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Cron

Is There Anything On The Show That You Think Is Better Than The Books?

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20 minutes ago, Cron said:

I believe Dany does love Daario.  They are soul mates, it's just that she mistakenly allows her warped sense of duty to interrupt their love.

But I'm not worried, I believe there's NO WAY Daario is staying in Essos.  He's going to follow Dany to Westeros whether she likes it or not, and help her solidify her claim to the throne, and I think eventually she'll realize she really can't do any better than him.

I think she commands Jorah to return to her just cuz she feels sorry for him.  It's really kind of sad and pathetic.  I believe there is zero chance Jorah is going to end up with Dany, and everyone seems to know it except him.

Dany doesn't love Daario anymore. She loved him but from one episode to the other she decided she didn't care about that guy. She is very clear about that. Very difficult to accept, but that is due to a very bad writing.

The other possibility is that she has never truly loved him or that she is lying to Tyrion; because in the previous scene she seemed to at least care about him.... It's so confusing.

It was a big surprise for me, because even if it was the case that she didn't love him with all her heart, she seemed not to care at all about him in the scene with Tyrion. As I said, very bad writing.

Jorah is a sad character but I don't consider him pathetic at all. He is brave to tell her what he is feeling for her and  perseveres without being annoying, but very sentimental. He doesn't force her to love him AT ALL... Ultimately, it's Dany who will decide who she loves, (and there is the possibiliy it won't be neither Daario nor Jorah).

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4 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Dany doesn't love Daario anymore. She loved him but from one episode to the other she decided she didn't care about that guy. She is very clear about that. Very difficult to accept, but that is due to a very bad writing.

The other possibility is that she has never truly loved him or that she is lying to Tyrion; because in the previous scene she seemed to at least care about him.... It's so confusing.

It was a big surprise for me, because even if it was the case that she didn't love him with all her heart, she seemed not to care at all about him in the scene with Tyrion. As I said, very bad writing.

Jorah is a sad character but I don't consider him pathetic at all. He is brave to tell her what he is feeling for her and  perseveres without being annoying, but very sentimental. He doesn't force her to love him AT ALL... Ultimately, it's Dany who will decide who she loves, (and there is the possibiliy it won't be neither Daario nor Jorah).

Well, "bad writing" is certainly one possible explanation for what Dany feels or doesn't feel regarding Daario, but anothe explanation could be that she's just confused about her feelings, and doesn't really understand them herself.   This is common in romantic comedies and/or romantic dramas, after many ups and downs in one or more relationships while searcing for "the one," the main character suddenly realizes "love was right here in front of me all along."  Happens frequently, common as dirt.  

In fact, it's a cliched trope, so much so that it's actually refreshing and noteworthy when it DOESN'T happen in a story.  Excellent example:  The Matrix movies.  Neo and Trinity's relationship is about as pure as it can be.  They are mutually attracted to each when they meet, they fall in love, they love each other. they are with each other and no one else, EVER, and are together all the end, with NO nonsense or bull or "head games" from either one of them the entire way.  It's one of the many things I love about the Matrix movies, so refreshing to just skip all the head games and nonsense in a story for once.,

But in any event, I don't think the show is done with Daario, and he seems to understand what Dany wants and needs better than Dany does at multiple times in the series.  I've got a feeling the end is going to be one of those times, and Dany is going to end up in a relationship based on love, not duty, and that means "with Daario."  If not him, then who?  There really aren't that many suitors left.  Jon?  Naw, I know that's a popular theory, but I just simply do not see it.  Among other things, they are related, and I just don't see either the books or shows going there and calling it "happily ever after."

Regarding Jorah:  Sorry, he's pathetic. HAR.  Why does he "love" Dany anyway?  Cuz she's smokng hot? Cuz he believes she's determined and destined to rule Westeros?  I don't even really believe Jorah loves Dany at all, I think he's just infatuated with the idea of Dany, and anything beyond that is just physical attraction based on the fact that she's smoking hot.

What has ever transpired between Jorah and Dany that would cause him to "love" her?  I dunno, but I maintain that his chances with her are "ZERO."  I can't imagine what could possibly cause Dany to pick Jorah over Daario.  Cuz he follows her around like a lost puppy mooning over her, like I said above?  Naw.  That's not attractive, which I think is a mistake a lot of people make when pursuing a relationship.  I think people are attacted to people who can stand on their own first, be their own person and do their own thing, not someone who follows them around in hopeless desperation when there has never been even the slightest hint or clue that the other person feels anything remotely near the same way.

