House Reed - mystery

[fire&blood]

I find this House to be so fascinating. What do we know about them and what can we piece together based on what GRRM has given us? Based on the books, it sounds like they are directly linked to the COTF. They are small in stature with green leaf colored eyes with a castle that "moves" (Greywater Watch). They're northerners who believe in the old gods with a strong connection to the Starks.  Jojen is called "little grandfather" because he seems to know everything and is connected to Bran...he personally has strong magical ties and abilities with his visions.  Howland is the only one who survived with Ned at the TOJ. Meera is the one helping Bran find the 3ER. There's also the Howland/Lyanna connection at the Harrnehal tourney which the theory is that she's the mysterious knight (a story Meera tells Bran and Jojen Is surprised that Ned never told him about TKOTLT). 

Why is Meera helping Bran? What do we know about her? And why did Howland protect Ned's promise to Lyanna? Please share any ideas or theories you have on the Reeds.

[Mat92]

I would say Meera and Jojen were helping Bran simply because of Howland and Ned's - friendship?
I'm not even sure how close Ned and Howland were. I don't remember reading about Howland ever visiting Winterfell after Robert's Rebellion - something that the other Northern lords would have done on occasion (the birth of Ned's children, etc). They can't be that close, but they seemed to have a high respect for each other. Perhaps the memory of the Tower of Joy was too painful for either of them which is why they stayed away from each other.

I have always suspected that Howland is also a green-seer: it fits with his lifestyle and his house's connection with the CotF, he might have even be able to train Jojen a little. I think this is also how he knew to send Jojen and Meera to Bran. I seem to recall that Jojen told Howland about the dream he had, but it would make sense if Howland is used to these dreams and how real they are/can be. This is all speculation on my part, but it's not implausible. 

As for why did Howland protect Ned's secret - I think this comes down to just honour. I don't want to bring the show into this discussion, but if the fight ended similarly, I guess there's a sense of shame on Howland's behalf - he might want to keep the secret to show he can be honourable.

[Mat92]

I agree with you though, there's not a great deal that we know about the Reed house, and we've had no POV characters that have been through the crannogs or been to Greywater Watch. Very mysterious. 

[fire&blood]

2 hours ago, Mat92 said:

I would say Meera and Jojen were helping Bran simply because of Howland and Ned's - friendship?
I'm not even sure how close Ned and Howland were. I don't remember reading about Howland ever visiting Winterfell after Robert's Rebellion - something that the other Northern lords would have done on occasion (the birth of Ned's children, etc). They can't be that close, but they seemed to have a high respect for each other. Perhaps the memory of the Tower of Joy was too painful for either of them which is why they stayed away from each other.
 

Right! We never hear about the Reed's being in WF before and Bran even asks who they are indicating this is their first time at WF. I forgot that it was Howland's doing that he sent his children to Bran. It does make it seem like he himself was a greenseer. It's very interesting that we know nothing about the only "moving castle" in the kingdom and the mysterious crannogmen. I wonder if it's a setup for a greater purpose later in the series...I keep hearing people theorizing that Meera is more than we think she is. Could that be why Howland held tightly to the secret of Jon. So many questions  thanks for sharing 

[cgrav]

Howland Reed has to show up at Winterfell soon. His kids have been missing for like 3 years, there's no way he's just gonna shrug it off and not go where they they said they were going when they left.

[fire&blood]

23 minutes ago, cgrav said:

Howland Reed has to show up at Winterfell soon. His kids have been missing for like 3 years, there's no way he's just gonna shrug it off and not go where they they said they were going when they left.

I agree with you that he needs to make an appearance soon because we've been reading and hearing about him too long...even the show made his character appear  (at a very significant scene that everyone, even non readers, have been waiting for), but I wonder if he already saw what happens to his children before he sent them? Maybe he knew he would need to sacrifice them for the greater good? 

[Mat92]

42 minutes ago, fire&blood said:

 I wonder if he already saw what happens to his children before he sent them? Maybe he knew he would need to sacrifice them for the greater good? 

agree, this supports my theory of him being a green-seer. I think green-seeing is definite (visions of the future that cannot be changed) whereas Bran's weir wood visions show the current future that can be prevented. That's the difference between the two (in my mind). Or at least, green-seeing is more symbolic/cryptic (the sea coming over the walls at Winterfell for example). 

