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Is There Anything On The Show That You Think Is Better Than The Books?


Cron

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3 hours ago, Cron said:

Well, the current series is already scheduled to end anyway after two more seasons, of course, which only have 13 more episodes total (7 episodes in Season 7, and 6 episodes in Season 8), but it's not b/c of ratings (far as I know, the ratings are as strong as ever).

Rumor is that we'll be getting a spin-off when this current series ends, though.  Who knows, maybe they'll learn from some of the things they did that were unpopular.  I hope a spin-off focuses heavily on the younger cast (who are cheaper for budget purposes anyway, as I strongly understand it; I've heard the five most expensive actors, all tied in "money per episode," are Cersei, Jaime, Tyrion, Dany and Jon), with some of the older characters who survive the current run appearing less often and/or being limited to cameos. (Or, of course, they might do something completely different for a spin-off)

I DON'T believe GOT is done, though, or will end in two years.  My understanding is that it is, in fact, still HBO's highest rated show, and of course the show just broke an Emmy record recently (I have a thread on it in this sub-forum with details, if you're interested).  I confidently predict HBO won't just walk away from that audience, they'll dish up something.

The spinoff won't be a sequel, it will be a prequel of some major event that happened before Game of Thrones such as Aegon's conquest, Dance of the Dragons or Dunk and Egg.

I doubt they would do Robert's rebellion.

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7 hours ago, farerb said:

The spinoff won't be a sequel, it will be a prequel of some major event that happened before Game of Thrones such as Aegon's conquest, Dance of the Dragons or Dunk and Egg.

I doubt they would do Robert's rebellion.

I would sell my firstborn for a Dance of the Dragons prequel. I don't particularly care to see a RR series, simply because we have already seen parts of it on screen: we know what happened at the Tower of Joy, we saw Jaime kill the Mad King and we know why, we know about the wildfire plot and what that led to. 

The Dance still has some mystique to it. I know they did the lore video on it, but we still know next to nothing about the characters themselves. all that gave us is the bare bones of what happened. 

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18 hours ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

Probably we would see the Robert's rebellion as prequel? Though such series could be interesting mostly for GoT fans.

I would love to see D&E mini-series too.

There was a time when Robert's Rebellion would have been the spin-off (or prequel) I most wanted to see (by far), but I no longer feel that way.  I am very pleased that we are actually seeing on-screen key scenes from it, and hopefully that will continue (via Bran's visions).

But now, we've seen those key scenes, and I do NOT like it when shows or movies show us the same things over and over (Excellent example:  Comic book movie reboots.  How many times do I need to see Spider-Man's origin?  Or Batrman's origin? Or yet another retelling of Superman's origin???  Please, stop, just stop, and give me new material.)  We've seen those scenes from Robert's Rebellion, and I do not want to waste valuable screen time showing different variations of the same thing.  (Don't get me wrong, though, if they make Robert's Rebellion, you better believe I'll  be watching.  I'd really love to see scenes with Rhaegar, and the Tourney at Harrenhal, but I've got a feeling we're gonna see that in Bran's visions during the current run anyway.  I believe we'll see the "Knight of the Laughing Tree" story, and we will see Rhaegar and Lyanna meet there, and then fall in love, which in my strong opinion they clearly did)

Regarding Dunk & Egg, yeah, that would be awesome too, but that would be a really short mini-series.  I'd say 6 episodes, TOPS, and maybe not even that, for the entire "Knight of the Seven Kingdoms" book (all 3 novellas).

But hey, I won't complain no matter WHAT they give us...I'll be watching for sure. (And I'm very confident we will get something)

 

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19 hours ago, farerb said:

The spinoff won't be a sequel, it will be a prequel of some major event that happened before Game of Thrones such as Aegon's conquest, Dance of the Dragons or Dunk and Egg.

I doubt they would do Robert's rebellion.

I love talking about spin-offs, and I welcome the conversation, but here's the major problem with Aegon's Conquest and Dance of Dragons, as I see it:  

MASSIVE budget problems for CGI with both.  Or, I guess they could tell those stories while downplaying the dragons in a major way, like they did the direwolves...but no, I don't think they'll do that (at least, I hope not)

Dunk & Egg:  As I said above, not enough material.  It's maybe 6 one hour episodes to cover all 3 novellas, maybe less.  It might be only four or five episodes.  Not nearly enough material to be a spin-off (but maybe some short term, limited run mini-series.  CGI would be nearly non-existent, so that's a plus.).

My spin-off prediction, and vote:  Move forward with the young cast (they're cheaper actors, too), telling their story after ASOIAF, with other surviving characters making limited appearances or even cameos.  Character driven, sparse on CGI, and some of the characters are extremely popular (Arya, Gendry, Lyanna Mormont Bran, maybe some others).  This seems most likely to me, cuz the audience is already there (big Arya fan base, Bran fan base, Lyanna Mormont fan base, et cetera)  It's a natural transition.

