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jamprab

Vary's end game REVEALED

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Varys's end game is to be King.  He became a eunich because the Targaryens sent someone to extinguish the line of the Blackfyres.  Rather than kill him they would have him live his life knowing his legacy would die with him.  His goal is to extinguish the Targaryen line.  What better way to do so than to become one of their most trusted allies?  The reason Young Griff is not a part of the show is Varys can replace him as the Blackfyre contender for the throne.  

He takes people of talent and honor and puts them into positions of power.  Why?  So they trust him entirely.      

When Oberyn asks Varys what he really wants, Varys responded by looking at the throne.  He wants to take the throne before he dies so a Blackfyre will have finally succeeded.  

Varys story of how he was cut is a lie.  If it was for blood magic, wouldn't they burn him entirely?  Why did they only burn his privates?  So he couldn't reproduce.  He wasn't thrown out to die, they made sure he lived.

Let me know your thoughts, Thanks!

Update 8/6

Four thoughts to add:

  1. The voice Varys heard was Bran's, and Bran will be the one to bring the Blackfyres into the show.  When Kinvara speaks to Varys she says "should i tell you the name of the one who spoke?"  If it was her god, why not credit him directly?  Why leave it vague?  She leaves it vague because she knows Varys knows the speaker's identity, and the speaker's identity is important to Varys.  Whether Varys knew it was Bran or mistook him for another is a separate question.
  2. Varys was born in Lys, which has the greatest population of remaining Valyrians in the world.
  3. Viserys, Aerys, Daenerys, Varys, Jaeherys.  Varys name is similar to Targaryen names.
  4.  Varys constantly shaves his head.  Why?  How many completely shaven heads are there among the shows characters?

Update 8/7

I've seen several responses stating the above is incorrect because Varys (or Baelish, depending on the thread) said his motives were different.  One example is:

My Theory: Baelish's real goal is the destruction of the Starks and to become Warden of the North.

Response:  Baelish already told Sansa his goal is The Iron Throne and marrying her.

I think Baelish lied to Sansa and sees her as an enemy.  I also think we won't learn his true motives until the end.  He's that type of character.  Varys is also.  In both cases it seems plausible their ultimate goals are very carefully concealed and what they say is disinformation with bits of truth attached.

 

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I'm not a book reader so I'm not informed enough about the Blackfyres to comment too much on this, but it's an interesting theory.  I would have been more into this before they showed Varys on the boat with Dany at the end of S6.  It seemed his timing of arriving in Mereen right after Dany left and then leaving right before she returns, all coinciding with the rise of the Sons of the Harpy faction, was leading for him to be an enemy of Dany.  Plus he tried to have her killed in S1.  But then when he brought Olenna and Dorne together for Dany it seems like he's actually pro-Targ.  Who the hell knows though.  Maybe his look at the throne with Oberyn in the room was a longing for a Targ on the throne and not meant to reference himself.

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I think the whole reason Young Griff/Aegon was not introduced into the show and Varys was just made into a clear Dany supporter is because D&D are cutting all the side stories that they feel won't having any huge affect on the end game (The War for the Dawn) and so they don't have to cast more people than necessary (introducing the Faegon/Blackfyre subplot would mean having to bring back Illyrio, cast Young Griff, Jon Connington, etc). Plus if the Blackfyres were gonna have any sort of presence in the TV series they would of at least been mentioned already. The Blackfyres haven't been mentioned ONCE in the tv show but they have plenty in the books. To me it seems like Cersei has taken Young Griff's place as Dany's main adversary for when she lands in Westeros. (In the books I suspect Aegon and Dany will become enemies when she arrives in Westeros).

D&D don't want there to be TOO many factions.

The show has clearly made Varys seriously want what's best for the realm, I suspect in the books it is not this clear though.

I am one of the people that wishes they would of brought the Fageon plot into the show but alas it looks like it clearly isn't happening. D&D could of easily gotten 10+ seasons out of this show but they cut way too many things.

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Yeah, sorry... if the Blackfyres were going to matter to the story in any manner we'd have had more mention of them by now.,

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On 8/5/2016 at 6:34 PM, jamprab said:

 

Varys's end game is to be King.  He became a eunich because the Targaryens sent someone to extinguish the line of the Blackfyres.  Rather than kill him they would have him live his life knowing his legacy would die with him.  His goal is to extinguish the Targaryen line.  What better way to do so than to become one of their most trusted allies?  The reason Young Griff is not a part of the show is Varys can replace him as the Blackfyre contender for the throne.  

He takes people of talent and honor and puts them into positions of power.  Why?  So they trust him entirely.      

When Oberyn asks Varys what he really wants, Varys responded by looking at the throne.  He wants to take the throne before he dies so a Blackfyre will have finally succeeded.  

