Is There Anything On The Show That You Think Is Better Than The Books?

[Cron]

On 3/13/2017 at 6:18 AM, Prof. Cecily said:

The Golden Compass has steampunk elements, but probably isn't not pure steampunk. As I said, your mileage may vary.

Blood oranges? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_orange

 

Oranges in the Godfather saga?

http://www.destinationhollywood.com/movies/godfather/feature_oranges.shtml

https://thisruthlessworld.wordpress.com/2015/05/27/what-does-this-movie-mean-the-godfathers-oranges/

And sometimes, an orange is just an orange

http://entertainment.time.com/2012/03/15/the-anniversary-you-cant-refuse-40-things-you-didnt-know-about-the-godfather/slide/whats-with-all-the-oranges/

http://www.jgeoff.com/godfather/oranges.html

 

Ah, another thing I liked better in the series was

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the treatment of the pigeon pie King Joffrey hacks open in the Purple Wedding.I thought the shot to the bloodied carcasses of the birds that didn't survive their liberation to be powerful. In the book, Tyrion's musings about his likelihood of being shit upon are amusing, yes. 

Off to read threads on the treatment of  food in the books and the series!

 

Good stuff.

If you like treatments of food, ASOIAF is definitely the place for you.

GRRM devotes more time to what people are eating or thinking about eating than any other author I've ever read.

HAR!!!

(Having said that, I love his work, of course, and my memory is that he's said a key to good writing is addressing all five senses, so it makes sense that he spends time on "taste")

[Prof. Cecily]

On 3/22/2017 at 8:36 PM, Cron said:

Good stuff.

If you like treatments of food, ASOIAF is definitely the place for you.

GRRM devotes more time to what people are eating or thinking about eating than any other author I've ever read.

HAR!!!

(Having said that, I love his work, of course, and my memory is that he's said a key to good writing is addressing all five senses, so it makes sense that he spends time on "taste")

Oh, yes. 

I love menus and dishes served in the books.

Lots and lots of healthy salads. Rather unexpected in medieval cookery, but most appealing.

And yes, engaging the five senses makes for great reading!

 

[Cron]

On 3/24/2017 at 5:50 AM, Prof. Cecily said:

Oh, yes. 

I love menus and dishes served in the books.

Lots and lots of healthy salads. Rather unexpected in medieval cookery, but most appealing.

And yes, engaging the five senses makes for great reading!

 

Yeah, the only problem is that reading the books makes me hungry.

I don't think I'd eat the lamprey pie, though (which Tyrion seems to love so much)

The lemon cakes would be fine, but I"m more of a meat and potatoes kind of guy.

Give me the trenchers loaded with beef and vegetables, et cetera, or the Hound's great fondness for chicken.

(Man, does the Hound ever LOVE chicken.  That guy has literally killed people for some chicken.)

[Prof. Cecily]

Too true!

Meat and potatoes?

No potatoes en Westeros, Cron.

Mashed neeps (turnips) with your roasted beef!

[Morgana Lannister]

Okay, overall, books are always more detailed and for that, almost by definition better than their show counterparts.

However, okay whether it may be that you prefer a more or less grey version of a character or you loved the rendering of the character by a certain actor etc I think this is possible.

Although I agree with the posters who have said that Tywin's motivations are much better explained in the books; of course, I have to say I loved Charles interaction with Arya.  Although not in the books to me, Tywin was in character, still determined to win "his war" and ruthless but he shows a certain "soft spot" for a spirited young lady.  Cheese, mayhaps, but Charles as Tywin is hard to describe as cheesy.  He recruits her because he appreciates "brains" and "guts". Hell, despite his hatred for his son, Tyrion, he allows him to be Hand temporarily for that reason.  Yes, it would have been nice in the show to see why Tywin became what he was but shows have less opportunities to delve into characters' souls than books...  IMHO those scenes with Arya gave him a little humanity, but not too much, still responsible for Red Wedding etc, just enough as a show goes...

