Heresy 191 The Crows

[Brad Stark]

I should probably reread, rather than asking here, but is it possible the raven is saying the word "horn" and not "corn"?  1 horn blast means rangers, 2 means wildlings, 3 for Others.  Could the number of times "horn" is said refer to the same?

[Black Crow]

12 hours ago, Brad Stark said:

I reread a few parts, and the hearesy thread on Moremont's raven, and came away with the opinion the raven doesn't actually like or want corn.  The passage about this Raven being unusual for liking corn was meant as a hint the opposite is true - the raven's food preference is not unusual and there is a different reason he is saying the word "corn".

It's certainly made pretty obvious that the bird prefers bacon,

Corn and King are very explicitly linked, which is why its well to be wary of the the bird proclaiming him King Jon Targaryen as some fondly  believe; instead its the Corn King.

Mind you, its also worth bearing in mind that Bran was taking corn to the crows at the top of the tower.

[Black Crow]

7 hours ago, Brad Stark said:

I should probably reread, rather than asking here, but is it possible the raven is saying the word "horn" and not "corn"?  1 horn blast means rangers, 2 means wildlings, 3 for Others.  Could the number of times "horn" is said refer to the same?

Nah, definitely corn.

 

As I just said above you also need to bear in mind the Bran connection, bringing the corn to the crows

[Brad Stark]

I think the raven thinks 'corn' means food in general, not just grain.  He says 'corn' when someone is about to die and become food for crows and ravens.  We even have a book titled "A Feast for Crows".

[Melifeather]

On 9/9/2016 at 9:31 AM, The Snowfyre Chorus said:

Likewise... I didn't intent for my comment to seem overly critical of your comment.  Sorry if it came across that way - I really meant to be agreeing with you.  I just feel a need to clarify the "no gods" reference every now and then.  

I think this is a good direction. Though I'd be inclined to wonder more about the relationship between the crows and the weirwoods, specifically. Seems odd to me that Bloodraven would confirm that all the crows have singers in them, given that the singers themselves are extraordinarily long-lived... and so far as we know, the ravens are just ordinary birds.  How long does a raven live, anyway?  Surely not so long as the singers themselves?  And yet we have this exchange here:

The analogy to Bran's connection with Summer suggests that this particular raven was the familiar of a specific singer. But that singer is "long dead." And ravens live (hold on... consulting ye olde Google)... uh, wow, possibly 70 years in captivity. Impressive. Still... Leaf went on a 200 year walkabout, before deciding to head home for a nap. And what are the chances that "all" the birds lost singer-companions who died within the past 70 years?  Or are Westerosi ravens particularly long-lived?  

Hmm. Questions, questions. 

The idea I sort of like, and that I was trying to work my way toward, is that the ravens operate as an extension of the weirwoods... in the sense that both are receptacles of a sort for those who sing the song of earth, after death. Jojen doesn't mention ravens, but I'm wondering if they don't fit into this process somewhere:

 

Just typing "out loud" now, and tossing ideas out there. So here's one more seemingly random question... Do we know of any female greenseers?  It's interesting to me that Bran encounters a woman singer in the raven... and that Jojen speaks of males in that passage I just quoted.  (Probably nothing. Male pronouns are the default in these books. Just made me wonder.)

It has occurred to me that perhaps the ravens are the godhead? If every raven has the shadow of a singer in them, and when the singers die they join the godhead, then doesn't it seem logical that the ravens are the godhead? I agree that the ravens operate as an extension of the weirwoods...almost as if they are the leaves, but if we were to consider them as being the godhead then it would explain why they seem ageless, and how they seem to operate in unison. Coldhands isn't controlling them, but rather he's tapped into the godhead, and maybe it's the godhead that is controlling Coldhands?

[Black Crow]

34 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

It has occurred to me that perhaps the ravens are the godhead? If every raven has the shadow of a singer in them, and when the singers die they join the godhead, then doesn't it seem logical that the ravens are the godhead? 

