Is There Anything On The Show That You Think Is Better Than The Books?

[hewman]

For me it’s the music. Really great sountrack especially the songs of fire and blood. My favorite is “Khaleesi”, though “The Spoils of War 1” is catching up fast mostly because of the way the Dothraki and Lannister themes intertwine with the Targ’s.

Aw and I forgot to mention the way they ended the Rains of Castamere with no music during the credits. If I were humming the music while reading the books, that ending would have certainly left me hummingless.

[StepStark]

On 10/10/2017 at 2:00 AM, A Bong of Ice and Fire said:

StepStark’s commitment to hating Game of Thrones is truly impressive to behold. I’ve never seen anyone expend so much time, energy, and effort on something they so wholly despise since Hitler and the Jews. 

I don't know if that was supposed to be funny or whatever, but in truth, it doesn't take much time, energy or effort to criticize this stupid show. Especially in the last few seasons when it became an unintended parody.

[Apoplexy]

On 10/16/2017 at 5:36 AM, hewman said:

For me it’s the music. Really great sountrack especially the songs of fire and blood. My favorite is “Khaleesi”, though “The Spoils of War 1” is catching up fast mostly because of the way the Dothraki and Lannister themes intertwine with the Targ’s.

Aw and I forgot to mention the way they ended the Rains of Castamere with no music during the credits. If I were humming the music while reading the books, that ending would have certainly left me hummingless.

I absolutely love the music too. I remember watching the first episode of the first season in 2011 being mesmerized by the title track. It fitted so perfectly with theme of the show. Rains of Castamere and Bear and the maiden fair are my favorite.

[StepStark]

Isn't it hilarious that in a thread titled "Is There Anything On The Show That You Think Is Better Than The Books?", people discuss - music! Because yes, the soundtrack in the books is definitely not as good as the one in the show! Only those stupid book-purists can disagree with that!

Internet, you never fail to amaze.

[Eggegg]

I actually thought the music was better in the books, I was humming along as I read it.. 

Anyway, I could have listed out a page of things that the show was doing better than the books, maybe a few seasons ago. But now I feel like my memory has been debased by the last few seasons. Its like the show has given birth to the mutant child of itself and is eating its own tail.

 

[alienarea]

The show will have an end. The books ... mayhaps.

 

[Wild Bill]

On 10/19/2017 at 6:59 AM, StepStark said:

I don't know if that was supposed to be funny or whatever, but in truth, it doesn't take much time, energy or effort to criticize this stupid show. Especially in the last few seasons when it became an unintended parody.

Am I supposed to construe something here?

I question your use of "unintended". Though I give the showrunners a great walk, sort of kind of maybe... And feel they mismanaged the plot arches a little bit, or a bit, or a lotta bit...

Nonetheless, ummm, in the context of mismanagement, they have managed to, apply, all of the best principles of Melrose Place and Beverly Hills, 90210! I consider this no mean achievement. Totally unexpected, and consistent with grrm's trope-defying approach. Bravo!

[hewman]

On 10/27/2017 at 10:46 PM, StepStark said:

Isn't it hilarious that in a thread titled "Is There Anything On The Show That You Think Is Better Than The Books?", people discuss - music! Because yes, the soundtrack in the books is definitely not as good as the one in the show! Only those stupid book-purists can disagree with that!

Internet, you never fail to amaze.

You’re absolutely right!

[jcmontea]

On 10/28/2017 at 1:39 PM, alienarea said:

The show will have an end. The books ... mayhaps.

 

 

On 10/27/2017 at 3:46 PM, StepStark said:

Isn't it hilarious that in a thread titled "Is There Anything On The Show That You Think Is Better Than The Books?", people discuss - music! Because yes, the soundtrack in the books is definitely not as good as the one in the show! Only those stupid book-purists can disagree with that!

Internet, you never fail to amaze.

By the same token then you can’t argue anything is better in the books that depends on inner thoughts of the characters since the show can’t do that and on anything you can do in a novel versus a screenplay.