(I addressed Robert's Rebellion just above.  In sum, it wouldn't be my first choice anymore, but if they make it I'll watch it.)

But hey, maybe I'm all wrong about all of that.  Just my thoughts and opinions, of course.

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5 hours ago, Cron said:

There was a time when Robert's Rebellion would have been the spin-off (or prequel) I most wanted to see (by far), but I no longer feel that way.  I am very pleased that we are actually seeing on-screen key scenes from it, and hopefully that will continue (via Bran's visions).

But now, we've seen those key scenes, and I do NOT like it when shows or movies show us the same things over and over (Excellent example:  Comic book movie reboots.  How many times do I need to see Spider-Man's origin?  Or Batrman's origin? Or yet another retelling of Superman's origin???  Please, stop, just stop, and give me new material.)  We've seen those scenes from Robert's Rebellion, and I do not want to waste valuable screen time showing different variations of the same thing.  (Don't get me wrong, though, if they make Robert's Rebellion, you better believe I'll  be watching.  I'd really love to see scenes with Rhaegar, and the Tourney at Harrenhal, but I've got a feeling we're gonna see that in Bran's visions during the current run anyway.  I believe we'll see the "Knight of the Laughing Tree" story, and we will see Rhaegar and Lyanna meet there, and then fall in love, which in my strong opinion they clearly did)

Regarding Dunk & Egg, yeah, that would be awesome too, but that would be a really short mini-series.  I'd say 6 episodes, TOPS, and maybe not even that, for the entire "Knight of the Seven Kingdoms" book (all 3 novellas).

But hey, I won't complain no matter WHAT they give us...I'll be watching for sure. (And I'm very confident we will get something)

Yeah I'd agree with this, I think the whole point with Roberts Rebellion is that so much of the drama within it remains unresolved and is carried forward to the events were now seeing.

In terms of what else they could do I'm not sure following existing characters is a great idea, Martin created characters to tell a specific story and moving beyond that very often presents significant problems plus your potentially undermining the current story and indeed assuming there will be much left to carry on with.

Dunk and Egg being short might not be THAT big a negative, especially if the production follows directly on from GoT meaning there aren't the startup costs, half a dozen episodes can still make them a lot of money. For something longer involving the not too distant history thern I think the Dance of Dragons makes a lot more sense that Aegons conquest, the former I think has much more potential for effective drama.

One thing they could do I spose is go way back and cover the original long night, especially if the idea that Bran might potentially become Bran the builder himself somehow(maybe Warg into someone elses body)?

Of course another alternative for HBO(and maybe D&D) might just be to move onto another story, as mentioned earlier I would love to see Dune given a go and it does seem well placed to tap into the same market.

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4 hours ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

Another idea: the Age of heros or the Long Night. It requires a lot of CGI for WWs and COF, but no dragons. It can be a cool video game too.

Well, again, I'll watch pretty much anything Westeros-related, but...I'm not really into the "zombie" aspects of ASOIAF/GOT anywhere near as much as I'm into the living characters, dragons, direwolves, giants, et cetera.

But hey, maybe they will go in that direction.  Zombie stories seem to be very much in vogue over the last 5 to 10 years or so, so maybe they'll believe coninguing with that type of stuff is the best way to transition the audience from the current series to the next.

 

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3 minutes ago, Cron said:

Well, again, I'll watch pretty much anything Westeros-related, but...I'm not really into the "zombie" aspects of ASOIAF/GOT anywhere near as much as I'm into the living characters, dragons, direwolves, giants, et cetera.

But hey, maybe they will go in that direction.  Zombie stories seem to be very much in vogue over the last 5 to 10 years or so, so maybe they'll believe coninguing with that type of stuff is the best way to transition the audience from the current series to the next.

I think the Long Nigth has a lot of visual in it and the events aren't described that detailed so it gives a lot of freedom to create their own story. TBH, I'm sceptical about post-ASOIAF spin-off, for me it would the same characters in the same setting but without GRRM's story. Kind of fanfic.

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4 hours ago, MoreOrLess said:

Yeah I'd agree with this, I think the whole point with Roberts Rebellion is that so much of the drama within it remains unresolved and is carried forward to the events were now seeing.

Yeah, agreed, and like I said I think we're going to see even more from that time period (Robert's Rebellion) in Bran's visions (which is great for the current run, but the more we see the less I want a spin-off of Robert's Rebellion)

4 hours ago, MoreOrLess said:

In terms of what else they could do I'm not sure following existing characters is a great idea, Martin created characters to tell a specific story and moving beyond that very often presents significant problems plus your potentially undermining the current story and indeed assuming there will be much left to carry on with.