A good point, although I'm not so sure its necessarily that explicit. The crows/ravens are a part of it and what takes it beyond the trees as illustrated by the Blackwood arms. I don't think, in other words, its necessary to draw a definite distinction.

[Black Crow]

5 minutes ago, Cowboy Dan said:

Hey there everyone, been meaning to pop into these threads for a while now after being recommended by @Feather Crystal but haven't had the time to catch up on reading everything so I figure this is the perfect time to get involved. I have some thoughts on timelines when we get around to that essay but in the mean time I'll stick to the current thread.

 

Welcome to Heresy. There's some good thoughts in there so forgive me if I take my time in responding to them individually, although I will say that the Summer King/Winter King is something that's been around in Heresy for a long time and is also known by the term Corn King, which has been touched on above.

The seagulls are an interesting angle we haven't touched upon before and given the stuff about the seas and what's in them which have been dancing around the periphery of the story, I can see something there, although I still see them as secondary to what's beyond the Wall.

[LynnS]

28 minutes ago, Cowboy Dan said:

Jon wasn't actually dead but I think it's a forshadowing of future events, that he will die and help from the grave, similar to how Bloodraven is "dead". Meaning Jon may die again after being revived (I assume he will come back), a la Beric. I assume with help from Bran, Jon and company will reach through time to help Sam slay an Other here. Also of note is that Sam closes his eyes and stabs blindly. Blinding yourself of course is a tried and true method of opening your third eye and accessing warging/greenseer abilities. Hope that's heretical enough for you folks

Thanks Cowboy Dan!  Very interesting ideas about Sam.  I hadn't thought of it before. The mouth filling with blood is something that also comes up with Tyrion and think there must be some significance to it.

Getting back to the white ravens and black ravens fighting; it calls to mind Patchface:  Beneath the sea, the crows are white as snow.

Is he talking about the White Walkers, calling them crows and connecting them to Jon Snow?  Was Crastor the son of a crow?    I'm reminded of Waymar Royce; the black brothers and the white brothers in combat.

[The Snowfyre Chorus]

56 minutes ago, Cowboy Dan said:

Hope that's heretical enough for you folks

Yeah, I'd say so.  You hit a few key words early - "duality," "inversion" - then tossed in a plug for time-travel, to boot. These things are somewhat en vogue, lately, among heretics. I expect you'll fit right in.

Welcome to Heresy!

 

[wolfmaid7]

2 hours ago, Cowboy Dan said:

.

I definitely agree with this and I think we've actually seen a person willingly do this giving up of control to greenseers temporarily. Specifically, everyone's favorite coward, Samwell Tarly. Early in ASOS, fleeing from the Fist of the First Men, the first words of his POV are:

Now the reader thinks it's just that he's hit the limit of his endurance yet he continues moving because of survival instinct. I think there's more to it than that. First off he trips on a root, bites his tongue filling his mouth with blood (just as Bran tastes when being sacrificed to in ADWD), lays down on the ground and after grabbing a root repeats how he wants to just lay there -- just as Hodor curls up in a corner when Bran wargs him. Despite being a Southron Lordling in the North, Sam pleas to the Old Gods when taking his vows and in this very chapter beseeches them again.

Obviously the idea of godhood not being literal but the actions of greenseers has been discussed already so no need to get into that. Another example of duality are demons, being simply another god, one that has values so foreign as to invite classic Psychological Otherization. When on the boat Cinnamon Wind in AFFC, Xhondo Dhoru claims the Seven must be demons for vilifying sex. This seems a bit odd as the Seven are generally seen as pretty stand up gods. Hell, they're pretty merciful compared to some of the other gods out there. Conversely most people would consider the Drowned God a demon for the practice of drowning, raping, pillaging, and all of the acts typical of a violent sea-faring culture. But to the Ironborn, he is a god to be worshiped. It's all just a matter of your cultural lens.