To be intellectually consistent you are either analyzing the books and everhthing that comes with that and the show and everything that comes with that or just the very narrow portions where there is an actual overlap between two very different story telling mediums. 

Music is actually a big part of the experience of shows and movies. Take away music and they are just not as effective storytelling mediums. 

[MinscS2]

10 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

Music is actually a big part of the experience of shows and movies. Take away music and they are just not as effective storytelling mediums. 

Or the wrong kind of music.
Nothing makes a horror/intense scene scarier/more intense than some happy music. 
Just imagine the Field of Fire in S7E4 or the Wightraid in S7E6 with the Benny Hill Theme in the background instead.
 

 

[hewman]

I kinda get Step Stark’s point. Saying the music is the what makes the show better is like saying the paper makes the books better, but he is partly wrong: the books are better than the show, I agree, but without the show no one would have commissioned the soundtrack leaving us without music which I maintain is some of the best I ever listened.

Maybe on the audio books they coul synchronize the humming with the text. Maybe..

[StepStark]

55 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

By the same token then you can’t argue anything is better in the books that depends on inner thoughts of the characters since the show can’t do that and on anything you can do in a novel versus a screenplay.

To be intellectually consistent you are either analyzing the books and everhthing that comes with that and the show and everything that comes with that or just the very narrow portions where there is an actual overlap between two very different story telling mediums. 

Music is actually a big part of the experience of shows and movies. Take away music and they are just not as effective storytelling mediums. 

Sorry but what is your point exactly? If I got it right, then you chose a very strange way of putting it.

As I interpreted your post, you're saying that music is a legitimate subject in this thread because it's a significant part of motion pictures. But then you should've gone deeper, and say why is the music so important in motion pictures: because it helps to create the atmosphere. Now, that is something that can be compared to the books, because literature has its own ways of creating atmosphere.

So the question would then be: which is more successful in creating atmosphere, the books or the show. Is that what you actually had in mind?

If yes, then the answer is the books are so much better, it's not even close. Every chapter has a very distinct atmosphere, starting from the most obvious manifestations like climate, to the finer ones like the mindset and the mood of the POV character or other significant characters. Unless he has some serious comprehension skills, a reader is always aware of the characters' surroundings and all the ways they affect each other (characters and surroundings). It's so good, it usually feel effortless, but in certain chapters atmosphere is so palpable as if the readers are physically there: one example that comes to mind right away is Jon's chapter in ACOK when he finds the old NW cloak. Also, Davos' chapters in ADWD are extremely atmospheric, and Arya's Harrenhall chapters too.

I'd go as far as say that ASOIAF is possibly the most atmospheric book(s) I ever read.

But about the show, the atmosphere is one of their weakest sides. They rely almost exclusively on music, and while the music is not bad, it grows tiring very fast precisely because of overuse. Everything else is even worse. The sets are totally underused, and prime example is the Spanish location that served as Dorne. That's one of the most beautiful sites in the entire world, but in the show you practically never see any of it's beauty. And it's not surprising really, because D&D decided at the very beginning that shock value is their prime concern. And when shocking the audience is your main goal, then the "atmosphere" in important scenes actually has to be misleading, so that the audience is more surprised when the unexpected twist comes. That's why the Red Wedding in the show had nothing of the discomfort Cat was feeling in the books throughout the entire chapter. They wanted the Red Wedding to be as big a surprise as possible, so they deliberately sacrificed the distinct atmosphere from the source material.

Or just compare the two versions of Jon's murder. In the books, the atmosphere is so rich in every single segment of the chapter, and changes gradually with Jon's inner feelings. From starting determination to do the right thing, it changes to a subtle despair when Ramsay's letter arrives, and then explodes into pure anger and rage when Jon gets his swords, but then the brief confusion in the courtyard leads the way for the final horror. While in the show, once again, all of that is sacrificed for the pure shock value.

[jcmontea]

2 hours ago, StepStark said:

Sorry but what is your point exactly? If I got it right, then you chose a very strange way of putting it.

