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Is There Anything On The Show That You Think Is Better Than The Books?


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On 6/12/2017 at 6:21 PM, CaptainTheo said:

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All of this. There is no Sansa on the show, and I actually wouldn't mind if Sandra died, if not for the sake of the book character.

Also I'll note this:

GRRM clearly said when he posted the TWOW chapter for Sansa that the show went in one direction, and he went in a different direction.

The show cut most of the Riverlands/Vale story and as a result, a bunch of characters were plopped into other plots, and are very different.

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10 hours ago, CaptainTheo said:

Agree with all this. In fact as far as I'm concerned this isn't even Sansa any more. Sansa in the books is very compassionate, so much show that she is uncomfortable when Joffrey is murdered. Whereas this version (Fansa? Asnas?) is the exact opposite. When Reek tells her of his horrific treatment at the hands of Ramsay, she says she's glad about it, and would have done the same thing.

As far as her killing of Ramsay goes, she subverts the Northern ways and natural cause of justice for personal vengeance; Ramsay ought to have been trialled and then executed by the person who passed sentence (probably Jon). What about all the other people who Ramsay wronged, such as the Cerwyns, and Reek? Where's their say in the matter?

What I found most chilling of all was that having fed a restrained prisoner to his dogs, Asnas smiled about it. That was sickening, being very much the actions of a villain, and about as un-Sansa as you can get. It's also completely unoriginal. Arya (who's supposed to be basically the opposite of Sansa) did the same thing (smiled) after killing Polliver, and probably some others on her hit list too. Completely villainous characters like Ramsay and Joffrey did the same. When Ramsay says that he's part of Asnas now, it sounds to me like he managed to turn her into the monster that he was.

It is, of course, a tribute to the show that we have such passionate reactions to the development of this character and her actions.

It has just occurred to me wonder that as word of how Show Sansa became a widow gets around, what kind of reaction will the Northern lords and the North in general have to such an action.

Will it be the theme of songs to come?

Part of Northern folk-lore?

Granted, we already have 2 bloody Stark she-wolves (LSH and little Arya/Nymeria come to mind) so perhaps it is fitting Sansa joins their ranks to make a third.

 

 

 

9 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

All of this. There is no Sansa on the show, and I actually wouldn't mind if Sandra died, if not for the sake of the book character.

Judging by the chapters of TWOW that have been given out, nothing, but nothing could surprise me about GRRM's plans for any character.

As for the show, I'm in it for the photography and costuming.

And talking about it at work- makes a change from local politics and the merits of different brands of beer. 

 

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1 hour ago, Prof. Cecily said:

It is, of course, a tribute to the show that we have such passionate reactions to the development of this character and her actions.

I assure you that it isn't. It's no more a tribute than a traffic accident being credited for everyone staring at it in shock.

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8 minutes ago, StepStark said:

I assure you that it isn't. It's no more a tribute than a traffic accident being credited for everyone staring at it in shock.

:D

Every morning, as I clean my teeth, I repeat to myself the noble resolution to cultivate a positive attitude to GoT seasons 2-8.

It's now 13:21 and your post has broken today's resolution into shards.

You owe me a Paulaner, ser!

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3 hours ago, Prof. Cecily said:

:D

Every morning, as I clean my teeth, I repeat to myself the noble resolution to cultivate a positive attitude to GoT seasons 2-8.

It's now 13:21 and your post has broken today's resolution into shards.

You owe me a Paulaner, ser!

As D&D would undoubtedly ask in disbelief: you actually clean your teeth with Paulaner?

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Thank you, although I have already seen it before. Costuming is something the show does better too.

Personally i like the entirety of show Sansa. She might diverge from book character but i don't think she took an unrealistic path. I wouldn't be surprised if bookSansa ramped up the asshole-ness quick in the coming books but i dont think she'll ever go Cersei in either show or books

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43 minutes ago, SecretWeapon said:

Thank you, although I have already seen it before. Costuming is something the show does better too.

Personally i like the entirety of show Sansa. She might diverge from book character but i don't think she took an unrealistic path. I wouldn't be surprised if bookSansa ramped up the asshole-ness quick in the coming books but i dont think she'll ever go Cersei in either show or books

That entire series is a delight.