Varys story of how he was cut is a lie.  If it was for blood magic, wouldn't they burn him entirely?  Why did they only burn his privates?  So he couldn't reproduce.  He wasn't thrown out to die, they made sure he lived.

 

Let me know your thoughts, Thanks!

The whore that came from Winterfell (the one that used to bang Theon) felt Varys up when he went to her with some plot and to her obvious shock, she found nothing.

Varys as Blackfyre is very strange.  BUT if you are saying book only, then maybe.

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33 minutes ago, Iron Mother said:

The whore that came from Winterfell (the one that used to bang Theon) felt Varys up when he went to her with some plot and to her obvious shock, she found nothing.

Varys as Blackfyre is very strange.  BUT if you are saying book only, then maybe.

I'm saying he'll be a Blackfyre in both the books and the show.  This show is mainly about political intrigue, and Varys is the Kaiser Sose (a reference from the movie "The Usual Suspects", one of the greatest plot twists ever) of Westeros.  

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I could see Varys and Littlefinger being in cahoots with each other to orchestrate a war between Dany and Jon that would devastate the kingdom and lead themselves to being strong enough to conquer the iron throne with just the army of the Vale. 

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6 minutes ago, AugustusTheGreat said:

I could see Varys and Littlefinger being in cahoots with each other to orchestrate a war between Dany and Jon that would devastate the kingdom and lead themselves to being strong enough to conquer the iron throne with just the army of the Vale. 

I think it has been made clear multiple times that Varys has never/and will never be "in cahoots" with Baelish.

Varys and Baelish have been set up as clear rivals since Season 1 and I don't see anything that points to them working together, the first few seasons have clearly shown they've been making moves against one another the entire time. The real "Game of Thrones" is between them clearly. Varys is backing the Targaryens and Baelish is backing.....himself.

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7 minutes ago, Adam_Up_Bxtch said:

I think it has been made clear multiple times that Varys has never/and will never be "in cahoots" with Baelish.

Varys and Baelish have been set up as clear rivals since Season 1 and I don't see anything that points to them working together, the first few seasons have clearly shown they've been making moves against one another the entire time. The real "Game of Thrones" is between them clearly. Varys is backing the Targaryens and Baelish is backing.....himself.

I do not believe Varys is truly with the Targaryens.  The ending needs a shocker somewhere, and he is a very likely candidate.

I do agree Varys and Baelish are not working together, but I think Varys opposes Littlefinger for reasons other than those we know.  It could have a simple explanation; Varys casts suspicion onto Baelish to deflect attention from himself.  

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Just now, jamprab said:

I do not believe Varys is truly with the Targaryens.  The ending needs a shocker somewhere, and he is a very likely candidate.

I do agree Varys and Baelish are not working together, but I think Varys opposes Littlefinger for reasons other than those we know.  It could have a simple explanation; Varys casts suspicion onto Baelish to deflect attention from himself.  

Well if we were discussing the books yes, Varys isn't truly in it with the Targs, but this is the show we're discussing and faegon is nowhere to be seen so I believe D&D have made him a clear Targaryen supporter. Unless Faegon gets suddenly introduced next season I just don't see who Varys could be backing besides Daenerys that'd make logical sense.

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6 minutes ago, Adam_Up_Bxtch said:

I think it has been made clear multiple times that Varys has never/and will never be "in cahoots" with Baelish.

Varys and Baelish have been set up as clear rivals since Season 1 and I don't see anything that points to them working together, the first few seasons have clearly shown they've been making moves against one another the entire time. The real "Game of Thrones" is between them clearly. Varys is backing Daenerys and Baelish is backing.....himself.

(Varys: "We used to be so close")

(Littlefinger: I admire you... Varys: And I admire you, Lord Baelish... So, here we stand, in mutual admiration and respect, serving a new king...)

Littlefinger also teaches Varys what chaos really is, which would be the technique that they use in my theory to archive the iron throne. They both agree that the iron throne has an appeal to it, and all of their conversations have taken place in the throne room. We know the intentions of Littlefinger, but not Varys. 

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12 minutes ago, AugustusTheGreat said:

(Varys: "We used to be so close")

(Littlefinger: I admire you... Varys: And I admire you, Lord Baelish... So, here we stand, in mutual admiration and respect, serving a new king...)

Littlefinger also teaches Varys what chaos really is, which would be the technique that they use in my theory to archive the iron throne. They both agree that the iron throne has an appeal to it, and all of their conversations have taken place in the throne room. We know the intentions of Littlefinger, but not Varys. 

