Marvel Cinematic Universe General Discussion 6: Just Send Me a Raven T-Bone

[Winterfell is Burning]

Also, keep in mind is that Tony is one of the few, if not the only person in the world that we seen can see that can build technology that can match the best Wakanda has to offer- it certainly makes sense Wakandans would try to keep a positive relationship with him.

[The Anti-Targ]

5 hours ago, Kalbear said:

Kenya does it; I don't see why it'd be weird for Wakanda. 

As does Fiji.

[mormont]

11 hours ago, RumHam said:

Ah ok, none of this has yet been established in the MCU. From Ross' description I figured they were believed to be the type of place plauged by famine and civil unrest.

Other than the phrase 'third world country' there's nothing in his description to suggest that, that I can recall?

11 hours ago, RumHam said:

Right, but Ross should think about it was my point. Especially after the events of Civil War. I mean he saw their king kicking ass in a fancy bulletproof suit. So unless that Klau scene is set pre-civil war I still think it's a little odd that that's his impression of Wakanda. Unless as someone suggested before he's giving the official cover story. 

Thinking about it, I think the reason I thought this is that T'Challa is in on the interrogation and his reaction doesn't suggest to me he's worried about Ross discovering the big secret. But I guess we'll see.

[Myrddin]

My assumption watching the trailer was that Ross was in on the secret and was merely T'Challa's proxy in the interview room, trying to figure out how much Gollum knew.

[polishgenius]

My assumption watching the trailer was that Marvel just wanted to chuck in a scene where Bilbo and Gollum are chatting one-on-one, regardless of how they have to fudge the timeline of who knows what when about Wakanda to do so...

[Corvinus85]

45 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

My assumption watching the trailer was that Marvel just wanted to chuck in a scene where Bilbo and Gollum are chatting one-on-one, regardless of how they have to fudge the timeline of who knows what when about Wakanda to do so...

Wait till Freeman's character meets Dr. Strange. 

[polishgenius]

2 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

Wait till Freeman's character meets Dr. Strange. 

Well let's be fair if I want to see that I've got 13 episodes of Sherlock.

[The Anti-Targ]

39 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

Well let's be fair if I want to see that I've got 13 episodes of Sherlock.

Doesn't count. Because Sherlock came before TH:DoS, that movie is Sherlock and Watson on a bad (or good depending on your perspective) acid trip.

[The Anti-Targ]

8 hours ago, Corvinus said:

Wait till Freeman's character meets Dr. Strange. 

If they do ever meet in the MCU, it would be cool for one of them to have a line that includes a phrase like "desolation of smog".

I thought one interesting critique of Wonder Woman by CBG19, which is relevant to Capt Marvel, and something I worry about with the casting of Brie Larsen is that Gal Gadot's physique is not athletic. Her arms and legs totally lack muscle definition, in favour of a physique that is more classically attractive. Having undergone a lot of intense training over many years you'd expect WW to at least have good muscle tone. Perhaps as a goddess she does not develop ,muscles from exercise, since a god's physical strength does not come from ordinary muscle power but from magical / metaphysical / extra-dimensional power.

Captain Marvel doesn't get "magical properties" until she has well and truly gone through military and combat training. So Brie needs to get some decent muscle tone and at least a bit of muscle bulk. She doesn't have to go all out like Linda Carter in T2. But I think the sort of build Emily Blunt managed for Edge of Tomorrow is pretty much what Larsen needs to achieve.

[mormont]

10 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

She doesn't have to go all out like Linda Carter in T2.

That was Linda Hamilton. The WW mention may have got you confused.

[The Anti-Targ]

5 hours ago, mormont said:

That was Linda Hamilton. The WW mention may have got you confused.

Ha Ha. I'll take it.

[Leofric]

17 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

If they do ever meet in the MCU, it would be cool for one of them to have a line that includes a phrase like "desolation of smog".

I thought one interesting critique of Wonder Woman by CBG19, which is relevant to Capt Marvel, and something I worry about with the casting of Brie Larsen is that Gal Gadot's physique is not athletic. Her arms and legs totally lack muscle definition, in favour of a physique that is more classically attractive. Having undergone a lot of intense training over many years you'd expect WW to at least have good muscle tone. Perhaps as a goddess she does not develop ,muscles from exercise, since a god's physical strength does not come from ordinary muscle power but from magical / metaphysical / extra-dimensional power.