 

Welcome to Heresy Cowboy Dan

Totally agree with this,and i'm actually putting out an essay sometime in the project that delves into that whole concept of "god" in ASOIAF and what it means with regards to those beings that...Let's face it technically for what we think defines divinity they are.Save this post and repost it there.

But yeah i do think that the Crows in BR's cave have a say in who the let ride them i'm a firm believer in the power truly laying with the familliars in the relationship and not the regular old wolves and crows,though i think the more they are ridden the more "self aware" they become.

I don't think BR's caves are the only one though,i think the IOFs have greenseers AND crows.

3 hours ago, Feather Crystal said:

It has occurred to me that perhaps the ravens are the godhead? If every raven has the shadow of a singer in them, and when the singers die they join the godhead, then doesn't it seem logical that the ravens are the godhead? I agree that the ravens operate as an extension of the weirwoods...almost as if they are the leaves, but if we were to consider them as being the godhead then it would explain why they seem ageless, and how they seem to operate in unison. Coldhands isn't controlling them, but rather he's tapped into the godhead, and maybe it's the godhead that is controlling Coldhands?

This is what i meant when i said BR is the face for the Weirwoods and the 3ec the face for another group.Or to put it another way the Ravens are like the other factions weirwoods.But i love your likening the Ravens to a godhead

This may be a stretch but i'm seeing an overall Morrigan type incarnation.

Sacred tree,Ravens.......Perhaps wolves? Maybe

 

[Black Crow]

9 hours ago, Cowboy Dan said:

If you have any links handy or know which thread number those ideas were mentioned in that would be great. I'm a little intimidated searching 190 threads of Heresy.. where to begin? 

 

The short answer is that its been a recurring theme pretty well all the way through Heresy but we'll be happy to look at it again afresh. 

To a degree the basic concept is a Celtic one of the duality of the seasons and there's a pretty quick and dirty summary of it in the backstory to the Tattered Prince. I'm dashing to work now but if nobody else has picked it up by evening my time - I'm six hours ahead of Texas, I'll set it out some more.

 

[The Snowfyre Chorus]

7 hours ago, Black Crow said:

there's a pretty quick and dirty summary of it in the backstory to the Tattered Prince. I'm dashing to work now but if nobody else has picked it up by evening my time - I'm six hours ahead of Texas, I'll set it out some more.

Actually, the background summary comes from Illyrio Mopatis, as he and Tyrion dine at his manse in Pentos.  Here's that bit:

Quote

 

"What one king does, another may undo. In Pentos we have a prince, my friend. He presides at ball, and feast and rides about the city in a palanquin of ivory and gold. Three heralds go before him with the golden scales of trade, the iron sword of war, and the silver scourge of justice. On the first day of each new year he must deflower the maid of the fields and the maid of the seas." Illyrio leaned forward, elbows on the table. "Yet should a crop fail or a war be lost, we cut his throat to appease the gods and choose a new prince from amongst the forty families."  (5.01 - TYRION)

"Remind me never to become the Prince of Pentos."

"Are your Seven Kingdoms so different? There is no peace in Westeros, no justice, no faith... and soon enough, no food. When men are starving and sick of fear, they look for a savior."  

 

The Tattered Prince does tie in. Thirty years ago, he was chosen by Pentos - but instead of serving, he fled to the Disputed Lands and became a sellsword:

Quote

The Windblown went back thirty years, and had known but one commander, the soft-spoken, sad-eyed Pentoshi nobleman called the Tattered Prince. His hair and mail were silver-grey, but his ragged cloak was made of twists of cloth of many colors, blue and grey and purple, red and gold and green, magenta and vermilion and cerulean, all faded by the sun. When the Tattered Prince was three-and-twenty, as Dick Straw told the story, the magisters of Pentos had chosen him to be their new prince, hours after beheading their old prince. Instead he'd buckled on a sword, mounted his favorite horse, and fled to the Disputed Lands, never to return. He had ridden with the Second Sons, the Iron Shields, and the Maiden's Men, then joined with five brothers-in-arms to form the Windblown. Of those six founders, only he survived.  (5.25 - THE WINDBLOWN)

Evidently, he'd like to go back to Pentos - as conqueror, rather than sacrifice.