Another one, Tyrion's looks.  Not claiming I like the nicer Tyrion better, just the looks.  Why?  I know George wants to present to us someone totally unable to be fancied.  Yet, his siblings and immediate family are all good looking.  Dwarfism in his case, if you take it scientifically, is statistically likely to be an spontaneous mutation.  He can be a dwarf and a very good looking Lannister, albeit with short limbs.  The condition George describes is the same Peter Dinklage has but whereas Peter is hot in my humble opinion, Tyrion is supposed to have got all the ugly characteristics of the condition.  Not impossible at all and serves the plot because George wanted him unattractive.  Yet, when he got together with D&D considering the show, George specifically asked for Dinklage and they did not audition anyone else...Beauty and the Beast or whatever I think Dinklage, although hey a little Hollywood good looking, is more realistic for the character because at the time the fact that he is a dwarf would have been enough to turn off the ladies, and their fathers when considering marriages.  Granted if he gets true love, ever, depite how George describe it (and not about to argue with George lol) for he is his creation) it gets more poignant.  Still, his siblings are Jaime and Cersei, his mother Joanna, his father Tywin; for all their faults they are all good looking.  Genetically someone like Peter makes more sense to me.

Overall, although I hated some of the plots in the show that weren't in the books, I find the casting very, very good (hey my opinion).

As for omissions, glad Aegon never made it but hey we all love and dislike characters lol and no right and wrong with it.  I wish they had not done the Jeyne Poole/Sansa substitution.  Most people I know hate the Dorne plot, I am pretty ambivalent about it to be honest, nice palaces, can live with it. Overall I hated most things Essos, personal preference, in both books and show.

Now, Shae, who George liked better in the show.  It's complex.  In the show she cares for Tyrion and Sansa and becomes a woman scorned.  In the books she cares for her silks and gold and nothing more.  Not sure on that one.  People accuse the show of "whitewashing" Tyrion.  On this instance I think the books gave him more of a reason for a "murder passionale"

Overall, I don't like all the plots in the show or the books, love some better than others but hey there is so much material in both that if disagreement didn't happen the books/show would not be that great lol

 

 

 

[King Tyrant]

The castong makes the difference in so many ways. I much prefer Show Tywin because of Charles Dance for example. The same for Iain Glen as Jorah. Also, Show Alliser is a far more interesting character.

In terms of storyline, cutting most of Tyrion's ADWD storyline and removing Aegon altogether were for me excellent moves, as was changing wherw Brienne went after leaving KL. Those bits of the books were some of the worst for me. In fact, taking out most of the aimless wandering helped make the story more streamlined.

[The Exiled Septa]

I personally liked that Talisha died at the Red wedding.It seemed more fitting to die along with her king and since I had read the books I wasn't expecting that.

Bronn, Oberyn, Osha , Oleanna. All of them are more intriguing in the show.

******No lady stoneheart ***** 

[Cron]

On 4/21/2017 at 4:49 PM, Morgana Lannister said:

Okay, overall, books are always more detailed and for that, almost by definition better than their show counterparts

Wow, great stuff, I read it all with interest!  Lot of stuff there.

I generally agree with what your opening sentence, which is why I started this topic in the first place.  To me, books are almost always better than a t.v. show or movie (b/c of the level of detail, as you mention) but there are some exceptions, and there are some things in the GOT show that are better than the books to me.

On 4/21/2017 at 4:49 PM, Morgana Lannister said:

However, okay whether it may be that you prefer a more or less grey version of a character or you loved the rendering of the character by a certain actor etc I think this is possible.

