House Reed - mystery

[Mat92]

12 hours ago, cgrav said:

If Howland is a Greenseer that adds quite a bit of mystery to all the Tower of Joy stuff. How much of all that did he know ahead of time?

Wow that's something I never thought of before.

This could possibly be a huge factor in why Ned and Howland haven't seen each other in a while. Howland told Ned what was going to happen at the ToJ but perhaps he interpreted the signs incorrectly, leading to Lyanna's death? Something like that would explain their disconnect. It's possible.
 

2 hours ago, PrettyPig said:

A longtime crackpot of mine is that Howland is actually unable to leave the Neck - something is holding him back physically (think Bloodraven in the tree) or mentally (a vow or a guardianship).  This is why he sends his kids on the Bran mission, why he doesn't personally appear to fight for Robb, etc. 

This is really interesting. I think the difference here is that the "Bloodraven in tree" thing seems more connected to Wargs compared to Green-Seers. Not saying it's not possible of course, really interesting theory!

[Balerion's Whiskers]

13 hours ago, Dorian Martell said:

Only Jojen has green eyes that we know of and that was after he nearly died from an illness.

Can you help me with the quote where this happened? I've seen a number of folks refer to Jojen's eyes turning green after the fever but haven't been able to find it in the books. His green eyes are mentioned numerous times but I haven't been able to find the connecting link where the text says they turned green. I've searched Bran's chapters for 'green' and 'fever' and the only reference I've found to his illness, does not mention that his eyes turned green.

Quote

Did the crow have three eyes?

Jojen nodded

Summer raised his head from Bran's lap, and gazed at the mudman with his dark golden eyes

. "When I was little I almost died of greywater fever. That was when the crow came to me."

They were talking about the three eyed crow. Is there another spot where they discussed his illness?

[Dorian Martell]

3 hours ago, Balerion's Whiskers said:

Can you help me with the quote where this happened? I've seen a number of folks refer to Jojen's eyes turning green after the fever but haven't been able to find it in the books. His green eyes are mentioned numerous times but I haven't been able to find the connecting link where the text says they turned green. I've searched Bran's chapters for 'green' and 'fever' and the only reference I've found to his illness, does not mention that his eyes turned green.

They were talking about the three eyed crow. Is there another spot where they discussed his illness?

I seem to remember in a past reading that he says his eyes turned moss green but going back now I cannot seem to find the passage. I read it on Ibooks and the search function seems broken. On upon looking at the chapter in question, his eyes are not in any way described as green. they are described as moss. Moss can be green but his eyes are not specifically described as such
“Jojen’s eyes were the color of moss, and sometimes when he looked at you he seemed to be seeing something else. Like now. “I dreamed of a winged wolf bound to earth with grey stone chains,” he said. “It was a green dream, so I knew it was true. A crow was trying to peck through the chains, but the stone was too hard and his beak could only chip at them.”

 

[Ghost of Blackhaven]

Personally, I'm still holding out for the R+L=J+M theory I've seen before. I think it would make sense for Howland to stay in the Neck if he was raising a second secret Targaryen descendant. I would link to the actual theory but I read it awhile ago and didn't bookmark it. Also, I don't remember if the ages for Jon and Meera line up or not.

[Balerion's Whiskers]

@Dorian Martell here a passage where GRRM tells us that Jojen's moss colored eyes were indeed green.

Quote

Jojen's eyes were a dark green, the color of moss, but heavy with a weariness that Bran had never seen in them before.

I did a search for 'moss' in Bran's pov's and while he does say many times that Jojen's eyes are the color of moss and that his eyes are green, nowhere do I find that his eyes turned that color after his birth.

I've seen a number of references to Jojen's eyes changing to green after his illness, but can't back it up in the text. I'd love to be able to lay eyes on that quote.

