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The Anti-Targ

Hypothetically, What if the HBO Show's Final 2 Seasons are so Good that...

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GRRM announces that he's decided not to complete the books, ever, and that the final 2 seasons of the Show are effectively now the story canon, and he will move on completely to other writing projects free from the stress and burden of having to finish ASOIAF?

How would you feel about that?

We have arrived at, I believe, an uprecedented place in book to screen adaptation history where the story on screen will conclude before the story in the book. Has this ever happened in screen adaptation history? It wasn't a thing that either GRRM or HBO or Benioff and Weiss anticipated or wanted when this whole HBO thing got started. But here we are.

I stopped watching the show completely after season 5 because I want to read how the story plays out in the book, unspoiled. Or at least not spoiled any more than the bits of spoilers present in season 5. And it's by far my preferred outcome for the book series to be finished. But I can be pretty OK with a decision by GRRM that the HBO show comes to a more than satisfactory conclusion, and that finishing off the books is not necessary, and he has better and more interesting things to do with his time. Or perhaps write a simplified compendium to the show to summarise and wrap up some of the most interesting story threads that remain in the books that were cut from the show.

Somehow I doubt his publishers would be happy, or let it happen, so I don't think this is anything more than purely hypothetical. But I'd be interested in getting people's comments on how they would feel and what they would do if this actually happened.

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The show is the show and the books are the books, and nowhere has that been more apparent than in these last two season. With so many differing and cut plotlines, I doubt the show ending will quite satisfy many of us.

With all of the material already written for TWoW, it seems unlikely that they wouldn't give it some form of release, even if it's part of that companion book or whatever.

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3 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

GRRM announces that he's decided not to complete the books, ever, and that the final 2 seasons of the Show are effectively now the story canon, and he will move on completely to other writing projects free from the stress and burden of having to finish ASOIAF?

How would you feel about that?

We have arrived at, I believe, an uprecedented place in book to screen adaptation history where the story on screen will conclude before the story in the book. Has this ever happened in screen adaptation history? It wasn't a thing that either GRRM or HBO or Benioff and Weiss anticipated or wanted when this whole HBO thing got started. But here we are.

I stopped watching the show completely after season 5 because I want to read how the story plays out in the book, unspoiled. Or at least not spoiled any more than the bits of spoilers present in season 5. And it's by far my preferred outcome for the book series to be finished. But I can be pretty OK with a decision by GRRM that the HBO show comes to a more than satisfactory conclusion, and that finishing off the books is not necessary, and he has better and more interesting things to do with his time. Or perhaps write a simplified compendium to the show to summarise and wrap up some of the most interesting story threads that remain in the books that were cut from the show.

Somehow I doubt his publishers would be happy, or let it happen, so I don't think this is anything more than purely hypothetical. But I'd be interested in getting people's comments on how they would feel and what they would do if this actually happened.

Thankfully this insane notion will never happen. Not a hope. It would leave thousands cheated.

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GRRM actually revealed how the books are supposed to play out to D&D so that if he dies before he completes the book, D&D are to continue writing it.

 

However, that's a horrible idea, because D&D suck at writing their own show, and they'd do a terrible job at writing a book as complex as ASOIAF.

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17 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

How would you feel about that?

I'd be pretty ropeable.

17 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Has this ever happened in screen adaptation history?

Happens a lot in Japan, the TV shows just spin their wheels until more books come out.

17 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

...I doubt his publishers would be happy, or let it happen...

I reckon they'd have grounds for a lawsuit.

------------------------------------------------

On further reflection:

I saw the show before I read the books. Prior to Game of Thrones, the fantasy genre hadn't done well on film or on TV (henceforth both referred to as film). The original material was usually shit, and if you ever saw something that wasn't shit, it was usually an adaptation, (i.e. Lord of the Rings 1, Harry Potter 6). I never got the thrill of experiencing a good story for the first time in a visual medium until Game of Thrones, and it was a delight. I actually was prepared to leave reading the books until the show was over, just to savour that rare experience. (Naturally, I cracked in the end.)

This is what a lot of people forget, in my view: the show was really good, for at least the first 3 seasons. I agree it's gone to the dogs now, but I have a theory about that: the writing staff, especially Benioff & Weiss, have taken on far too much work.

This isn't an insoluble problem, though, and the idea of the show finishing the story actually wouldn't be totally horrible. I'd trust the producers to do a good job, provided they solved their big problem. They need to hire more people, or they need more time. Of course, the latter option isn't feasible, given the realities of television production. But if they enlarged their writing staff and made the effort to bring the scripts up to the standard of the early seasons, the show could still do the story justice.

Of course, I'd still want those goddamn books.

(And isn't it ironic: GRRM needs to hurry up, and D&D need to slow down.)

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There's nothing to be spoiled at. The show follows its own storyline and George has drifted away from it.

With all the theories of what will or will not happen in the books around here, I find a little zealous stop watching the show. I continue to watch it, with great angst at how lame it is sometimes, but it's a fun watch nonetheless. We've come a long way.

