Is There Anything On The Show That You Think Is Better Than The Books?

[Cron]

19 hours ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

I love ASOIAF universe and I would watch almost anything related, but I'm not into spin-offs. I like the characters, but for me they exist only within the series, not that I would like to follow their lives until they die from old age. Probably I would watch 1-2 episodes and probably HBO will make such a great GRRM-sque story that will catch me. But now I doubt it.

And yes, I will watch 7-8 episodes, because I want to know the story's end.

Well, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I'll continue to watch forever if it sucks.

But I have a feeling it won't.

Who knows, maybe my greatest hope for the show will come true:  GRRM stops writing novels, and becomes the top showrunner, drawing up plot lines in broad strokes, with multiple people below him fleshing out the story and the characters.  That way, it would all be canon-GRRM, but without him having to take on the mammoth task of doing virtually all the work himself (I've heard he has some assistants that help with the books, especially with things like contiuity and fine details, but I"m talking about some people working with GRRM in a more active way than even that)

[Larger than Average Finger]

Whats better about the show, is a commitment to advancing the story, and getting to the end.

I don't think Martin will ever finish his books.  He may release Winds of Winter eventually, but he will never get done the series.

[dsug]

44 minutes ago, Larger than Average Finger said:

Whats better about the show, is a commitment to advancing the story, and getting to the end.

I don't think Martin will ever finish his books.  He may release Winds of Winter eventually, but he will never get done the series.

Your username is funny I like it!!!

[Cron]

On 10/20/2016 at 0:38 PM, Larger than Average Finger said:

Whats better about the show, is a commitment to advancing the story, and getting to the end.

I don't think Martin will ever finish his books.  He may release Winds of Winter eventually, but he will never get done the series.

I think you're right that we'll never get Book 7, and I'm fine with that if it means GRRM can and will devote a lot more time to the show.

The best way for us to get as much ASOIAF out of GRRM's brain as we can as quickly as possible is not by gettng a book once every 6 or 7 years (and maybe not even that often, given his age). but rather, for GRRM to become the top show runner, plotting out the show  (and spin-offs) in broad strokes, and letting others help him fill in the finer details.  In this way, we could get the equivalent of an entire book of canon-GRRM material every year, which is a far faster pace than we get from his novel writing.

(I've been wondering if we'll actually get more Dunk & Egg stories or not, too.  My copy of Knight of the Seven Kingdoms (the book compilation of the three novellas) has a sort of afterward by GRRM which says there's more to come, and I believe GRRM wrote that afterward fairly recently (spring of 2015, as I recall), but I just don't know if we'll ever see those stories, especially if GRRM is absolutely determined to finish Book 7 of the main series)

[Dragon in the North]

8 hours ago, Cron said:

I think you're right that we'll never get Book 7, and I'm fine with that if it means GRRM can and will devote a lot more time to the show.

The best way for us to get as much ASOIAF out of GRRM's brain as we can as quickly as possible is not by gettng a book once every 6 or 7 years (and maybe not even that often, given his age). but rather, for GRRM to become the top show runner, plotting out the show  (and spin-offs) in broad strokes, and letting others help him fill in the finer details.  In this way, we could get the equivalent of an entire book of canon-GRRM material every year, which is a far faster pace than we get from his novel writing.

(I've been wondering if we'll actually get more Dunk & Egg stories or not, too.  My copy of Knight of the Seven Kingdoms (the book compilation of the three novellas) has a sort of afterward by GRRM which says there's more to come, and I believe GRRM wrote that afterward fairly recently (spring of 2015, as I recall), but I just don't know if we'll ever see those stories, especially if GRRM is absolutely determined to finish Book 7 of the main series)

Making GRRM the head of the entire production would be a huge mistake. A television production has hundreds of moving parts, and even with people assisting him, being top showrunner would mean he's responsible for all of it. It takes the man approximately five years to put out one book. I would hate to think how long we would have to wait for the next season to come out if Martin was in charge. The very best you could hope for is if GRRM stays on as a creative consultant, and nothing more. As for me, I don't really care either way. Even as we move passed the books, GOT is still my favorite show currently on television. I will still read the books if/when they come out, but I've lost my enthusiasm for them.

