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Nennymoans and merlings; more Patchface tinfoil


hiemal

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1 hour ago, LmL said:

sat up and took notice. The dragon meteor children of the moon disaster are associated with morningstar mythology (Venus mythology), so if the anemone is made form the blood of Venus's dead lover... in ASOIAF, Venus's dead lover is AA, the dark (inverted) solar king. He represents the reborn dark sun and also the moon meteors themselves, which is also what Sansa's amethysts (her nennymnoans) represent, moon meteors

:agree:

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On September 13, 2016 at 1:37 PM, Pain killer Jane said:

The quote of the old fish eating the old fish is directly pointing at the cannibalism of the Pike fish. Highly territoriality and will resort to cannibalism when there is not enough territory for them. And so we have Euron who is from Pike and is styled Lord Reaper of Pike. 

Nice. Pyke is also a clue about that sword-like point of land being a pointy weapon. I think I forgot to put that in may essay, shoot. The word "Pyke" implies a stabbing weapon AND a fish, which is why it is perfect. When you look at all of it, it's almost heavy-handed. The point of a sword of land which thrust into the sea, it's castle is called Pyke, and oh look there's the comet, and did I mention the sword-like comet looks a lot like the fire the drowned god carried out of the sea? Here's the sigil of a bloody moon sickle associated with people named "Wynch." LoL.  

As we know suspect,  Euron is styling himself a new Bloodstone Emperor. The fact that he is lord reaper of Pyke is terrific, and that's what I am claiming the ORIGINAL Bloodstone Emperor was too - the pirate from Asshai who came to Westeros with those black weapons or the knowledge to make them, etc. The fact that Euron is attacking Oldtown currently is sweet, because that's where I think the original BSE / AA made landfall, at the fused stone fortress which his people had already built at Battle Isle. The logical place to start your invasion. I believe the GEotD was colonizing Westeros; either that or a few GEOTD people went against the BSE and stayed in Westeros to found House Dayne, House Hightower, and the Ironborn, perhaps others, who knows. Point being, there are many BSE/ evil AA clones out there, and they all do things the BSE did. Dorian Dayne, the Sword of the Evening, was sent to the Wall. If AA became either the NK or the LH (I think it was one or the other), then he went to the Wall as well. Stannis went to he Wall, and he's also a burning stag man (code for "fiery greenseer"). Stannis also parallels Night's King, suggesting the possibility of AA = NK. Euron attacks Oldtown, amongst many other things, wants to steal / usurp Dany's power and dragons, and so on. Dalton Greyjoy the Red Kraken had a V Steel sword called Nightfall with a moonstone pommel, invaded Oldtown and the West Coast, etc. There are many more but you get the idea. We can watch Euron's actions and learn more about the BSE, in my opinion. 

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2 minutes ago, Pain killer Jane said:

:agree:

Honestly, this is probably the reason why Martin chose to use anemone, if that's indeed what nennymoans means. It's a natural fit because of the poison ideas also. 

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So, mermaids. The drowned goddess again - mermaids are women who live in the sea. The moon goddess became an aquatic goddess, a mermaid in other words. That's why Grey King "takes" a mermaid to wife - that's another reference to stealing the moon or possession the sea dragon's fire.

Durran Godsgrief is a parallel myth - he challenges the gods, steals the daughter of the wind and sea gods. That sounds like an aquatic goddess - the sea / sky deity pairing is a sea people's religion, one we see throughout mid-Westeros. The child of a sea and sky god could only be born at sea... so, Elenei is a mermaid too, after a fashion. The stealing of Elenei caused... what? Raise your hand if you know... that's right, a historically bad storm and flood. That's because the stealing of the goddess refers to the moon being plucked from the sky. The particular floods and storms that would have been felt at Storm's End in the Dawn Age would have come from the breaking of the Arm of Dorne, according to me, which I believe was also a moon meteor thing.  That's why the weather changed permanently after Durran's storm - it says that to this day, the storms howl up the bay or whatever. That's because the breaking altered the weather patterns drastically, connecting the Shivering Sea to the Summer Sea and creating the Narrow Sea. 