And yet at every opportunity in the show, Varys has tried to undermine Baelish's plots (trying to marry Sansa to the Tyrells so that LF can't take Sansa himself, using Ros to spy on LF which results in LF deposing of Ros through Joffrey, etc)

Baelish has also done things that Varys clearly didn't want or intend to happen. Ned being executed was not what Varys wanted at all as he didn't want any large scale conflicts to start "too soon" as him and Illyrio were waiting for Drogo and Dany's baby to be born. Him and Cersei both try to convince Joffrey not to do it, and Varys knew exactly who was behind it (if you watch the execution scene you can see Varys glaring straight at Baelish right before Ned is beheaded)

Varys and Baelish even have two different ideologies when it comes to the game. Baelish thrives in chaos, where as Varys doesn't. They are clearly not allies.

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5 minutes ago, Adam_Up_Bxtch said:

And yet at every opportunity in the show, Varys has tried to undermine Baelish's plots (trying to marry Sansa to the Tyrells so that LF can't take Sansa himself, using Ros to spy on LF which results in LF deposing of Ros through Joffrey, etc)

Baelish has also done things that Varys clearly didn't want or intend to happen. Ned being executed was not what Varys wanted at all, but Varys knew exactly who was behind it anyways (if you watch the execution scene you can see Varys glaring straight at Baelish right before Ned is beheaded)

Varys and Baelish even have two different ideologies when it comes to the game. Baelish thrives in chaos, where as Varys doesn't.

We dont know what Varys thrives off, or of what his goal is. For such a mysterious character, it would be hard to imagine that for a man who is so cunning that his goals and ideas are as straightforward as he has led us to believe with his whole "realm" stuff. Ned Stark even questioned him about that several times, because he knows something with Varys is off. 

I think that my theory is very unlikely, but between their conversations and Joffery's death, they have had a lot of time to plan their stuff out, and considering the collision course that Varys has created that fits the description of "creating chaos", I wouldnt rule it out. 

Perhaps the end game is to get rid of all the major houses. Pretty much all of them are severely damaged or almost all gone by now, and all it takes is a handful of more deaths before the direct bloodlines of the 7 major houses are gone. Perhaps Varys has already noticed the wheel, and wishes to wipe it off the face of Westeros. 

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19 minutes ago, AugustusTheGreat said:

We dont know what Varys thrives off, or of what his goal is. For such a mysterious character, it would be hard to imagine that for a man who is so cunning that his goals and ideas are as straightforward as he has led us to believe with his whole "realm" stuff. Ned Stark even questioned him about that several times, because he knows something with Varys is off. 

I think that my theory is very unlikely, but between their conversations and Joffery's death, they have had a lot of time to plan their stuff out, and considering the collision course that Varys has created that fits the description of "creating chaos", I wouldnt rule it out. 

Perhaps the end game is to get rid of all the major houses. Pretty much all of them are severely damaged or almost all gone by now, and all it takes is a handful of more deaths before the direct bloodlines of the 7 major houses are gone. Perhaps Varys has already noticed the wheel, and wishes to wipe it off the face of Westeros. 

Vary's "for the realm" has always been a farce, his "excuse" when he gets asked directly what his motivations are to hide his true ones, he has clearly been backing the Targaryens since the start probably since Aerys brought him to KL (I think the book Varys has a much deeper reason behind what he is doing and I think he is definitely part of a Blackfyre conspiracy). In the show Baelish wants the throne for himself and Varys wants a Benevolent dictatorship under a person of High Valyrian descent since The Targaryens managed to keep the realms together for a little under 300 years. Before Aegon The Conquerer came Westeros was in bad shape, it was torn by war between a bunch of hungry warmongers and I think show Varys wants "order" under something that has worked the best. The Targaryens may have had some bad kings under their reign but there have been plenty of good ones as well. The first non-Targaryen to sit the throne was a terrible king and his ignorance towards his wife's incestual affair led to to even more bloodshed after his death and Joffrey was horrible as King even with Tywin trying to pull the strings from behind the scenes.

I think when D&D started planning out the TV series they wanted to keep Vary's "for the realm" mentality which in reality was a mask he was using to hide his plot of a Blackfyre ascension but they didn't want to include Young Griff or the Blackfyres at all in the show so they made him a complete Targ supporter even though this would contradict his earlier "for the realm" mentality since he'd be releasing a Dothraki horde on Westeros which isn't in the realm's best interest. So in the show at first him and Illyrio would truly be supporting.... Viserys...ugh. That'd obviously be who they were supporting since there is no faegon. Dany was always gonna be a pawn just to get the Dothraki armies, it wasn't until Viserys died that Dany became Vary and Illyrio's main piece. They really should of kept Faegon because Vary's motivations are a clusterfuck now since they didn't include that plot.

