Is There Anything On The Show That You Think Is Better Than The Books?

[Richard Writhen]

16 hours ago, Cron said:

Yeah, i agree with both of those.  Bronn too, at least to me (Bronn was okay in the books, but I really like his expanded role in the show, and the actor does a great job, I think)

[dsug]

oh bronn is a blessing. he's just some scuzball in the books, but the show really utilizes him and he's fucking hilarious.

also, olenna's expanded role and therefore extended dialogue is just great. it's rare for a character in a drama to genuinely make me laugh that much without like taking me out of it. 

[naossano]

I have watched the show before i've read the book so it might influence my views on it.

- Interactions between varys and littlefinger,  loras and renly, robert and renly, etc... Basically interactions between non-pov characters. ( although, I like the pov thing)

- Renly and Loras being an actual thing. It is too subtle for its own good in the books.

- Not always that way but some dialogs, situation, worked better after they moved it or switched characters. Oberyn speech about baby tyrion works better before he accept to be is champion than right when they see each other for the first time. Sam slaying his first ww to defend gilly. Theon executing rodrick instead of some random dude. Those are small things but they seems more fitting on an emotional level.

- There is so many characters, which I like in the book. But by reducing the herd, the show gave more importance to some of those minor characters. Sometime it worked, like with thorne or loras. Sometime it didn't, like with Ramsay. Although, the books have shown numerous times that they could increase the importance of some minors characters as time goes on ( roose, balon swan, gyles, Bowen marsh , bracken and blackwood etc...)

- Less magic stuff.

- Tommen. Tommen isn't even aware of what is going on in the books. He just a small kid that wants to play with cats and sign things. He is less complaining than robyn, but is more a thing than a person, plot-wise. I loved what they tried to do with him him the show. He was pretty much the most interesting thing in king's landing in season 5 and 6. The kid was wise beyond his years, but still a kid, naive and idealistic, trying to find his way in the court, to have everyone make peace, while everyone was trying to use him for their own gain. In the end, thethe person that betrayed him wasn't his wife or the shady priest, but his own mother. The safest death of the show. I doubt they could make such a plot  with the current book tommen, unless they add a some years gap, but it wouldn't fit with margaery current trial.

- Some scene weren't so different but worked better on the screen, like the defense of black water, the red wedding, sandor fights. some action scene carrying heavy impact and rythme. Speaking of scene, high praise for hardome.

- Kevan actually got to run the council for a season, too bad that he did less in a season, than he did In a single chapter of the book.

 

[Cron]

On 11/8/2016 at 6:42 PM, dsug said:

oh bronn is a blessing. he's just some scuzball in the books, but the show really utilizes him and he's fucking hilarious.

also, olenna's expanded role and therefore extended dialogue is just great. it's rare for a character in a drama to genuinely make me laugh that much without like taking me out of it. 

Good point about Olenna.

I should probably give her more credit, as I do agree that show-Olenna is better than book-Olenna.

[Cron]

On 11/8/2016 at 11:33 PM, naossano said:

I have watched the show before i've read the book so it might influence my views on it.

- Interactions between varys and littlefinger,  loras and renly, robert and renly, etc... Basically interactions between non-pov characters. ( although, I like the pov thing)

- Renly and Loras being an actual thing. It is too subtle for its own good in the books.

- Not always that way but some dialogs, situation, worked better after they moved it or switched characters. Oberyn speech about baby tyrion works better before he accept to be is champion than right when they see each other for the first time. Sam slaying his first ww to defend gilly. Theon executing rodrick instead of some random dude. Those are small things but they seems more fitting on an emotional level.

- There is so many characters, which I like in the book. But by reducing the herd, the show gave more importance to some of those minor characters. Sometime it worked, like with thorne or loras. Sometime it didn't, like with Ramsay. Although, the books have shown numerous times that they could increase the importance of some minors characters as time goes on ( roose, balon swan, gyles, Bowen marsh , bracken and blackwood etc...)

- Less magic stuff.