So, mermaids wear silver seaweed gowns because silver is moon color, and "the mermaid" used to be the moon. At least, that's one reason for the symbol... it certainly does not preclude other layers of meaning, by any means. ;)

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2 minutes ago, Pain killer Jane said:

Or perhaps examine Stannis and Prince Daemon Targaryen as well. 

Yes and yes. Daemon set himself up as the King of the Narrow Sea, and took motherfuckin Bloodstone Island in the Stepstones for his seat. He rode the red dragon Carafes, the Bloodwyrm, who crashed into the God's Eye lake. The Gods Eye lake is a symbol of the celestial god's eye - the moon eclipsing the sun like a black pupil - and that's right where and when Lightbringer the red comet stabbed. Thus, the red dragon Bloodworm plunges into the god's eye, throwing up a gout of water as tall as Kingspyre Tower... think King Azor Ahai the meteor and the pyre of smoke he is born in, like the pyre of Khal Drogo from which Dany is reborn and the dragons are born born. 

Stannis, as I mentioned, is a burning stag man who resembles both AA and the NK. That's kind of enough to ponder right there. He's also the lord of Dragonstone... and the Nightfort. I predict he will also hold Winterfell for a time, because the "King of Winter" archetype is related to this mess too. Notice how Stannis is described as being skeletal, how you can see his skull. That's very like Beric's symbolism, and Bloodraven too - the corpse Lord. Soon... we'll have Corpse Lord Jon Snow. Stannis won't be resurrected, but we get the repeated walking corpse-type language. 

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On September 13, 2016 at 4:26 PM, Pain killer Jane said:

for me the purple crystals of Sansa's hairnet are a joke because amethysts are literally named 'not intoxicated' and were used to protect be from intoxication but in the story they are used to deliver poison to the king which when you think about it Joffrey died of alcohol poisoning. Hence the amethyst purpose was inverted. 

The poison used is the Stranger which is a characteristic associated with both vines (in this case grape vines) and snakes.  

The second thing is the purple eyes of Valyrians who are snakes/dragons and the madness that shows up quite frequently is a corruption of their genes and should right be viewed as poisoned blood. 

The silver too could be viewed as poison because quicksilver or Mercury and we know the toxicity of mercury.

Edit: 

The creation of the Anemone was that Venus mixed her dead lover's blood with nectar and up sprang the flower. Corrupted blood in a sense.

 

On September 13, 2016 at 4:34 PM, hiemal said:

Or could it be, and I'm just spitballing here, a sign of a confluence of fire and ice- the red eyes of so many we've met (Mel and Bloodraven chief among them) and the blue eyes of the Others and their minions?

 

On September 13, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Pain killer Jane said:

yes because red and blue lights produce purple light. And Martin uses the RGB light color model for Westeros and Red,Blue, Yellow paint primary color scheme for Essos. 

 

On September 13, 2016 at 7:09 PM, hiemal said:

Bonus spitballing and referencing re purple eyes:

GRRM references Moorcock almost as much as Lovecraft- Elric of Melnibone is even one of AA's companions as Eldric Shadowchaser and Melnibone and her inhabitants are strikingly similar to the Valyrians, down to pacts with dark forces and riding dragons. I submit that the "red" and the "blue" that produced the purple peepers represents the GEoDawnian geothermal magic that Valyria later used to tap the fourteen flames and the cold, dark mutating power of the Deep Ones (manifested in the Oily Black Stone found in places like Mantarys and in the Seastone Chairi). This represents not only the creation of dragons but the creation of dragonriders!

..aaand that's what I mean about color symbolism. A motherfucker. Sooooo subjective. 

No black stone in Mantarys that we know, btw, unless I am missing something.

