U.S. Elections 2016: It's Not A Lie, If YOU Believe It

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

The vast number of people incapable of seeing irony in the "great National Anthem debate" (they see nothing wrong or ironic with trying to force people to stand for an Anthem that purports to celebrate freedom and liberty) suggests to me that "obtuse" might work.

[The Lone Rider]

1 minute ago, White Walker Texas Ranger said:

That's never really happened at a Presidential debate. Sure there was more decorum than a Trump debate would have, but it's really two candidates regurgitating their talking points at each.

At least there was some discussion about policy. This time one candidate's policy is literally building a fucking wall to stop illegal immigrants. He stole this shit from Arrested Development's weakest season. 

 

It's going to be really bad this time. No wild card Trump can pull out of his ass will save him in a direct debate. So he will stick to name calling, middle school shityness and being a general douchebag. Hillary's best strategy is to keep forcing him to comment on actual relevant matters and make him say how he is going to get shit done. 

[The Lone Rider]

3 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

The vast number of people incapable of seeing irony in the "great National Anthem debate" (they see nothing wrong or ironic with trying to force people to stand for an Anthem that purports to celebrate freedom and liberty) suggests to me that "obtuse" might work.

On the contrary I love that little shitshow. These were the people who were screaming during BLM rallies and latest riots that protesters are just wrecking havoc and are violent thugs. Now that people are using perfectly legal and rather creative ways to bring their issue to the light, this crowd has started showing it's true colors - arguing why the people are protesting at all which was always the real bone of contention. The 'we are just against the method' rhetoric was always bs. 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

5 minutes ago, The Lone Rider said:

On the contrary I love that little shitshow. These were the people who were screaming during BLM rallies and latest riots that protesters are just wrecking havoc and are violent thugs. Now that people are using perfectly legal and rather creative ways to bring their issue to the light, this crowd has started showing it's true colors - arguing why the people are protesting at all which was always the real bone of contention. The 'we are just against the method' rhetoric was always bs. 

TLR,

In the interest of full disclosure I did argue against the road blocks.  

[The Lone Rider]

27 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

TLR,

In the interest of full disclosure I did argue against the road blocks.  

There's no problem in pointing out genuine problems in their civil disobedience. I'm pointing out to the undercurrent in the criticism which was clearly oriented against the protests themselves and not against their method.

[DireWolfSpirit]

Its kind of worrisome that she's ran her immune system down after a relatively light schedule for the preceding 5 weeks though. An earlier poster was pointing out that August was already kind of Hillaries "take it easy" month........A lot of Americans might be critical of that, especially folks who didnt get to take any summer breaks due to job or financial strains. It just doesnt play well with a working class that already sees the Washington class as elitist or opportunist. Probably 50% of voters didnt get any summer break, a good portion of them living paycheck to paycheck. Hillary probably gets no empathy from them, they just potentially see a weak person that isnt engendering confidence. 

Kind of a bad look this close to November to the undecided group. The lingering nature of pneumonia is a big potential problem here, she could be looking haggard for weeks.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Maybe she contracted an infection earlier, and did not cure it completely. And now it became active again. 

The timing for that thing is of course most unfortunate for her. The 15th anniversary of 9-11 was something she could hardly skip especially as former senator from NY, without offering the angry orange and faux news a good target. (No respect for 9-11 victims, how sick is she really, and whatever you can come up with). Now she still has to answer questions about her health, but at least nobody can accuse her of disrespecting the victims of 9-11. 

The situation is not perfect, but it should not really be a deal breaker. 

[The Lone Rider]

1 minute ago, Notone said:

Maybe she contracted an infection earlier, and did not cure it completely. And now it became active again. 

The timing for that thing is of course most unfortunate for her. The 15th anniversary of 9-11 was something she could hardly skip especially as former senator from NY, without offering the angry orange and faux news a good target. (No respect for 9-11 victims, how sick is she really, and whatever you can come up with). Now she still has to answer questions about her health, but at least nobody can accuse her of disrespecting the victims of 9-11. 

The situation is not perfect, but it should not really be a deal breaker. 

If the last few months have shown us anything, it will be. People just need an excuse man.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

1 hour ago, White Walker Texas Ranger said:

I'm getting the impression that Hillary Clinton isn't actually that great a politician...