- Tommen. Tommen isn't even aware of what is going on in the books. He just a small kid that wants to play with cats and sign things. He is less complaining than robyn, but is more a thing than a person, plot-wise. I loved what they tried to do with him him the show. He was pretty much the most interesting thing in king's landing in season 5 and 6. The kid was wise beyond his years, but still a kid, naive and idealistic, trying to find his way in the court, to have everyone make peace, while everyone was trying to use him for their own gain. In the end, thethe person that betrayed him wasn't his wife or the shady priest, but his own mother. The safest death of the show. I doubt they could make such a plot  with the current book tommen, unless they add a some years gap, but it wouldn't fit with margaery current trial.

- Some scene weren't so different but worked better on the screen, like the defense of black water, the red wedding, sandor fights. some action scene carrying heavy impact and rythme. Speaking of scene, high praise for hardome.

- Kevan actually got to run the council for a season, too bad that he did less in a season, than he did In a single chapter of the book.

 

Wow, lots of great food for thought there.

The Tommen stuff was especially interesting, and yeah, I think you're right.  As you basically say, it was made possible by aging him up, which is something nearly everyone prefers in the show (for all the kids) over the books.  Indeed, I'm almost positive I recall reading a quote from GRRM himself that if he had to do it all over, he would not have made the kids so young in the books, either.  (Maybe someone has a quote from GRRM on this, or can correct me if I'm mis-remembering)

Welcome aboard, you seem pretty well versed in the lore, books and show. 

[Cron]

Oh, I've also been wondering about the entire elimination of the Quentyn Martell storyline.

Does anyone here think the show is better cuz it was dropped?

That plot thread was a fairly decent chunk of ADWD, not sure how many chapters, maybe 7 or 8.

In fact, I think it might be the biggest plot thread completely dropped (a close second might be the Arianne Martell stuff in Dorne), or am I forgetting something else???

[Meera of Tarth]

6 hours ago, Cron said:

Oh, I've also been wondering about the entire elimination of the Quentyn Martell storyline.

Does anyone here think the show is better cuz it was dropped?

That plot thread was a fairly decent chunk of ADWD, not sure how many chapters, maybe 7 or 8.

In fact, I think it might be the biggest plot thread completely dropped (a close second might be the Arianne Martell stuff in Dorne), or am I forgetting something else???

LSH  (coughs)

[Cron]

15 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

LSH  (coughs)

Hmmm, very interesting.

I guess it depends on how we look at it.  I think in terms of "number of pages," the Arianne Martell and Quentyn Martell storylines are bigger omissions, but in terms of "impact on the story," you may well be right, especially since (a) Cat is such a major character, and (b) LSH has impacted and may well continue to impact other fairly major characters more (Brienne, possibly Jaime)

Sorry to say, I don't even remember exactly where Brienne was and what she was doing the last time we saw her in the books.  Was she hangin from a tree, or did she get out of that?  Had she sworn to kill Jaime or something?  Can't even recall, cuz the show has changed that so drastically, and I haven't read the books in over five years.

But yeah, that's a strong contender for a major plot omission.  To this day I'm not sure why they did that in the show.  Maybe cuz they thought they'd rather have Beric than Cat?  (My memory is that Beric gave up his final life to resurrect Cat)

[lady_xanax]

I think the aging up of the characters was inevitable; they're not going to have underage actors doing anything with sexual content (thinking of Dany here) and they want to avoid the ridiculous situation of having a twenty-something playing a young teenager. Also the cynic in me says that it gives the filmmakers license to make it more sexy- you can't have an audience being encouraged to perv at teenage girls.

[naossano]

On 11/12/2016 at 3:48 AM, Cron said:

 

In fact, I think it might be the biggest plot thread completely dropped (a close second might be the Arianne Martell stuff in Dorne), or am I forgetting something else???

This would deserves its own thread. So many plot thread were removed or drastically thinned.

[Cron]

On 11/13/2016 at 8:21 PM, naossano said:

This would deserves its own thread. So many plot thread were removed or drastically thinned.

Yeah, I understand it's very debatable.

But in terms of "raw number of pages from the books cut out of the show," I'm thinking the Arianne Martell and Quentyn Martell storylines would have to be strong contenders

I've been thinking about this for a few days now (on and off), and I really can't come up with anything else.

But again, I haven't read the books in over five years, I might be missing something.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Even tho we don’t know if that will be in the books;

Quote

 

You are nobody, the millionth of your name. Queen of Nothing

 

I liked how at least someone did what everyone should had done.