I have wondered about the connection between the GEotD and Deep Ones, because there is evidence of it... but it's just so speculative, we don't have enough to go on. Clearly there is a tie between oily black stone and deep ones, and Asshai is built of oily black stone, so... there something there. 

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1 minute ago, LmL said:

I have wondered about the connection between the GEotD and Deep Ones, because there is evidence of it... but it's just so speculative, we don't have enough to go on. Clearly there is a tie between oily black stone and deep ones, and Asshai is built of oily black stone, so... there something there.

Evolett's essay on the genetics of Ice and Fire and positing that the original AE was the child of the Fisher Queens of the Silver Sea and GEotD.

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1 minute ago, Pain killer Jane said:

Evolett's essay on the genetics of Ice and Fire and positing that the original AE was the child of the Fisher Queens of the Silver Sea and GEotD.

Yes, I remember. I love all her work, but I am not too sure about the idea of the Fisher Queens having consort with the GEotD in that way. I'm not against it necessarily, just not persuaded. But if she is right, perhaps the Fisher Queens represent "nice merfolk," for lack of a better word. The ones from before the fall. Today's deep ones are like the corrupted, post BSE kind. Who knows... again it's all so damn speculative with the Deep Ones.  

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On September 14, 2016 at 0:36 PM, hiemal said:

As above, so below- I believe that is the credo of our fellow, LML, and I think that it fits even better in its satanic formulation- as below, so above. Given the ambiguity about whether or not the LN marks the beginning of the off-kilter seasons or is only another in a series of world-altering catastrophes I've always considered my own tinfoils to mesh nicely with LML's wonderful essays

:cheers:  Right on eclipse brother!

I enjoy theories that clash with my own as well - as you said, it's very healthy to hold multiple conflicting possibilities in your mind at once. That's actually how I approach reality for the most part. 

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9 minutes ago, LmL said:

Yes and yes. Daemon set himself up as the King of the Narrow Sea, and took motherfuckin Bloodstone Island in the Stepstones for his seat. He rode the red dragon Carafes, the Bloodwyrm, who crashed into the God's Eye lake. The Gods Eye lake is a symbol of the celestial god's eye - the moon eclipsing the sun like a black pupil - and that's right where and when Lightbringer the red comet stabbed. Thus, the red dragon Bloodworm plunges into the god's eye, throwing up a gout of water as tall as Kingspyre Tower... think King Azor Ahai the meteor and the pyre of smoke he is born in, like the pyre of Khal Drogo from which Dany is reborn and the dragons are born born. 

Stannis, as I mentioned, is a burning stag man who resembles both AA and the NK. That's kind of enough to ponder right there. He's also the lord of Dragonstone... and the Nightfort. I predict he will also hold Winterfell for a time, because the "King of Winter" archetype is related to this mess too. Notice how Stannis is described as being skeletal, how you can see his skull. That's very like Beric's symbolism, and Bloodraven too - the corpse Lord. Soon... we'll have Corpse Lord Jon Snow. Stannis won't be resurrected, but we get the repeated walking corpse-type language. 

:lmao:When I read that I had to read it several times and I was like well I hope the other side wins. And remember he was allied with the Sea Snake. 

Caraxes and Syrax sound like mortal Kombat characters.... Cyrax with a C is a yellow soulless cyborg. 

I was going to mention if anyone brought up Bran's vision of Jon Snow turning grey in the ice cells which is just frozen sea water. 

I wonder if Stannis will be given to the Heart tree in Winterfell especially if he burns it. 

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3 minutes ago, Pain killer Jane said:

:lmao:When I read that I had to read it several times and I was like well I hope the other side wins. And remember he was allied with the Sea Snake. 

Caraxes and Syrax sound like mortal Kombat characters.... Cyrax with a C is a yellow soulless cyborg. 

I was going to mention if anyone brought up Bran's vision of Jon Snow turning grey in the ice cells which is just frozen sea water. 

I wonder if Stannis will be given to the Heart tree in Winterfell especially if he burns it. 

