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Ice Lives: Theon Personifies the Sword Ice


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First of four parts.

Theon is Ice. After I noticed the wordplay connection between “wards” and “swords” in the series, I started seeing numerous hints that Theon represents the sword Ice. As Ned Stark’s ward, it makes sense that he would personify Ned Stark’s sword, right? I’ve mentioned this in a number of comments around the forum, but I’ve never posted the theory in a thread of its own. @ravenous reader kindly pulled together a bunch of my old “Theon = Ice” comments, making the task much easier.

As with many symbols in the ASOIAF novels, when I searched for quotes to firm up the foundation of this post, I realized that maybe “Theon = Ice” is oversimplified:

  • Our introduction to both Theon and Ice and some of the details later in the story seem to describe Theon giving birth to Ice. Is that what Ironborn is about?
  • Of course, there’s also the castration symbolism after Ramsay turns Theon into Reek. Is Theon still Ice after he loses his “sword”?
  • Is Theon still Ice after Ice becomes Oathkeeper and Widow’s Wail? Are we supposed to compare the splitting of Ice into two new swords to the torture that turns Theon into Reek?
  • Theon is closely attached to a dagger after Ramsay has maimed him. I have observed a link between daggers and deserters (who are often “ragged”), so maybe the dagger is an appropriate weapon of choice for Theon Turncloak.
  • Ice is Ned’s sword and the sword of House Stark. Theon is Ned’s ward. When Ned dies, does Theon become someone else’s sword?
  • Are there other characters who personify weapons? If so, how does that enrich or undermine this Theon theory?

Because of these complexities, I expect this thread will need updates as re-reads reveal relevant passages or as symbols become clearer through comparison of multiple excerpts. But I’ll start with the initial “Theon = Ice” material, which is extensive.

We meet Theon and Ice together

Lord Eddard Stark dismounted and his ward Theon Greyjoy brought forth the sword. "Ice," that sword was called. It was as wide across as a man's hand, and taller even than Robb. The blade was Valyrian steel, spell-forged and dark as smoke. Nothing held an edge like Valyrian steel.

(AGoT, Bran I)

He remembered the look on Father's face when Theon Greyjoy brought forth Ice, the spray of blood on the snow, the way Theon had kicked the head when it came rolling at his feet.

He wondered what Lord Eddard might have done if the deserter had been his brother Benjen instead of that ragged stranger. Would it have been any different? It must, surely, surely … and Robb would welcome him, for a certainty. He had to, or else …

(AGoT, Jon IX)

The reader is introduced to both Theon and Ice through the first Bran POV, when Lord Eddard Stark is about to administer “the King’s Justice” by beheading a deserter from the Night’s Watch. We know that the books are called “A Song of Ice and Fire,” so we suspect right away that a sword called Ice is an important element in the story. Indeed, we will experience this sword killing a deserter, a direwolf and Ned Stark. Ned’s sons express their desire to possess the sword and his daughter is worried when she doesn’t see the sword with the person she expects to carry it. Ned’s wife notices that the sword is missing when her husband’s bones are laid out for her to see. Later, we learn that the sword has been melted down and made into two new swords, one of which is taken on a quest to find Ned’s daughters and return them safely to friends or family in the North. Clearly, the sword is a family treasure, an important weapon and a symbol of the Stark family’s importance and dominion in the north and in Westeros in general.

While Ice is respected and valued by the family, Theon’s position in the Stark household is more equivocal. Theon’s father, Balon Greyjoy, led the people of the IronIslands in a rebellion against the rule of King Robert Baratheon. Ned Stark helped to put down the rebellion, in which Theon’s two older brothers were killed. As the male heir to the Greyjoy lordship, Theon was taken as a hostage to Winterfell. If Balon tried to rebel again, Theon’s life would be forfeit. Yet he was educated, clothed, trained in swordsmanship and other martial skills, and generally raised in accordance with his highborn status as a sort of foster brother to the Stark children.

"What I am about to tell you must not leave this room," she told them. "I want your oaths on that. ..."

"Lord Eddard is a second father to me," said Theon Greyjoy. "I do so swear."

 (AGoT, Catelyn III)

Lord Eddard had tried to play the father from time to time, but to Theon he had always remained the man who'd brought blood and fire to Pyke and taken him from his home. As a boy, he had lived in fear of Stark's stern face and great dark sword. His wife was, if anything, even more distant and suspicious.

(ACoK, Theon I)

This was never my home. I was a hostage here. Lord Stark had not treated him cruelly, but the long steel shadow of his greatsword had always been between them. He was kind to me, but never warm. He knew that one day he might need to put me to death.

(ADwD, The Prince of Winterfell)

These three excerpts present Theon’s words and thoughts about his relationship with Ned Stark (and Ned Stark’s sword) and they seem to show a hardening of his recollection over time: initially, he expresses his feeling that Lord Eddard is a second father to him (although maybe this is a commentary on the strained relationship between Theon and Balon as much as a description of the bond between Theon and Ned). The second excerpt says that Ned played the father, but Theon feared his face and sword. Finally, he claims that he always felt like a hostage and knew that he might be put to death. Is Theon changing his mind with these statements, or are they all true?

Does it help to re-read the three excerpts while thinking of Theon as a sword? Does a sword fear being used to kill? Even if it is being used by a father figure? The author likes to use ambiguous wording to convey two layers of meaning at once. The phrase, “one day he might need to put me to death,” conveys the possibility that Theon would be killed (like Gared in the opening Bran chapter) but might also mean that Theon would be put to use to cause death. Also note that Ned is “never warm” to Theon: it does seem logical that one would not want to be warm to a person or thing made of Ice, or to an inanimate object.

There is a lot of symbolism around shadows in the books, and Theon’s references to the sword include that it is “dark” and that it is (or has) a “long steel shadow”. Perhaps Theon is not the sword Ice per se, but the sword is Theon’s shadow?

Ironborn – With the Emphasis on Born

The natives of the IronIslands are known as the Ironborn. Their religion and way of life is different from any other region of Westeros, and they are proud to be separate and different. Our introduction to Theon and Ice includes an interesting choice of words that gives us a new insight about what it means to be Ironborn: in both the original Bran POV and in Jon’s recollection toward the end of AGoT, GRRM says that Theon “brought forth” the sword Ice. This verb phrase can mean that Theon simply carried the sword to Lord Eddard. But the two-word phrase is considered to be a synonym for producing fruit or giving birth. Look again at Jon’s description of the beheading:

He remembered the look on Father's face when Theon Greyjoy brought forth Ice, the spray of blood on the snow, the way Theon had kicked the head when it came rolling at his feet.