[Dragon in the North]

On November 12, 2016 at 3:48 AM, Cron said:

Oh, I've also been wondering about the entire elimination of the Quentyn Martell storyline.

Does anyone here think the show is better cuz it was dropped?

That plot thread was a fairly decent chunk of ADWD, not sure how many chapters, maybe 7 or 8.

In fact, I think it might be the biggest plot thread completely dropped (a close second might be the Arianne Martell stuff in Dorne), or am I forgetting something else???

I always found Quentyn to be a pointless addition. He doesn't really add anything as a character, and his biggest role seems to be to provide motive and character development to Arianne. I couldn't care less he was dropped. As for Arianne, her role may be bigger in Winds, assuming Aegon has a big part to play. 

 

On November 12, 2016 at 10:36 AM, Meera of Tarth said:

LSH  (coughs)

She appeared in only a handful of pages and her role has been very minimal up to this point. It's unclear how far her plot is going to go or what overall impact she is going to have on the story.

[Meera of Tarth]

40 minutes ago, Dragon in the North said:

She appeared in only a handful of pages and her role has been very minimal up to this point.

Well, the Mountain had a minimal role too.....

Quote

It's unclear how far her plot is going to go or what overall impact she is going to have on the story.

I agree.

[Dragon in the North]

2 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Well, the Mountain had a minimal role too.....

The Mountain killed Oberyn in trial by combat, thus sentencing Tyrion to death, which led to his escape and inevitable meeting with Dany. LSH may play an even bigger role than that, but it's also possible she'll play a very minor role. We won't know for sure until the next book comes out.

[dsug]

4 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Well, the Mountain had a minimal role too.....

I agree.

bringing back the mountain is far different than catelyn. the mountain was a big deal in season four, and bringing him back into the plot was simple because the plot was already full of existing characters. he was simply being added to an already in-progress plot. 

catelyn coming back would be its own completely removed storyline that the show didn't have time for. in the books she hasn't done anything. i wish the show could have done her, but i understand her exclusion. 

the mountain was crucial to cersei's storyline in S4, S6, and to a lesser extent, S5. Cat wouldn't have anything to do with another story. 

[Faint]

The list of such things is exceedingly small but one scene that comes to mind is Pedro Pascal's speech to Peter Dinklage in the latter's jail cell. 

[Cron]

10 hours ago, Dragon in the North said:

I always found Quentyn to be a pointless addition. He doesn't really add anything as a character, and his biggest role seems to be to provide motive and character development to Arianne. I couldn't care less he was dropped. As for Arianne, her role may be bigger in Winds, assuming Aegon has a big part to play. 

 

She appeared in only a handful of pages and her role has been very minimal up to this point. It's unclear how far her plot is going to go or what overall impact she is going to have on the story.

Yeah, i hear you about Quentyn, it's arguable that his story was just misdirection and filler...but maybe not.

I guess I like his story just b/c I have such a fondness for the books (even Brienne's wanderings don't bother me at all, even though I know a lot of people complain about those chapters.  Her story is that of a classic questing knight, and I enjoyed it all.)

Also, part of the reason I wish they had kept Arianne and Quentyn in is b/c I trust GRRM to tell the story, and even though I know we could never get the books on-screen perfectly, and even though some things in the show ARE better to me, I believe that, in general, the closer the show follows the books, the better.  Further, if they had folllowed the books more faithfully, they would not have run out of canon material anywhere near as quickly as they did.

But what's done is done, I suppose.

[Cron]

14 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Even tho we don’t know if that will be in the books;

I liked how at least someone did what everyone should had done.

Refresh my memory, was that what that Dothraki said to Dany early in Season 6?

If so, sounds like you don't like Dany too much.  HAR!!

If so, what are your thoughts on the rumored leaks about her for Season 7?

[Cron]

2 hours ago, Faint said:

The list of such things is exceedingly small but one scene that comes to mind is Pedro Pascal's speech to Peter Dinklage in the latter's jail cell. 

Yeah, great stuff there.

Oberyn was fine in the books, but even better in the show.

How did you like show-Bronn?  (Better than the books, in my opinion)

And show-Pod? (Better than the books, in my opinion)

And Brienne's fight with the Hound in the show? (Better than how Arya and the Hound parted ways in the books, in my opinion)