Just my opinions.

 

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imo the same cliche could be applied to Jorah and Dany (she might not have realised she loves him) and maybe because of that they have make her break with Daario.

and why does Jorah love Dany? He loves her for everything she is. The same question could be said for Daario...why does he love her? Are Daario's feelings more pure than Jorah's? i don't think they are. (more pure)-in fact they seemed to agree on that both were fighting for the love of the same woman (although Daario thought he was winning on that ...)

You might think Jorah is pathetic, we don't have to agree on that but imo the most pathetic thing is being false and that os what showDany was when she was talking to Daario instead of telling him the truth and playing with him all this time (supposing she is not lyingnto Tyrion).

but of course it can be bad writing and she end up with Daario. But it would be theonr of the worst written scenes from GOT evrer for Dany, worse that the one when she claimed to make justice killing one of her men and the day after burning alive a mab without a trial.

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Daario enjoys having sex with the hot and powerful lady with dragons; she enjoys it as well.  He doesn't love her.  She doesn't love him.  It is purely a physical relationship/ infatuation.

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2 hours ago, illinifan said:

Daario enjoys having sex with the hot and powerful lady with dragons; she enjoys it as well.  He doesn't love her.  She doesn't love him.  It is purely a physical relationship/ infatuation.

Exactly my opinion.

It is and has always been a FwB relationship.  

Book Dany, who is only 14, mistakes this strong physical attraction for "love".  Show Dany is older and more mature, and she understands herself better.  There's no indication she's "in love with" Daario.  She's pretty distant with him in general, though friendly of course.  

As she tells Tyrion, she is still quite surprised when she felt "nothing", but this makes sense in context.  She thought she'd at least feel regret to lose a good bed warmer but instead her ambition completely overwhelms that.

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On 8/28/2016 at 9:46 PM, illinifan said:

Daario enjoys having sex with the hot and powerful lady with dragons; she enjoys it as well.  He doesn't love her.  She doesn't love him.  It is purely a physical relationship/ infatuation.

With respect, I simply don't believe that.

I believe Daario actually, truly loves Dany, and I believe she's suppressing her true feelings for him.

They are VERY sympatico, and I maintain my opinion that they will end up together.

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I haven't read the books, but just after going back and reading passages for certain scenes, I'm always impressed at how D & D enhanced them. They really made the show into its own thing and cut out a lot of silly stuff in the books (stuff that works fine on the page, but not on screen). That's why i was so shocked at their ineptness at carrying the plot forward as the books ran out of material. S6 was so by the numbers and vanilla compared to the previous seasons. It's hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that the two guys who had done such a brilliant job bringing the material to life in the first 5 seasons were so incapable of maintaining the high level of story telling. I suppose I should cut them some slack as 4 months is a very little amount of time to write an entire season, but still I'm shocked they couldn't do better in a lot of areas. 

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4 hours ago, Cron said:

With respect, I simply don't believe that.

I believe Daario actually, truly loves Dany, and I believe she's suppressing her true feelings for him.

They are VERY sympatico, and I maintain my opinion that they will end up together.

 I think Daario is the one who betrays her in the books for gold, so I doubt it.  

 

3 hours ago, LatrineDiggerBrian said:

I haven't read the books, but just after going back and reading passages for certain scenes, I'm always impressed at how D & D enhanced them. They really made the show into its own thing and cut out a lot of silly stuff in the books (stuff that works fine on the page, but not on screen). That's why i was so shocked at their ineptness at carrying the plot forward as the books ran out of material. S6 was so by the numbers and vanilla compared to the previous seasons. It's hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that the two guys who had done such a brilliant job bringing the material to life in the first 5 seasons were so incapable of maintaining the high level of story telling. I suppose I should cut them some slack as 4 months is a very little amount of time to write an entire season, but still I'm shocked they couldn't do better in a lot of areas. 

Really?  I thought that the season was much better than season 5.  It seemed like D&D were not treading water and were putting the pieces in place.  The Winds of Winter was especially good.  

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On 8/28/2016 at 7:42 AM, Cron said:

Yeah, Jorah has his strong points as a character, but i've always thought it's kind of pathetic how he moons over and chases after Dany.

Does he honestly believe he has any chance with her???