So Howland knew that he had to send his kids no matter what.

1 hour ago, cgrav said:

Howland Reed has to show up at Winterfell soon. His kids have been missing for like 3 years, there's no way he's just gonna shrug it off and not go where they they said they were going when they left.

II wonder if he will turn up because of this, but I doubt it. If he is a green-seer then he might have visions of where he needs to be.
If he's not, then he might turn up looking for them, especially once the North is unified behind Stannis or Jon and he hears Winterfell is retaken. 

Either way, no way he's not going to surface before the end of the books. I really hope we learn more of Greywater Watch through one of the characters, but I'm not sure who.

Also, is it possible he thought his kids died years before?
He sent Jojen and Meera off after Jojen's "sea coming over Winterfell's walls" vision - once he heard of the Ironborn taking Winterfell and Bran and Rickon being "killed" perhaps he thought that they had been killed too? I doubt he'd have access to the information that they got away. Unless he's a green-seer, in which case perhaps he does know.

[Ashes Of Westeros]

I agree that Howland Reed posesses some ability to foresee the future, so probably he's aware where his children are.

I have an idea that Howland is actually in Winterfell and he is the hooded man, which Theon meets in Winterfell. I have no real prove, but misterious killings is a kind of tactic crannogmen would use. 

[The North Forgot]

I'm not so sure about the Howland being a greenseer bit since we don't have any real info on him except him and Ned being buddies. Still, I totally believe Howland's appearance will be important in the story for a few reasons.

1. He might be the one to confirm R+L, either through a PoV or by some other evidence (Rhaegars's harp in the crypt anyone?)

2. House Reed is strongly connected to the Old Gods and the Children

3. We don't even know their words, could it have something to do with why Jojen and Meera did that whole "We swear it by ice and fire" thing?

[Adam Yozza]

I don't know about him being a Green Seer; after all, he knew his children had escaped Winterfell and were still alive. The point of Theon keeping them hostage was to force the crannogmen to stop attacking Vic's army at the Moat. Yet in Dance we see that he's since resumed these attacks and done some pretty serious damage to the Ironborn garrison. 

[devilish]

The Crannogmen are for the North what the Dornish people are for Westeros. They are nearly unconquerable on their soil but they melt like snow in summer outside of it. Meera is helping Bran regain his crown. After that, her chances of ending Ms Stark will rise exponentially

[Balerion's Whiskers]

Howland Reed spent a year on the Isle of Faces with the greenmen before paddling off to the Harrenhal tourney. NO ONE is supposed to be able to land on the Isle of Faces. We have reports of storms, winds and high waters preventing folks from landing, yet HR did and was apparently welcomed. I find this very curious and lets me think there is more to HR than meets the eye. GRRM as also said we'll see the Isle of Faces before everything is said and done.

[Mat92]

1 hour ago, Balerion's Whiskers said:

Howland Reed spent a year on the Isle of Faces with the greenmen before paddling off to the Harrenhal tourney. NO ONE is supposed to be able to land on the Isle of Faces. We have reports of storms, winds and high waters preventing folks from landing, yet HR did and was apparently welcomed. I find this very curious and lets me think there is more to HR than meets the eye. GRRM as also said we'll see the Isle of Faces before everything is said and done.

On my re-read, that is who I thought was Howland. However, I think I mentioned this on another thread and it may have been sorta disproven (although not definitively). This is what made me start to think Howland is a green-seer in the first place. 

I didn't know George said that! That would be cool. 

[Balerion's Whiskers]

I believe that the crannogman who visited the Isle of Faces was HR...as well as the crannogman who the KotLT defended at Harrenhal. I've read the series 9 times now and haven't been able to come to a different conclusion. This was also where HR and Ned formed their bond of friendship. Without Harrenhal, HR would have never been at the TOJ.

HR had to have some sort of insight or vision to send his children and heirs to Bran, even if Jojen had greendreams, HR must have a bit of the sight as well, so yes,I think he may have either greendreams or greensight too.

Also, what's up with the old iron greathelm that Meera hauls with them? There are no knights, master at arms or maesters at Greywater Watch? Iron is from the First Men...(anyone who fought at the TOJ would have had steel, so there is no connection to that)

[cgrav]

If Howland is a Greenseer that adds quite a bit of mystery to all the Tower of Joy stuff. How much of all that did he know ahead of time?