All in all, a rather direct nod by GRRM to certain pagan and Celtic traditions surrounding May Day - though perhaps, more specifically, to the classic horror genre retelling featured in The Wicker Man.  Though I'm sure there are folks around here who have more topical information and connections at their finger tips - including Black Crow, @wolfmaid7, @Frey family reunion, and perhaps others.

[Black Crow]

Okaaay...

The gist of it is that the Corn King is one version of the Celtic belief in the duality of the two major seasons; Summer and Winter. Spring and Autumn are just the doors between them and the two are actually more equally balanced than might at first appear, for if Winter can be bitterly cold, Summer can be hot and arid - or worse pestilential. Both can bring starvation because remember that in Summer you're living off last year's harvest. Paradoxically Winter can also be a season of relative plenty and is ushered in by the harvest festival and at its centre is the great solstice feast. While Winter is the season of death that death also represents a cleansing of the land in readiness for the Spring awakening that ushers in the Summer.

In order to maintain this vital cycle of life, death and rebirth, it is necessary to have a Summer King and a Winter King, rather as described by Snowfyre above - and necessary for each to be put into the ground in due time in order to make way for his successor.

In GRRM's case Bran is obviously the Summer King [why do you think he named his direwolf?] and has very literally been put into the ground to prepare for the Spring and the Summer to come. John then with his white winter wolf named for death has been [unwittingly] slain to be King of Winter.

Something which occurs to me in writing this is that if the two already represent the necessary balance then the intervention of the dragons is what is likely to upset it.

[Frey family reunion]

On September 8, 2016 at 7:11 PM, aDanceWithFlagons said:

My last post was begun earlier so now it's out of place. Meant to follow up BC's comment last page.

While the 'murder' of ravens could be Bloodraven, I think they have more to do with Coldhands himself. I've likened Coldhands to a raven in a man's body. He has the black eyes which are compared to a raven's eyes. He understands the quorks. He travels and works with ravens. Dont know exactly what Coldhands is, or how he found his current situation, but when you think about the ravens in the cave which have a little something left over from the cotf, it seems likely that this shadow of a soul is made possible through the weirwoods. How else could all the ravens have shadows of Singers inside them unless there is some transference through the weirwoods? And this line of thinking leads me to see Coldhands as a similar creature. Some mix of crow and weirwood and man and possibly cotf too. 

And on a similar note... The corvids seem to have some special bond with the singers and trees. I've entertained the idea that the ravens and crows were the first groups to have a symbiotic relationship with the weirwoods. The cotf followed after.

I agree with the idea that Coldhands is an undead skinchanger.  I actually waded into a thread about Mance Rayder's raven winged helm that he dons in preparation for his last big surge to breach the Wall in ASOS.  In trying to answer the question as to the significance of the helm, I brought up some other interesting theories that I've read elsewhere concerning Mance and his possible origin.  Ultimately it occurred to me that there is at least the possibility that Brynden Rivers, Coldhands, and Mance may all have a Blackwood family connection.

Basically the first theory concerns Mance's relationship with the former Lord Commander before Mormont, who was probably the Lord Commander who was in charge during the events of the False Spring.  We know that a Lord Qorgyle was this former Lord Commander.  In ASOS we learn that House Qorglye's sigil is a red background with three black scorpions.  We know that Qorgyle took a trip to Winterfell when Jon was a child.  During this trip Qorgyle brought Mance Rayder with him. 

Mance's decision to leave the Wall came when his black cloak was patched with three red patches.  This would appear close to the inverse of House Qorgyle's sigil.  And of course as we learned, an inverse sigil is often the sigil of a House with a bastard origin (i.e. Blackfyre). 

