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Bakker: Pounded In The Brain By The Great Ordeal Spoilers III


Durckad

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Just a few thoughts from a huge fan… Absolutely loved the scenes with Koringhus and the boy. I was so damn sad when he killed himself. I had to re-read that scene a few times. Anyone else want a short story from a Nonman perspective hunting down Dunyain in the darkness?

"For years the brethren had battled through the Thousand Thousand Halls, entombed in blackness and butchery, living by touch and sound, disguising their scent by wearing the skins of their enemy. Killing. Slaughtering..."

Sorweel’s arc was very bizarre but very interesting. The whole build up to the Mansion had me on the edge of my seat, felt very cinematic. It almost reminded me of the scene in King Kong when the native villagers first started revealing themselves. (Peter Jackson version) The tall Nonman unleashing fury was badass.

“Honor” the giant boomed from his helm, “is the sum of my purpose here.”

Disappointed with the sranc meat consequence. Ending WLW with that reveal really gave some suspense to what affect that might have on the men of the ordeal and what we got seemed a bit anticlimactic. As far as Proyas getting “buggered” (is that a British term?) by Kellhus, I felt like he wasn’t really opposed to that happening. It didn’t really offend me or anything. Seems like that part really bothered a lot of people, I’m not sure why. Perhaps Proyas has a physical attraction to Kellhus?

Saubon’s death felt very disturbing to me, I literally felt a bit overwhelmed by that scene. The only other time I felt that disturbed was the ending to TWP. Maybe it’s because I grew up Catholic, but Saubon literally going to hell was downright frightening. 

The Cnaiur reveal could’ve been done better, I saw it coming as soon as Akka and Mimara ran into a Scylvendi in the woods. When he finally was revealed, I still squealed like a schoolgirl. Love me that bisexual madman. Overall I thought it was a great addition to the series, the break was very much apparent, I would’ve loved one huge tome, but on it’s own I still think it was great. My only fear is that the next book is going to be tiny, similar to The Thousandfold Thought. Anyway, sorry if my formatting is weird, I’m usually just a gazer. Can anybody explain why Koringhus killed himself? I’m really baffled by that. Somebody dumb it down for me please! 

 

 

 

 

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He realizes that Absolute is the sum of all souls - everyone is connect is God.  To actually grasp or join the Absolute properly, you must destroy the Self.  Quickest way Kori figures to do that is to kill himself.   In his narrative, there's a line where he mentions a fraction whispering the shortest path to the Absolute is suicide (this is before his revelation/realization).  After his revelation, that fraction wins.

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Some random stuff:

 

Oiranal is a fucking Siqu!  I don't think they can be Quya too, but who knows.  Obviously, the Tall are gigantic but have normal-sized penisi.

 

Not sure if someone covered his and I missed it but I believe at one point it's revealed that Nil-Giccas pioneered the Emwamma oil bathing as a way to stave off the Dolour and Nin_ciljiras was thusly inspired to take up the practice upon his return.

I wonder if the cannibalism is going to be revealed to be a god-beacon of some kind.  By eating fellow humans the cannibals immitate the hundred and so become entangled like Kelmomas.  The Ordeal will somehow become a carnival of god-entangled cannibal religious freaks stumbling towards the pit of obscenities,  under the skeptical but steadfast leadership of Conriyan son Nersei Proyas.

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1 hour ago, Kalbear said:

Also, every time they talk about the Tall  I got amusing flashbacks to Invader Zim, which took me immediately out of the moment and put me into giggles.

Weird. Just today I was talking about TGO with my brother, who had just finished it. My wife overheard us talking about the Tall, and being a big Invader Zim fan, also started giggling.

49 minutes ago, Cursed said:

Saubon’s death felt very disturbing to me, I literally felt a bit overwhelmed by that scene. The only other time I felt that disturbed was the ending to TWP. Maybe it’s because I grew up Catholic, but Saubon literally going to hell was downright frightening. 