(AGoT, Jon IX)

There would be blood if someone had given birth, and babies are usually born head first (although one would hope that the birth mother would not kick the baby’s head). But this is a death, not a birth, right? Ah, but ASOIAF is all about the cycle of death and rebirth. I believe the “birth” of the sword Ice and the death of the deserter Gared is an early example of a death and rebirth scene, with the “deserter” foreshadowing Theon’s change of loyalties; he will be reborn as a traitor. There is wordplay around “ragged” deserters, daggers and the name Gared. We will see Theon called Theon Turncloak, dressed in filthy rags and in close partnership with a dagger when he returns to Winterfell for Ramsay Bolton’s wedding.

In addition to foreshadowing, GRRM tells us that death and birth are linked – Theon “brings forth” (gives birth to) the sword just as Gared dies. Perhaps this link exists only in very important births and/or deaths – Tyrion, Jon Snow and Danaery’s mothers apparently all died in childbirth, for instance. We are told by Mirri Maz Duur that only death can pay for life.

It would be interesting to examine other scenes where important swords are introduced to the reader to determine whether these swords suddenly “come to life” as a person (wight? animal?) dies. Sword “death” would also be an interesting topic. Even before meeting Theon, Ice and Gared, the reader is told that “a scream echoed through the forest night” as the longsword of Ser Waymar Royce shattered into brittle pieces. Instead of Gared’s death, is it the “death” of Royce’s sword that “pays for” the birth of Ice?

If it is correct to see the introduction of Ice/Theon and the death of Gared as a death and rebirth scene – one that is witnessed by Ned Stark – Theon’s bringing forth of the sword must also be an allusion to the Tower of Joy “bed of blood” scene with Lyanna Stark. Perhaps this sword birth with blood on the snow is our first hint about the nature of Jon Snow’s birth and his destiny as a great “sword.”

In the previous section, I noted the reference to the long steel shadow of the sword Ice. If the birth imagery is correct, there is also a comparison here to the shadow baby to which Melisandre gives birth as Davos Seaworth looks on. Her so-called “shadow baby” is the image of King Stannis and it is used to kill the guardian of Edric Storm (illegitimate son of King Robert), as well as King Renly. Remember that: the shadow of Stannis killing his own brother. Theon bears Ice, which kills Ned Stark who is the guardian of the illegitimate Jon Snow; Is Theon’s “shadow,” Ice, also a kingslayer? Will Theon’s shadow kill his own “brother”? Or is this all mere coincidence?

I can’t help pointing out that the “Theon brought forth” phrase might also allude to a very famous line from U.S. President Abraham Lincoln. Lincoln’s 1863 speech, The Gettysburg Address, recalls the founding of the nation and urges Americans to support the northern cause in the civil war and to reunite the country with a “new birth of freedom” after the bloody civil war: “Four score and seven years ago, our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation. . .” If nothing else, Lincoln’s speech supports the notion that fathers can (symbolically) give birth.

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Second of four parts.

More Sword Births and Marriages

As I’ve explored this new idea of Theon giving birth to a sword, I’ve notice other examples of Ironborn characters that seem to give birth to blades:

"All that about being a woman wed, and new with child . . ."

"Oh, that part was true enough." Asha leapt to her feet. "Rolfe, here," she shouted down at one of the finger dancers, holding up a hand. He saw her, spun, and suddenly an axe came flying from his hand, the blade gleaming as it tumbled end over end through the torchlight. Theon had time for a choked gasp before Asha snatched the axe from the air and slammed it down into the table, splitting his trencher in two and splattering his mantle with drippings. "There's my lord husband." His sister reached down inside her gown and drew a dirk from between her breasts. "And here's my sweet suckling babe."

He could not imagine how he looked at that moment, but suddenly Theon Greyjoy realized that the Great Hall was ringing with laughter, all of it at him. Even his father was smiling, gods be damned, and his uncle Victarion chuckled aloud. The best response he could summon was a queasy grin. We shall see who is laughing when all this is done, bitch.

(ACoK, Theon II)

"Enough," snarled Dagon Codd. "You think you can frighten ironborn with words? Begone. Run back to your master before I open your belly, pull your entrails out, and make you eat them."

He might have said more, but suddenly his eyes gaped wide. A throwing axe sprouted from the center of his forehead with a solid thunk. Codd's sword fell from his fingers. He jerked like a fish on a hook, then crashed face-first onto the table.

It was the one-armed man who'd flung the axe. As he rose to his feet he had another in his hand. "Who else wants to die?" he asked the other drinkers. "Speak up, I'll see you do."

(ADwD, Reek II)

The throwing axe sprouting from Dagon Codd’s forehead makes sense as a birth if you think of Athena springing full grown from the forehead of Zeus. Athena is the goddess of wisdom, and Dagon Codd was actually somewhat wise, before he was killed: when Theon tries to persuade the Ironborn holding Moat Cailin to surrender to Ramsay Snow, Codd challenges Theon as an untrustworthy turncloak. It turns out that Codd was right to distrust Theon, who is aware that Ramsay intends to kill all of the Iron Islanders, in spite of Theon’s promises of safety. Too bad for Codd that the Iron Islanders give birth to weapons instead of wise goddesses.

These two examples show that “bearing” a weapon can include axes and knives, as well as swords and, in the example featuring Asha, that the “birth” need not occur at a moment of death. Theon encounters several one-armed men in the course of the books. For what it’s worth, Codd’s one-armed killer may symbolize a Lannister as the one-armed warrior is associated with Jaime and with attacks by Lannisters in general.

I will have to pay more attention to weapon “birth” on my next re-read, and it’s possible that giving birth to, and personifying, blades is not a quality unique to Iron Islanders. For instance, Catelyn makes this observation of Robb:

He had pledged himself to marry a daughter of Walder Frey, but she saw his true bride plain before her now: the sword he had laid on the table.

(AGoT, Catelyn XI)

Tywin Lannister may also subscribe to the mindset of sword birth:

“With this fool’s jabber of Stannis and his magic sword, it seemed to me that we had best give Joffrey something extraordinary as well. A king should bear a kingly weapon.”

(ASoS, Tyrion IV)

From another culture, Norvos, we have another example of man / axe bonding:

He was only a captain of guards, and still a stranger to this land and its seven-faced god, even after all these years. Serve. Obey. Protect. He had sworn those vows at six-and-ten, the day he wed his axe. Simple vows for simple men, the bearded priests had said.