As I interpreted your post, you're saying that music is a legitimate subject in this thread because it's a significant part of motion pictures. But then you should've gone deeper, and say why is the music so important in motion pictures: because it helps to create the atmosphere. Now, that is something that can be compared to the books, because literature has its own ways of creating atmosphere.

So the question would then be: which is more successful in creating atmosphere, the books or the show. Is that what you actually had in mind?

If yes, then the answer is the books are so much better, it's not even close. Every chapter has a very distinct atmosphere, starting from the most obvious manifestations like climate, to the finer ones like the mindset and the mood of the POV character or other significant characters. Unless he has some serious comprehension skills, a reader is always aware of the characters' surroundings and all the ways they affect each other (characters and surroundings). It's so good, it usually feel effortless, but in certain chapters atmosphere is so palpable as if the readers are physically there: one example that comes to mind right away is Jon's chapter in ACOK when he finds the old NW cloak. Also, Davos' chapters in ADWD are extremely atmospheric, and Arya's Harrenhall chapters too.

I'd go as far as say that ASOIAF is possibly the most atmospheric book(s) I ever read.

But about the show, the atmosphere is one of their weakest sides. They rely almost exclusively on music, and while the music is not bad, it grows tiring very fast precisely because of overuse. Everything else is even worse. The sets are totally underused, and prime example is the Spanish location that served as Dorne. That's one of the most beautiful sites in the entire world, but in the show you practically never see any of it's beauty. And it's not surprising really, because D&D decided at the very beginning that shock value is their prime concern. And when shocking the audience is your main goal, then the "atmosphere" in important scenes actually has to be misleading, so that the audience is more surprised when the unexpected twist comes. That's why the Red Wedding in the show had nothing of the discomfort Cat was feeling in the books throughout the entire chapter. They wanted the Red Wedding to be as big a surprise as possible, so they deliberately sacrificed the distinct atmosphere from the source material.

Or just compare the two versions of Jon's murder. In the books, the atmosphere is so rich in every single segment of the chapter, and changes gradually with Jon's inner feelings. From starting determination to do the right thing, it changes to a subtle despair when Ramsay's letter arrives, and then explodes into pure anger and rage when Jon gets his swords, but then the brief confusion in the courtyard leads the way for the final horror. While in the show, once again, all of that is sacrificed for the pure shock value.

Good job. You figured out one out of 17 ways music is important in film/ television: creating atmosphere. Not as impressive as I would expect given the level of condescension honestly but not bad.

[The Sunland Lord]

3 hours ago, StepStark said:

So the question would then be: which is more successful in creating atmosphere, the books or the show. Is that what you actually had in mind?

If yes, then the answer is the books are so much better, it's not even close. Every chapter has a very distinct atmosphere, starting from the most obvious manifestations like climate, to the finer ones like the mindset and the mood of the POV character or other significant characters. Unless he has some serious comprehension skills, a reader is always aware of the characters' surroundings and all the ways they affect each other (characters and surroundings). It's so good, it usually feel effortless, but in certain chapters atmosphere is so palpable as if the readers are physically there: one example that comes to mind right away is Jon's chapter in ACOK when he finds the old NW cloak. Also, Davos' chapters in ADWD are extremely atmospheric, and Arya's Harrenhall chapters too.

I'd go as far as say that ASOIAF is possibly the most atmospheric book(s) I ever read.

But about the show, the atmosphere is one of their weakest sides. They rely almost exclusively on music, and while the music is not bad, it grows tiring very fast precisely because of overuse. Everything else is even worse. The sets are totally underused, and prime example is the Spanish location that served as Dorne. That's one of the most beautiful sites in the entire world, but in the show you practically never see any of it's beauty. And it's not surprising really, because D&D decided at the very beginning that shock value is their prime concern. And when shocking the audience is your main goal, then the "atmosphere" in important scenes actually has to be misleading, so that the audience is more surprised when the unexpected twist comes. That's why the Red Wedding in the show had nothing of the discomfort Cat was feeling in the books throughout the entire chapter. They wanted the Red Wedding to be as big a surprise as possible, so they deliberately sacrificed the distinct atmosphere from the source material.