Not really a direct response to your post, but using it a jumping off point, I wonder how different things would have looked for Saubon had he been saved instead of damned. I'm not sure it would've been drastically different. It seems like salvation just means that your soul is given to the hungers of a specific god rather than the horde of lesser Ciphrang, which doesn't really sound better to me. Or at least that what I gleaned from the conversations between Meppa and Psatma from the WLW. Also something fun to note, Psatma's explanation to Meppa as to why she worships Yatwer and the Hundred is almost exactly the same as the reason Saubon gives Proyas for following Kellhus.

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21 minutes ago, sologdin said:

are we persuaded that saubon's hell scene is a representation of the real rather than his own culturally constructed hallucination?

I think that it's increasingly unlikely that 'you are damned because you want to be' is a reasonable viewpoint. I also don't think that there is enough time to unpack that in the books, so if that is the case it's going to be pretty flimsy. 

In this book Bakker has kind of shown that he's not really all that subtle in that respect. The @lokisnowanalysis of looking at things literally and accepting them not as metaphor but as fact is becoming more and more correct. There's nothing to indicate that damnation isn't real or is influenced by what you think it should be in 6 books now. And we have literal evidence of ciphrang dragging people's souls away, of souls rotting in hell, of the sons feasting as crocodiles on the souls of babies around a lake. 

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2 hours ago, Cursed said:

 

As far as Proyas getting “buggered” (is that a British term?) by Kellhus, I felt like he wasn’t really opposed to that happening. It didn’t really offend me or anything. Seems like that part really bothered a lot of people, I’m not sure why. Perhaps Proyas has a physical attraction to Kellhus

....what the fuck?

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37 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

....what the fuck?

I mean I don't agree Proyas wanted it. It doesn't bother me at all either though. I mean it made sense thematically. Kellhus was proving that everything Kellhus is and has built an Empire on, is a lie. It literally drove the point home. Also, could have been a way to affect Saubon also. I don't get where people think it didn't make sense, and it was just thrown in there for shots and giggles. 

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1 hour ago, Kalbear said:

I think that it's increasingly unlikely that 'you are damned because you want to be' is a reasonable viewpoint. I also don't think that there is enough time to unpack that in the books, so if that is the case it's going to be pretty flimsy. 

In this book Bakker has kind of shown that he's not really all that subtle in that respect. The @lokisnowanalysis of looking at things literally and accepting them not as metaphor but as fact is becoming more and more correct. There's nothing to indicate that damnation isn't real or is influenced by what you think it should be in 6 books now. And we have literal evidence of ciphrang dragging people's souls away, of souls rotting in hell, of the sons feasting as crocodiles on the souls of babies around a lake. 

I also said ciogli was a giant after we learned that nonmen "heroes" never stop growing, and was roundly laughed down and told it was a metaphor about the size of his achievements, not that he was twenty feet tall.

i said that because I figured the shortest path was to take it literally. 

This is also why I've been all koringhus esque about deluded dunyain for years now. Though I think the new kellhus povs mitigate against the possibility that kellhus is as deluded as he was in the first series.

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Random thought: The Tusk condemns sorcery, so sorcery must still be possible in some form without a lingua arcana - Gnostic mages use Gilcunya and the Anagogics use its debased form High Kunna (what does debased even mean in this context?).  I wonder if you take a speaking child, cut out his tongue, and teach it sign language - if then, if he or she was one of the few, if they could work sorcery with their fingers? 

The Cishaurim don't seem to use words, and their foreheads glow.  I wonder if sign-language would make fingers glow.

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1 hour ago, Triskan said:

So The Buggering was to make sure that Proyas understood that Kellhus was now telling the truth and everything before had been a lie?  That the point of it was to shock him into wakefulness?

Just how I read it. Maybe the book just needed a little buggering, who knows? 

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2 hours ago, Triskan said:

So The Buggering was to make sure that Proyas understood that Kellhus was now telling the truth and everything before had been a lie?  That the point of it was to shock him into wakefulness?

Nothing like a little rape to make your victim believe you're being honest. Totally makes sense.

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