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YOVMO

The Five Forts

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8 hours ago, Runaway Penguin said:

Curled Finger, not sure about dictionary, but seen "melting" in reference to forces (esp. irregular) dispersing (or being routed) pretty often. For example Vietcong are often described as "melting" into jungle etc. - nothing new. I think this represents clearly the dangers of similar boards - taking things TOO literally (similar to say thinking that "bombing into stone age" means bombing every metal tool user. 

 

For example, from the memories from Peninsular war (just to establish the metaphor is old enough):

"'Twas enough. On rushed the Fusiliers and 53rd regiment and delivered such a fire, that in a few minutes the enemy melted away, leaving 6 pieces of cannon behind..."

 

Since Battle of Talavera featured the French as antagonist, I think we can avoid being sidetracked ;)

Well Penguin, I searched the term "melt away" because I was sure I was right.   I'm going to have to offer a draw.   I'm finding the term several times throughout the books and it's about 50/50 used to describe literally melting away and as you illustrate above.  It could still mean literally melt away but it could also mean as you say, to disappear.    Good one on Viet Cong reference.   My friend was trying to remember where she heard term "melt away into the jungle".    She threw it at me more than once this morning.   

@ Yovmo, I can't say with 100% certainty that my creatures really are melting away literally.   That's the way I read it, but the words seem to have multiple interpretations.  A thousand pardons.   

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20 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Sorry on the phone here.  It will correct my spelling.  These folks are the Jogos Nhai the zorse riders Lo Bu sought dominion over.   They were known to melt away before opposing armies.  I'm not finding the supporting text for my claim they make a weird noise so I may have misremembered that sorry.  They are a nasty bunch with some very interesting er qualities and traditions.  

The Jogos Nhai are human, a nomadic people similar to the Dothraki. 'Melting away' can mean dispersing silently and quickly, often in the face of an enemy.

9 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

@ Yovmo, I can't say with 100% certainty that my creatures really are melting away literally.

They aren't creatures though, they are human.

 

Here's the wiki link for the Jogos Nhai:

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Jogos_Nhai

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Exactly. The French who melted away at Talavera in the snipped I quoted also did not melt physically, but just ran away. The term can denote both organized armies suddenly, disastrously scattering or irregular armies just dispersing in order to avoid stronger foe.

 

Note that the "melters" suffered when their opponent instead of one massive push went for a multi-pringed campaign, denying them the opportunity to disperse and go into hiding. The story about separate defeat of the thirteen armies speaks of either vast incompetence or of exaggeration :)

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17 hours ago, White Ravens said:

The "him" that worries you is Euron himself.  In the paragraphs leading up to the above bolded quote the dialogue between Euron and Victarion reads:

 

 

Euron:  "A King must have a wife, to give him heirs.  Brother, I have need of you.  Will you go to Slaver's Bay and bring my love to me?"

Victarion:  "You have sons."

Euron:  "Baseborn mongrels, born of whores and weepers."

Victarion  "They are of your body."

Euron:  "So are the contents of my chamber pot. None is fit to sit the Seastone Chair, much less the Iron Throne. No, to make an heir that's worthy of him, I need a different woman. When the kraken weds the dragon, brother, let all the world beware."
 

 

It still doesn't make sense to say "to make an heir that's worthy of him..." If you are talking about making an heir that is worthy of you. The him seems to me to be referring to someone other than himself 

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On 8/22/2016 at 7:45 PM, Net-Viper X said:

That's how I saw it too. The "him" is interchangeable with "a King" and he is referring to himself as a King in that conversation.

To make an heir worthy of a King, I need a different woman.

Right?  The "him" that Euron is referring to is the King he sees himself becoming.  The Kraken.

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9 hours ago, YOVMO said:

It still doesn't make sense to say "to make an heir that's worthy of him..." If you are talking about making an heir that is worthy of you. The him seems to me to be referring to someone other than himself 

Well I guess this is simply an "agree to disagree" situation.  To me it makes perfect sense.  We don't need to speculate about who "him" is because Euron is describing a future version of himself as the King and refers to that hypothetical self in the third person. 

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All other things aside, if Euron did meet some evil god/sorcerer, Five Forts wouldn't be the place, they don't seem evil at all.

While there are Asshai, city of black magic, ruins of Valyria and Valyrian cities Mantarys, etc, Basilisk Isles, cities in Sothyros, Leng (Old Ones in the subterranean cities), Nefer (city of necromancy), ruins or Chroyane (Shrouded Lord), Thousand Isles (scary fish gods), Carcosa (sorcerer king) all near waterways.