Although I agree with the posters who have said that Tywin's motivations are much better explained in the books; of course, I have to say I loved Charles interaction with Arya.  Although not in the books to me, Tywin was in character, still determined to win "his war" and ruthless but he shows a certain "soft spot" for a spirited young lady.  Cheese, mayhaps, but Charles as Tywin is hard to describe as cheesy.  He recruits her because he appreciates "brains" and "guts". Hell, despite his hatred for his son, Tyrion, he allows him to be Hand temporarily for that reason.  Yes, it would have been nice in the show to see why Tywin became what he was but shows have less opportunities to delve into characters' souls than books...  IMHO those scenes with Arya gave him a little humanity, but not too much, still responsible for Red Wedding etc, just enough as a show goes...

Yeah, Tywin is better in the show to me, and his scenes with Arya are a huge part of the reason why.  They humanized him, and made him much more easy to relate to.

On 4/21/2017 at 4:49 PM, Morgana Lannister said:

Another one, Tyrion's looks.  Not claiming I like the nicer Tyrion better, just the looks.  Why?  I know George wants to present to us someone totally unable to be fancied.  Yet, his siblings and immediate family are all good looking.  Dwarfism in his case, if you take it scientifically, is statistically likely to be an spontaneous mutation.  He can be a dwarf and a very good looking Lannister, albeit with short limbs.  The condition George describes is the same Peter Dinklage has but whereas Peter is hot in my humble opinion, Tyrion is supposed to have got all the ugly characteristics of the condition.  Not impossible at all and serves the plot because George wanted him unattractive.  Yet, when he got together with D&D considering the show, George specifically asked for Dinklage and they did not audition anyone else...Beauty and the Beast or whatever I think Dinklage, although hey a little Hollywood good looking, is more realistic for the character because at the time the fact that he is a dwarf would have been enough to turn off the ladies, and their fathers when considering marriages.  Granted if he gets true love, ever, depite how George describe it (and not about to argue with George lol) for he is his creation) it gets more poignant.  Still, his siblings are Jaime and Cersei, his mother Joanna, his father Tywin; for all their faults they are all good looking.  Genetically someone like Peter makes more sense to me.

Interesting, I never thought about a lot of this stuff, but maybe that's b/c I"m a man.  Tyrion's physical attractiveness is not something I've spent much time thinking about.  Clearly, in the books, he's much more disfigured (basically has his nose chopped off, which in the show is just a scar on his cheek) but I hadn't considered it as deeply as I did upon reading your post.  Good food for thought.

On 4/21/2017 at 4:49 PM, Morgana Lannister said:

Overall, although I hated some of the plots in the show that weren't in the books, I find the casting very, very good (hey my opinion).

I agree.  The casting is not perfect, but overall they got a lot more right than they got wrong, which sums up a lot of my thoughts about the show.  Not perfect, but they got a LOT more right than wrong.

On 4/21/2017 at 4:49 PM, Morgana Lannister said:

As for omissions, glad Aegon never made it but hey we all love and dislike characters lol and no right and wrong with it.  I wish they had not done the Jeyne Poole/Sansa substitution.  Most people I know hate the Dorne plot, I am pretty ambivalent about it to be honest, nice palaces, can live with it. Overall I hated most things Essos, personal preference, in both books and show.

Ah, here we part ways.  I was looking forward to seeing Griff and Young Griff, and wish they hadn't been left out.

On the other hand, we agree about the shoehorning of Sansa into Jeyne Poole's storyline, which I found absolutely appalling, the single worst thing about the entire show series.

And I'm a lot more relaxed about the Dorne stuff than most people, but maybe that's cuz' I love scenes with Jaime and Bronn so much.  I think they complement each other extremely well, and I'm never bored when they are on-screen together.  (It cracks me up how Bronn digs into Jaime, and gives him garbage that Jaime would kill just about anybody else for.  I like how Bronn is good friends with both the Lannister brothers, even though Tyrion and Jaime are so different from each other.