Captain Marvel doesn't get "magical properties" until she has well and truly gone through military and combat training. So Brie needs to get some decent muscle tone and at least a bit of muscle bulk. She doesn't have to go all out like Linda Carter in T2. But I think the sort of build Emily Blunt managed for Edge of Tomorrow is pretty much what Larsen needs to achieve.

The bolded actually has always bothered me about Superman, he's so incredibly strong even as a child how could he work out enough to build such a muscular physique, why isn't he just scrawny, or even overweight as he'd have to push mountains around to even work up a sweat.

This may be why I loved the workout scenes when Mr. Incredible was getting back in shape.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

12 minutes ago, Leofric said:

The bolded actually has always bothered me about Superman, he's so incredibly strong even as a child how could he work out enough to build such a muscular physique, why isn't he just scrawny, or even overweight as he'd have to push mountains around to even work up a sweat.

This may be why I loved the workout scenes when Mr. Incredible was getting back in shape.

Its interesting actually. Although isn't Superman's strength something to do with the Sun and the difference between Earth and his home planet? You can imagine there is some point where gravity has an effect on his muscles enough to make them grow as he exerts pressure. Plus he's not even human so god knows how his body works.

[Bastard of Boston]

I think there's a thin line between actors hitting the gym for more superhero-level physiques and returning to the days when professional wrestlers were cast in these movies. I'll take someone who can breathe life into a character over someone with a comics-accurate physique. I think the Chris Hemsworths of the world have spoiled us by looking and acting the part. Obviously, it's hard to train as much as they do for these roles. It makes Chris Evans miserable enough to go on record saying it makes him miserable. I read a really good article I need to find again about Hollywood and the new training obsession.

All these characters achieve their abilities through supernatural means, so their physique isn't exactly tied to their strength. While it would be great if Gal Gadot and Brie Larson developed the athletic builds to really sell these roles, I'm hesitant to put that kind of pressure on someone. And this is coming from a reformed nerd who used to always nitpick appearances of actors playing heroes. They're creating literal CGI actors these days (Rogue One), surely they can CGI a gratuitous bicep in every once in awhile. It's sick to think about how much Chris Evans trained for that one money shot in Civil War -- the helicopter scene. I'd be happy with Brie whether she puts on 10 pounds of muscle or not.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

Comics have been drawing people in superhuman ways for decades, men have beem getting bigger and more ripper the whole time, our expectations have changed as to what a superhuman looks like, I'd go as far as to say with our obsession with looks and gyms , our view of what a man looks like has changed hugely too.

 

[HexMachina]

I dislike the obsession of actors having to meet a certain body type/musculature to land a role. Body image is something really important to me so the idea of actors and actresses having to undergo such extreme changes to their body just to land or keep a role concerns me, both because of the impact that has on them and the message it sends out to wider audiences ("This is 'hot' now and you should all aspire to this"). I don't expect it to change anytime soon but whatever, I still think it's not a healthy outlook.

I'm also going to shock myself by agreeing with C4JS and say I think our view of what men should look like has changed too with the whole gym obsession (though I would add I think that applies to women too, although to a slightly lesser extent - the trendy thing now is 'fitspo' not 'thinspo' for whatever gender). I think the obsession is unhealthy and responsible for a lot of body image issues/body dysmorphia. But I'll retire to my cave now because I doubt there's enough concern for that to change.

[The Anti-Targ]

On 2017-6-15 at 10:54 AM, Bastard of Boston said:

I think there's a thin line between actors hitting the gym for more superhero-level physiques and returning to the days when professional wrestlers were cast in these movies. I'll take someone who can breathe life into a character over someone with a comics-accurate physique. I think the Chris Hemsworths of the world have spoiled us by looking and acting the part. Obviously, it's hard to train as much as they do for these roles. It makes Chris Evans miserable enough to go on record saying it makes him miserable. I read a really good article I need to find again about Hollywood and the new training obsession.