(AFfC, The Captain of the Guards)

Ironborn – With the Emphasis on Iron

The best swords in Westeros are made of steel. In real life, one would assume that swords are inanimate objects and devoid of morality. They can be wielded by whichever human grabs the hilt and swings the blade. The idea of an inanimate weapon without a conscience might help to explain some of Theon’s turncloak behavior: he can be picked up and used in either a “just” or a violent way (or both) by whoever is nearby. When he was Ned’s ward/sword, he was guided by Ned’s conscience and he lived a relatively moral life. When Ned died, Theon subsequently departed from Robb, and then was on his own or acted on his father's orders. He had no moral guide in his life. Finally, he fell into Ramsay's hands and inflicted the worst violence on his Winterfell companions as well as his fellow Ironborn. He's a weapon, not a knight.

Being an amoral object could also help to explain Theon’s miraculous ability to survive harrowing situations: What’s dead can never die. He seems unscathed after close combat in several battles on behalf of Robb Stark. There is also a symbolic “River Styx” scene in which Robb, the direwolf Grey Wind, Catelyn and Theon all take a small boat across a river. (Note the boat passing beneath the shadow before it touches the light.) Soon, Robb, Grey Wind and Catelyn will all be dead – symbolically crossing the River Styx. Why is Theon the sole survivor of the boating party in the River Styx foreshadowing scene? I believe it’s because of his Ironborn “What’s dead can never die” status.

They passed beneath the arch and under the walls, moving from sunlight to shadow and back into sunlight. Boats large and small were tied up all around them, secured to iron rings set in the stone. Her father's guards waited on the water stair with her brother. …

"Bring them in," Ser Edmure commanded. Three men scrambled down the stairs knee-deep in the water and pulled the boat close with long hooks. … Theon Greyjoy vaulted over the side of the boat and lifted Catelyn by the waist, setting her on a dry step above him as water lapped around his boots.

(AGoT, Catelyn XI)

At the conclusion of the symbolic river crossing, I wondered why the author had included the detail about water lapping around Theon’s boots. It occurred to me that Theon had just been in the Battle of the Whispering Wood. What does a sword need after being used in combat? A whetstone, to sharpen its edge. The wet steps at Riverrun are made of stone. I believe GRRM is using the whetstone / wet stone pun to reinforce the idea that Theon is a sword.

The Ironborn "paying the iron price" philosophy is consistent with the notion that Theon (and probably other Ironborn) represent amoral swords. I believe there may be another motif built on the pun of steal and steel, perhaps implying that people who personify swords feel justified in stealing from others when they can do so by force. The pun could also describe the taking of swords themselves, however: the books indicate that the Valyrian steel sword Red Rain was stolen from its original owner and is in use by an Iron born family. Some might argue that the sword Ice is stolen from House Stark after Ned’s death.

My lord father would approve. Theon thought of seeking out the bodies of the two men he'd slain himself to see if they had any jewelry worth the taking, but the notion left a bitter taste in his mouth. He could imagine what Eddard Stark would have said. Yet that thought made him angry too. Stark is dead and rotting, and naught to me, he reminded himself.

(ACoK, Theon III)

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Third of four parts

Annealing, Quenching, Tempering, Forging

I don’t know much about metallurgy, but there are some actions associated with the strengthening and shaping of metal, particularly iron and steel, that match elements of Theon’s experience. (Many of these actions fit the arcs of other characters as well, but I will leave most of those to be described in future essays or by other contributors in the comments section.) Earlier in this essay, I mentioned the possible whetstone / wet stone treatment for Theon, which is a type of metalworking unique to sharpening and polishing a blade. Here are some other terms from metal working that seem relevant:

Annealing - a heat treatment to achieve greater toughness by decreasing the hardness of a metal alloy. The reduction in hardness is usually accompanied by an increase in ductility, decreasing the brittleness of the metal.

Quenching - to cool suddenly by plunging into a liquid, as in tempering steel by immersion in water.

Tempering - to impart strength or toughness to (steel or cast iron) by heating and cooling.

Forging - to form by heating and hammering; beat into shape.

Alloy - a substance composed of two or more metals, or of a metal or metals with a nonmetal, intimately mixed, as by fusion or electrodeposition.

Some of these terms are related, obviously: one might temper steel by alternating annealing and quenching, for instance.

There are two or more significant moment of kneeling by Theon that could be linked to the process of annealing iron. My first example of Theon kneeling is combined with the drowned god ritual of submerging in water for the purpose of coming back to life, so it could also reflect the process of quenching steel to make it stronger. In the scene, Theon re-enacts the kneeling done by Thorren Stark, the last Stark king, bending the knee to Aegon the Conqueror. The role of Aegon is played by Theon's uncle, Aeron, a priest of the drowned god. Although he doesn’t want to get dirt on his fancy outfit, Theon submits to Aeron’s command to kneel because he believes this will eventually help him to become king of the IronIslands. Instead of taking his crown, as Aegon did to Thorren, Aeron baptizes Theon with seawater. Aeron is the arbiter of the Kingsmoot. Blessing Theon in the name of the Drowned God may have been a symbolic crowning by Aeron of the real king of the Iron Born.

Drowning, including the ritual for followers of the drowned god, is linked through wordplay to the crowning of a king. Not to get too far away from our sword focus here, but many kings who allow themselves to be crowned die soon after donning the symbolic hat for the first time – Viserys with his molten gold crown and Robb and Renly are examples. The fact that Theon is not crowned here, and that he echoes the kneeling and surrendering of a crown in this scene, could show that he is a character destined to survive. Aeron is ensuring that his nephew has not taken on the religious beliefs of the green lands in this scene, ensuring that the heir of the IronIslands has saltwater hair. The wordplay that brings us back to swords is that Thorren Stark rose as Warden of the North after kneeling to Aegon. I believe that wardens and stewards could be linked through wordplay to the wards and swords wordplay that initiated this whole line of thinking about Theon and the sword Ice. Aeron effectively takes back Theon as a sword for the Greyjoy family, ending Theon’s status as a ward of Ned Stark.

Alloy and alliance are words with a common root (from Latin alligare "bind to"), and may be part of the wordplay that helps us to understand swords. An alloy is a substance comprised of two or more metals or other substances that takes on properties of both source materials – strength and flexibility, for instance. Theon is allied with more than one house during the course of the novel, and seems to take on different personality traits according to the nature of the people around him. Of course, we see many other alliances of individuals and houses and would-be kings throughout the novels, literally and  symbolically strengthening each member of the alliance, like a metal alloy. In producing an alloy, there is a risk that contaminants can be introduced, weakening or even ruining the product instead of strengthening it.