On 4/21/2017 at 4:49 PM, Morgana Lannister said:

Now, Shae, who George liked better in the show.  It's complex.  In the show she cares for Tyrion and Sansa and becomes a woman scorned.  In the books she cares for her silks and gold and nothing more.  Not sure on that one.  People accuse the show of "whitewashing" Tyrion.  On this instance I think the books gave him more of a reason for a "murder passionale"

Oh, that's interesting.  GRRM likes show-Shae better than book-Shae?  I did not know that.  I guess I'd have to agree, though.

On 4/21/2017 at 4:49 PM, Morgana Lannister said:

Overall, I don't like all the plots in the show or the books, love some better than others but hey there is so much material in both that if disagreement didn't happen the books/show would not be that great lol

Yeah, it'd be pretty boring here if we all agreed with each other all the time.

 

HARRR!!!

 

[Cron]

On 4/22/2017 at 7:23 AM, King Tyrant said:

The castong makes the difference in so many ways. I much prefer Show Tywin because of Charles Dance for example. The same for Iain Glen as Jorah. Also, Show Alliser is a far more interesting character.

In terms of storyline, cutting most of Tyrion's ADWD storyline and removing Aegon altogether were for me excellent moves, as was changing wherw Brienne went after leaving KL. Those bits of the books were some of the worst for me. In fact, taking out most of the aimless wandering helped make the story more streamlined.

Great food for thought, but have you re-read ADWD?

A lot of that stuff that seemed to make the story drag was better on a re-read, for me.

The first time I read ADWD, I was anxious to get on with the main story regarding the characters I already knew and loved so much, but on a re-read, b/c I already knew what happened to those other characters, I was able to savor and enjoy some of the other stuff you talk about a lot more.

[Cron]

On 4/30/2017 at 0:45 PM, Valedina said:

I personally liked that Talisha died at the Red wedding.It seemed more fitting to die along with her king and since I had read the books I wasn't expecting that.

Bronn, Oberyn, Osha , Oleanna. All of them are more intriguing in the show.

******No lady stoneheart ***** 

Interesting.

Personally, I preferred Jeyne Westerling in the books, and how she survived. I prefer that Robb's line continue for future story-telling.

I agree with all the rest, though.  Bronn is MUCH better in the show (he's just kind of "there" in the books for me), and the same for Oberyn, Osha and Olenna.

Thanks for contributing!

[Lady Sansa's Direwolf]

As with others, love the Tywin/Arya relationship. Loved it when he told her how he saw his own daughter in her. 

Also liked that Maester Aemon got to die an old man in his own bed rather than during an ill-taken sea voyage.

I have no problem with Bronn increased role, but it could just be the way Jerome Oliver plays the part. I do however object to the increased Ellaria role and the way the entire Dorne story line was butchered. Sure they gave more time because Indira Varya is a great actor, but in doing so the short-shifted Alexander Siddig, another great actor.

Jon being at Hardhome, so he knows the power of his enemy was awesome. It will help in the wars to come.

Didn't like the Arya/Waif TransBraavos triathlon. No one with gut injuries would have been able to do what Arya did, drugged or not. It was a great action scene and would have been better to served to be HOW Arya got stabbed, not what happened during her recovery.

[Morgana Lannister]

On 5/28/2017 at 11:12 PM, Cron said:

Wow, great stuff, I read it all with interest!  Lot of stuff there.

I generally agree with what your opening sentence, which is why I started this topic in the first place.  To me, books are almost always better than a t.v. show or movie (b/c of the level of detail, as you mention) but there are some exceptions, and there are some things in the GOT show that are better than the books to me.

Yeah, Tywin is better in the show to me, and his scenes with Arya are a huge part of the reason why.  They humanized him, and made him much more easy to relate to.

Interesting, I never thought about a lot of this stuff, but maybe that's b/c I"m a man.  Tyrion's physical attractiveness is not something I've spent much time thinking about.  Clearly, in the books, he's much more disfigured (basically has his nose chopped off, which in the show is just a scar on his cheek) but I hadn't considered it as deeply as I did upon reading your post.  Good food for thought.

