Is There Anything On The Show That You Think Is Better Than The Books?

[Cridefea]

15 hours ago, Dragon in the North said:

There is a basic plot to ASOIAF. Families fight over the Iron Throne while ignoring the true threat to the North. That may seem simplistic to you, but if you'll notice, each major storyline has something to do with the War fro the Iron Throne or the White Walkers. 

And that is exactly what I meant. This is YOUR basic plot. ASoIaF is complex and there are many storylines, so if you ask some people to explain the main plot of the story probably will give different answers. For me there are 2 basic plots who sometimes interwine, but mostly of the time are parallels: families who fight each other for the surviving and/or the power and a legendary magical force who is growing stronger. Other people can tell you there are 3 basic plotlines in 3 different geographical areas, adding a 3rd plot across the Narrow See, mostly about a culture revolution.

So I think you must have to consider this if you look what moves the storylines. Brienne's character development could be a move in the WW plot (that is my interpretation based on my "main plot" of the final battle) or a move in the games of throne plot (for ex. she now knows that Arya is alive and, above all, that Gendry is a Baratheon, given her relationship with Jaime this could be important.). 

Moreover, in every Quest of fantasy stories there is a moment in which the research of something/someone comes to an apparently dead-end street who is necessary to the character development and the final solution. Without this moments there's no resolution at all.

Even in the show, the candle was a dead-end street. For me it was less useful to any plot, than the chapters.

Don't know if I have explained it clear. 

[A spoon of knife and fork]

17 hours ago, David Selig said:

I disliked Tyrion's plot in ADWD too. Though it was better than the screen version.

These were just examples. The point is the show wasted huge amount of time on boring stuff with little to no plot relevance in the last few seasons. Like all the speeches and talks the High Sparrow had in the last season. What the hell was the point?

Those scenes and speeches did a great job of making me absolutely loathe him, even more than I hate Cersei.   I think that was the point, so that the climax of him getting utterly defeated in episode 10 would work - in any case, it worked for me.  If the High Sparrow got less attention (like in the book so far) then I wouldn't have cared nearly as much when he died.  

[MrsStocksey]

On ‎23‎/‎09‎/‎2016 at 6:36 AM, Cron said:

Good stuff, I enjoyed reading it all!

I strongly believe I'm in a small minorityof people who actually enjoyed Brienne's wandering around.  I think it's b/c, to me, it was classically reminiscent of King Arthur stories, with questing knights wandering around, searching for years and years for the Holy Grail.  I do understand this kind of "wandering storytelling" could be an acquired taste, though. (The Once and Future King, by T.H. White, is a tremendous book, I thought.  Anyone who hasn't read it, but loves ASOIAF might want to give it a try.  Don't worry though, there's a lot more to the story than wandering.)

Regarding GOT being one of the best shows on televistion, I recently started a thread about GOT's very recent record setting Emmy night, you might want to check it out if you haven't seen it yet.  It's in this same "General (GOT)" section.

Thanks for your response....sorry it's taken a while to come back!  I'll have a look at the book, always looking for new reading material!!

I can see that the thread has already moved on with the discussion about Brienne's role in the book/show.  I like her as a character in both show and books, but I don't see her as a major character (YET- this may change), which means I can understand why the show chose to condense her story line right down.  Her book story has little interaction with any of the main show characters until the last chapter and she isn't a key player in the show (YET) such as a contender for the throne like Dany or one of the Stark child, so her screen time is very limited.  So they condensed her 'wandering', gave her a more immediate focus e.g. had her interact with Sansa fairly early on to reaffirm her goal to protect her, had her watch a candle (I realise not the most reverting thing) but left her off screen for much of the time so we didn't actually watch her watch the candle other than 2 or maybe 3 very short scenes (I think....correct me if it was more)! 

It was a simple change that fed the other storylines around it too, added more tension to Sansa/Theon relationship and whether he would light the candle, betraying Sansa to Ramsey, pushing his guilt and her anger until he revealed the truth about Bran/Rickon.  It added to the Stannis storyline as you realised that he was getting closer to the women who had sworn vengeance on him and finally got her revenge.  Also, for me, there was always the vague fear that Ramsey would send people/dogs after Brienne and she could end up in his clutches and we'd get more torture porn so there was that slight fear for her being so close to him.