Tomb as Forge

Forge is the name for a blacksmith’s work area, usually containing a special fireplace or furnace for heating metal. In ASOIAF, the forge that is described in the greatest detail is the shop of Tobho Mott, the smith in King’s Landing who has taken in King Robert’s illegitimate son, Gendry, as an apprentice. One day, I happened to notice that the words “hot tomb” could be made out of Tobho Mott’s name. Did the author want us to think of a tomb in association with a blacksmith and his forge? It immediately dawned on me that the crypt at Winterfell was a symbolic forge, and that young Starks are symbolically forged and reforged when they play in the crypt before going forth outside of the double walls of the castle to engage with the rest of the world.

There has been extensive discussion of Theon’s dream of a feast of the dead at Winterfell (ACoK, Theon V). Although Theon doesn’t say that the dream takes place in the Winterfell crypt, it features many people who readers have seen in the crypt, or whose remains are now in the crypt. Later (ADwD, The Turncloak), Theon takes Lady Dustin into the Winterfell crypt where he has clearly spent time learning which tomb belongs to which King or Lord of the Stark line.

It was no coincidence that Lady Dustin went into the crypt with Theon. While they are in the crypt, she tells Theon about losing her virginity to Brandon Stark, Ned’s brother, when he was the heir of Winterfell, and describes it in terms of a bloody sword: “Brandon loved his sword. … ‘A bloody sword is a beautiful thing,’ he told me once. … I still remember the look of my maiden’s blood on his cock the night he claimed me. I think Brandon liked the sight as well. A bloody sword is a beautiful thing, yes. It hurt, but it was a sweet pain” (ADwD, The Turncloak).

Theon has been through an excruciating ordeal at the hands of Ramsay Bolton, and identifies as Reek, almost completely losing his identity as Theon. I read this scene as Ned's sword / ward Theon needing to be reborn in that crypt – the Stark forge. Lady Dustin is a necessary ingredient in his rejuvenation: she gave her blood to the Stark sword years ago; now she gives Theon a safe moment to confess that he always wanted to be a Stark. He emerges from the crypt freed by Lady Dustin to be Theon again, contrasting with his emergence from the dungeon of the Dreadfort, where Little and Big Walder reminded him that his name was Reek before bringing him up to the surface.

Is that crypt visit where Theon’s re-forging begins?

Ghostly Rebirth?

"That king is missing his sword," Lady Dustin observed.

It was true. Theon did not recall which king it was, but the longsword he should have held was gone. Streaks of rust remained to show where it had been. The sight disquieted him. He had always heard that the iron in the sword kept the spirits of the dead locked within their tombs. If a sword was missing …

There are ghosts in Winterfell. And I am one of them.

(ADwD, The Turncloak)

This excerpt prompts a new line of thought about the nature of Theon’s rebirth. Each Stark tomb has a stone image of the occupant, a stone direwolf and a sword. As Theon points out, the sword is said to ensure that the spirit of the deceased person stays in the tomb. Ned’s bones and his sword are both missing. If Theon personifies Ned’s sword, does the absence of a sword for Ned mean that Ned’s spirit is wandering around Westeros or Winterfell? Theon goes on to say that he is one of the ghosts in Winterfell. This could raise the possibility again of sword “death,” as mentioned earlier on this thread, but adding now the question of sword “afterlife” or “souls.” Do swords have spirits that can wander when their tombs are incomplete?

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Fourth of four parts.

The Pools in Winterfell

I don’t know if every scene with a pool and a personified sword, such as Theon, is an allusion to the quenching step in annealing steel. A very early scene in ASOIAF shows Ned simply cleaning the blood off the greatsword after the execution of Gared. He sits in the godswood and wipes the blade clean using water from the pool at its based:

…Here every castle had its godswood, and every godswood had its heart tree, and every heart tree its face.

Catelyn found her husband beneath the weirwood, seated on a moss-covered stone. The greatsword Ice was across his lap, and he was cleaning the blade in those waters black as night. A thousand years of humus lay thick upon the godswood floor, swallowing the sound of her feet, but the red eyes of the weirwood seemed to follow her as she came. "Ned," she called softly.

He lifted his head to look at her. "Catelyn," he said. His voice was distant and formal. "Where are the children?"

(AGoT, Catelyn I)

This sword-cleaning scene finds an echo in a scene with Theon, years later, at Winterfell after the wedding of Ramsay Bolton:

Snow was falling on the godswood too, melting when it touched the ground. Beneath the white-cloaked trees the earth had turned to mud. Tendrils of mist hung in the air like ghostly ribbons. Why did I come here? These are not my gods. This is not my place. The heart tree stood before him, a pale giant with a carved face and leaves like bloody hands.

A thin film of ice covered the surface of the pool beneath the weirwood. Theon sank to his knees beside it. "Please," he murmured through his broken teeth, "I never meant …" The words caught in his throat. "Save me," he finally managed. "Give me …" What? Strength? Courage? Mercy? Snow fell around him, pale and silent, keeping its own counsel. The only sound was a faint soft sobbing. Jeyne, he thought. It is her, sobbing in her bridal bed. Who else could it be? Gods do not weep. Or do they?

The sound was too painful to endure. Theon grabbed hold of a branch and pulled himself back to his feet, knocked the snow off his legs, and limped back toward the lights. There are ghosts in Winterfell, he thought, and I am one of them.

(ADwD, The Turncloak)

The literal greatsword Ice is not present, but there is a “thin film of ice,” perhaps a ghost of the sword like the ghosts Theon senses all around Winterfell. And Theon is not cleaning blood from himself as he kneels beside the same pool, it is snow that he knocks off his legs.

Later, after his journey into the crypt with Lady Dustin, Theon returns to the same pool in the Winterfell godswood:

In the godswood the snow was still dissolving as it touched the earth. Steam rose off the hot pools, fragrant with the smell of moss and mud and decay. A warm fog hung in the air, turning the trees into sentinels, tall soldiers shrouded in cloaks of gloom. During daylight hours, the steamy wood was often full of northmen come to pray to the old gods, but at this hour Theon Greyjoy found he had it all to himself.

And in the heart of the wood the weirwood waited with its knowing red eyes. Theon stopped by the edge of the pool and bowed his head before its carved red face. Even here he could hear the drumming, boom DOOM boom DOOM boom DOOM boom DOOM. Like distant thunder, the sound seemed to come from everywhere at once.

The night was windless, the snow drifting straight down out of a cold black sky, yet the leaves of the heart tree were rustling his name. "Theon," they seemed to whisper, "Theon."