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48 minutes ago, Adam_Up_Bxtch said:

And yet at every opportunity in the show, Varys has tried to undermine Baelish's plots (trying to marry Sansa to the Tyrells so that LF can't take Sansa himself, using Ros to spy on LF which results in LF deposing of Ros through Joffrey, etc)

Baelish has also done things that Varys clearly didn't want or intend to happen. Ned being executed was not what Varys wanted at all as he didn't want any large scale conflicts to start "too soon" as him and Illyrio were waiting for Drogo and Dany's baby to be born. Him and Cersei both try to convince Joffrey not to do it, and Varys knew exactly who was behind it (if you watch the execution scene you can see Varys glaring straight at Baelish right before Ned is beheaded)

Varys and Baelish even have two different ideologies when it comes to the game. Baelish thrives in chaos, where as Varys doesn't. They are clearly not allies.

Actually, I think Baelish doesn't care about the throne.  He wants Winterfell, and he wants all of the Starks dead.  If he still loved Catelyn, why did he lie to her about having Arya in season 2?  If he loves Sansa, why did he lie about Arya again in season 3, then put her in an unsupervised mortal peril situation with Ramsay?  He told us his true intentions in season 5 when he was talking to Cersei.  He wants the North.  

Watch the panic in his eyes when Jon is named King in the North.  He didn't expect that.  The look he gave Sansa afterwards screamed "bad investment".

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1 minute ago, Adam_Up_Bxtch said:

Vary's "for the realm" has always been a farce, his "excuse" when he gets asked directly what his motivations are to hide his true ones, he has clearly been backing the Targaryens since the start probably since Aerys brought him to KL (I think the book Varys has a much deeper reason behind what he is doing and I think he is definitely part of a Blackfyre conspiracy). In the show Baelish wants the throne for himself and Varys wants a Benevolent dictatorship under a person of High Valyrian descent since The Targaryens managed to keep the realms together for a little under 300 years. Before Aegon The Conquerer came Westeros was in bad shape, it was torn by war between a bunch of hungry warmongers and I think show Varys wants "order" under something that has worked the best. The Targaryens may have had some bad kings under their reign but there have been plenty of good ones as well. The first non-Targaryen to sit the throne was a terrible king and his ignorance towards his wife's incestual affair led to to even more bloodshed after his death and Joffrey was horrible as King even with Tywin trying to pull the strings from behind the scenes.

I think when D&D started planning out the TV series they wanted to keep Vary's "for the realm" mentality which in reality was a mask he was using to hide his plot of a Blackfyre ascension but they didn't want to include Young Griff or the Blackfyres at all in the show so they made him a complete Targ supporter even though this would contradict his earlier "for the realm" mentality since he'd be releasing a Dothraki horde on Westeros which isn't in the realm's best interest. So in the show at first him and Illyrio would truly be supporting.... Viserys...ugh. That'd obviously be who they were supporting since there is no faegon. Dany was always gonna be a pawn just to get the Dothraki armies, it wasn't until Viserys died that Dany became Vary and Illyrio's main piece. They really should of kept Faegon because this shit is a clusterfuck now since they didn't include that plot.

I know, he likes the Targs and all... but thats it? For a guy of his mysterious caliber, it would feel more appropriate for him to be a part of something bigger.

Also, if he was a pure Targeryn supporter, then why would he lie about it to Ned? He knew Ned was a dead man anyway, but clearly liked him. 

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11 minutes ago, AugustusTheGreat said:

I know, he likes the Targs and all... but thats it? For a guy of his mysterious caliber, it would feel more appropriate for him to be a part of something bigger.

Also, if he was a pure Targeryn supporter, then why would he lie about it to Ned? He knew Ned was a dead man anyway, but clearly liked him. 

Well he technically wouldn't be lying if a Targaryen being on the Throne would be "better for the realm". It's kind of like how in the books

Spoiler

before Varys kills Kevan Lannister he keeps calling faegon "Aegon" but never says he's a Targaryen. He isn't lying when he says Aegon is alive because the kid they are masquerading as Aegon Targayrne's real name is infact Aegon as well.

He didn't know Ned Stark was a dead man actually. Varys knew Cersei wanted to spare Ned and send him to the nights watch. LF's scheming behind Cersei and Vary's backs led to Ned's death.

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10 minutes ago, jamprab said:

Actually, I think Baelish doesn't care about the throne.  He wants Winterfell, and he wants all of the Starks dead.  If he still loved Catelyn, why did he lie to her about having Arya in season 2?  If he loves Sansa, why did he lie about Arya again in season 3, then put her in an unsupervised mortal peril situation with Ramsay?  He told us his true intentions in season 5 when he was talking to Cersei.  He wants the North.  

Watch the panic in his eyes when Jon is named King in the North.  He didn't expect that.  The look he gave Sansa afterwards screamed "bad investment".

If he wants the Starks dead, then why didnt he just leave them die in the battle of the bastards? Much simpler solution and it creates no suspicion that he was planning on killing them. 

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