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1 hour ago, Equilibrium said:

All other things aside, if Euron did meet some evil god/sorcerer, Five Forts wouldn't be the place, they don't seem evil at all.

While there are Asshai, city of black magic, ruins of Valyria and Valyrian cities Mantarys, etc, Basilisk Isles, cities in Sothyros, Leng (Old Ones in the subterranean cities), Nefer (city of necromancy), ruins or Chroyane (Shrouded Lord), Thousand Isles (scary fish gods), Carcosa (sorcerer king) all near waterways.

Beyond the Five Forts is K'Dath: The inhabitants of K'Dath claim the city is the first and oldest in the world. It is said that K'Dath is the site of unspeakable rites performed to slake the hunger of mad gods and that even the Shrykes that dwell in the lands south of the city fear it

But if Euron ows his powers to some twisted place, my vote would be Stygai, the City of the Night (upriver from Asshai), a place where not even shadowbinders dare to visit.

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40 minutes ago, Tucu said:

Beyond the Five Forts is K'Dath: The inhabitants of K'Dath claim the city is the first and oldest in the world. It is said that K'Dath is the site of unspeakable rites performed to slake the hunger of mad gods and that even the Shrykes that dwell in the lands south of the city fear it

But if Euron ows his powers to some twisted place, my vote would be Stygai, the City of the Night (upriver from Asshai), a place where not even shadowbinders dare to visit.

K'Dath is far inland, wouldn't be my first pick. Stygai is possible, but we don't know if Ash river is sailable.

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5 hours ago, White Ravens said:

Well I guess this is simply an "agree to disagree" situation.  To me it makes perfect sense.  We don't need to speculate about who "him" is because Euron is describing a future version of himself as the King and refers to that hypothetical self in the third person. 

That's fair. We never know for sure until it's in the book. I am really looking forward to reading all these posts after he reads the book to see which were right and which were wrong :)

 

 

Edit: the "he" I am referring to when I say I look forward to when "he" reads the book is me because that's totally how people speak of future versions of themselves 

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IMO if he was referring to a future version of him he would have used the dynastic title, like 'worth of the King in the Iron Throne' or something. By using 'him', for me, he is referring to someone totally different.

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Certain scholars from the west have suggested Valyrian involvement in the construction of the Five Forts, for the great walls are single slabs of fused black stone that resemble certain Valyrian citadels in the west . . . but this seems unlikely, for the Forts predate the Freehold's rise, and there is no record of any dragonlords ever coming so far east.

What's more interesting to me about the Five Forts is their construction. They are made of a fused smooth black rock. This material is seen in Valyrian construction, but the Five forts predate Valyria. This mystery rock is also in the keep of Oldtown and possibly the seastone chair in the Iron Islands. In both of those cases, its origin is unknown. It sounds almost like obsidian, or dragon glass. So my question is, what is the story behind this material? It's seen all across the world and compared to types of construction in Lorath by the shivering sea. Who built these? When? Why? Is there any connection to the long night? Obsidian repels the Others. I am just curious about the history of these walls. 

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1 minute ago, Argilac Durrandon said:

What's more interesting to me about the Five Forts is their construction. They are made of a fused smooth black rock. This material is seen in Valyrian construction, but the Five forts predate Valyria. This mystery rock is also in the keep of Oldtown and possibly the seastone chair in the Iron Islands. In both of those cases, its origin is unknown. It sounds almost like obsidian, or dragon glass. So my question is, what is the story behind this material? It's seen all across the world and compared to types of construction in Lorath by the shivering sea. Who built these? When? Why? Is there any connection to the long night? Obsidian repels the Others. I am just curious about the history of these walls. 

It was built by the Great Empire of Dawn.

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2 minutes ago, Falcon2908 said:

It was built by the Great Empire of Dawn.

 

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The Great Empire of the Dawn was a mythic realm established on all the land between the Bones and the Grey Waste, from the Shivering Sea to the Jade Sea and including the isle of Leng, and the predecessor to the Golden Empire of Yi Ti.

 

The Great Empire of the Dawn didn't extend to Oldtown, yet this material is obviously the same. It isn't really known who built the Five Forts. I'm looking for a theory that links the Five Forts and keep of Oldtown in terms of construction. 

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2 minutes ago, Argilac Durrandon said:

The Great Empire of the Dawn didn't extend to Oldtown, yet this material is obviously the same. It isn't really known who built the Five Forts. I'm looking for a theory that links the Five Forts and keep of Oldtown in terms of construction. 

You should read the theories posted by LmL:

 

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