Anyway....it's just a personal opinion.  Some of her book wondering was enjoyable, as a bit of an old romantic all the parts where she thought about Jamie were gratifying, I just think 8 chapters of it was too much.  Although who knows, maybe she'll end up the most important character in the books, marries Jamie and sits on the Iron Throne, which is why we spent so much book time with her.

[Rhollo]

On 25.9.2016 at 0:10 AM, Dragon in the North said:

There is a basic plot to ASOIAF. Families fight over the Iron Throne while ignoring the true threat to the North. That may seem simplistic to you, but if you'll notice, each major storyline has something to do with the War fro the Iron Throne or the White Walkers. 

Do you consider Arya to be a major/important character ?

Because she has very little (nothing really beyond the first book) to do with the "basic plot" as you describe it . Even less then Brienne or the Dornish. 

[dsug]

I am curious to see how the books handle Cersei post-walk of shame. In my mind, the show did her brilliantly after the Walk, and it was very believable and at times tragic to see how low she's fallen. I know we saw a snippet of her at the end of ADWD, but I don't find that too indicative of what will happen to her, as all she did was eat dinner. 

[dsug]

On 9/24/2016 at 7:43 PM, David Selig said:

I disliked Tyrion's plot in ADWD too. Though it was better than the screen version.

These were just examples. The point is the show wasted huge amount of time on boring stuff with little to no plot relevance in the last few seasons. Like all the speeches and talks the High Sparrow had in the last season. What the hell was the point?

um creating a character?? describing motivations and backstory?? people complain about the lack of depth, then complain when they give the characters more depth

[Meera of Tarth]

7 hours ago, MrsStocksey said:

Thanks for your response....sorry it's taken a while to come back!  I'll have a look at the book, always looking for new reading material!!

I can see that the thread has already moved on with the discussion about Brienne's role in the book/show.  I like her as a character in both show and books, but I don't see her as a major character (YET- this may change), which means I can understand why the show chose to condense her story line right down.  Her book story has little interaction with any of the main show characters until the last chapter and she isn't a key player in the show (YET) such as a contender for the throne like Dany or one of the Stark child, so her screen time is very limited.  So they condensed her 'wandering', gave her a more immediate focus e.g. had her interact with Sansa fairly early on to reaffirm her goal to protect her, had her watch a candle (I realise not the most reverting thing) but left her off screen for much of the time so we didn't actually watch her watch the candle other than 2 or maybe 3 very short scenes (I think....correct me if it was more)! 

More scenes watching her watching a candle would have better (more elegant) IMo than other things such as The Merchant of Cocks or The Bad Pussy seducing Bronn. However, it still was very bad writing given the material she has in the books = almost 95% was cut= is this an adaptation?

Quote

It was a simple change that fed the other storylines around it too, added more tension to Sansa/Theon relationship and whether he would light the candle, betraying Sansa to Ramsey, pushing his guilt and her anger until he revealed the truth about Bran/Rickon.  It added to the Stannis storyline as you realised that he was getting closer to the women who had sworn vengeance on him and finally got her revenge.  Also, for me, there was always the vague fear that Ramsey would send people/dogs after Brienne and she could end up in his clutches and we'd get more torture porn so there was that slight fear for her being so close to him.

I'm glad I didn't have that feeling! It would have been much more horrible to watch....

Quote

Anyway....it's just a personal opinion.  Some of her book wondering was enjoyable, as a bit of an old romantic all the parts where she thought about Jamie were gratifying, I just think 8 chapters of it was too much.  Although who knows, maybe she'll end up the most important character in the books, marries Jamie and sits on the Iron Throne, which is why we spent so much book time with her.

It was! A bit of She thinking of Jaime would have been interesting

[Meera of Tarth]

1 hour ago, dsug said:

I am curious to see how the books handle Cersei post-walk of shame. In my mind, the show did her brilliantly after the Walk, and it was very believable and at times tragic to see how low she's fallen. I know we saw a snippet of her at the end of ADWD, but I don't find that too indicative of what will happen to her, as all she did was eat dinner. 

It was one of the few moments that IMO they made a good adaptation. They followed the books, and, as a consequence of that, it was really good.

