Jump to content

A question on melee combat in Planetos


Aenarion

Recommended Posts

Is there any sort of formalized learning? Cultures like the dothraki obviously would not have any sort of systematic learning beyond "stick them with the pointy end", but what of other cultures (like Westeros or the bravos of the free cities)? Wouldn't those have formalized teachings with forms, writings/diagrams on techniques, schools for famous warriors, etc? Shouldn't someone as good as Bronn be able to set up a school to teach people to fight, or at least get hired as a master at arms? The guy is "near as good as Jamie" according to Tyrion, who is int he top 5 warriors in the history of Westeros (literally up there with Arthur Dayne, Aemon the Dragon Knight, Cregan Stark, etc.). Why doesn't a guy like that get a job beyond "kill people with a sword until I don't need you"?

Whenever we hear of someone training, it is always "grab your sword and whack at another guy". We know from real life (and the recent European Historical Martial Arts project) that throughout pretty much every age of history there has been a systematic style of learning. There are accounts of fighting styles in the hoplites of ancient Greece (leading many to believe the phalanx was nowhere near as dense as it is portrayed). Knights had various styles of fighting, as did the samurai of Japan. European duelists (who the bravos seem to be named after) had different schools of fighting and styles. Throughout history a large amount of martial technique was formalized in forms that would be taught as the basis of training. You didn't truly spar until you had mastered certain basics and forms to begin guiding your motions and polish your technique. 

 

Yet we see none of this in Westeros. Syrio has SOME degree of it with Arya, showing her how to stand and hold a sword, however we never see (or are shown) them standing together and going through motions (which in real life was the starting point of any martial training). The same thing happens when Rodrik Cassel is training Winterfell's new guard. All the recruits are fighting each other while he screams "no, that's not how any of this works" at them. A much better way of training would have been to show them the basic forms of attack, and then had them practice on their own while he watched (allowing him to correct their stances, form, grip, etc initially). When Jamie decides to begin training himself, he doesn't try to practice any forms, but immediately grabs a sword and starts getting beat by Ilyn Payne or whoever is close at hand and trustworthy enough (admittedly the first time this could be arrogance, but then he should have realized he needs to re-learn those forms for his left hand if they exist). We are told that Qhorin Halfhand taught himself how to fight again, but never told how. The Night's Watch, if Alliser Thorne is any indication, teaches no formalized fighting style but just has recruits beat each other brainless until the talented/gifted ones emerge. 

 

My question is, are there any instances (either in the World book or in the regular series) of formalized fighting styles and actual combat teaching beyond the "grab yer sword and start whacking each other"? While this would lead to exceptional swordsmen out of physical/mental predisposition towards fighting, there is no chance that anyone could train themselves into a great swordsman through practice. The entirety of Planetos's martial ability and training seems to be summarized in grab your weapon (maybe some armor), and go fight. The ones that are physically gifted (by speed, strength, dexterity) or mentally gifted (analyzing fighting styles, seeing weaknesses/openings, understanding how to manipulate opponents) would succeed, and through experience and become deadly fighters until they meet someone better than them and die. However, if any of these highly gifted swordsmen meet Arthur Dayne, Bronn, or Qhorin's equivalent, they die before their potential is seen and cultivated. Even someone with a lot of talent and years of training, like Jon, shows how inadequate any of it is except against those weaker than you when he faces of against Qhorin (when in reality if you had formal training and technique odds are you would be able to overcome physical disadvantages). It seems like an idiotic way to teach fighting that would lead to an overly high mortality rate for a very low payoff (after all, you might end up with 1 exceptional swordsman through this system, rather than 5 excellent, 10 above average, and 10 average swordsmen through training). 

PS. One thing I always find amusing is that George tries to hammer home that "no man is an army" and "even the best swordsmen cannot overcome numbers" when history has multiple examples of legendary figures that beat dozens of opponents single handedly (e.g. Miyamoto Musashi). 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...