time, and perseverance to reach the summit.

This past year, excluding Survivor and Defense, I counted 96 total teams (16 Thunderdome and 10 each for Experts, A-D, Open, Outlaw, Dynasty...someone correct me if my numbers are wrong) and 33 unique individuals I could identify (there was 1 in Open, 1 in Outlaw, and 2 in Thunderdome I could not put a board name to the team).  That means the average # of leagues for each person is approximately 3.  It appears as if participation is on an upward trend so we may be able to incorporate some type of relegation system.  If we do, might I suggest that each member in Experts, if they so choose, would be able to play have a team in one of the 3 feeders(preferably spread out as equal as possible to provide balance and ensure competitiveness) but be able to play in all the other non-feeder leagues they desire.  I do think the point system should/could be used as a tiebreaker system, but not the sole determining factor for entry.  I favor the win to get in scenario.

Sorry for the long-winded post...

Here are the league champions this year:

Experts - Groz
Westeros A - JJ Lannister
Westeros B - Dunknegg
Westeros C - Mudguard
Westeros D - JJ Lannister
Open - Pyro
Thunderdome - Mya

Outlaw - Winterfell Fliers(I don't know the board name)

Dynasty - Bronn

Nice post. I am in favor of the Feeder leagues as well. It is ultimately up to Jamie though as he is commissioner of Experts. What was said at the beginning of the year was that Westeros B/C/ and Open received the slots. 

Next season, we can change that to Westeros A, Outlaw, and Thunderdome if both WJ and I decide to start letting our top three finishers in our open leagues into our invite only leagues. That is up to WJ, and Jamie to decide though. 

Anyways... I missed my opportunity again this year, and will have to go through a third season looking on from the outside here. Congratulations to Mya's kids (we all know they set the lineup)... See you guys in late July/ early August next year.

 

[Wrl6199]

Just now, Howdyphillip said:

Nice post. I am in favor of the Feeder leagues as well. It is ultimately up to Jamie though as he is commissioner of Experts. What was said at the beginning of the year was that Westeros B/C/ and Open received the slots. 

Next season, we can change that to Westeros A, Outlaw, and Thunderdome if both WJ and I decide to start letting our top three finishers in our open leagues into our invite only leagues. That is up to WJ, and Jamie to decide though. 

Anyways... I missed my opportunity again this year, and will have to go through a third season looking on from the outside here. Congratulations to Mya's kids (we all know they set the lineup)... See you guys in late July/ early August next year.

 

Every time i see the name of this forum methinks of a league here people are assessed questionable abort apt westeros and forced to answer them. we force inst the right word. I guess w i mean i that they volunteer to participate. But no this is another football thing. I was surprised when i joined this site the large presence of football fans. Not that i mind it just wast expecting it. Still though is this sort of like a thing where people guess what is going to happen in football.  Like whose gonna win what games and what not. Anyways if tats so that would be cool and i would be interested.

[JJ Lannister]

2 hours ago, Howdyphillip said:

Nice post. I am in favor of the Feeder leagues as well. It is ultimately up to Jamie though as he is commissioner of Experts. What was said at the beginning of the year was that Westeros B/C/ and Open received the slots. 

Next season, we can change that to Westeros A, Outlaw, and Thunderdome if both WJ and I decide to start letting our top three finishers in our open leagues into our invite only leagues. That is up to WJ, and Jamie to decide though. 

Anyways... I missed my opportunity again this year, and will have to go through a third season looking on from the outside here. Congratulations to Mya's kids (we all know they set the lineup)... See you guys in late July/ early August next year.

 

I don't remember it being said at the beginning of the year that B, C, and Open were the first three feeders. That's how it was last year and we discussed changing the system through out the 2015 season. I don't believe it was ever established how invites would work this year, which is actually my fault for getting myself Jaxomed last year. I set the ball in motion and then left Jaime holding the bag as the new commissioner, without declaring exactly how the points based system would work. My apologies for that Jaime.   

What almost happened to Bronn a couple of years ago is what initiated the conversation of change. He won 4 leagues and barely got back in. I find myself in a similar situation this year. If the old way is used then I don't get an invite and won multiple leagues. I only joined 2 other than Thunderdome and won them both.

I believe Jaime and the other returning Experts members should decide exactly what system will be used and set it in stone. 

Any tweaks to the system in the future should like wise be voted on by the league.

Just my 2 cents. GO CHIEFS!

 

[Dunknegg]

original post deleted

[Dunknegg]

On 12/8/2016 at 5:19 PM, Jaime L said:

26 minutes ago, JJ Lannister said:

HereI don't remember it being said at the beginning of the year that B, C, and Open were the first three feeders. That's how it was last year and we discussed changing the system through out the 2015 season. I don't believe it was ever established how invites would work this year, which is actually my fault for getting myself Jaxomed last year. I set the ball in motion and then left Jaime holding the bag as the new commissioner, without declaring exactly how the points based system would work. My apologies for that Jaime.   

What almost happened to Bronn a couple of years ago is what initiated the conversation of change. He won 4 leagues and barely got back in. I find myself in a similar situation this year. If the old way is used then I don't get an invite and won multiple leagues. I only joined 2 other than Thunderdome and won them both.

I believe Jaime and the other returning Experts members should decide exactly what system will be used and set it in stone. 

Any tweaks to the system in the future should like wise be voted on by the league.

Just my 2 cents. GO CHIEFS!

 

Thanks for the feedback JJ.  Congrats on winning A and D this year.

Here is Jamie's initial post as a point of reference:

On 8/12/2016 at 11:58 AM, Jaime L said:

Yep, W-B and Open are primary feed along with W-C as anyone can join those leagues and there's no specialty aspects to them like Dynasty, Survivor, Thunderdome or Defense. 

Then to the extent we can't fill spots out of those leagues, we look to the invite only leagues: W-A and Outlaw. Think that's the fairest way to pick the potential crop. 

And here is his 2nd:

On 12/8/2016 at 5:19 PM, Jaime L said:

I like that this matchup is between the team most elated to be in the wild card round and the one that couldn't be more pissed off to be in it. 

Is your "friend" a former Experts participant looking to return? 

I believe where we left it: W-B, W-C, W-D and the Open League are primary feeders.
If the spots aren't filled from those we look to other leagues with some quirk: W-A, Outlaw, T-Dome, Dynasty 

Tiebreakers of course go to the most proven active owners. 

I do not envy him making this call...it's a thankless job, but we should respect whatever his decision is.

This situation(the whole entry into Experts...not just this year) will get fixed this offseason I'm sure so that these conundrums we seem to be finding ourselves in lately will be avoided going forward.

 

[JJ Lannister]

Thanks Dunk, I missed that post running the thru the topic. I will absolutely stand by whatever Jamie decides is best going forward. I'm the one that put it on his shoulders to begin with.