The other ones were Arya as "Cat" (Lana) of The Canals saying: "Oysters, Clams & Cockles!" in Braavos, The Hall of the Faces (not the ritual) and how they adapted Aemon's story. Or Jon=Lord Commander-it wasn't bad, and when he executes Slynt.

When they did something good or similar to the book in S5 I smiled of joy-I'm not lying!!!! (as an only show watcher until s4 and reading the books just after s4 I wanted (and expected!) to watch an adaptation). My disappointment was so big than when I actually saw something similar I really really smiled. "Is it happening?" -I said to myself

[dsug]

6 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

It was one of the few moments that IMO they made a good adaptation. They followed the books, and, as a consequence of that, it was really good.

The other ones were Arya as "Cat" (Lana) of The Canals saying: "Oysters, Clams & Cockles!" in Braavos, The Hall of the Faces (not the ritual) and how they adapted Aemon's story. Or Jon=Lord Commander-it wasn't bad, and when he executes Slynt.

When they did something good or similar to the book in S5 I smiled of joy-I'm not lying!!!! (as an only show watcher until s4 and reading the books just after s4 I wanted (and expected!) to watch an adaptation). My disappointment was so big than when I actually saw something similar I really really smiled. "Is it happening?" -I said to myself

While the kind words are appreciated, I am unsure how Cersei's season six storyline is good adaptation, when they didn't actually adapt anything. Her story Season Six is well beyond that of the books. 

[Cron]

12 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

It was one of the few moments that IMO they made a good adaptation. They followed the books, and, as a consequence of that, it was really good.

The other ones were Arya as "Cat" (Lana) of The Canals saying: "Oysters, Clams & Cockles!" in Braavos, The Hall of the Faces (not the ritual) and how they adapted Aemon's story. Or Jon=Lord Commander-it wasn't bad, and when he executes Slynt.

When they did something good or similar to the book in S5 I smiled of joy-I'm not lying!!!! (as an only show watcher until s4 and reading the books just after s4 I wanted (and expected!) to watch an adaptation). My disappointment was so big than when I actually saw something similar I really really smiled. "Is it happening?" -I said to myself

Oh, this is interesting.

I knew Arya is Cat of the Canals in the books, but in the show she's "Lana"?  I didn't catch that.

Are we sure it's spelled "Lana"?  in the books, I believe Lanna is Tyrion and Tysha's daughter, and Tysha IS in Braavos (the prostitute known as The Sailor's Wife).  That would be VERY interesting if Lanna has been introduced in the show, if only indirectly.  Is it possible Arya met her and knew her???  If that's the name Arya was going by (Lana or Lanna), I would say that's too much of a coincidence otherwise (that that's the name Arya was going by, while in the very same city that Lanna is in, with no connection between them).

[Meera of Tarth]

7 hours ago, dsug said:

While the kind words are appreciated, I am unsure how Cersei's season six storyline is good adaptation, when they didn't actually adapt anything. Her story Season Six is well beyond that of the books. 

Sorry, I know you were talking both post-walk and walk and didn't specify which one I was commenting.

I was referring to the walk of shame, of course!

[Meera of Tarth]

1 hour ago, Cron said:

Oh, this is interesting.

I knew Arya is Cat of the Canals in the books, but in the show she's "Lana"?  I didn't catch that.

Are we sure it's spelled "Lana"?  in the books, I believe Lanna is Tyrion and Tysha's daughter, and Tysha IS in Braavos (the prostitute known as The Sailor's Wife).  That would be VERY interesting if Lanna has been introduced in the show, if only indirectly.  Is it possible Arya met her and knew her???  If that's the name Arya was going by (Lana or Lanna), I would say that's too much of a coincidence otherwise (that that's the name Arya was going by, while in the very same city that Lanna is in, with no connection between them).

Sure it should be spelled Lanna if they wanted to "honour" the name of that tertiary character from the books. I am rewatching Smallville and this has made misspell it, LOL.

but you got my point. So feew moments in S5 that could be called adaptation.

 

No I don't think Lanna will appear.