Quote

i dont think she'll ever go Cersei in either show or books

Well, I think the death of Ramsey is a step in that direction, but we'll see how that plays out in the show! 

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10 hours ago, Prof. Cecily said:

That entire series is a delight.

Well, I think the death of Ramsey is a step in that direction, but we'll see how that plays out in the show! 

Great conversation, I have read the last 15 or 20 posts here (by you and others) with great interest.

I think Sansa will die before the end, though.

Sad but true.

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On 6/12/2017 at 2:24 AM, Prof. Cecily said:

 

 

This is where my 21st century mindset kicks in, as recognising yet another betrayal of Ned Stark's principles.

By using starving animals to exact 'justice', Sansa keeps her hands clean. SHE doesn't kill her husband, rather the starving dogs do.

Keep in mind that by catering to her thirst for revenge, rather than having Ramsay detained to face trial, Sansa reverts to the lowest level of power usage- might is right.

 

And also, keep in mind the philosophy of her lord father, Ned Stark- 

“The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword. If you would take a man's life, you owe it to him to look into his eyes and hear his final words. And if you cannot bear to do that, then perhaps the man does not deserve to die.”

Sansa perverts this philosophy, twisting it to satisfy her desires. I can't imagine Lord Stark would ever consent to such an atrocity as Sansa commits.

Remember Ned's decisions when he sat the IT as the King's Hand and the cases of the horrors committed by ser Gregor Clegan are denounced before him.

 

Think about what you're saying.

After Winterfell is delivered into Jon Stark's hands, are the dogs fed and cared for?

No. They're maintained in starvation so Sansa can enjoy the spectacle of her husband's horrific death.

Again, my 21st century mindset rebels at such an action.

Still, this is all from the HBO production. We'll have to wait to see how GRRM plays out the recapture of Winterfell.

you do realize that it was probably the night after they took winterfell and feeding dogs wasn't high up on their list.Not saying it's right but I think your overthinking this

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49 minutes ago, snow is the man said:

you do realize that it was probably the night after they took winterfell and feeding dogs wasn't high up on their list.Not saying it's right but I think your overthinking this

You're very likely right!

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13 hours ago, SecretWeapon said:

Thank you, although I have already seen it before. Costuming is something the show does better too.

Personally i like the entirety of show Sansa. She might diverge from book character but i don't think she took an unrealistic path. I wouldn't be surprised if bookSansa ramped up the asshole-ness quick in the coming books but i dont think she'll ever go Cersei in either show or books

I do not dislike the show, at all.

My problem with the show Sansa is that I think the show's hinting that Sansa's turning villainous, but doesn't have the guts to SAY it. Take season 6, where Sansa hides the Vale army from Jon. Why does she do this? I think it's possible to argue that she does it because she wants Ramsay to destroy Jon and the wildlings for her (she wouldn't want to look like a kin killer) after which she can enter and destroy Ramsay. Feeding him to the dogs would fit that take; it's a villainous, unNed thing to do. Her sending Brienne away fits, too: she wouldn't want a follower who'll attempt to stop her. However, Sansa isn't given the lines to support that interpretation, though her actions support it, and her being a pupil of LF would certainly support it.

Or, just maybe, Sansa wants something else. Problem is the script still isn't there. Sansa does these dramatic things, but she's mostly shown looking troubled, which is not enough.

As a result, I don't know what Sansa wants, or why she hid that army from Jon. That's a problem, as Sansa is important, and her decisions have huge consequences in season 6.

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3 minutes ago, SecretWeapon said:

The way i interpreted the leaks gives me a different perception of her than yours, truth to be said.

I haven't read the leaks :)

I'm also not sure why there's a reluctance to attribute negative motives to Sansa. Arya is now an assassin who kills with a smile; she can apply what she learned from the FM. Bran is a prophet whose decisions have already doomed Bloodraven, the remaining Children, and Hodor. He learned, too. Sansa's teacher is LF, the man who specializes in manipulation. Why should Sansa be the one Stark kid who does nothing with her new knowledge? 

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