Yeah, that's the conclusion I'm coming to as well. It doesn't help that we got to see an absolute master (as far as campaigning goes) on the Democratic side for the last 2 cycles. I guess I would amend your statement to say that she is not a very good campaigner.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

9 minutes ago, The Lone Rider said:

If the last few months have shown us anything, it will be. People just need an excuse man.

 

I doubt it. I think most people have made up their mind on who they will vote already. And the last few weeks have also been more or less Clinton friendly in my book.

Trump has been Trump. And his campaign outreach to milennials with the children of corn posing for something that looked like a movie poster for an American Psycho remake (which really is ironic given Pat Bateman was this huge Trump fanboy).

Then we had Gary Johnson playing Jeopardy politician edition on NBC ("This City is in the center of the current news regarding the war in Syria." "What is Aleppo?")

The only drawback was that journalist parody of Matt Lauer. And even there people talked more about Lauer's non-performance. But I guess this election would have been too counterclimatic if Lauer had actually acted as a journalist and called out Trump.

But generally speaking, you are really hard pressed to draw up better conditions for a Democrat running for President. 

[Jace, Extat]

25 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Its kind of worrisome that she's ran her immune system down after a relatively light schedule for the preceding 5 weeks though. An earlier poster was pointing out that August was already kind of Hillaries "take it easy" month........A lot of Americans might be critical of that, especially folks who didnt get to take any summer breaks due to job or financial strains. It just doesnt play well with a working class that already sees the Washington class as elitist or opportunist. Probably 50% of voters didnt get any summer break, a good portion of them living paycheck to paycheck. Hillary probably gets no empathy from them, they just potentially see a weak person that isnt engendering confidence. 

Kind of a bad look this close to November to the undecided group. The lingering nature of pneumonia is a big potential problem here, she could be looking haggard for weeks.

What the fuck is a summer break? Most American voters aren't in school.

[The Lone Rider]

10 minutes ago, Notone said:

 

I doubt it. I think most people have made up their mind on who they will vote already. And the last few weeks have also been more or less Clinton friendly in my book.

Trump has been Trump. And his campaign outreach to milennials with the children of corn posing for something that looked like a movie poster for an American Psycho remake (which really is ironic given Pat Bateman was this huge Trump fanboy).

Then we had Gary Johnson playing Jeopardy politician edition on NBC ("This City is in the center of the current news regarding the war in Syria." "What is Aleppo?")

The only drawback was that journalist parody of Matt Lauer. And even there people talked more about Lauer's non-performance. But I guess this election would have been too counterclimatic if Lauer had actually acted as a journalist and called out Trump.

But generally speaking, you are really hard pressed to draw up better conditions for a Democrat running for President. 

Hope your right. Only a Hillary win can stop the current Global Death of the left/Birth of Right as they're calling it

[DireWolfSpirit]

44 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

What the fuck is a summer break? Most American voters aren't in school.

Lawmakers and DC in general is regularly described as going on breaks, its just another term for what the working class would consider vacation.

Vacations, something a lot of the working class has had less than the ideal amount of in recent years. Theres always a lingering resentment with some of this group when they see politicians golfing in Hawaii or taking a sail around Cape Cod. It's been an issue during both George W's and Obama's terms. They potentially arent going to have empathy for a campaigner being fatigued when they already view the Washington lifestyle as something less than "a Go-Getter" lifestyle to start with. An earlier poster pointed out that Hillary had a light schedule for August. Its like going into your home opener and your running back is already on injured reserve after having the whole off season already, doesnt engender much sympathy. There are potentially undecided voters who will note there disapproval of this.

 

edit to add: This with Hillary already at skyhigh disapproval ratings is less than ideal.

[GrimTuesday]

Did anyone see Giuliani saying that nothing is illegal in war (while talking about how we should have seized the Iraqi oil for ourselves (which we did basically do) and held onto it)? Man, this is a close advisor to Trump, and he doesn't seem to have any grasp on international law, but tries to speak like an expert because his city got fucked up by terrorists. It's mind blowing to me that these ghouls have any supporters. This is also coming on the heels of Trump essentially lamenting the fact that we no longer abide by the right of conquest (to victor goes the spoils and all that fun stuff). It just boggles the mind. Remember when Trump said he was going to have the smartest team advising him? Clear not.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

 Sassy Trump 7/11

 

 

[Jace, Extat]

46 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Lawmakers and DC in general is regularly described as going on breaks, its just another term for what the working class would consider vacation.