The greensight takes an interesting tack on the prophecy thing, because Jojen seems completely surrendered to the futures he sees. With everyone they fulfill the prophecy by trying to avoid it, but Jojen Reed fulfills it with complete passivity. 

17 minutes ago, Balerion's Whiskers said:

Also, what's up with the old iron greathelm that Meera hauls with them? 

Cooking and boiling?

[Little Scribe of Naath]

Howland Reed is the most curious character in the entire series.

If this guy went to the Isle of Faces and stayed there for a year, he must have communed in some way with BR and the COTF, through the weirwood network.

From whatever we see with Jojen and Meera, he seems to be a pretty decent father. What did he learn there, I wonder, which prompted him to send off his own children on this mission? Especially, he must have known that Jojen has seen his own death. What kind of parent knowingly lets their own child go off to his death?

One explanation is that he knows/has some assurance from BR/COTF that Meera and Jojen will not be harmed in this mission with Bran, whatever it is.

[Lady Lark of the NorthWood]

And dang it, this is one mystery that I want solved in the book, not the show!

[Dorian Martell]

20 hours ago, fire&blood said:

I find this House to be so fascinating. What do we know about them and what can we piece together based on what GRRM has given us? Based on the books, it sounds like they are directly linked to the COTF. They are small in stature with green leaf colored eyes with a castle that "moves" (Greywater Watch). They're northerners who believe in the old gods with a strong connection to the Starks.  Jojen is called "little grandfather" because he seems to know everything and is connected to Bran...he personally has strong magical ties and abilities with his visions.  Howland is the only one who survived with Ned at the TOJ. Meera is the one helping Bran find the 3ER. There's also the Howland/Lyanna connection at the Harrnehal tourney which the theory is that she's the mysterious knight (a story Meera tells Bran and Jojen Is surprised that Ned never told him about TKOTLT). 

Why is Meera helping Bran? What do we know about her? And why did Howland protect Ned's promise to Lyanna? Please share any ideas or theories you have on the Reeds.

Only Jojen has green eyes that we know of and that was after he nearly died from an illness. Also, Jojen has no real magical abilities aside from his prophetic dreams. while the crannogmen were close to the children, that was thousands of years ago and long before they were conquered by the Starks. Meera and Jojen are helping Bran because their dad told them too based on information from one of Jojen's greendreams.  Howland is protecting Ned's promise to Lyanna because his leige lord commanded him to.  A major question is why Howland hasn't left the neck since he returned from the south with Ned. Was he injured? He was unable to keep the secret from his kids, so maybe he stayed in the neck knowing that the crannogmen almost never leave?  

[PrettyPig]

2 hours ago, Dorian Martell said:

A major question is why Howland hasn't left the neck since he returned from the south with Ned. Was he injured? He was unable to keep the secret from his kids, so maybe he stayed in the neck knowing that the crannogmen almost never leave?  

A longtime crackpot of mine is that Howland is actually unable to leave the Neck - something is holding him back physically (think Bloodraven in the tree) or mentally (a vow or a guardianship).  This is why he sends his kids on the Bran mission, why he doesn't personally appear to fight for Robb, etc. 

The Reeds make point over and over again that they are sworn to Winterfell.   Not House Stark, not Ned or Bran or any other Stark...Winterfell.  May be nothing, but my gut tells me the difference is significant, like the Reeds are entrusted to something.

[Dorian Martell]

1 hour ago, PrettyPig said:

A longtime crackpot of mine is that Howland is actually unable to leave the Neck - something is holding him back physically (think Bloodraven in the tree) or mentally (a vow or a guardianship).  This is why he sends his kids on the Bran mission, why he doesn't personally appear to fight for Robb, etc. 

The Reeds make point over and over again that they are sworn to Winterfell.   Not House Stark, not Ned or Bran or any other Stark...Winterfell.  May be nothing, but my gut tells me the difference is significant, like the Reeds are entrusted to something.

I figure an injury at the TOJ keeps him in the neck.
Winterfell=Starks in the story. It is stated time and time again. the Bolton hold on the north depends on hostages and not the devotion inspired by the Starks. The liddle in the cave talks to Bran and company about a better time when there was a stark in winterfell. the mountain clans join stannis to rescue a daughter of the Ned. The whole north rallies around the next son of winterfell even though he is only 15. He has a direwolf though.