Star Trek: Discovery

[Derfel Cadarn]

Actually they addressed the warp drive limit - the engines were adjusted.

[Toth]

8 hours ago, RumHam said:

I'm pretty sure Star Trek continuity has always been pretty shitty. Remember when the Federation agreed to limit warp speed except for emergencies? Neither did DS9 or Voyager. The Trill in that TNG episode are so different from what we see in DS9. Sometimes you can't exceed warp 9.9, other times you can. One time doing so turned you into a lizard, for some reason. The one that bugs me the most is probably the nature of the Borg changing from an unemotional hive mind to a queen controlling everything. (also if you wanna assimilate Earth maybe send more than one cube next time? Just saying, queen.)

Almost all of the things you've mentioned are just Voyager being badly written. The speed limit thing was surely dismissed due to the wartime situation (though I've read that it is said sometime between the TNG movies the problem was solved by a new updated warp drive or something, which I think is a pretty lazy resolution for a global warming analogy). The warp 10 thing is handwaved by both the simultaneous introduction of a new warp scale and the Voyager episode in question being kinda officially banned from canon, that's how embarassing it was.

I also agree with the nature of the Borg, though I think there is even more change to it. In their first introduction the Borg were also uninterested in biological life and only cared about assimilating technology, not people, when in their later incarnation they made it their declared goal to guide all intelligent life to perfection (what in itself made them more interesting, actually). I also have the personal headcanon that they don't care all that much about the assimilation of the Federation because they see it as a collective much like themselves and prefer to keep it as a sparring partner in order develop ever more awesome technology for them to assimilate in an endless arms-race for all eternity. Them only attacking with only one ship at once therefore is just them handicapping themselves in order to no just overwhelm the Federation at once (though First Contact kinda contradict that headcanon...). For me the worst they did to the Borg was in Voyager, by turning them from an unstoppable force of nature where a single Cubus wipes the floor with the goddamn flagship of the federation in less than a second to a generic villain of the week where a tiny long-range-scout vessel can last minutes against them and then successfully flee... No, making them the final villain on Voyager was the biggest mistake they ever made.

But in a general sense, yes, Star Trek had its ups and downs in turn of continuity. There were simply too many authors in too many series involved in order to keep a strong hand over the franchise. And yet, despite some slip-ups, Star Trek always used to try to keep some kind of continuity alive, because it lived and breathed from this kind of all-compassing future universe. The technology, the ship design, everything was created around the idea that they seem to work in the same universe and that there is some kind of visible evolution there (which is why Enterprise got so much criticism in their early days because the ship seemed too advanced, though admittedly the Mirror Universe episodes managed to make up for that pretty well).

[Rhom]

Enterprise got flack for being too advanced?!!!?  It had a physical tow cable in the first season!!! 

[red snow]

3 hours ago, Toth said:

 I also have the personal headcanon that they don't care all that much about the assimilation of the Federation because they see it as a collective much like themselves and prefer to keep it as a sparring partner in order develop ever more awesome technology for them to assimilate in an endless arms-race for all eternity.

I really like this idea - it's a great way of keeping the Borg dangerous and explaining why they don't simply destroy the federation.

Let's just hope they don't bump into any Borg in "Discovery". Although they apparently showed up in "Enterprise" so I'd be surprised if we never see them. Although they might appear completely different when they do.

I am mildy excited about the premier though.

[Toth]

3 hours ago, Rhom said:

Enterprise got flack for being too advanced?!!!?  It had a physical tow cable in the first season!!! 

It kinda shows you how unpleasable the fanbase is, huh? I believe the criticism was mostly aimed at the bridge design though, that it was not retro enough due to the very... well, 60s elements of the first Enterprise. They tried, though. I always acknowledged that the designers of the show tried to make all the hardware of the NX-01 simplistic, with buttons and throwbacks like T'Pol using a sensor panel very similar to Spock's.

For that matter, when the Abramsverse movies came out I felt personally somewhat fine with the appstore bridge (though I did prefer the concept art of the one which kept the black/red/grey color scheme of the original TOS bridge intact) and was more annoyed at the scenes set in a fucking beer brewery with open ceilings and visible windows in some scenes. This in addition to that whole "let's upscale the whole ship for no reason at all" bullshit it kinda broke the Kelvin timeline as anything I could ever take seriously. Well, and the downright dumb scripts which fall apart under a minimum amount of scrutiny that is... Interestingly, what I liked about these movies is the energy of most of the main characters, especially Karl Urban, Zachary Quinto and John Cho. They bring the fun and positivity into the whole thing that I miss oh so very much on everything I have seen of Discovery so far. Which means that I probably do better pretending that this series doesn't exist.

[RumHam]

14 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Actually they addressed the warp drive limit - the engines were adjusted.

Huh, when was this brought up?`Not saying you're wrong I just seem to recall the speed limit being mentioned like once more (as they broke it for an emergency) and then never being mentioned again. 

13 hours ago, Toth said:

Almost all of the things you've mentioned are just Voyager being badly written.