[Cron]

4 hours ago, Dragon in the North said:

Making GRRM the head of the entire production would be a huge mistake. A television production has hundreds of moving parts, and even with people assisting him, being top showrunner would mean he's responsible for all of it. It takes the man approximately five years to put out one book. I would hate to think how long we would have to wait for the next season to come out if Martin was in charge. The very best you could hope for is if GRRM stays on as a creative consultant, and nothing more. As for me, I don't really care either way. Even as we move passed the books, GOT is still my favorite show currently on television. I will still read the books if/when they come out, but I've lost my enthusiasm for them.

i am not suggesting that GRRM allow himself to be overwhelmed by the minutiae and innumerable fine details of the production itself.

Far, far from it.

I would keep the entire existing structure in place beneath him, including D&D.   GRRM would be "master storyteller" at the top of the pyramid, whose SOLE responsibility would be mapping out the story in VERY broad strokes, probably via outlines. I would also give GRRM total "veto power" and creative control (So that it is ALL canon-GRRM.  Nothing happens unless GRRM approves it, period.)

Bottom line:  I trust GRRM to tell this story more than I trust anyone else, by far.  My suggestion is not impractical. My goodness, he does not even have to type if he doesn't want to, just sit there and talk about plot storylines, while others take notes, then write it up to fill in more detail, then submit it to GRRM for reading and approval or rejection or fine tuning or whatever.

It's also noteworthy that, as you probably know, GRRM is VERY familiar with this process.  He has done scripts/screenplays for quite a few t.v. episodes, including, as I recall, 1 episode for each of the 1st four seasons of GOT.

Keep the entire production structure in place below GRRM, and let GRRM float above it all, doing what he does best and what, in my opinion, NO ONE else does as well as him.

[Meera of Tarth]

6 hours ago, Cron said:

i am not suggesting that GRRM allow himself to be overwhelmed by the minutiae and innumerable fine details of the production itself.

Far, far from it.

I would keep the entire existing structure in place beneath him, including D&D.   GRRM would be "master storyteller" at the top of the pyramid, whose SOLE responsibility would be mapping out the story in VERY broad strokes, probably via outlines. I would also give GRRM total "veto power" and creative control (So that it is ALL canon-GRRM.  Nothing happens unless GRRM approves it, period.)

Bottom line:  I trust GRRM to tell this story more than I trust anyone else, by far.  My suggestion is not impractical. My goodness, he does not even have to type if he doesn't want to, just sit there and talk about plot storylines, while others take notes, then write it up to fill in more detail, then submit it to GRRM for reading and approval or rejection or fine tuning or whatever.

It's also noteworthy that, as you probably know, GRRM is VERY familiar with this process.  He has done scripts/screenplays for quite a few t.v. episodes, including, as I recall, 1 episode for each of the 1st four seasons of GOT.

Keep the entire production structure in place below GRRM, and let GRRM float above it all, doing what he does best and what, in my opinion, NO ONE else does as well as him.

that would be a Great idea and this is exactly what they should have done on order to save the show. Unfortunately it won't happen I guess.

but since next season wil tell the ending of the story and they have always Said it will be the same than the one in the books and also we know that aDoS won't be released before......Martin should be the headmaster of it. After all, it will be about the real ending of his story.

[Cron]

3 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

that would be a Great idea and this is exactly what they should have done on order to save the show. Unfortunately it won't happen I guess.

but since next season wil tell the ending of the story and they have always Said it will be the same than the one in the books and also we know that aDoS won't be released before......Martin should be the headmaster of it. After all, it will be about the real ending of his story.

Oh, this is interesting.

Are you saying you expect the WW/Others threat to be done at the end of Winds of Winter, and Dream of Spring is basically an "epilogue book"?  Or did I get confused?  (These are sincere questions, I don't know the answers.)

[Meera of Tarth]

6 minutes ago, Cron said:

Oh, this is interesting.

Are you saying you expect the WW/Others threat to be done at the end of Winds of Winter, and Dream of Spring is basically an "epilogue book"?  Or did I get confused?  (These are sincere questions, I don't know the answers.)

No, I'm saying that s8 will very probably cover the ending of ados: the ending of a series of books that began in the 90's.

The author should be in charge of that because I don't think it's likely that ADOS is poublished in 2018. So, the normal thing in this special circumstance would be that the creator of the story wrote or supervised the ending, because while the showrunners know it, it's the only opportunity the creator has to actually tell it.

It's ver clear that Martin has not been helping in the 5th and 6th season, at least in script terms. The minimum should be writing at least one or two episodes of the final season.