Yeah, the Sea Snake, there's a good one, right? Condor the story of House Velaryon. They are dragon people who come from Valyria, and they take over an island ruled by fish people. They take the Merling King's wooden throne - made of driftwood - and now they have a seahorse sigil. But a seahorse looks kinda like a dragon, quite frankly, an underwater one. So they are in every sense dragon people who became fishy. And the parallel to the idea of dragon people from Asshai taking over the Iron Islands and taking their wooden chair (weirwood throne of Grey King) and becoming fishy is pretty awesome.

Big Mortal Kombat fan, Cyrax is a great character. Not sure that's something George was thinking of, but who knows. I always think of MK when I read Syrax. 

I think Jon turns cold and hard, not grey, but we should double check. 

Stannis being sacrificed to the heart tree would be very cool. Burning it would be right symbolically but I don't think it will happen, because I have become attached to the idea of Bran sitting under that tree by the end.

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10 minutes ago, LmL said:

Yes, I remember. I love all her work, but I am not too sure about the idea of the Fisher Queens having consort with the GEotD in that way. I'm not against it necessarily, just not persuaded. But if she is right, perhaps the Fisher Queens represent "nice merfolk," for lack of a better word. The ones from before the fall. Today's deep ones are like the corrupted, post BSE kind. Who knows... again it's all so damn speculative with the Deep Ones.  

Understandable. But I will say this Huzhor Amai was the son of the last of them and was an ancestor of the Tall Men that founded the Kingdom or Sarnor and we know their history. Btw his Gipps wife wore Lime stiffen hair and that is something used in ancient times during fishing to shade one's self from heat. 

I wonder if they too are under a barrier spell. 

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12 minutes ago, LmL said:

I think Jon turns cold and hard, not grey, but we should double check.

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Finally he looked north. He saw the Wall shining like blue crystal, and his bastard brother Jon sleeping alone in a cold bed, his skin growing pale and hard as the memory of all warmth fled from him.

 

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22 minutes ago, LmL said:

Yeah, the Sea Snake, there's a good one, right? Condor the story of House Velaryon. They are dragon people who come from Valyria, and they take over an island ruled by fish people. They take the Merling King's wooden throne - made of driftwood - and now they have a seahorse sigil. But a seahorse looks kinda like a dragon, quite frankly, an underwater one. So they are in every sense dragon people who became fishy. And the parallel to the idea of dragon people from Asshai taking over the Iron Islands and taking their wooden chair (weirwood throne of Grey King) and becoming fishy is pretty awesome.

oh I wanted to point out Ser Marlon Manderly with his grey beard, grey eyes, Merling King helmet and his silver armor that has flowing seaweed etched on it.

 

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2 hours ago, LmL said:

So, mermaids. The drowned goddess again - mermaids are women who live in the sea. The moon goddess became an aquatic goddess, a mermaid in other words. That's why Grey King "takes" a mermaid to wife - that's another reference to stealing the moon or possession the sea dragon's fire.

LML, every time I read your analysis; I can't escape the notion that Dany is the drowned goddess; the hero who will emerge from the sea (of grass).  This even fits with Euron's notion that he will take her to wife by stealing her (dragons).  She even fits the idea of lightbringer in her aspect of the crone carrying the lantern.   

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*sees that @LmL has praised post*  

*fangirling* 

Thanks, LmL! I've read a lot of your essays and loved them. :D Have to still read the Grey King one! 

Up until TWOIAF, I was thinking that the only non-human races we'll see in the series are the Children and the Others....but TWOIAF changed all that. The Deep Ones are definitely making an appearance.

Now, on rereading the series, it's quite clear that Patchface, all along, was GRRM dropping hints on what lies "under the sea" (so sly he is!)

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"Here we eat fish, under the sea, the fish eat us. I know. I know…"

Not too tough, this one:  The Deep Ones are going to devour humans.

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Under the sea the old fish eat the young fish. Up here the young fish teach the old fish."