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Nah George would never be that stupid, that announcement would bury him, no self respecting fan of ASOIAF would ever buy or read his stuff.

He would likely just stall until he died, that is much smarter move if he really didn't what to finish the series. But George is not that stupid either, he knows he will never write anything on this scale of quality and quantity and ASOIAF is for better or worse the thing he will be remembered by, only and idiot would just walk away from that, and George is not an idiot.

If impossible happens I would certainly be mildly annoyed, I wouldn't watch a TV show in any case, no way, maybe would read synopsis or something.

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18 hours ago, JWittoBeast said:

GRRM actually revealed how the books are supposed to play out to D&D so that if he dies before he completes the book, D&D are to continue writing it.

 

However, that's a horrible idea, because D&D suck at writing their own show, and they'd do a terrible job at writing a book as complex as ASOIAF.

I'm not sure where you got your information from, but that is completely not true. D&D have been told where each character ends up at the end of the story, but they are not supposed to finish his books if he dies. George has said numerous times that he doesn't want anyone taking over his stuff if he dies before the series is complete. They would tell the ending of the story in the show, but that's it.

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I was sure Winds would be out by March.   Then the notorious 1/1 post.  I actually like the show.   It's wonderful to see the characters come alive and no matter how many Youtubers want to recast I thought the kid who played Ramsay was perfect.   Completely unexpected.  There have been departures from the books that I'm sure would have better served the show by having been integrated, but overall it's not a bad show.  The books, on the other hand, are a marvel.   And I have felt cheated many times.   That's why I began watching the show because I was sure it was the only ending any of us would get.  Now, 6 seasons into the show and what? 7? 8? rereads, enlistment on the forums and bloody maddening research, I know I wouldn't not be the 1st in line to buy Winds, Dream and every short story associated with the series.  If I say I'm not doing it call me a lair and laugh at me loud.   

After the 1/1 post, articles began popping up about unfinished book series.  Oh discordia.   I read them in horror because ASOIAF really isn't finished.  So I watch and wait and hope.   We do not choose what speaks to our hearts.  It's OK to enjoy the story being read, reading with your eyes or watching with your eyes.   It's an amazing story.   I don't think I've ever seen better TV than the episode called Hardhome.  I've read some great books, but never ever have I read anything like ASOIAF.   

Back to scouring asearchoficeandfire for silk.  Is it really silk or does it mean spiders or something else?   Where else will you find this sort of investigative entertainment?       

 

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9 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Would make an awesome April Fools joke though.

Yeah, because you and me would probably find backlash way funnier then Martin would.

Still I will be mighty disappointed if book isn't at least announced by next April.

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I think the main point of the book/show schism is that the show kinda presents the really important characters - characters who will be in for the kill at the end. It also hints that stories such as fAegon, the entire Dornish plot, Ironborn... are just speedbumps, not perhaps as crucially important for the story as many book readers think.

(It would also hint at the main problem with the books: starting so many threads and side stories that, for the book, NEED some conclusion)

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I would hate that idea because the main plot that I'm interested in is the Jaime/Brienne/Stoneheart one and there has been no Stoneheart in the show so I'd be perpetually left hanging never knowing what happened with it.

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I don't think he would ever outright stop. But his time between books is increasing, not decreasing. While I don't think you'll ever see an admission of giving up, I could absolutely see the motivation of finishing it becoming none existant. The peak of ASOIAF and GOT is now. Once the series ends, a lot of the hype and mainstream publicity go with it. It might not become a priority the same way it was.

That's my biggest fear in that regard. It's one thing to be at your peak and get your books out. Basically what Rowling did. Start a hot series, sell the rights for movies, get everyone into an even bigger frenzy over them, then as a writer buckle down and release the books in the midst of that so you are just bombarded with material when everyone can't seem to get enough of it. It's easier to stay motivated that way. You have a clock your on, you have greater rewards.

It's an entirely different thing for the moment to pass, for a segment of fans to have got their conclusion and to have moved on. To have the completion of the novel be a small segment on the news "popular book series that was the basis for that great show Game of Thrones, remember that, is finally being completed".

Either way, I think a massive opportunity was missed with him potentially only releasing one book at the very start of the show and, if we are fortunate, another one at the tail end of it when most of the plot has caught up or moved past it.

 

 

 

 

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I'd be pretty gutted. I watched season 1 and was intrigued so I read the books which blew my mind. After S4 the show became silly but I don't get upset because I know the books are coming. Take that away and i'll be pissed.

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Curled Finger I agree with you wholeheartedly.  I started out reading the books, I only started watching the series this year (binge watched all 6 seasons).  They have been different animals all along.  I had hoped to see Book 6 sometime this year, that doesn't seem all that likely now so I am hoping that WoW will be out around summer of 2017.  After that though who knows?  Will we ever see Book 7?  If we do it won't be for quite a while.  The pressure to finish before the series will be over, so GRRM can take his time.  If you know the ending, and let's face it, not knowing will be pretty much impossible, no matter how unsatisfying the manner in which you find it, will have an effect.  I'll be honest, I won't be pre-ordering Book 7.

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