Jasta11 Posted September 15, 2016 Share Posted September 15, 2016 On 13/09/2016 at 9:22 PM, One-eyed Misbehavin said: I'm actually gonna go with LF. I understand (especially while he had the position) that the autonomy he had over the crown's money is unrealistic. But the fact that he had a noble of Lysa's status who just so happened to marry the super elderly hand of the King and get a somewhat free position on the small council. Not to mention he gained control of the vale after pushing his wife whom he gained said control of weeks or months after getting married!!! But the biggest problem I've always had is..... If Jon Arryn was so involved with the crown on a daily basis while Robert was drinking and whoring then HE WOULD HAVE CAUGHT PEYTR MADOFF BERNIE BAELISH LF I have no doubt in my mind about that. Honestly Madoff doesn't even begin to compare LF is ready for winter to say the least. That, and LF being lucky enough that Tyrion, vindictive as he is and infused with the power to cleanse the Small Council as he saw fit, doesn't pursue vengeance on the guy who threw him to the proverbial wolves. So it's definitely a toss-up between Tyrion (who keeps surviving events he has no business surviving), Dany (who keeps getting plot gifts dropped into her lap to keep her story going), and Littlefinger whose risky scheming is made way too riskless via the sheer luck granted by the narrative. Honorable mentions go to Jon Snow, who also survives a lot of stuff and somehow gains Mance's confidence, as well as Beric Dondarrion who was ressurected no less than 6 times by my reckoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elisabetta Duò Posted September 15, 2016 Share Posted September 15, 2016 I find kinda funny that people mention Tyrion and his 'plot amor' when we have characters who went into fire and came out unburned and somehow survived multiple assassination attempts since they were born (Dany) and always get immedate and faithful help from people they didn't even had to convince to help them (Barristan traveling half the world just to go and help Dany, Jorah hopelessly in love, etc.) or characters who died and literally resurrected (not yet.. but nobody thinks Jon won't come back) and always manage to get power because other people hand it to them on a silver plate, when the rest of the world works hard for it (but they're too noble to ever want power, they reclutantly accept it when offered 'cause well). Actually Tyrion is frequently unlucky (as he said ironically, 'i was born lucky'...) he's misjudged because of his dwarfism, hated by his family, betrayed by Jamie, lost his first wife, framed for Bran's murder attempt, framed for Joffrey's murder, etc.) and his supposed 'luck' - which is always saving himself from some sudden unlucky twist - partly is not even luck (when he talks himself out of situations or convince other people to play for him or with him, that's persuasive skills and talent, not luck), partly it's 'realistic' luck... he is never saved by miracles, magic, superpowers, dragons, somebody who is helplessly in love with him and other plot devices like those ones... he's the guy who surives a car accident, the neighbour who was out when the electrical system of his flat collapsed, the guy who was late at work the day the twin towers fell, the guy who comes back from Yemen because they killedx the other obstage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitering Posted September 15, 2016 Share Posted September 15, 2016 Tyrion, Arya, Dany. In that order I'd say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimim Posted September 15, 2016 Share Posted September 15, 2016 Tyrion, Dany, Littlefinger: All three have ridiculous amounts of plot armor. For Tyrion and Dany, this is a problem in that I've stopped worrying about their survival. They're safe until the bitter end of Dream, and since I'm losing hope that Dream will ever be published, they're safe, period. LF is different in that GRRM will pull the armor when it's time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khal drogon Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 15 hours ago, Elisabetta Duò said: I find kinda funny that people mention Tyrion and his 'plot amor' when we have characters who went into fire and came out unburned and somehow survived multiple assassination attempts since they were born (Dany) and always get immedate and faithful help from people they didn't even had to convince to help them (Barristan traveling half the world just to go and help Dany, Jorah hopelessly in love, etc.) or characters who died and literally resurrected (not yet.. but nobody thinks Jon won't come back) and always manage to get power because other people hand it to them on a silver plate, when the rest of the world works hard for it (but they're too noble to ever want power, they reclutantly accept it when offered 'cause well). Actually Tyrion is frequently unlucky (as he said ironically, 'i was born lucky'...) he's misjudged because of his dwarfism, hated by his family, betrayed by Jamie, lost his first wife, framed for Bran's murder attempt, framed for Joffrey's murder, etc.) and his supposed 'luck' - which is always saving himself from some sudden unlucky twist - partly is not even luck (when he talks himself out of situations or convince other people to play for him or with him, that's persuasive skills and talent, not luck), partly it's 'realistic' luck... he is never saved by miracles, magic, superpowers, dragons, somebody who is helplessly in love with him and other plot devices like those ones... he's the guy who surives a car accident, the neighbour who was out when the electrical system of his flat collapsed, the guy who was late at work the day the twin towers fell, the guy who comes back from Yemen because they killedx the other obstage. The OP is specifically