[David Selig]

17 hours ago, dsug said:

um creating a character?? describing motivations and backstory?? people complain about the lack of depth, then complain when they give the characters more depth

Adding rambling and repetitive boring speeches isn't the same thing as adding depth. And I was talking about plot development anyway because the whole discussion started from another poster saying Brienne's story in AFFC was rightly cut from the show since it added nothing to the plot. Purely in terms of plot all of these speeches were unarguably a waste of time.

[JonSnow4President]

4 hours ago, David Selig said:

Adding rambling and repetitive boring speeches isn't the same thing as adding depth. And I was talking about plot development anyway because the whole discussion started from another poster saying Brienne's story in AFFC was rightly cut from the show since it added nothing to the plot. Purely in terms of plot all of these speeches were unarguably a waste of time.

But... But..... Mother's Day!

[Land's End]

On 2.9.2016 at 1:38 PM, RhaenysB said:

I know it's a bit of shallow thinking, but lack of closure drives me insane. ASOIAF is a fantasy fiction, a story you read for the plot and not the literary orgasm that you read Orwell or Tolstoy or Gogol for. Therefore I neeeeeeeed closure. This is the general reason why I'm pissed at the books, closure is nowhere in sight at the end of book 5 and god knows when/if there will be a book 6, let alone 7. I jumped on the ASOIAF bandwagon quite late, essentially after the show aired and got me hooked, and even that has been 5 years. Can't imagine readers who were there from the first couple books. And sure, these stories live on and inspire the fantasy of readers to complete sub-stories the author neglected or close plotlines and characters the way they imagine. Still, an actual canon closure is always coveted, in my opinion.

You must be my spirit animal, this is exactly how I feel about the books. Seriously, when I finished ADwD I wanted to scream "WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE? JAMES JOYCE? WE DON'T NEED A FANTASY VERSION OF ULYSSES" at the book Though I'd argue Tolstoi has a lot more closure than Martin. Gogol hasn't, but Gogol died of religious fasting before he could finish Dead Souls so he's excused.

[Meera of Tarth]

23 minutes ago, Land's End said:

You must be my spirit animal, this is exactly how I feel about the books. Seriously, when I finished ADwD I wanted to scream "WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE? JAMES JOYCE? WE DON'T NEED A FANTASY VERSION OF ULYSSES" at the book Though I'd argue Tolstoi has a lot more closure than Martin. Gogol hasn't, but Gogol died of religious fasting before he could finish Dead Souls so he's excused.

When I finished S5 I just wanted to vomit. 

[Ashes Of Westeros]

55 minutes ago, Land's End said:

Gogol hasn't, but Gogol died of religious fasting before he could finish Dead Souls so he's excused.

And Gogol burned the second part of Dead Sould anyway.

But I feel you. I need closure at least for the biggest storylines. I can live without knowing where whores go or where the Valirian swords gone or what happened to Rickon, but pleeeeeease...

[JonSnow4President]

Just remember the books aren't done.  You're going to have your closure in the end.

[Cron]

8 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Sure it should be spelled Lanna if they wanted to "honour" the name of that tertiary character from the books. I am rewatching Smallville and this has made misspell it, LOL.

but you got my point. So feew moments in S5 that could be called adaptation.

 

No I don't think Lanna will appear.

Good stuff from you, as usual.  

I'd love to discuss Smallville with you, too bad it's off topic.  I don't want to summon "The Wrath of the Mods."

I won't be surprised If Lanna makes an appearance in the show, though.  I think there's a decent chance that Tyrion is gonna end up with Tysha at the end, his true love.

[Meera of Tarth]

9 minutes ago, Cron said:

Good stuff from you, as usual.  I'd love to discuss Smallville with you, too bad it's off topic.  I don't want to summon "The Wrath."

I won't be surprised If Lanna makes an appearance in the show, though.  I think there's a decent chance that Tyrion is gonna end up with Tysha at the end, his true love.

Smallville? wrath? These two words together no!!!! If you want to discuss a particular aspect of it you can send me a PM essay. But better if it's something positive. If you read my profile you'll know I'm a great fan of Smallville.

I don't think she will appear because Arya's story in Braavos has come to an end and she didn't met her...as for Tysha....since the show forgot about her in S4 I don't think she will appear again, although she would probably be the best match for Tyrion.