The old gods, he thought. They know me. They know my name. I was Theon of House Greyjoy. I was a ward of Eddard Stark, a friend and brother to his children. "Please." He fell to his knees. "A sword, that's all I ask. Let me die as Theon, not as Reek." Tears trickled down his cheeks, impossibly warm. "I was ironborn. A son … a son of Pyke, of the islands."

A leaf drifted down from above, brushed his brow, and landed in the pool. It floated on the water, red, five-fingered, like a bloody hand. "… Bran," the tree murmured.

(ADwD, A Ghost in Winterfell)

This time, Theon is not a sword being cleansed of snow or blood; I believe he is being forged. It is warm enough in the “steamy” godswood that the snow is melting. The drumming sound is like the sound of the blacksmith’s hammer, shaping the steel. Theon remembers his name, his identity, his relationships with the Starks. He kneels again and asks … to be given a sword? Or to be a sword? The author loves to use ambiguous wording such as the phrasing here: “A sword. That’s all I ask. Let me die as Theon … I was ironborn.” I believe GRRM is deliberately giving us Theon as a reverse Pinocchio, wishing that he could become a sword, as he had been in the past. Instead of Ned’s bloody hand cleaning the blade of his greatsword, Theon is answered by a leaf shaped like a bloody hand and the name of Bran. I believe that Bran has taken up his father’s sword at this point; that Bran is answering Theon’s wish and symbolically reforging or repairing Theon back into a Stark family sword. He is also taking up Theon as a weapon.

A prior ADwD POV, before the cleaning and the re-forging scenes, described Theon’s early relationship with the godswood:

Theon Greyjoy was no stranger to this godswood. He had played here as a boy, skipping stones across the cold black pool beneath the weirwood, hiding his treasures in the bole of an ancient oak, stalking squirrels with a bow he made himself. Later, older, he had soaked his bruises in the hot springs after many a session in the yard with Robb and Jory and Jon Snow. In amongst these chestnuts and elms and soldier pines he had found secret places where he could hide when he wanted to be alone. The first time he had ever kissed a girl had been here. Later, a different girl had made a man of him upon a ragged quilt in the shade of that tall grey-green sentinel.

He had never seen the godswood like this, though—grey and ghostly, filled with warm mists and floating lights and whispered voices that seemed to come from everywhere and nowhere. Beneath the trees, the hot springs steamed. Warm vapors rose from the earth, shrouding the trees in their moist breath, creeping up the walls to draw grey curtains across the watching windows.

(ADwD, The Prince of Winterfell)

Treasures, being alone, having sex for the first time – being “made a man.” And there’s an indirect reference to swords in there, as Theon recalls training sessions involving sword fighting with Jory Cassel and Robb and Jon. This is clearly a special place for Theon. But he is seeing the godswood in a new way after his torture by Ramsay and while participating in the wedding of the fake Arya.

When Theon says he is “no stranger” to the godswood, this phrase could convey several meanings. Among the seven new gods, The Stranger personifies death. So the “no stranger” comment could be an indication that an aspect of Theon has been reborn at this moment – he is alive. In the prior paragraph, he did describe his white hair and sallow grey skin, alluding to the grey and white colors of House Stark, and joked to himself that he had become, “A Stark at last.” But the sword Ice is also closely associated with The Stranger through its use by Ser Ilyn Payne, the royal executioner known as the King’s Justice, who uses the sword to behead Ned Stark. Ser Ilyn closely resembles the archetype of death in western literature, with his silence and his official role in causing people to die. So Theon’s “no stranger” comment could be a way of saying that Theon is not an executioner when he is in this godswood. Hunting, healing, kissing, having sex, warmth, whispering – these are lively, positive memories and new associations. “No stranger” could mean that Theon is not a killer. His recovery may have begun at this wedding, in addition to the important rejuvenation that took place with Lady Dustin in the crypt.

The Poole in Winterfell

Speaking of the wedding, there is a very important Poole that I haven’t discussed yet. The bride who is pretending to be Arya is actually Jeyne Poole. We have seen the pool in the  Winterfell godswood used for cleaning and (possibly) for quenching the newly forged sword that is Theon. Does Jeyne Poole play a similar role in the “Theon-as-sword” symbolism?

Aside from representing Arya (possibly foreshadowing events in Arya’s future), I believe that Jeyne is supposed to symbolize another type of pool in Theon’s arc. I believe that the oral sex on Jeyne (and let’s be sure to call it what it is: rape) is a complicated way of showing one aspect of the reforging of Theon as a sword.

The reader needs no reminding that Theon has been castrated by this point in the story. So he no longer has the kind of “sword” that Lady Dustin referred to when she said that Brandon Stark (Ned’s brother) liked to get blood on his sword. But Ramsay insists that Theon (as Reek) be part of the wedding and bedding processes, ceremonially giving away the bride to her groom, undressing her by cutting away her clothes with a knife, and performing oral sex on her. Cutting fabric is a topic for another thread, but the oral sex seems directly relevant to this sword discussion: Theon may be unable to genitally copulate with a woman, but he still has his tongue. (When he parts from Lady Dustin after emerging from the crypt, he specifically makes note of his desire to retain his tongue.) The tongue and sword connection has been made in other places in the books:

  • Ser Ilyn Payne who has no tongue but has a sword with runes (writing) on it. (Fwiw, at one point, Theon as Reek muses, “Jeyne, Jeyne it rhymes with pain.”)
  • Brienne thinks Biter is sticking out his tongue while attacking her, but the tongue is actually Gendry’s sword coming through the back of Biter’s head as he is slain.

The assault on Jeyne can be compared to the assault on Winterfell, with Theon initiating the invasion and Ramsay making things worse with the destruction of the castle and the injuries he inflicts on Jeyne. Perhaps Theon’s escape from Winterfell with Jeyne is part of the reforging of Theon as a sword, as well as his atonement for his apparent kinslaying, turncloak past.  Look again at one of Theon’s prayers in the gods wood and trace the path of his words:

A thin film of ice covered the surface of the pool beneath the weirwood. Theon sank to his knees beside it. "Please," he murmured through his broken teeth, "I never meant …" The words caught in his throat. "Save me," he finally managed. "Give me …" What? Strength? Courage? Mercy? Snow fell around him, pale and silent, keeping its own counsel. The only sound was a faint soft sobbing. Jeyne, he thought. It is her, sobbing in her bridal bed.

(ADwD, The Turncloak)

Ice (on the pool) has almost disintegrated. Theon wants to be saved. This redemption can happen if he is given . . . Jeyne Poole. On some level, Theon is realizing that restoration of his mind and soul will come through Jeyne.