I'll give you the lizard thing, and maaaaybe the Borg but that change really happened in TNG and First Contact. The rest have nothing to do with Voyager. Also that was just off the top of my head, I'm sure there are plenty more continuity problems. The Ferengi were also totally retooled, the Klingons are inconstant. (I don't think we ever see that "Yell your buddy into the afterlife thing" after season one of TNG, for example.)

But I agree with the rest of that you said. Especially about the Borg. 

[Werthead]

Quote

 

Actually they addressed the warp drive limit - the engines were adjusted.

 

I'm pretty sure that's either fanon or taken from Ronald D. Moore's blog. I may be wrong, but I don't recall it being mentioned in Voyager or DS9.

Quote

(I don't think we ever see that "Yell your buddy into the afterlife thing" after season one of TNG, for example

Worf does it for K'Ehyler in Season 2 and for Gowron in DS9 Season 7, and I think there's a few other occasions.

[Derfel Cadarn]

Youre right, it wqs never officially explained how Voyager started cruising over warp 5 without ruining space.  I think fanon made the assumption the new warp nacelles got round it. Wasnt so mich an issue for ds9 for seasons 1-2 due to them usibg runabouts.

[Rhom]

Opening visuals are gorgeous for a TV show.

No matter how good, I won’t be getting All Access though.

[jobmartell]

I'm ready for this. I'm going in assuming it will be better than expected. 15 years is a long time to wait. I'm ready for another chapter!

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

Planet of the Hermit Crabs? Off to a flying start. 

[drawkcabi]

"Contact Starfleet Command, tell them we've engaged...the Klingons."

Pulling out the big rip off homage guns early.

 

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

5 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Youre right, it wqs never officially explained how Voyager started cruising over warp 5 without ruining space.  I think fanon made the assumption the new warp nacelles got round it. Wasnt so mich an issue for ds9 for seasons 1-2 due to them usibg runabouts.

Was it that certain patch of space where they couldn't go faster than warp 5 or everywhere? 

[Rhom]

I really liked that.  And it makes me hate CBS even more.

[drawkcabi]

12 minutes ago, Arch-MaesterPhilip said:

Was it that certain patch of space where they couldn't go faster than warp 5 or everywhere? 

Well traveled warp speed "lanes" were in worse condition than other regions, but the speed limit was in effect everywhere they went.

They acknowledged it once or twice in subsequent episodes of TNG then it was just left and forgotten.

[drawkcabi]

I thought that it was completely mediocre. A lot of technobabble and exposition, even if it's not B&B producing, seems like they are still making some same mistakes from the Voyager/Enterprise days.

Also, instead of giving us the complete pilot episode then telling us we have to get CBS Access to watch the rest of the series, that was more like the first hour of the standard 2-hour Star Trek pilot and they only showed us the first hour. That's even cheaper on CBS' part than I originally thought.

Only minute desire to watch more, have no problem waiting until full season is out then getting CBS Access for a month watch it all and then cancel.

[Corvinus85]

Just now, drawkcabi said:

I thought that it was completely mediocre. A lot of technobabble and exposition, even if it's not B&B producing, seems like they are still making some same mistakes from the Voyager/Enterprise days.

Also, instead of giving us the complete pilot episode then telling us we have to get CBS Access to watch the rest of the series, that was more like the first hour of the standard 2-hour Star Trek pilot and they only showed us the first hour. That's even cheaper on CBS' part than I originally thought.

Only minute desire to watch more, have no problem waiting until full season is out then getting CBS Access for a month watch it all and then cancel.

Pretty much my feelings, too. The visuals were gorgeous, and the music was great. But I didn't like much of the dialogue, and the premise was only ok. And the fact that they only build up the tension in this first episode, without any kind of payoff was disappointing. 

[Aemon Stark]

I could use a bit more restraint in the sound design - and the Klingons are decent but so many subtitles - but I like this. 

I just hope it isn't *too* serialized as you can have discrete episodes that still maintain plot/character continuity. 

Regarding the Klingon death howl.... we actually got it here!

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

I have a free month of CBS All Access but so far I'm not impressed. 

The appearance of the Klingons bothers me. I hope they are just a subgroup vying for control of the Empire. 

[Aemon Stark]

8 minutes ago, drawkcabi said:

I thought that it was completely mediocre. A lot of technobabble and exposition, even if it's not B&B producing, seems like they are still making some same mistakes from the Voyager/Enterprise days.

Also, instead of giving us the complete pilot episode then telling us we have to get CBS Access to watch the rest of the series, that was more like the first hour of the standard 2-hour Star Trek pilot and they only showed us the first hour. That's even cheaper on CBS' part than I originally thought.

Only minute desire to watch more, have no problem waiting until full season is out then getting CBS Access for a month watch it all and then cancel.

I agree this was fairly exposition heavy. All the subtitled Klingon scenes feel a bit impenetrable. 

Fortunately in Canada they're showing episode two on Space immediately.