I hear you, but in my opinion they will take marketing into account, too (not just what works creatively).  "What sells?"  I believe the greatest likelihood of drawing the greatest percentage of the current audience into the new spin-off is to transition with characters the audience already knows and loves.

If the audience has to learn a whole new set of characters, the audience has to learn all about them from scratch, AND the details of their characters (personalities, motivations, desires, et cetera) have to be fleshed out from scratch, too, which is work that GRRM has already done for the current cast (think how much easier it is for the writers to write stories for the current, well known characters than it is to almost create the personalities of a whole new cast.   It's far easier to say "What would Arya do in this situation?" than "Just what kind of man was Aegon the Conqueror, really, in private?"  This is cuz we KNOW Arya, but Aegon is almost a blank slate in so many ways.

I think they'll take the easier path, with characters that are already extremely well develped and well known.  (This is how spin-offs usually work ,anyway, for these same reasons, I strongly believe. I could name a number of spin-offs from very popular shows that plucked a few characters out of the original cast and made them centerpieces of the new show in continuing stories)

Also worth noting, my opinion:  They are very unlikely to accidentally step on GRRM's toes in any of this.  Because of his age and slow writing pace, I'd say it's a coin flip as to whether we will even get Book 7 of the current run, much less anything after that (IF we were to get Book 1 of a new series, I beileve GRRM would be in his 80's by the time it's publiished.  I honestly don't believe he's going to tackle the start of a new series at or around that age.)

4 hours ago, MoreOrLess said:

Dunk and Egg being short might not be THAT big a negative, especially if the production follows directly on from GoT meaning there aren't the startup costs, half a dozen episodes can still make them a lot of money. For something longer involving the not too distant history thern I think the Dance of Dragons makes a lot more sense that Aegons conquest, the former I think has much more potential for effective drama.

Again, I'll watch anything they make (at least, I'll give it a try).  Dunk & Egg would be great, but I think they'll be looking to sink their teeth into something that will let them milk this thing for a lot more than 5 or 6 episodes.   The other stuff you mention would be fantastic, too, but as I've said, I believe that those things would be so CGI heavy that they'll decline to take it on.

The current character most likely to get a LOT of screen time in a spin-off, in my opinion is...Arya.  No one else is even close in my mind.

4 hours ago, MoreOrLess said:

One thing they could do I spose is go way back and cover the original long night, especially if the idea that Bran might potentially become Bran the builder himself somehow(maybe Warg into someone elses body)?

Of course another alternative for HBO(and maybe D&D) might just be to move onto another story, as mentioned earlier I would love to see Dune given a go and it does seem well placed to tap into the same market.

I'm a huge Dune fan, and would definitely be on board for that, too, but not if it replaces GOT.  

Hey, can't we be greedy and have both???

HARR!!!

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52 minutes ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

I think the Long Nigth has a lot of visual in it and the events aren't described that detailed so it gives a lot of freedom to create their own story. TBH, I'm sceptical about post-ASOIAF spin-off, for me it would the same characters in the same setting but without GRRM's story. Kind of fanfic.

Please see my response to "MoreOrLess" just above regarding the post-ASOIAF spin-off.

In addition to all of that, please consider:  It's the easiest path for them to take.  Why risk creation and casting of entirely new characters, when so many great characters have already been created and cast?   Example:   Arya Stark is (a) fully fleshed out, (b) extremely popular, and (c) already cast with Maisie Williams, who I think nearly everyone believes is perfect for the role.  Why throw Arya's character aside just to roll dice on the creation and casting of entirely new character who might not be nearly so popular??

And creation and casting of entirely new characters is so much more work.

The more I think about it, the more likely it becomes in my mind that we are going to get a "post-ASOIAF" spin-off.

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1 hour ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

I think the Long Nigth has a lot of visual in it and the events aren't described that detailed so it gives a lot of freedom to create their own story. TBH, I'm sceptical about post-ASOIAF spin-off, for me it would the same characters in the same setting but without GRRM's story. Kind of fanfic.

That's basically what's happening now.

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6 hours ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

Don't get me wrong, I think it's really possible that HBO will make a post-GOT spin-off about Arya, Lyanna Mormont or whoever. And probably it will sell well. I'm just not sure I will watch it.

Really?  Won't give it a chance?

Think of it this way:  Will you be watching Seasons 7 and 8?

If so, what's the difference between (a) post-ASOIAF stories, and (b) what we've been seeing for about the last season and a half, and we will be seeing in Seasons 7 and 8?  

My understanding: Not much.  