It wouldn't surprise me if Lord Qorgyle may have fathered a bastard from a Wildling on the Wall.  (it would not suprise me if a number of members of the NIght's Watch have fathered bastards on wildlings, the description of Rattleshirt and Cotter Pyke are awfully similar for instance)  Perhaps this is why Lord Commander Qorgyle brings young Mance with him when he travels to Winterfell.  Mance may have taken pride in his cloak as an inverse of his father's former House, and the decision to strip that cloak away is what finally drove him from the Wall.

Now this begs the question, if Mance is Qorgyle son, why the raven winged helmet?  For reasons I won't go into now, I think that House Blackwood has been fostering a skinchanging gene through their daughters.  In fact it was probably through a female Blackwood member that Brynden inherited his impressive skinchanging abilities.  So I then looked to see if there was any evidence, no matter how slight, that might connect House Qorglye to House Blackwood.  And I did find one, albeit a very slim piece of evidence. 

We know that Oberyn Martell was fostered at House Qorgyle.  Perhaps evidence that House Martell may have shared some family relation with House Qorgyle.  The current Lord of House Qorgyle (who may be a brother or uncle to the former Lord Commander Qorgyle) is Quentyn Qorgyle.  Since we have a Quentyn Martell this also makes me think that there is a close family tie to House Martell and House Qorgyle, perhaps Doran an Oberyn's father. 

There is only one other Quentyn mentioned in any of the books.  He is mentioned in the Hedge Knight, Quentyn Blackwood.  He was the Lord of House Blackwood who was murdered by a Bracken shortly before the time of the Mystery Knight.  This made me wonder, if Lord Quentyn Qorgyle received his name from Quentyn Blackwood, perhaps a maternal grandfather.  Then if Lord Commander Qorgyle is Quentyn's brother, he too may have had a Blackwood mother.

As stated, Coldhands has black eyes (not blue-grey which was ignored by those supporting the Benjen as Coldhands theory).  Both the Blackwoods and the salty Dornish have been described as having black eyes.  If any of this is possible, this could explain why we have another powerful skinchanger attuned to ravens north of the Wall.  Both Brynden Rivers and former Lord Commander Qorgyle could have Blackwood mothers, whom they inherited their abilities from.  Then if Lord Commander Qorgyle had fathered Mance, and if Lord Commander Qorgyle had a Blackwood mom, that would in turn may explain a Blackwood family heirloom, in Mance's possession, the raven winged helmet.

It might also mean interestingly enough that there is a family connection between Bloodraven, Coldhands, and Mance...

[Frey family reunion]

4 hours ago, Black Crow said:

 

Something which occurs to me in writing this is that if the two already represent the necessary balance then the intervention of the dragons is what is likely to upset it.

I've read that in the Glastonbury Beltane festival there is a ceremonial battle between the red dragon of summer and the white dragon of winter.  The red dragon and the white dragon also featuring prominently in Merlin's origin,  and the Mabinogion.  I know that GRRM's inspiration for the Wall came during a visit to Hadrian's Wall, I also wonder if GRRM took in a Beltane festival in Glastonbury?

[wolfmaid7]

8 hours ago, Black Crow said:

Okaaay...

The gist of it is that the Corn King is one version of the Celtic belief in the duality of the two major seasons; Summer and Winter. Spring and Autumn are just the doors between them and the two are actually more equally balanced than might at first appear, for if Winter can be bitterly cold, Summer can be hot and arid - or worse pestilential. Both can bring starvation because remember that in Summer you're living off last year's harvest. Paradoxically Winter can also be a season of relative plenty and is ushered in by the harvest festival and at its centre is the great solstice feast. While Winter is the season of death that death also represents a cleansing of the land in readiness for the Spring awakening that ushers in the Summer.