talking about survival because of plot armor nothing about being hated or misjudged. And Tyrion definitely came out against odd situations alive and kicking more than any character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elisabetta Duò Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 3 hours ago, khal drogon said: The OP is specifically talking about survival because of plot armor nothing about being hated or misjudged. And Tyrion definitely came out against odd situations alive and kicking more than any character. oh yes because surviving 394876929 murder attempts like Dany is not 'lucky', having somebody who comes to rescue you (without you even asking or knowing) is not lucky... etc. plus, coming out against odd situations alive is not luck in itself.. it depends on why and how you came out ... at times Tyrion came out because of luck (greyscale... IF he won't get belated greyscale), at times because he he earned it (trial in the Vale, for example) .. if he is able to convince other people of his reasons, if he creates a third way, if he is able to trick other people into help him or to convimce other people to help him, that is not 'luck', that is ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish Tully Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 On 9/14/2016 at 8:55 PM, The Pimp that was Promised said: I meant to include Littlefinger in the OP. I was shocked that the Lords Declarant didn't simply throw him out of the moon door. SR didn't particularly care for him and besides Ser Lother Brune, who would have stopped them? I doubt Ser Corbray would have risked his skin for Littlefinger. Why wouldn't Lyn Cordray risk his life for Littlefinger ? it seems that Littlefinger is paying him pretty handsomely for his services and frankly Lyn Cordray seems to the type of person who is always looking for a fight anyways so it would not take much to get him to risk his life . Littlefinger played the Lords Declarant perfectly so he did not need any luck to defeat them . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerBronnsMullet Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 On 9/15/2016 at 9:37 AM, Kaibaman said: In my opinion Robb was a pretty lucky dude at the start. When he marched south to rescue Ned he was able to cross Walder Frey's bridge for a small price, this then allowed him to take the Lannisters by surprise and defeat them at Riverrun cause they didn't suspect the Freys would ally with him and scored him Jaime who was a important hostage. Then thanks to his magical direwolf he was able to slip into the Westerlands undetected and allowed him pay them back in kind. Things only began going down hill when he kept pushing his luck. Sending Theon to Pyke (dumb decision), marrying Jeyne and breaking his pack with the Freys (super moronic), not to mention Cat releasing Jaime although that we cannot blame him for. But Lysa not helping, Tyrion pulling Blackwater out of his ass, Tywin arriving at KL just in time, Ser Rodrik not leaving enough people to guard Winterfell, and some other stuff was completely out of Robb's control so I would he he got extremely unlucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueNightzx Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Dany Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moiraine Sedai Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 It has to be that blockhead Jon Snow. He was a deserter of the Night's Watch. Sam's manipulations got him elected. Then he betrayed his sworn brothers and picked a fight with the Boltons. I consider it justice if he just stays dead from his stab wounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khal drogon Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 21 hours ago, Elisabetta Duò said: oh yes because surviving 394876929 murder attempts like Dany is not 'lucky', having somebody who comes to rescue you (without you even asking or knowing) is not lucky... etc. plus, coming out against odd situations alive is not luck in itself.. it depends on why and how you came out ... at times Tyrion came out because of luck (greyscale... IF he won't get belated greyscale), at times because he he earned it (trial in the Vale, for example) .. if he is able to convince other people of his reasons, if he creates a third way, if he is able to trick other people into help him or to convimce other people to help him, that is not 'luck', that is ability. Only if you apply the bolded to other characters even ones you hate instead of using hyperbolic arguments to make your case better. Tyrion was saved without him asking or knowing by Podrick. He survives being in the vanguard in the battle of Green fork despite having almost no battle experience. He was saved by Bronn in the Eyrie and luckily Lysa chose a knight who could be defeated by a common sellsword. He was lucky enough to survive the storm,drowning, greyscale,slavers and the lions in the fighting pit. A lot of them that has nothing to do with abilities. Even the so called ability is luring people with money because his father is the richest man in Westeros. And Daenerys survives assassination attempts because she was saved by people who has reason to be there. Like Jorah anticipating an assassination attempt in Vaes Dothrak being tipped by Varys and Barristan was there to save her because he is secretly following her. Nothing like Pod just happens to be there to save him from the KG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Only Dany. Her whole life from the beginning is her being lucky and not actually trying to do something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasta11 Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 On 15/09/2016 at 1:31 AM, khal drogon said: Do you realise we know more about LF than anyone in the books. We know LF is behind a lot of events