Vacations, something a lot of the working class has had less than the ideal amount of in recent years. Theres always a lingering resentment with some of this group when they see politicians golfing in Hawaii or taking a sail around Cape Cod. It's been an issue during both George W's and Obama's terms. They potentially arent going to have empathy for a campaigner being fatigued when they already view the Washington lifestyle as something less than "a Go-Getter" lifestyle to start with. An earlier poster pointed out that Hillary had a light schedule for August. Its like going into your home opener and your running back is already on injured reserve after having the whole off season already, doesnt engender much sympathy. There are potentially undecided voters who will note there disapproval of this.

 

edit to add: This with Hillary already at skyhigh disapproval ratings is less than ideal.

I've never taken more than 5 days vacation, and never in summer. My folks never did either. What you're describing is not (in my experience) a real thing for most americans. And golfing in Hawaii and sailing? That's rich people stuff. 

And I've never been unsympathetic to an injured player for going on IR. Frustrated, sure. But not hostile.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

2 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

I've never taken more than 5 days vacation, and never in summer. My folks never did either. What you're describing is not (in my experience) a real thing for most americans. And golfing in Hawaii and sailing? That's rich people stuff. 

And I've never been unsympathetic to an injured player for going on IR. Frustrated, sure. But not hostile.

I don't think the issue here is sympathy, it's more like practicality. Just how sick is she? Is she likely to survive a term? Is she healthy enough to perform the duties of office? If not, you're basically casting a vote for Tim Kaine. 

I think the second big issue here is dishonesty. If she's lying about this, what else is she lying about? Of course her opponent seems to have her trumped as far as that goes, but it is still worrisome.

 

[Boris the Blade]

1 minute ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

I don't think the issue here is sympathy, it's more like practicality. Just how sick is she? Is she likely to survive a term? Is she healthy enough to perform the duties of office? If not, you're basically casting a vote for Tim Kaine. 

I think the second big issue here is dishonesty. If she's lying about this, what else is she lying about? Of course her opponent seems to have her trumped as far as that goes, but it is still worrisome.

 

People already have their minds made up with her that she is extremely dishonest and always lying even though it has been shown she is actually one of the most honest politicians around, especially running for president. This is all thanks to sexism and a 25 year long smear campaign. So even if she was up front about what was wrong, people would still doubt her and think it's something more etc. She's damned if she does and damned if she doesn't. 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

2 minutes ago, Harakiri said:

People already have their minds made up with her that she is extremely dishonest and always lying even though it has been shown she is actually one of the most honest politicians around, especially running for president. This is all thanks to sexism and a 25 year long smear campaign. So even if she was up front about what was wrong, people would still doubt her and think it's something more etc. She's damned if she does and damned if she doesn't. 

 I can't buy that. If she was one of the more honest politicians around, she would have been honest about it. Not sure how this lends itself to sexism. Her campaign has been lying about her health. 

"It's the heat that's bothering her. It's just seasonal allergies". 

 

 The truth would've been far less damaging, methinks. Now it smells like they are trying to cover up a serious health issue. 

 

[James Arryn]

25 minutes ago, Harakiri said:

People already have their minds made up with her that she is extremely dishonest and always lying even though it has been shown she is actually one of the most honest politicians around, especially running for president. This is all thanks to sexism and a 25 year long smear campaign. So even if she was up front about what was wrong, people would still doubt her and think it's something more etc. She's damned if she does and damned if she doesn't. 

Sexism plays a role, but do you not notice how often it's being raised to explain why people are overreacting to something dishonest she's doing? Or how she's painted into a corner? That's because this shit keeps happening.

And blaming it all on sexist smears, who is that helping? The people who are sexist aren't going to have a revelation and change because it's been said for the 500th time...most of them vote the other party anyways...and the people who aren't but are genuinely concerned about her credibility are going to think that the reason she keeps doing this shit is because people around her are talking like you, and there's no accountability.

Meanwhile, back to the part where you're simultaneously blaming other people for her lying while attacking people for thinking she lies.