I agree.  The casting is not perfect, but overall they got a lot more right than they got wrong, which sums up a lot of my thoughts about the show.  Not perfect, but they got a LOT more right than wrong.

Ah, here we part ways.  I was looking forward to seeing Griff and Young Griff, and wish they hadn't been left out.

On the other hand, we agree about the shoehorning of Sansa into Jeyne Poole's storyline, which I found absolutely appalling, the single worst thing about the entire show series.

And I'm a lot more relaxed about the Dorne stuff than most people, but maybe that's cuz' I love scenes with Jaime and Bronn so much.  I think they complement each other extremely well, and I'm never bored when they are on-screen together.  (It cracks me up how Bronn digs into Jaime, and gives him garbage that Jaime would kill just about anybody else for.  I like how Bronn is good friends with both the Lannister brothers, even though Tyrion and Jaime are so different from each other.

Oh, that's interesting.  GRRM likes show-Shae better than book-Shae?  I did not know that.  I guess I'd have to agree, though.

Yeah, it'd be pretty boring here if we all agreed with each other all the time.

 

HARRR!!!

 

Love your commeents!!!!  the agreement and disagreement

[Wolfgirly]

On 14/08/2016 at 7:50 PM, Future Null Infinity said:

They did better with the age of the characters, it was discussed in the forum, and I'm with opinion that their age in the show made the story more believable

less prophecies (less spoilers!!)

JetPacks/teleporting

 

 

 

Yes, I agree with that.

Reading the books, I only imagine the characters being older than in the books.I picture Dany being sort of 18 in the beginning and not younger. With others too. Many key characters are kids, although some are meant to be children like Bran, Rickon and Arya, I find that eww when people like Robb, Dany, Jon are kids in the books. I always picture them as young adults.

[Houseofthedirewolves]

Yes, I prefer the way the characters are aged up in the show because GRRM's tendency to go into detail about a thirteen/fourteen year old's sex life makes my stomach churn and gives me bad vibes. Like why so much details, George?

I also prefer Daenerys/Khal Drogo's wedding night in the show. Why you ask, I already wrote a whole essay about it. Let me know if I should post it.

I'm not into young girl/grown man relationship so I'm glad that other than two kisses, Littlefinger's grooming of Sansa was cut out from the show. 

I like that the show replaced Dontos with Shae to be the friend that Sansa had in Kingslanding. Although both characters had their faults. Dontos was lusting after Sansa even while trying to help her. While Shae was jealous of Sansa even though she genuinely cared.

Chaos is a ladder. One of my favorite. I would like for Littlefinger to give a speech like that in the books... oh wait, all of his speeches to Sansa while in the Vale fall under the same line.

I really loved Lady Stark's Motherless Child speech. The show gave her a conscious. 

Finally, the fact that Sansa and Margaery's friendship was more genuine in the show. I really enjoyed that. 

[Prof. Cecily]

On 5/29/2017 at 6:40 PM, Cron said:

Interesting.

Personally, I preferred Jeyne Westerling in the books, and how she survived. I prefer that Robb's line continue for future story-telling.

I agree with all the rest, though.  Bronn is MUCH better in the show (he's just kind of "there" in the books for me), and the same for Oberyn, Osha and Olenna.

Thanks for contributing!

How does Robb's line continue?

I thought Jeyne's mum had been administering her a contraceptive herbal preparation on Lord Tywin's orders/suggestion.

Any chance of TWOW being published, so we can compare seasons 5 and 6 with GRRM's original thoughts?

Or will TWOW be shaped by D&D's concepts?

 

[Gaz0680]

22 hours ago, Prof. Cecily said:

How does Robb's line continue?

I thought Jeyne's mum had been administering her a contraceptive herbal preparation on Lord Tywin's orders/suggestion.

Any chance of TWOW being published, so we can compare seasons 5 and 6 with GRRM's original thoughts?

Or will TWOW be shaped by D&D's concepts?