but the book characters hardly have any idea. No one in the books have such a negative perception of him as the readers do. The Vale lords are more worried about the position he came from than what he is doing. So we may find him lucky or others in the book stupid but the fact is not anyone has any idea remotely close to know what he is doing except maybe Sansa. I think a group of proud nobles like the Lords Declarant should be far more wary of a guy who, in the span of one war, went from Robert's glorified copper counter to the de jure Lord of the Riverlands and the de facto Lord of the Vale. That's a ridiculously rapid ascension in their society. To say nothing of the fact that he marries Lysa out of the blue (as far as others are concerned) and poof, she dies under ridiculously fishy circumstances weeks later, conveniently leaving LF with an open path to power. But I'm sure that, apart from that, he's the nicest guy ever, nothing suspicious, move along now. But then again, as with most everyone surrounding Littlefinger, the Lords Declarant are written like a bunch of gullible fools so that Petyr can look smart in comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimim Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 2 hours ago, Jasta11 said: I think a group of proud nobles like the Lords Declarant should be far more wary of a guy who, in the span of one war, went from Robert's glorified copper counter to the de jure Lord of the Riverlands and the de facto Lord of the Vale. That's a ridiculously rapid ascension in their society. To say nothing of the fact that he marries Lysa out of the blue (as far as others are concerned) and poof, she dies under ridiculously fishy circumstances weeks later, conveniently leaving LF with an open path to power. But I'm sure that, apart from that, he's the nicest guy ever, nothing suspicious, move along now. But then again, as with most everyone surrounding Littlefinger, the Lords Declarant are written like a bunch of gullible fools so that Petyr can look smart in comparison. ita, and it's not just the Vale. EVERYTHING works for LF, from Ned's decision to become Hand to the unbelievably coincidental meeting between Cat and Tyrion at the Inn to Ned's warning Cersei. Look at the Purple Wedding: LF is counting on the dwarf show leading to a public quarrel between Joff and Tyrion, in which Joff must move to Tyrion's table with his chalice (without that, Tyrion won't be suspected). Joff leaves the chalice there to cut the pie, then returns to continue the fight. I mean...what are the odds? Anyway, yeah, his plot armor so far is insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Storm Reborn Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Nedbert... Man did they die on the right time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNR Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Rhaegar. Had all the information he needed to comprehend reality, repeatedly screwed it up, got himself killed... and the punishment for his folly? A cult worships him in another dimension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Jon Snow Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 Like people have said, it's Tyrion. Dude is the only person who I've genuinely felt has straight up plot armor. He's survived some of the most ridiculous events. He's like the ASOIAF version of that dude who was at Hiroshima and Nakasaki and somehow lived Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shameeka Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 Gilly's baby. If there hadn't been a mutiny against the Old Bear at the right time he would have been fed to the Others just like the rest of Craster's sons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Renee Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 3 hours ago, shameeka said: Gilly's baby. If there hadn't been a mutiny against the Old Bear at the right time he would have been fed to the Others just like the rest of Craster's sons. ^ yes! Brynden rivers did ok for a bastard, even got to lord comander status when banished to the wall and is now arguably one of the most if not most powerful people around behind the scenes. Aemon did ok too considering most of his family got murdered he was safe and respected at the wall. Davos is worth a mention. . How he survived the black water and has risen up from his days in flea bottom. Tyrion I agree is also lucky but has had alot of hardship on the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khal drogon Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 On Saturday, September 17, 2016 at 7:35 PM, Jasta11 said: I think a group of proud nobles like the Lords Declarant should be far more wary of a guy who, in the span of one war, went from Robert's glorified copper counter to the de jure Lord of the Riverlands and the de facto Lord of the Vale. That's a ridiculously rapid ascension in their society. To say nothing of the fact that he marries Lysa out of the blue (as far as others are concerned) and poof, she dies under ridiculously fishy circumstances weeks later, conveniently leaving LF with an open path to power. But I'm sure that, apart from that, he's the nicest guy ever, nothing suspicious, move along now. But then again, as with most everyone surrounding Littlefinger, the Lords Declarant are written like a bunch of gullible fools so that Petyr can look smart in comparison. He brokered the Lannister Tyrell alliance and thats what gave him lordship. Yeah they have to be wary and they are wary but not to the level expected. Not all Lords declarant fell to his plan especially Lord Royce and Lady Waynwood. As of now only few have started seeing something suspicious and they have yet to connect the dots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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