Or just compare the two versions of Jon's murder. In the books, the atmosphere is so rich in every single segment of the chapter, and changes gradually with Jon's inner feelings. From starting determination to do the right thing, it changes to a subtle despair when Ramsay's letter arrives, and then explodes into pure anger and rage when Jon gets his swords, but then the brief confusion in the courtyard leads the way for the final horror. While in the show, once again, all of that is sacrificed for the pure shock value.

Yeah the books are really atmospheric. A legit point. 

When you meet Balon and his brothers it feels almost like being in this insane company you want to get out of, but yet it was amusing and laughable when Aeron was doing his chantings. 

Also for me Cressen's chapter did an amazing job on depicting how empty and almost sad is the atmosphere surrounding Stannis, and Dragonstone as a place. Later on Davos' POVs continue this work.

They wanted to wipe out every hint of Red Wedding, as you say, and they went as far as totally erasing the role of Ramsay in Theon's short reign of Winterfell and flaying and burning the farm boys. Also, they covered the sack of Winterfell.

Though it didn't surprise me despite I wasn't reading the books back then. The third season had a slow build up for something nasty, and you couldn't miss the way of making the show: Building until episode eight, in the ninth it has its zenith, and the aftermath was in the season's finale. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Red Tiger]

Yes, they mostly kept out AFFC.

[StepStark]

On 10/29/2017 at 11:17 PM, jcmontea said:

Good job. You figured out one out of 17 ways music is important in film/ television: creating atmosphere. Not as impressive as I would expect given the level of condescension honestly but not bad.

Speaking of condescension...

But if you insist, yes, I am aware that music can be important for different reasons in film/television. But that is not what we were talking about, wasn't it? We were talking about Game Of Thrones and there music is used for one reason only: to create atmosphere, or more precisely to create something D&D think is atmosphere (preparing viewers to be in the right emotional state).

Is there any other way the music is important for GOT?

[LittleScorpion]

I might have said this already, but Cersei is a better character on the show. End of story. She's hilarious and strangely endearing in the books, but she is kind of flat. The show rounded her out, made her less OTT, and gave us one of the finest television performances in history. So yeah.

[Eggegg]

11 hours ago, LittleScorpion said:

I might have said this already, but Cersei is a better character on the show. End of story. She's hilarious and strangely endearing in the books, but she is kind of flat. The show rounded her out, made her less OTT, and gave us one of the finest television performances in history. So yeah.

For a while that was true. But since her childrens death she's just become a sort of evil Dany.. a grimacing gurning witchy woman who makes speeches and threats.

[jcmontea]

2 hours ago, Eggegg said:

For a while that was true. But since her childrens death she's just become a sort of evil Dany.. a grimacing gurning witchy woman who makes speeches and threats.

I thought Cersei was great all season personally. When i watched the first time i hated her guts which is a good reaction to inspire from the villain. And now reflecting on the season her scenes were super interesting. 

I agree with you she is clearly an evil Dany. 

“We are the last Lannisters, the last ones who count” => “i am the last Targaryen Jon Snow” ;-)

“7x01 “CERSE: I understand whoever wins could launch a dynasty that lasts a thousand years. JAIME: A dynasty for whom? Our children are dead. We're the last of us.” <=> 

7x07 Dany: They filled people with wonder and awe, and we locked them in here. They wasted away. They grew small.And we grew small as well. We weren't extraordinary without them.We were just like everyone else.
Jon: You're not like everyone else.
And your family hasn't seen its end.
You're still here.
Dany: I can't have children.
Jon: Who told you that? Dany: The witch who murdered my husband.
Jon: Has it occurred to you she might not have been a reliable source of information?

[Eggegg]

Yeah I just think they've forgotten how to write characters that don't just bark inspiration at crowds. Every line has to be something they can shove into a trailer just in case it sounds good.. even if it leads to bizarre unrealistic conversations.