 

Everything GRRM writes for westeros/essos now will be shaped by pressures from the financial interests in the phwnomenon his works have become. I dont believe at all any further published material will be entirely his own vision or original plan.

[Prof. Cecily]

38 minutes ago, Gaz0680 said:

Everything GRRM writes for westeros/essos now will be shaped by pressures from the financial interests in the phwnomenon his works have become. I dont believe at all any further published material will be entirely his own vision or original plan.

Well, some wise person once wrote "You never piss in the same river twice".

I'm just a bit reminded of a side story in Douglas Adam's four book trilogy, "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the the Galaxy", where the Guide tells us about how the Campaign for Real Time and the story of the poet Lallafa

Quote

Lallafa was a poet who wrote some poems called the 'The Tales Of The Long Land'. They were so amazing that nobody can read them for long without having to go for a walk around the block.

Then one day, years later, some correcting fluid manufacturers time traveled and made him rich. He never got round to writing his poems but that was easily solved. Lallafa was simply packed off to a forest one day, given a later book of his poems and copied them out.

http://hitchhikers.wikia.com/wiki/Lallafa

I'm still going to have a wonderful reading ASoIaF and discussing it for years to come!

[snow is the man]

Arya and the hound together were awesome. I like roose bolton being closer to rob which made the red wedding seem more like a shock

Bron is way better in the show..

the way they aged the characters up. When dany and drogo are together in the books you forget for a second (when they are more in love then her being a baby maker and him only seeing her at night to....) and feel wrong. Jon's story seems more real with this too.

mormont is better

Cersei is more interesting in the show and doesn't make me cringe like in the books where she seems like an idiot half the time)

Tywin but I think that has to do with his actor more then anything.

the hound is better

sansa in the latter seasons.

Ramsey and his whole arc. Him being with sansa makes more sense to me.

vary's and tyrion are both better.

 

Personally I love both and find they both have their strengths and weakness's.

 

[Cron]

On 5/31/2017 at 8:18 PM, Morgana Lannister said:

Love your commeents!!!!  the agreement and disagreement

Only about a month a half now until the new season, and then we'll have LOTS more new stuff to talk about here!!

[Cron]

On 6/1/2017 at 2:26 AM, Prof. Cecily said:

How does Robb's line continue?

I thought Jeyne's mum had been administering her a contraceptive herbal preparation on Lord Tywin's orders/suggestion.

Any chance of TWOW being published, so we can compare seasons 5 and 6 with GRRM's original thoughts?

Or will TWOW be shaped by D&D's concepts?

 

Here's my understanding:

There's a LOT of talk about whether Jeyne Westerling is really pregnant or not, and whether her mother was really giving her a contraceptive or not.

In fact, it relates to the question of whether Jaime Lannister actually met the REAL Jeyne Westerling (there are reasons to believe he did not, but rather, that the Jeyne Westerling that Jaime Lannister met was an imposter, set forth by the Westerlings to hide the fact that Jeyne is really pregnant with Robb Stark's heir, who would be a threat to Lannister power.  it's too much for me to recall it all or type it all, but in my strong opinion if you look into it you should be able to find very detailed discussions of these theories.  One "clue," for example, as I recall, is said to be the fact that when Cat Stark meets Jeyne we are told (in Cat's POV) that Jeyne has broad, child-bearing hips, but when Jaime meets "Jeyne" we are told, through Jaime's POV, that Jeyne has narrow hips, which is not only different from what Cat told us, but also an odd thing for a man (Jaime) to ever notice or think about in the first place.

Again, in sum, the theory is that the REAL Jeyne Westerling is in hiding, and pregnant with Robb Stark's child.

(By the way, this would also be VERY much in line with other sub-plots in ASOIAF as well, as it would NOT be the first time an imposter was passed off as someone else.  Two examples:   Varys claims to have used an imposter in place of baby Aegon to fool the Lannisters, and Jeyne Poole is used an imposter in place of Arya Stark)