Other People as Swords

Although the “Theon = Ice” theory was the first specific example that occurred to me of a person who matched up with a sword, I realized that there are other ways that people are “forged” or “born” as weapons. Eventually, I even picked out other examples or read some good posts outlining the personification of swords. In an earlier section of this essay, I provided examples of Asha, Dagon Codd, Robb Stark and Areo Hotah wedding or giving birth to swords or blades.

I have only dipped into the thoughtful discussion on the “Bran’s Growing Powers” thread, but there has been some discussion there and on the “Seams, Portals” thread of @ravenous reader’s idea that Bran has been forged as a powerful Stark weapon.

@ravenous reader suggests that Bran after his injury is like the Waymar Royce sword shattered by the wight in the opening prologue of AGoT. The metaphor then takes an additional step, and Bran and the shattered sword can both be compared to a tree that has been struck by lightning. @Lost Melnibonean points out that, “The George has compared the Others to the Sidhe of Irish folklore. According to such folklore, the splits in a tree caused by lightning strikes can serve as pathways to the world of the Sidhe.” So weapons, trees, lightning and pathways could all be linked symbols that will help us to sort out the purpose of Bran and other major characters.

On a re-read a few months ago, I realized that Jon also becomes sword-like when he deserts the Night’s Watch and rides south with the intent of joining Robb to fight the Lannisters (AGoT, Jon IX). We see the possible annealing and quenching behavior again: Jon’s hand had been burned when he used fire to defeat the wight that attacked Mormont, and he cools the injury by putting his hand into a pool of melted ice. As he escapes Castle Black, Jon hides in a hooded cloak. He carries a sword and dagger that are wrapped in black moleskin, so he and his weapons are all sheathed and have all “taken the black.” He pictures revealing himself to Robb, but can’t quite complete the image of reuniting with his brother. Similarly, Theon wears a hooded cloak and finds that the wind, “pushed back his hood as if a ghost had plucked at him with frozen fingers, hungry to gaze upon his face” (ADwD, The Prince of Winterfell). In both cases, I think the author is showing young men who want to function as “swords” for a brother – Jon for Robb and Theon for Bran (who communicates through winds and whispering leaves). When Jon’s Night’s Watch brothers compel him to return to Castle Black, Mormont points out that he would not be able to accomplish much good as one more fighter among thousands fighting with Robb (unless a grumkin will magic-up his sword), but that his blood and his wolf have special roles beyond the Wall. Instead of being a sword, Jon picks up a sword. Theon, on the other hand, is fully revealed when the wind pushes back his hood. I believe he becomes a weapon for Bran over the course of these wedding and post-wedding Winterfell chapters.

Finally, I was surprised to find something completely new and unexpected in my eleventy-billionth re-read of Joffrey’s death. If you re-read the wedding feast scene with the idea that Joffrey is being made into a sword, it appears that the Tyrells are the smiths. Here’s the meat of that observation:

When Joffrey starts choking, we have Ser Garlan Tyrell pounding him on the back and Mace Tyrell bellowing. These are the actions of a smith in a forge - pounding and using a bellows. Joffrey's nails tearing flesh, Joffrey making a clacking sound, and his face turning red and then black. Joffrey pointing. Swords tear flesh, clack against other swords, point. When they are being forged, swords turn red and then black. … [The] "reforging" [is] not necessarily causing Joffrey's death, but somehow transforming him into a new sword. Tommen? Will Widow's Wail come back into the story in a way that shows Joffrey's intentions being carried out; the sword symbolizing Joffrey's continuing presence in the world?

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On 9/21/2016 at 2:41 PM, Seams said:

maybe “Theon = Ice” is oversimplified:

  • Our introduction to both Theon and Ice and some of the details later in the story seem to describe Theon giving birth to Ice. Is that what Ironborn is about?

Thanks for the kind mention @Seams!

Considering how frequently we hear of 'the Sword of the Morning' -- at once a missing sword, a legendary deceased person, an unfilled office, and a star (both in the firmament and fallen to earth) -- we are obviously invited by the author to take a look at the wider symbolism of swords, and to hunt for further personified swords and people metaphorically represented as swords. I am also reminded of your thoughts on disembodied hands, acting as 'swordhands' or 'Hands', implying that someone may be wielded like a sword by an unseen agent (as you explained, for example, in the case of Tywin's 'catspaw' modus operandi, literally the disembodied 'feline hand').  

It's worth noting that, like people, swords are given names (to which the fanbase is very attached almost deeming them favorite long-lost friends) and delivering a 'sentence' is equated with swinging a sword.  Thus, 'speaking fluently' (having a viable tongue as you pointed out, or sword) is an important marker of virility and potency.  Correspondingly, when Theon is reduced to 'Reek' and castrated by Ramsay, he loses his name ('it's important to know your name') and the ability to speak in coherent sentences, with all that implies.  Following his torture, his fragmented 'self' can only speak in inane broken rhymes, until Lady Dustin (whom I consider to be a gatekeeper of the underworld realm at Burrowton Hall a major underworld seam or portal as you and @Wizz-The-Smith have recently identified) and Bran-via-the weirwood act to restore ('rejuvenate' is the word you used) his linguistic and martial potential (giving him back his 'bite,' embodying Theon Stark the hungry wolf, with whom Theon self-identifies in the crypts prior to his 'baptism' at the heart tree where Bran reaches out and touches him at his third-eye, blessing him with a blood red hand...'a bloody sword is a beautiful thing').  

Above, you referred to Theon's role 'bringing forth' Ice.  Are you thereby referring to Theon unsheathing Ned's greatsword for the execution?  In that case, it seems Theon is not giving birth to Ice so much as functioning as midwife (castrated, he is more of a 'wife' now I suppose), pulling Ice (the newborn babe, a metaphor for a weapon of which his sister Asha would approve) from its sheath (the vaginal analog) -- although I could see how you might conceivably make a case for Theon being the 'mother' bringing forth the child and/or 'newborn' being brought forth too. 

 In this capacity of 'midwife,' I'm reminded of @sweetsunray's concept of 'psychopomp' a spirit guide mediating passage for the dead to the after-life (often given anthropomorphic forms such as 'horses, deer, dogs, whip-poor-wills, ravens, crows, owls, sparrows, and cuckoos. When seen as birds, they are often seen in huge masses, waiting outside the home of the dying' [from Wikipedia]).  I favor the figure of the raven for Theon in particular, since I believe he's on his way to becoming Bran's 'well-trained raven' (ravens like midwives are involved in deliveries of various kinds, and often co-operate with wolves or bears as @sweetsunray has brought to my attention),  the same role on account of which his father Balon originally rejected him, setting him on his Reek-ward course.  