In order to maintain this vital cycle of life, death and rebirth, it is necessary to have a Summer King and a Winter King, rather as described by Snowfyre above - and necessary for each to be put into the ground in due time in order to make way for his successor.

In GRRM's case Bran is obviously the Summer King [why do you think he named his direwolf?] and has very literally been put into the ground to prepare for the Spring and the Summer to come. John then with his white winter wolf named for death has been [unwittingly] slain to be King of Winter.

Something which occurs to me in writing this is that if the two already represent the necessary balance then the intervention of the dragons is what is likely to upset it.

I agree with everything here except the bolded and that's only because i think there's some problems with the pairing and how its set up. I think the myth works but in the context of the story.In the myth the war is neccessary,but in this story there is no war because to quote Osha

" Winter has no king" 

Jon hasn't taken up his spot yet.He got shagged,yeah but he hasn't done the journey yet.

[wolfmaid7]

11 hours ago, The Snowfyre Chorus said:

Actually, the background summary comes from Illyrio Mopatis, as he and Tyrion dine at his manse in Pentos.  Here's that bit:

The Tattered Prince does tie in. Thirty years ago, he was chosen by Pentos - but instead of serving, he fled to the Disputed Lands and became a sellsword:

Evidently, he'd like to go back to Pentos - as conqueror, rather than sacrifice.

All in all, a rather direct nod by GRRM to certain pagan and Celtic traditions surrounding May Day - though perhaps, more specifically, to the classic horror genre retelling featured in The Wicker Man.  Though I'm sure there are folks around here who have more topical information and connections at their finger tips - including Black Crow, @wolfmaid7, @Frey family reunion, and perhaps others.

Yeah the Wicker man is a callback to the spirit messanger and efigy that gets sacrificed instead of a real person.In my tradition he get's used at spring and at lammas more often.Its in ritualistic context and the burning is a working of sympathetic magic directed at changing what the effigy represents or preventing  its power from growing.

So the efigy must represent something or a person.

 

[aDanceWithFlagons]

4 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

I agree with the idea that Coldhands is an undead skinchanger.  I actually waded into a thread about Mance Rayder's raven winged helm that he dons in preparation for his last big surge to breach the Wall in ASOS.  In trying to answer the question as to the significance of the helm, I brought up some other interesting theories that I've read elsewhere concerning Mance and his possible origin.  Ultimately it occurred to me that there is at least the possibility that Brynden Rivers, Coldhands, and Mance may all have a Blackwood family connection.

Basically the first theory concerns Mance's relationship with the former Lord Commander before Mormont, who was probably the Lord Commander who was in charge during the events of the False Spring.  We know that a Lord Qorgyle was this former Lord Commander.  In ASOS we learn that House Qorglye's sigil is a red background with three black scorpions.  We know that Qorgyle took a trip to Winterfell when Jon was a child.  During this trip Qorgyle brought Mance Rayder with him. 

Mance's decision to leave the Wall came when his black cloak was patched with three red patches.  This would appear close to the inverse of House Qorgyle's sigil.  And of course as we learned, an inverse sigil is often the sigil of a House with a bastard origin (i.e. Blackfyre). 

It wouldn't surprise me if Lord Qorgyle may have fathered a bastard from a Wildling on the Wall.  (it would not suprise me if a number of members of the NIght's Watch have fathered bastards on wildlings, the description of Rattleshirt and Cotter Pyke are awfully similar for instance)  Perhaps this is why Lord Commander Qorgyle brings young Mance with him when he travels to Winterfell.  Mance may have taken pride in his cloak as an inverse of his father's former House, and the decision to strip that cloak away is what finally drove him from the Wall.

Now this begs the question, if Mance is Qorgyle son, why the raven winged helmet?  For reasons I won't go into now, I think that House Blackwood has been fostering a skinchanging gene through their daughters.  In fact it was probably through a female Blackwood member that Brynden inherited his impressive skinchanging abilities.  So I then looked to see if there was any evidence, no matter how slight, that might connect House Qorglye to House Blackwood.  And I did find one, albeit a very slim piece of evidence. 