 DG sacrifices of young boys, just like Craster's sacrifices to the "cold gods".

Previously, in the thread, I had speculated if the IB saying is connected to the Others.To expand on this idea,i f we consider that the Others have a hierarchy (let's say the Great Other, WW and his wights) - could this unseen Great Other actually be the Deep Ones to whom these "young fish" are sacrificed, to be reborn "harder and stronger" as Others?

Is this how the DG tradition of giving newborns to the sea originated?

In AGOT, Bran has a dream, where:

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And he looked past the wall, past endless forests cloaked in snow, past the frozen shore and the great blue-white rivers of ice and the dead plains where nothing grew or lived. North and north and north he looked, to the curtain of light at the end of the world, and then beyond that curtain. He looked deep into the heart of winter, and then he cried out, afraid, and the heat of his tears burned on his cheeks.

Was this "north and north and north of the Wall" the White Waste, where he saw the Heart of WInter? 

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The White Waste is a wilderness of ice and snow located north of the Shivering Sea. According to sailors, it is ravaged by blizzards and the winds from its ice mountains scream and howl. Its shorelines fluctuate, receding in summer and expanding in winter. Shimmering lights can be seen in the north of the world.

Curtain of light?

If this was indeed the place Bran saw, GRRM drew another possible link between the Others and Deep Ones here, while describing the Shivering Sea:

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There are several tales about the Shivering Sea, including queer lights shimmering in the sky, where the demon mother of the ice giants dances eternally through the night, seeking to lure men northward to their dooms. Tales also mention Cannibal Bay, where ships enter only to find themselves trapped forever when the sea freezes behind them. Other tales also mention pale blue mists moving across the waters, so cold they freeze any ship they pass over; drowned spirits that rise at night to drag the living down into the depths; or mermaids of pale flesh and black-scaled tails, far more malign than their sisters to the south.[1]

Another myth speaks of ice dragons, far larger than the dragons of Valyria, said to be made of living ice, with eyes of pale blue crystal, vast translucent wings, and breath of cold.

This is what lies North of the world: The White Waste, where the Heart of Winter is, presumably, bounded by the Shivering Sea, where the Deep Ones live...

Elementally, this fits too. Ice is frozen Water, after all. Or rather, Ice + Fire gives Water....

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"Under the sea, men marry fishes.

As many others have said in this thread, this clearly refers to the Deep Ones' practice of mating with humans. Patchface is probably talking about his own survival story here.

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"Under the sea, the birds have scales for feathers. I know. I know…"

@LmL, your idea that this refers to the Sea Dragon, brilliant - "scales for feathers", after all!. For context, Patchface gives this quote when Cressen is trying to show Shireen the white raven. Is there a connection here - Sea Dragon - COTF - weirwood - Ravens? The biggest enemy of the DG is the Storm God, after all, whose minions are ravens.

 

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"I will lead it. We will march into the sea and out again. Under the waves we will ride seahorses, and mermaids will blow seashells to announce our coming, oh, oh, oh."

Context: Patchface gives this quote when Jon is discussing the expedition to Hardhome. A clue from GRRM that this is what Cotter Pyke's "dead things in the water", refers to?

A very interesting quote in this light, from ADWD Jon IX:

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Patchface. Cotter Pyke's letters had made mention of him as well. Pyke claimed he was a simpleton.

 

 

 

The most mysterious of all Patches' prophecies:

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Under the sea it snows up, and the rain is dry as bone. I know. I know…"

"Under the sea, you fall up. I know. I know…"

Why is it all upside down, under the sea? Or is it a metaphor for something else?

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Will read the thread properly and be back with more later, but just wanted to respond to this:

 

9 hours ago, LmL said:

The comet is compared to a burning brand carried out of the ocean, which is a great example of what I am talking about:

“Every morning brings a new day, much like the old.” 

“In Riverrun, they would tell you different.  They say the red comet is a herald of a new age.  A messenger from the gods.”