All these characters achieve their abilities through supernatural means, so their physique isn't exactly tied to their strength. While it would be great if Gal Gadot and Brie Larson developed the athletic builds to really sell these roles, I'm hesitant to put that kind of pressure on someone. And this is coming from a reformed nerd who used to always nitpick appearances of actors playing heroes. They're creating literal CGI actors these days (Rogue One), surely they can CGI a gratuitous bicep in every once in awhile. It's sick to think about how much Chris Evans trained for that one money shot in Civil War -- the helicopter scene. I'd be happy with Brie whether she puts on 10 pounds of muscle or not.

There is that option of CGI enhancements a la 300, where I understand there was some digital enhancement of abs and pecs.

I think in the case of Capt. Marvel athleticism is character consistent. Since she is pretty well into adulthood before she becomes enhanced. She is meant to be skilled at close combat, and of course is military and not merely a desk jockey functionary. So I would like to see her as buff as Emily Blunt in Edge of Tomorrow. Which is to say good muscle definition but not bulked out like a female pro wrestler. I don't think that's too much to ask, and would certainly not demand a gym and diet schedule like that demanded of Chris Evans.

Chris Hemsworth is special in so many ways, and Mavel is very lucky to have him.

A character like Jessica Jones, by contrast, suits being like a stick thin model, since she was not at all an atheletic type before she got suped up.

When it comes to Capt. Marvel I'm probably overly pedantic. I've said in these threads several times that I really wanted her to be played by a tall actor. Because I feel like she is meant to be fairly impressive physically, and be able to look a lot of the male Avengers square in the eye, and even look someone like Thor square in the chin. So my main gripe about Larsen was she's too short. And my ideal actor for her is Charlize Theron. She pretty much has all the qualities one would look for in casting Capt. Marvel. I've come to terms with Brie's height, but I would like her to put some effort into making her physique character consistent.

If fricken Maisie Williams can teach herself to convincingly use a sword left handed, Brie Larsen can damned well do some push ups and sit ups to prep for the role.

[Relic]

9 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

I've said in these threads several times that I really wanted her to be played by a tall actor.

Have you never seen a Tom Cruise movie? 

[Myrddin]

To me, it's more important that she feel like an Air Force officer than ripped and fit. She should have a command presence. I can see her walking into a room full of Avengers and taking her place with the "command" crew (Tony, Steve, Fury), not sit back and wait for orders.

I guess I'm looking for no-nonsense military attitude over muscles.

[red snow]

On 15/06/2017 at 9:21 AM, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Comics have been drawing people in superhuman ways for decades, men have beem getting bigger and more ripper the whole time, our expectations have changed as to what a superhuman looks like, I'd go as far as to say with our obsession with looks and gyms , our view of what a man looks like has changed hugely too.

 

It's odd how they have turned more into dehydrated super muscles over the decades. Spidey was originally still a weedy teenager whose strength came from his powers (although in his case it makes sense he became more ripped over time). Superman had the appearance of circus strongmen where they weren't carrying 12 packs and every muscle was super defined (they were still strong).

I think the problem with some of the physiques we see in films these days is that they aren't actually that functional. Chris Evans admitted he had to give up a lot of his sporting activities because he was simply too big which flies in the face of what Captain America should be able to do. How fast can Chris Hemsworth run? (although it's slightly moot when Thor can fly). Can Hugh Jackman really run and leap in his "my veins are like regular humans' fingers"?

Tom Holland seems to be striking a decent compromise in that he appears to be able to do quite a bit of gymastic work so his strength is functional.

4 hours ago, Relic said:

Have you never seen a Tom Cruise movie? 

Exactly, they can make Brie Larson appear to be the tallest member of the Avengers if they want to.

1 hour ago, Myrddin said:

To me, it's more important that she feel like an Air Force officer than ripped and fit. She should have a command presence. I can see her walking into a room full of Avengers and taking her place with the "command" crew (Tony, Steve, Fury), not sit back and wait for orders.

I guess I'm looking for no-nonsense military attitude over muscles.

This makes sense to me to. Someone whose tall but can't give off that sense of authority is missing the point more than a shorter actor who can. Are air force and army "captains" equivalent? Just curious as to whether there'd be a sense of chain of command between her and Cap.