But what I was referring is that the damage is already done to the show. He should have been supervising it before or the showrunners having been more faithful to the story. A more collaborative task I'd say because the inventions have been horrible.

[Cron]

10 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

No, I'm saying that s8 will very probably cover the ending of ados: the ending of a series of books that began in the 90's.

The author should be in charge of that because I don't think it's likely that ADOS is poublished in 2018. So, the normal thing in this special circumstance would be that the creator of the story wrote or supervised the ending, because while the showrunners know it, it's the only opportunity the creator has to actually tell it.

Oh, yes, I agree.  I think there's zero chance A Dream of Spring will be published in 2018.  I think 2024 (or never) is much, much more likely.

10 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

It's ver clear that Martin has not been helping in the 5th and 6th season, at least in script terms. The minimum should be writing at least one or two episodes of the final season.

Yes, my strong memory is that after Season 4 GRRM said he was backing away from the show almost completely so he could finish Winds of Winter.

10 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

But what I was referring is that the damage is already done to the show. He should have been supervising it before or the showrunners having been more faithful to the story. A more collaborative task I'd say because the inventions have been horrible.

Oh yes, I could not possibly agree more with this.

(a) At times, they seem to me to have gotten the idea that they can tell the story better than GRRM. I disagree.

(b) If they had simply stayed true to the source material (and padded it with scenes consistent with the books), they could have squeezed 6 or 7 seasons out of the first 5 books.  But no.   Still, I love the show, and the books.  Just have to separate them somewhat in my mind.

[Meera of Tarth]

9 hours ago, Cron said:

Oh, yes, I agree.  I think there's zero chance A Dream of Spring will be published in 2018.  I think 2024 (or never) is much, much more likely.

 

Oh yes, I could not possibly agree more with this.

(a) At times, they seem to me to have gotten the idea that they can tell the story better than GRRM. I disagree.

(b) If they had simply stayed true to the source material (and padded it with scenes consistent with the books), they could have squeezed 6 or 7 seasons out of the first 5 books.  But no.   Still, I love the show, and the books.  Just have to separate them somewhat in my mind.

Exactly. I still enjoy some storylines from the show (Arya, Sam, Bran...) at this point but the rest I have a hard time watching them; but I'll still watch the entire show until it finishes.

Quote

Yes, my strong memory is that after Season 4 GRRM said he was backing away from the show almost completely so he could finish Winds of Winter.

And at this exact moment everything started collapsing.

[Cron]

3 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Exactly. I still enjoy some storylines from the show (Arya, Sam, Bran...) at this point but the rest I have a hard time watching them; but I'll still watch the entire show until it finishes.

Should be interesting to finally learn how much of what we've seen on the show is canon-GRRM and how much isn't.

Do you plan on buying and reading the new book as soon as you reasonably can?

Quote

And at this exact moment everything started collapsing.

Well, there are some things in the show that I think are realy well done...but yeah, not surprisingly, my biggest beefs with the show are when they wander from the source material.  Some changes are necessary for practical reasons (e.g., CGI costs), but when they change the plot and story it makes me think they think they can tell the story better than GRRM...but I don't believe they can.

[MoreOrLess]

Again my guess would be that Martin has probably had a firmer grasp of the "end game" for much longer and its more the way in which he moves his pieces into position for that which is more fluid so the show and the books will likely converge again as we get towards the end.

[Meera of Tarth]

2 hours ago, Cron said:

Should be interesting to finally learn how much of what we've seen on the show is canon-GRRM and how much isn't.

Do you plan on buying and reading the new book as soon as you reasonably can?

Well, there are some things in the show that I think are realy well done...but yeah, not surprisingly, my biggest beefs with the show are when they wander from the source material.  Some changes are necessary for practical reasons (e.g., CGI costs), but when they change the plot and story it makes me think they think they can tell the story better than GRRM...but I don't believe they can.

as soon as it is published yes!

[Dragon in the North]

On October 22, 2016 at 3:07 AM, Cron said:

i am not suggesting that GRRM allow himself to be overwhelmed by the minutiae and innumerable fine details of the production itself.

Far, far from it.

I would keep the entire existing structure in place beneath him, including D&D.   GRRM would be "master storyteller" at the top of the pyramid, whose SOLE responsibility would be mapping out the story in VERY broad strokes, probably via outlines. I would also give GRRM total "veto power" and creative control (So that it is ALL canon-GRRM.  Nothing happens unless GRRM approves it, period.)