“A sign it is,” the priest agreed, “but from our god, not theirs. A burning brand it is, such as our people carried of old. It is the flame the Drowned God brought from the sea, and it proclaims a rising tide.  It is time to hoist our sails and go forth into the world with fire and sword, as he did.” 

The Drowned God possesses fire, as I said, and it is the fire of the red comet, of lightbringer. There's even the idea of the drowned god going out with fire and sword, which is great, especially when you just compared the drowned god's fire to the red comet, symbol of Lightbringer. Curiously, there is apparently a version of the Azor Ahai reborn story Stannis has heard which we have not, and he refers to it in ASOS:

His hand swept across the Painted Table. “How many boys dwell in Westeros? How many girls? How many men, how many women? The darkness will devour them all, she says. The night that never ends. She talks of prophecies … a hero reborn in the sea, living dragons hatched from dead stone … she speaks of signs and swears they point to me.”  

One of those lines nobody ever talks about, but what the hell? Reborn in the sea? It jibes with my theory very well: Azor Ahai reborn represents the moon meteor dragons, at least one of which landed in the sea and became the sea dragon. But it didn't just stay in the sea, it seems to reemerge - that's what the idea of the Drowned God coming from the sea with fire that resembles the comet is all about.

This is a fantastic connection between the Lightbringer myth and the Drowned God, seriously. If AA is an evil guy, as you've posited, this fits very well - AA forging Lightbringer from the sea, with a burning brand (his flaming sword), reborn in smoke (Patchface - "smoke rises in bubbles, and flames burn green,blue,black") and salt (saltwater), apparently a "Hero" emerging from the sea ....NOT!

 

Or we could also look it at this way -  "Lightbringer" had three attempts - one trying to temper it in water (which could be this DG guy,who's evil), one in the heart of a lion (still got to figure that one out) and one by plunging it into Nissa Nissa's heart (this could be R + L  forging Jon, who is the "true" LB.). 

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10 hours ago, Pain killer Jane said:

 

Oh, that's a nice one, all that grey. The Grey King was specifically mentioned to have a grey beard, so actually all the many instances of "greybeards and green boys" should be examined for possible symbolism. Green boys is a euphemism for children of the forest, I've picked up on that a long time ago, but Greybeards didn't make sense until more recently.

The Merman's court is pretty great - it's a brilliant way to show us what is happening under the sea. That chapter is awesome, quite frankly, and honestly the White Harbor great hall might be the one I'd most like to see in person. So awesome. Manderlies a real Merling Kings, for sure... but they are also KNIGHTS OF THE GREEN HAND who are fromthe reach. 

Patchface is a drowned antler person. It's the same thing - horned lords being drowned. In other words.... The Deep Ones may very well have an origin with greenseer magic. 

I picked up on this a long time ago actually but haven't talked about it much. We see trees often personified as human, with finger like branches or standing in rows with cloaks, etc. I see three major states of transformation for these humanized trees: burning trees (as I discussed in the Grey King ep), frozen trees (which are clues about the Others) and drowned trees. I believe we are seeing greenseers and magic go in three different directions. Frozen trees - like the pale shadow of a weirwood armored in ice that Varymyr sees - indicate greenseer becoming Others. Burning trees show us greenseers transforming with fire in Azor Ahai people. We see trees get drowned.... And that's Patchface. There's a nice scene on the Trident (think it's with Arya and the Hound) where an upturned tree in the river reaches out to rake the side of the boat with its finger branches.

Point being, I have been equating horned / antlered men with the Green Men / Horned Lords / OG greenseers, so personified trees and stag people represent the same thing. That's how it is in really myth - a crown of branches is often done in imitation of Cerrunos or other horned stag-man deities. Garth wore a crown of branches, but he's also tied to the Green Men with their head-antlers. Same with the Baratheons, they represent Garth as a horned god. That's why I love resurrected Renly so much - an undead burning stag man leading an army of demons in steel.