Fittingly, he finds himself increasingly drawn to frequenting the godswood and rookery!  I also think his status as 'raven' was foreshadowed in his transitional 'Reek' identity, whereby his incessant harsh rhymes of 'Reek Reek Reek it rhymes with shriek, etc.' can be imaginatively configured as a raven's call (just as irritating and insistent; and Reek...it also rhymes with 'beak,' ha ha...).  Additionally, it could be argued that Ramsay's reduced his hands, by cutting off his fingers, to appendages resembling the claws of birds (like Bran's hands as noted by Jon following the crippling; or the Children of the forest).  Apparently, in an excerpt from the upcoming book, Theon is delighted that the ravens know his name, erupting in a chorus of 'Theon' when they see him, claiming him as one of them and welcoming him into the linguistic realm of 'those who sing' (which may include a 'song of swords').  Perhaps the concepts of serving as Bran's raven and his sword can be combined.  We know of such an example whereby Bloodraven's elite fighting force (private guards/archers) is euphemistically referred to as 'the Raven's Teeth'!  

That aside, what most interested me in the Wiki article was that a psychopomp not only functions at death, but in some cultures also has a role to play mediating the spiritual passage at birth, functioning as a midwife, 'doula', or shaman (often castratees themselves):

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In Jungian psychology, the psychopomp is a mediator between the unconscious and conscious realms. It is symbolically personified in dreams as a wise man or woman, or sometimes as a helpful animal. In many cultures, the shaman also fulfills the role of the psychopomp. This may include not only accompanying the soul of the dead, but also to help at birth, to introduce the newborn child's soul to the world. This also accounts for the contemporary title of "midwife to the dying", or "End of Life Doula", which is another form of psychopomp work.

 Should Theon (meaning 'godly') be a spiritual midwife/raven figure, then it's possible that he has an important role to play in 'delivering' Bran -- who could also be a strong contender for the Ice equivalent -- from the chthonic underworld setting where he currently resides as a 'ghost' of sorts.  Alternatively, It's also possible that I've gotten the symbolism 'back-to-front,' and that Bran not Theon is more suited to be the 'psychopomp' guiding Theon 'the ghost' up from the nightmarish underworld in which he's been residing as Reek.  Nevertheless, here I will focus on the former thesis, reserving an exploration of your excellent ideas surrounding Theon for a further occasion.

Bran, like Ice, has undergone several symbolic breakings, re-forgings, temperings, annealings, quenchings, etc.  First, his fall from the tower, which as I've said is likened to a lightning strike, after he happened upon Jaime and Cersei engaged in mating, which is suggestive of 'forging' (think of Jon and Ygritte cavorting in the cavern, kissed by fire and dunked in the pool), making the scene in the broken tower a symbolic forge into which Bran ventured to his detriment, and got burnt.  @LmL would no doubt say he plummeted to earth like an incandescent moon meteor or morning star, initiated by the collision of celestial bodies (the two moons and/or sun-moon combo of the twins having sex)...and as @evita mgfs pointed out many moons ago, Bran is the 'fallen Star-k' of Winter-fell.  Suffice to say, fire was involved in Bran's initial forging step!  

Consequently, he fell screaming (like 'a song of swords'...when the Other's sword struck Ser Waymar's there was a faint 'screaming like an animal in pain', or 'anguished keening'...which to my mind evokes a 'widow's wail' and Nissa Nissa's cry of agony and ecstasy shattering and making the world at once), caught between the hammer of heaven and the anvil of the earth -- becoming the broken yet 'electrified' boy, tree and sword.  In his crippling, he not only embodies the sword of the Prologue, burnt, twisted and shattered like a tree struck by lightning, but also the Valyrian steel property of being folded back on itself ('Bran's legs bent in ways that made him sick') and spell-forged (represented by the 'electrical' component and ensuing prophetic third-eye dreaming).  There's also a wordplay involved which may appeal to you with 'rippled' and 'crippled'

Thereafter, he sank into a coma, which I conceptualise as drowning or being quenched in a watery bath (the Heart of Winter landscape even resembles the bottom of the sea as described by Davos following his own near-drowning episode at the Blackwater, the spears of the merling king waiting to impale reckless seafarers).  In Bran's so-called 'coma dream,' the forging continued with the 'three-eyed-crow' as smith hammering at his forehead to open his third eye, a sensation Bran described as 'burning.'  His emergence from the coma is akin to the drowned men (who wear the mottled green, grey, black, white and blue colors of the Others as @Little Scribe of Naath has noted, linking them to ice), the wights (who are mantled in ice and snow), or sword (Ice) for our purposes, 'rising harder and stronger.'  

Further re-forgings followed, with multiple descents and ascents (mirroring the sequential plunging and withdrawal of a sword undergoing various testing and curing processes).  Specifically, Bran and his companions went down into (and re-emerged from) the forge-like atmosphere of the Winterfell crypts, in which they were symbolically 'fired' when Ramsay burnt Winterfell; followed by Bran's descent into the cave of singers from which he is yet to emerge (also toasty warm and literally an extensive burial mound promoting paradoxical regeneration...forge as tomb and womb...love your play on 'Tobho Mott' as 'hot tomb') which includes the watery component of an underground sea as well as fire elements (e.g. Bloodraven's 'red eye burning like the last coal of a dead fire', the flaming leaves of the weirwood engulfing him, and Bran himself the quintessential Summer Child with a Summer wolf, the son/sun of Winter who is 'kissed by fire'...he has red Tully coloring with blue eyes and his wolf is 'silver and smoke with golden eyes like the sun', the former of which is often overlooked in the color scheme of things).

Even before Bran was set on this course, there was foreshadowing of his linkage to Ice, for example in that passage you've quoted where Ned cleanses Ice in the black pool beside the weirwood (the selfsame tree through which Bran 'speaks' to Ned and Theon, implying 'time-travelling' Bran could potentially taste and absorb the blood on the sword being cleansed in the black pool which connects to the weirwood roots...like Oathkeeper drinking the red color symbolising the blood from the 'waves of night and blood upon some steely shore'...'these old swords remember' is a bit like the greenseers/weirwoods serving as the archive of collective cultural memory...not sure how to fit in Oathkeeper 'drinking the sun' because my impression is that Bran is an inverted solar rather than lunar figure).  