I think Jorah is a person who needs to serve and be devoted. It's difficult to say why he loves her. People are just attracted to whatever they are attracted to, period. Sometimes people throw they life because of smb they want to be with, ignoring all common sense. Even in ASOIAF, Jaime gave up his chance to inherit CR and marry any girl in Westeros to be with Cersei. Jon mourns Ygritte long after her death, instead of moving on and etc.

I see your points, but I think Jorah's storyline became pathetic in the run of the show and Jorah became more caricaturic. I don't know if it's just a bad writing or Iain Glenn's acting worsened. His last farewell from Dany in s6 "Tyrion was right, I love you" was just ridiculous and clicheed and totally unneccessary.

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Actually yes, there is/was. 

Portraying certain characters (Margaery, Ramsay, High Sparrow etc) merging characters (Jaqen=Kindly man, Sansa=Jeyne *yes I think that was a perfectly sensible notion even if they failed to pull it off* Victarion=Yara, Coldhands=Benjen etc), cutting a bunch of characters/storylines (LHS, Young Griff, dragon horn bullshit, three quarters of the Essos lot etc). 

The show screws up a lot and the plot makes less and less sense, but they kinda did what the author never did (and should have, in my humble opinion that everybody is free to disagree with) and edited out half of the books. And of course spectacular acting poured life into some characters I had never cared for in the books, but couldn't help loving/loving to hate on the show. 

And let's not forget about the most important thing, the show progresses

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12 hours ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

I think Jorah is a person who needs to serve and be devoted. It's difficult to say why he loves her. People are just attracted to whatever they are attracted to, period. Sometimes people throw they life because of smb they want to be with, ignoring all common sense. Even in ASOIAF, Jaime gave up his chance to inherit CR and marry any girl in Westeros to be with Cersei. Jon mourns Ygritte long after her death, instead of moving on and etc.

I see your points, but I think Jorah's storyline became pathetic in the run of the show and Jorah became more caricaturic. I don't know if it's just a bad writing or Iain Glenn's acting worsened. His last farewell from Dany in s6 "Tyrion was right, I love you" was just ridiculous and clicheed and totally unneccessary.

Good stuff.

Personally, I don't blame the Jorah actor, though.  I think he's playing the role he's been given.

I believe the pathetic aspects of Jorah's story are inherent to his plot line, and his dialogue, some of which you mentioned.

Incidentally, there ARE quite a few things I like about Jorah, too, it's just that when it comes to Dany, he needs to get a clue.

She's not romantically attracted to him, and NEVER will be.  I'd really like to tell him "Jorah, move on, dude, okay?"

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9 hours ago, RhaeBee said:

Actually yes, there is/was. 

Portraying certain characters (Margaery, Ramsay, High Sparrow etc) merging characters (Jaqen=Kindly man, Sansa=Jeyne *yes I think that was a perfectly sensible notion even if they failed to pull it off* Victarion=Yara, Coldhands=Benjen etc), cutting a bunch of characters/storylines (LHS, Young Griff, dragon horn bullshit, three quarters of the Essos lot etc). 

The show screws up a lot and the plot makes less and less sense, but they kinda did what the author never did (and should have, in my humble opinion that everybody is free to disagree with) and edited out half of the books. And of course spectacular acting poured life into some characters I had never cared for in the books, but couldn't help loving/loving to hate on the show. 

And let's not forget about the most important thing, the show progresses

Nice, lots of great food for thought there.

Sounds like you might be in the category of fans who like the show better than the books. Is that right?

I didn't mind some of the omissions or mergings of characters you mentioned (cuz it's just not possible to include all the details of the books and I understand that that), but I intensely disliked the shoehorning of Sansa (a major character) into the plot line of Jeyne Poole (a minor character).  Also, I was REALLY looking forward to seeing Griff, Young Griff and the rest of the crew on that boat, and was really disappointed when they cut them all.

But oh well, there are a LOT of thingst he show does extremely well, some of which is even better than the books (overall though, for me, the books are better).

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On August 30, 2016 at 0:59 AM, illinifan said:

 I think Daario is the one who betrays her in the books for gold, so I doubt it.  

 

Really?  I thought that the season was much better than season 5.  It seemed like D&D were not treading water and were putting the pieces in place.  The Winds of Winter was especially good.  