Thats also why Patchface is so great - he's a drowned stag man. If I am right in some regard about all that, Patchface should be telling us about how stag men became drowned men. 

There's a great line where Davos is sitting on the spears of the Merling King after the Blackwater, and he thinks all the people that died at the Battle are "drowned or burned, gone to make a King in hell." The question I have is, are the freezing, drowning, and burning greenseers all different types? Or is this a multi-stage process? It's tempting to imagine that the three heads of the dragon and Dany's three different colored dragon indicate these three types of conversion. White for ice, green for the sea, black for being burnt. Or maybe it's related to the cycle of the seasons and of the day, something I have proposed before: white for the water forging and the morning sun, green for the lion (green and gold are the colors of summer, like Viserion, and green and gold represent life and vitality), and black for sunset, the cold and death of winter, and the blood magic of killing Nissa Nissa, the event which brought on the Long Night. 

@Equilibrium and I have been tracing out the idea that Azor Ahai had three sons, a parallel to the three heads of the dragon. We have looked at the three brothers Baratheon as an example, and also to the fact that there are three Garth's in the NW: G Greenaway (what a name), G of Oldtown, and G Greyfeather. Their actions are interesting: one helps kill Mormont, two of them fight each other (as Renly and Stannis did), and so on. Robert seems to be the summer king, whose death brings on the winter. He equates the best with Garth the Green, although when Renly is crowned he takes this posture too, with all his Jade and gold trappings. You'll notice his sigil save are a mix of Tyrell and Baratheon, which really takes the Baratheon horned god image and ties it to Garth. Renly is Robert's shadow when Robert is dying, so he's like a continuation of Robert maybe? It's only after Renly dies that he becomes the burning stag man, "Resurrected Renly" who is of course actually Garlan Tyrell - a pother Garth type, becoming the burning stag.

Stannis is of course a burning stag and a flaming sword wielded - a major clue that AA was a stag man - but he also parallels the Nights King and is associated heavily with shadow. His sword is cold, his eyes are blue, his face is shadowed and skeletal. He's currently trying to become something of a King in the North and trying to take Winterfell after coming down from the Wall, so he's also playing the role of Mance / King Beyond the Wall who invades south. Remember that Mance crowns his white pavilion with a rack of great elk antlers - that's frozen stag business. So too with Coldhands, whose elk has its horns frozen and crusted with ice. 

Pits all very tantalizing but of course it doesn't sort out neatly - the three Baratheon bros are not neatly divided into colors, or ice / fire / water, etc. It seems jumbled. That makes me think maybe we seeing stages, not three different people. 

Thoughts?

 ETA: Garlan Tyrell. His sigil is two golden roses on green instead of the typical on golden rose of Tyrell: because he's a "second son." Second sun! That's resurrected Renly, Azor Ahai reborn the second sun. Interestingly, Garlan takes over Brightwater Keep. If you freeze bright water, you get bright ice. Dawn? Maybe. Bright water used to belong to House Florent, whose sigil is a red fox with BLUE FLOWERS. Hello Nights Queen, your husband ha

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9 hours ago, LynnS said:

LML, every time I read your analysis; I can't escape the notion that Dany is the drowned goddess; the hero who will emerge from the sea (of grass).  This even fits with Euron's notion that he will take her to wife by stealing her (dragons).  She even fits the idea of lightbringer in her aspect of the crone carrying the lantern.   

Yes, yes, and yes. I agree, she has a ton of sea dragon imagery about her, and that's the same thing as the drowned god / goddess. She was born on a rock in the sea, while a storm raged. She drowns herself in the Womb of the World in a scene where the actual moon floats on the water, "shattering and reforming" as the reflected image on the water is broken by the ripples. Dany is a drowned moon maiden, in other words, and yes, she's reborn in the Dothraki "Sea." Euron definitely sees her as a new Amethyst Empress, whose power he wants to usurp and steal in all likelihood. 

Care to expand on your thoughts about the Crone's lantern?

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