They've already moved past the books.  My understanding is they have some broad, general information that is guiding them right now, but most of what we're getting is already non-GRRM anyway. (Which is why I would be in favor of GRRM NOT writing Book 7, and just being the main showrunner full time, since it's the best way for us to get as much ASOIAF out of GRRM's brain as we can as quickly as possible)

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On October 16, 2016 at 0:58 PM, MoreOrLess said:

Personal opinion as well but I think theres also more of a danger in a TV series outstaying its welcome than there is with a series of books, I think theres likely to be the material there that D&D could have produced 10 seasons or more but would things have remained as fresh during that time?

I can think of a lot of exellent show that very clearly peaked well before they actually ended, often for that reason.

I agree. I can't imagine what the show would have been like if they attempted to adapt three seasons of AFFC/ADWD, like Martin wanted. I believe the showrunners made the right decision in cutting out the fat and move the plot forward towards the end faster than the books.

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My guess is that the end game on the show will actually be a lot more similar to the books(when/if they ever see the light of day) that what we've seen over the last couple of seasons. It seems very likely that Martin will collapse down his story as well and when he does you'll lose a lot of the need to plot streamlining we've seen recently.

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3 hours ago, Cron said:

Really?  Won't give it a chance?

Think of it this way:  Will you be watching Seasons 7 and 8?

If so, what's the difference between (a) post-ASOIAF stories, and (b) what we've been seeing for about the last season and a half, and we will be seeing in Seasons 7 and 8?  

My understanding: Not much.  

I love ASOIAF universe and I would watch almost anything related, but I'm not into spin-offs. I like the characters, but for me they exist only within the series, not that I would like to follow their lives until they die from old age. Probably I would watch 1-2 episodes and probably HBO will make such a great GRRM-sque story that will catch me. But now I doubt it.

And yes, I will watch 7-8 episodes, because I want to know the story's end.

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I would point out as well that ASOIAF/GOT already has a very high turnover of characters, there has always been a high degree of "will people carry on watching if there favourite dies?" talk yet they have in ever greater numbers.

One big issue for me is that if you make a prequel of something like The Dance of Dragons do you fundamentally change what kind of story your telling? For all the talk about "shades of grey" and for all the complex politics I think the core of ASOIAF is that it is still a moral heroic adventure, characters like Jon and the threat of the walkers cut though the politics and personal ambition/revenge with a higher moral position. You go back to something like the Dance and is the same going to be possible?

You have the outline of how the plot might unfold from Martin but you could argue that's all it was ever intended to be, extra detail without the same elements that make ASOIAF what it is. Doesn't mean it cannot be worthwhile I spose just that it would likely be different.

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1) Tywin, Bronn, Jorah, Oberyn, Osha and even Stannis are much more charismatic on the show. Especially Oberyn rocked! 

2) The introduction of Meera and Jojen. Much, much better. 

3) Lesbian Asha! I love her to death in the books,  and even I was utterly dissapointed at first that she, like all the Greyjoys, doesn't have the looks like her book counterpart, she is an amazing character on the show! 

4) Talisa. Jeyne Westerling was so dull, I couldn't believe she was the one Robb lost his kingdom and life for. Nah. 

5) Aging up Tommen 

6) Daenerys' horrible wedding night. The book version was so cheesy and cringeworthy....Although I understand GRRM's intentions, this scenario was completely unrealistic. Khal Drogo giving massages and being super gentle? Dany, after years of abuse via Viserys,  sold off to a savage nearly 20 years her elder, after watching a barbaric feast, is wet and willing? Never, lol.

7) Tywin and Arya at Harrenhal. Epic scenes. 

8) Cersei is a better bitch on the show. Book Cersei is a hysterical lunatic, but show Cersei is creepy and crazy.

9) moon door

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4 hours ago, Marylou said:

1) Tywin, Bronn, Jorah, Oberyn, Osha and even Stannis are much more charismatic on the show. Especially Oberyn rocked! 

2) The introduction of Meera and Jojen. Much, much better. 

3) Lesbian Asha! I love her to death in the books,  and even I was utterly dissapointed at first that she, like all the Greyjoys, doesn't have the looks like her book counterpart, she is an amazing character on the show! 

4) Talisa. Jeyne Westerling was so dull, I couldn't believe she was the one Robb lost his kingdom and life for. Nah. 

5) Aging up Tommen 

6) Daenerys' horrible wedding night. The book version was so cheesy and cringeworthy....Although I understand GRRM's intentions, this scenario was completely unrealistic. Khal Drogo giving massages and being super gentle? Dany, after years of abuse via Viserys,  sold off to a savage nearly 20 years her elder, after watching a barbaric feast, is wet and willing? Never, lol.

7) Tywin and Arya at Harrenhal. Epic scenes. 

8) Cersei is a better bitch on the show. Book Cersei is a hysterical lunatic, but show Cersei is creepy and crazy.

9) moon door

Agree, agree, agree. 

Cersei is much more menacing on the show because she's more reserved and sometimes harder to read. 

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