Did you read the books? Anyone who read the books seems to hate season 5. I didn't have the same problems with Dorne or the other stuff. Overall I rate season 5 as up there with the previous 4 seasons, but it's probably my least favorite of those 5.

Season 6 just didn't do it for me. Lot of disappointing payoffs to storylines. The end to the House of B & W was awful, just a very very simple, tropey, by the numbers end to a very complicated / mysterious / fascinating storyline. Tyrion's storyline was terrible, just a disparate group of scenes that added up to nothing in the end and had very little impact on the characters or story. Jon and Sansa feud was forced and didn't add up for me. The whole storyline in the North was so predictable and going through the motions. I get that it was Ramsey's time to go, but how about some suspense? Or twists and turns? Don't have it play out like any fan fiction writer would. And that's just scratching the surface for me, there was just a lot of sloppiness, a lot of quickly and haphazardly dispatching of characters. It wasn't dark. Hands down it was well well well below the other seasons for me.

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8 hours ago, Cron said:

Nice, lots of great food for thought there.

Sounds like you might be in the category of fans who like the show better than the books. Is that right?

I didn't mind some of the omissions or mergings of characters you mentioned (cuz it's just not possible to include all the details of the books and I understand that that), but I intensely disliked the shoehorning of Sansa (a major character) into the plot line of Jeyne Poole (a minor character).  Also, I was REALLY looking forward to seeing Griff, Young Griff and the rest of the crew on that boat, and was really disappointed when they cut them all.

But oh well, there are a LOT of thingst he show does extremely well, some of which is even better than the books (overall though, for me, the books are better).

No, I wouldn't say that. Both have their ups and downs and I've been  in that phase of fandom where I liked the books more as well as in the phase where I liked the show more. At the moment I would say I'm pissed AF at both so I mostly just bitch about both. I was perfectly open to devoting myself to the show this year, but season 6 was soooooooo bad for what it could have been that I just couldn't go back to loving the show more. I'm sure you were interested in the stormy relationship of my inner fan girl and ASOIAF in detail... Sorry about rambling. 

I'm a huge Targaryan fan but I didn't like the Young Griff story even when I had thought he really was Aegon. It was the same kind of drag as the deathly hollows. As for Jeyne Poole, imo it was obvious that she'll be either cut or Sansa will take up her story and imo that's much better than spending a whole season sitting around while Sweetrobin shoots arrows or God forbid introduce the Harry the Heir ordeal. 

Don't get me wrong I love that the books provide the characters and the story with more depth, that's an amazing thing - to a certain degree. But I think the writer just way way way overdid it to the point where there's no way out of the cobweb he created. 

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On 31/8/2016 at 2:42 PM, Ashes Of Westeros said:

I think Jorah is a person who needs to serve and be devoted. It's difficult to say why he loves her. People are just attracted to whatever they are attracted to, period. Sometimes people throw they life because of smb they want to be with, ignoring all common sense. Even in ASOIAF, Jaime gave up his chance to inherit CR and marry any girl in Westeros to be with Cersei. Jon mourns Ygritte long after her death, instead of moving on and etc.

I see your points, but I think Jorah's storyline became pathetic in the run of the show and Jorah became more caricaturic. I don't know if it's just a bad writing or Iain Glenn's acting worsened. His last farewell from Dany in s6 "Tyrion was right, I love you" was just ridiculous and clicheed and totally unneccessary.

I think there's nothing to blame to Ian Glein,  on the conmtrary, he plays the line he is given perfectly IMO.

I particularly LOVED that line, being sincere to her directly for the first time, but they should have omitted Tyrion there, since Dany didn't know about Tyrion+Jorah's dialogue. But Tyrion is  has to be omnipresent in this show. Don't really know why:dunno:

I just remember the "I love you" part and that was amazing IMO of someone who likes the show character.

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7 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I think there's nothing to blame to Ian Glein,  on the conmtrary, he plays the line he is given perfectly IMO.

I particularly LOVED that line, being sincere to her directly for the first time, but they should have omitted Tyrion there, since Dany didn't know about Tyrion+Jorah's dialogue. But Tyrion is  has to be omnipresent in this show. Don't really know why:dunno:

I just remember the "I love you" part and that was amazing IMO of someone who likes the show character.

I see your point and I don't hate Jorah at all neither in the books nor in the show. I just think that the show character used to be more nuanced in the early seasons.

I don't know how much freedom do actors usually (and in GoT particularly) have in portraing their characters.

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