Bottom line:  I trust GRRM to tell this story more than I trust anyone else, by far.  My suggestion is not impractical. My goodness, he does not even have to type if he doesn't want to, just sit there and talk about plot storylines, while others take notes, then write it up to fill in more detail, then submit it to GRRM for reading and approval or rejection or fine tuning or whatever.

It's also noteworthy that, as you probably know, GRRM is VERY familiar with this process.  He has done scripts/screenplays for quite a few t.v. episodes, including, as I recall, 1 episode for each of the 1st four seasons of GOT.

Keep the entire production structure in place below GRRM, and let GRRM float above it all, doing what he does best and what, in my opinion, NO ONE else does as well as him.

What you're suggesting is more in line with my idea. Writing scripts for the show isn't the only responsibility of a showrunner. A showrunner is in charge of the entire television production. That's why D&D are present at each filming site. It's their job to oversee everything. I think GRRM as a creative consultant may have worked to a certain extent, but being completely faithful to the books became impossible the moment Martin wrote AFFC/ADWD. The plot simply doesn't progress enough in those books to justify a word for word adaptation. Going off another point you made, D&D don't stray from the source material because "they have gotten the idea they can tell the story better than GRRM." They stray because the requirements of the medium demand them to stray. Adaptation does mean "change" after all. 

[Stannis is the man....nis]

39 minutes ago, Dragon in the North said:

What you're suggesting is more in line with my idea. Writing scripts for the show isn't the only responsibility of a showrunner. A showrunner is in charge of the entire television production. That's why D&D are present at each filming site. It's their job to oversee everything. I think GRRM as a creative consultant may have worked to a certain extent, but being completely faithful to the books became impossible the moment Martin wrote AFFC/ADWD. The plot simply doesn't progress enough in those books to justify a word for word adaptation. Going off another point you made, D&D don't stray from the source material because "they have gotten the idea they can tell the story better than GRRM." They stray because the requirements of the medium demand them to stray. Adaptation does mean "change" after all. 

Ok to that I say look at this season where because they skipped so much from AFFC/ADWD in S5 they had go back and put it in in S6, Jamie/Brienne in the RL, a Second battle of Ice with Jon in Stannis' place, the BWB returning, and Euron 

[Farerb]

1 hour ago, Dragon in the North said:

What you're suggesting is more in line with my idea. Writing scripts for the show isn't the only responsibility of a showrunner. A showrunner is in charge of the entire television production. That's why D&D are present at each filming site. It's their job to oversee everything. I think GRRM as a creative consultant may have worked to a certain extent, but being completely faithful to the books became impossible the moment Martin wrote AFFC/ADWD. The plot simply doesn't progress enough in those books to justify a word for word adaptation. Going off another point you made, D&D don't stray from the source material because "they have gotten the idea they can tell the story better than GRRM." They stray because the requirements of the medium demand them to stray. Adaptation does mean "change" after all. 

Yes, Adaptation means "change". However, changing characters personalities and just moving them from plot point to plot point do not make an adaptation, and just because the characters have the same name, it doesn't mean they are the same characters. Regardless of what anyone thinks about GoT (good, bad, whatever), GoT is not an adaptation of ASOIAF anymore and hasn't been since season 5 started (more or less).

[Cron]

10 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

as soon as it is published yes!

Nice.

And so many questions will finally be answered.

These boards should get REALLY active once that book is released!

[Dragon in the North]

1 hour ago, Stannis is the man....nis said:

Ok to that I say look at this season where because they skipped so much from AFFC/ADWD in S5 they had go back and put it in in S6, Jamie/Brienne in the RL, a Second battle of Ice with Jon in Stannis' place, the BWB returning, and Euron 

The vast majority of the season was new material, with material from AFFC/ADWD taking up only about 10%. Season 6 moved the story forward a lot further than those two books did.

[Dragon in the North]

48 minutes ago, farerb said:

Yes, Adaptation means "change". However, changing characters personalities and just moving them from plot point to plot point do not make an adaptation, and just because the characters have the same name, it doesn't mean they are the same characters. Regardless of what anyone thinks about GoT (good, bad, whatever), GoT is not an adaptation of ASOIAF anymore and hasn't been since season 5 started (more or less).

Of course GOT is still an adaptation of ASOIAF. The show still takes many elements from the book series, therefore it will always be considered one. Have you heard of the Bourne Identity? The movie is only loosely based on the book, but is still called an adaptation.