We know that Oberyn Martell was fostered at House Qorgyle.  Perhaps evidence that House Martell may have shared some family relation with House Qorgyle.  The current Lord of House Qorgyle (who may be a brother or uncle to the former Lord Commander Qorgyle) is Quentyn Qorgyle.  Since we have a Quentyn Martell this also makes me think that there is a close family tie to House Martell and House Blackwood, perhaps Doran and Oberyn's father. 

There is only one other Quentyn mentioned in any of the books.  He is mentioned in the Hedge Knight, Quentyn Blackwood.  He was the Lord of House Blackwood who was murdered by a Bracken shortly before the time of the Mystery Knight.  This made me wonder, if Lord Quentyn Qorgyle received his name from Quentyn Blackwood, perhaps a maternal grandfather.  Then if Lord Commander Qorgyle is Quentyn's brother, he too may have had a Blackwood mother.

As stated, Coldhands has black eyes (not blue-grey which was ignored by those supporting the Benjen as Coldhands theory).  Both the Blackwoods and the salty Dornish have been described as having black eyes.  If any of this is possible, this could explain why we have another powerful skinchanger attuned to ravens north of the Wall.  Both Brynden Rivers and former Lord Commander Qorgyle could have Blackwood mothers, whom they inherited their abilities from.  Then if Lord Commander Qorgyle had fathered Mance, and if Lord Commander Qorgyle had a Blackwood mom, that would in turn may explain a Blackwood family heirloom, in Mance's possession, the raven winged helmet.

It might also mean interestingly enough that there is a family connection between Bloodraven, Coldhands, and Mance...

This is all very interesting, and I really like the connections you've made here. I've been leaning towards Coldhands as a Blackwood or having Blackwood blood. In the last Heresy thread someone brought up Raven tree Hall and the ravens perched on the Heart Tree like leaves. Well, that lead me to think about the name, Blackwood and mayhaps how that name came about. A wood full of ravens could easily be designated as a 'black wood' - A family of skinchangers with an affinity for corvids filling the woods with the black birds.

Anyway, the Dornish, Blackwood, and Northern connection is intriguing.

[Frey family reunion]

29 minutes ago, aDanceWithFlagons said:

This is all very interesting, and I really like the connections you've made here. I've been leaning towards Coldhands as a Blackwood or having Blackwood blood. In the last Heresy thread someone brought up Raven tree Hall and the ravens perched on the Heart Tree like leaves. Well, that lead me to think about the name, Blackwood and mayhaps how that name came about. A wood full of ravens could easily be designated as a 'black wood' - A family of skinchangers with an affinity for corvids filling the woods with the black birds.

Anyway, the Dornish, Blackwood, and Northern connection is intriguing.

Snowfyre had a theory a while back that Archmaester Walgrave might be the Archmaester father to Winterfell's former maester Walys.  And he theorized that Walgrave might also be from House Blackwood.  It would be interesting if both Lord Commander Qorgyle, and Maester Walys both had Blackwood connections.

BTW, I'm not sure of the significance of the name Blackwood within the story, but my guess is GRRM may have at least partly been giving an homage to Algeron Blackwood who was major inspiration to HP Lovecraft, and wrote a really cool short story the Willows, where two travelers of the Rhoyne, err I mean Rhine, river camped out on an island in the middle of the river and experienced an intangible horror that seemed connected to the trees.

[The Snowfyre Chorus]

7 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

my guess is GRRM may have at least partly been giving an homage to Algeron Blackwood who was major inspiration to HP Lovecraft, and wrote a really cool short story the Willows, where two travelers of the Rhoyne, err I mean Rhine, river camped out on an island in the middle of the river and experienced an intangible horror that seemed connected to the trees.

Huh. Nice connection, there. I'll have to look that one up...