Back to the OP....since Howland visited the Isle of Faces and lived with the greenmen, there has to be some sort of connection there. There could be a TOJ connection, although I think to give Ned the advantage, that HR tossed his net over Arthur Dayne like Meera did Summer.

 

[Frey family reunion]

1 hour ago, Balerion's Whiskers said:

@Dorian Martell here a passage where GRRM tells us that Jojen's moss colored eyes were indeed green.

I did a search for 'moss' in Bran's pov's and while he does say many times that Jojen's eyes are the color of moss and that his eyes are green, nowhere do I find that his eyes turned that color after his birth.

I've seen a number of references to Jojen's eyes changing to green after his illness, but can't back it up in the text. I'd love to be able to lay eyes on that quote.

Back to the OP....since Howland visited the Isle of Faces and lived with the greenmen, there has to be some sort of connection there. There could be a TOJ connection, although I think to give Ned the advantage, that HR tossed his net over Arthur Dayne like Meera did Summer.

 

I thought that the books said it as well, but like you I can't find it.  What I think may have happened, like much of what is bandied about on this forum, people start to take theories as canon, and base other theories off certain assumptions.  For example, you will hear many people say that Aerys had Gerold Hightower go to the tower of joy to summon Rhaegar.  Yet that is never actually stated in any of the books (including the Worldbook).  It comes from someone's assumption on the wiki, and since GRRM didn't say it was false, it's now taken to be canon. 

The Jojen Reed's eye change assumption comes from what Brynden Rivers tells Bran:

Quote

"In a sense.  Those you call the children of the forest have eyes as golden as the sun, but once in a great while one is born amongst them with eyes as red as blood, or green as the moss on a tree in the heart of the forest.  By these signs do the gods mark those they have chose to receive the gift.  The chosen ones are not robust, and their quick years upon the earth are few, for every song must have its balance..."

So someone saw the similarity between this description of a COTF and Jojen.  And since Jojen wasn't born with greensight, but only developed it after an illness, someone probably theorized that his eyes didn't change color until he received his greensight.  Of course that ignores a number of things, but eventually it appears that this theory became canon in this forum.

[Balerion's Whiskers]

12 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

So someone saw the similarity between this description of a COTF and Jojen.  And since Jojen wasn't born with greensight, but only developed it after an illness, someone probably theorized that his eyes didn't change color until he received his greensight.  Of course that ignores a number of things, but eventually it appears that this theory became canon in this forum.

Thank you.

That's what I figured as well, but there have just been so many different ones who noted the eye color change that I thought I was missing it....and have read Bran's chapters with a special awareness to be alert for it...but the text never materialized. The Bloodrven quote I dismissed because he specifically says they were born that way...but I can see where the confusion was started.

 

[spauldo17]

On ‎9‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 1:22 PM, Ghost of Blackhaven said:

Personally, I'm still holding out for the R+L=J+M theory I've seen before. I think it would make sense for Howland to stay in the Neck if he was raising a second secret Targaryen descendant. I would link to the actual theory but I read it awhile ago and didn't bookmark it. Also, I don't remember if the ages for Jon and Meera line up or not.

This theory is very interesting, but seems pointless and baseless. 

I have read this many times, but what are we basing it off of?  That we think it would be cool?

There are no mentions to it in the story.  The hints, though subtle, about R+L=J were abundant all through the story line.  It seems to me that we just got carried away and now we want R+L to equal more and more. 

Yes, meera and jon are similar in age, similar not the same.  Yes they look vaguely alike, but that can be said for many living in the north. 

Besides what good would it do the story?  GRRM is beginning to wrap things up and tie up loose ends, not introduce new things like this.  It would seem like pandering to the fans, "Here is the big reveal...Jon is a targaryen!! oh also meera, yes meera is also a secret targaryen."  It's so empty.

And where would she fit in the story?  A dragon rider? A stark noble?  a threat to Dany's claim on the throne?  its just too muddled, it seems very unlikely, and honestly not something that I would want to happen