Ned ritually cleans and strokes the sword while he and Catelyn mention Bran's name several times, saying how proud they are of him.  @Tijgy has remarked on the overt sexual allusion involved with Ned rhythmically stroking his 'greatsword' while Catelyn looks on admiringly!  In the trope of 'forging,' it's important to realise that the sword stands in symbolically for both phallus and baby, putting a coy spin I wouldn't put past GRRM on the phrase 'rising harder and stronger'...  Thus, Ice is a phallic symbol referring to himself (Ned), simultaneously with being a reference to the union of his and Catelyn's love whom they happen to be discussing at the time -- namely Bran!  Put crudely, the sword that penetrates is not the same sword that is delivered from the symbolic womb.  Big theme of GRRM's (double entendre totally unintentional ;)).  

On 9/21/2016 at 2:52 PM, Seams said:

When they are being forged, swords turn red and then black. …

I like this!  My intuition tells me that if we disentangle the color symbolism, we will understand the swords (particularly how Jon and Bran relate to each other, as possible inverses, although I have not figured it out quite yet; I think GRRM plans setting them on a tragic collision course)  

The red-black transformation reminds me that Jaime is definitely being forged as well, into a new sword(hand)...sans his right hand, he's another of my 'swords without a hilt' candidates...left left-handed, he's a potentially 'sinister' (Latin='left') figure!  Consider the following passage from the 'Whispering Wood, from the perspective of color and forging symbolism:

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A Game of Thrones - Catelyn X

Catelyn sat on her horse, unmoving, with Hal Mollen and her guard around her, and she waited as she had waited before, for Brandon and Ned and her father. She was high on the ridge, and the trees hid most of what was going on beneath her. A heartbeat, two, four, and suddenly it was as if she and her protectors were alone in the wood. The rest were melted away into the green

Could the weirwoods ('the whispering wood' hinting at the kingdom of greenseers) play an essential role in this symbolic sword forging?  They have also 'swallowed up' Bran -- mirroring the quenching aspect -- and 'melted him into the green' -- mirroring both quenching and smelting process (both sea, tree and fire can be green).  Are greenseers/the singers smiths (red wanderers and thieves)?  Perhaps, then, Bran is the moon maid, instead of a solar figure, stolen by them to be their instrument?

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Yet when she looked across the valley to the far ridge, she saw the Greatjon's riders emerge from the darkness beneath the trees. They were in a long line, an endless line, and as they burst from the wood there was an instant, the smallest part of a heartbeat, when all Catelyn saw was the moonlight on the points of their lances, as if a thousand willowisps were coming down the ridge, wreathed in silver flame.

Then she blinked, and they were only men, rushing down to kill or die.

The sword points are 'wreathed in silver flame' and there are a thousand of them evoking Bloodraven's 1000 eyes and the weirwoods/greenseers.  What's your interpretation of the 'silver' glow in the context of forging, specifically regarding the sequence in which the color changes occur (besides, as you've highlighted elsewhere, silver carrying dual symbolism of healing and harming, particularly apposite for swords -- and I would say greenseers).  This raises the question whether perhaps moonlight forging is different (or inverse) to sunlight/fire forging?  The difference between Lightbringer/the dragons drinking the fire of the sun (or moon if you consider Nissa Nissa a moon maiden) producing a radiant, heat-emitting 'fire-made-flesh' sword vs. the symbolic sword of the Night's King created when he mated with the lunar Other succubus who drank his seed, depleting all warmth, leaving a 'black hole' type sun...that would fit with Oathkeeper seeming to 'drink the sun,' despite all Tobho Mott's attempts to transform it into a glowing red sword.  Any ideas which is which respectively -- Bran or Jon?  Perhaps it's not a dichotomy, with the brothers taking on aspects of both roles?

In the whispering wood, Jaime is transformed by the moonlight, so that his golden hair becomes silver, and his red Lannister cloak becomes black.  Interestingly, he appears like a weirwood tree at night, which similarly changes from white to silver (limbs) and red to black (leaves).

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A Game of Thrones - Catelyn X

She nodded as the woods grew still around them. In the quiet she could hear them, far off yet moving closer; the tread of many horses, the rattle of swords and spears and armor, the murmur of human voices, with here a laugh, and there a curse.

Eons seemed to come and go. The sounds grew louder. She heard more laughter, a shouted command, splashing as they crossed and recrossed the little stream. A horse snorted. A man swore. And then at last she saw him … only for an instant, framed between the branches of the trees as she looked down at the valley floor, yet she knew it was him. Even at a distance, Ser Jaime Lannister was unmistakable. The moonlight had silvered his armor and the gold of his hair, and turned his crimson cloak to black. He was not wearing a helm.

He was there and he was gone again, his silvery armor obscured by the trees once more.

 

Note, Jaime is not wearing a helm, another indication, besides his missing hand later on, that he is another of my 'swords without a hilt.'  A 'helm' carries the equivocal meaning of on the one hand 'helmet /covering,' so one might say in 'sword-speak' that he has been unsheathed; and on the other hand meaning 'a tiller or wheel or any associated equipment for steering a ship or boat.'  And, now, for the piece de resistance, 'helm' is related to 'helve' meaning 'the handle of a weapon or tool'!  This foreshadows how there is no longer any handle with which to handle Jaime, as Cersei finds out (previously he was unquestioningly her tool).  Jaime is among the most mysterious characters for this reason. Whom will he ultimately serve?  Answering that question for himself, and the readers, will prove critical to the endgame.

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A Clash of Kings - Arya IX

Shoving her sword through her belt, she slipped down branch to branch until she was back on the ground. The light of the moon painted the limbs of the weirwood silvery white as she made her way toward it, but the five-pointed red leaves turned black by night. Arya stared at the face carved into its trunk. It was a terrible face, its mouth twisted, its eyes flaring and full of hate. Is that what a god looked like? Could gods be hurt, the same as people? I should pray, she thought suddenly.

Arya went to her knees. 

Here again, the red-to-black, white-to-silver color change.  I like your idea of kneeling, facilitating the 'annealing' process, which it certainly does for Arya in addition to Theon -- catalysed by the smiths of the wood:  the greenseers.  Remember I said that a sword can be both phallus and offspring, so Bran might operate, without contradiction, both as a smith (greenseer) and sword, respectively.  Being forged, he now takes up his tools to help others forging themselves anew, for the war to come.  

Swords like people reproduce themselves (e.g. Ice splitting into Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail).  And GRRM paints them almost having minds of their own.  For example, here Brienne is reminded by the disembodied whispering heads (alluding to the weirwood network) and/or the slender weirwood sapling (which might represent Bran specifically) to fetch the 'magic sword' which saves her life:

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A Feast for Crows - Brienne IV

"I'm a Crabb." He snatched the longsword from her hand. "I got the same blood as old Ser Clarence." He slashed the air and grinned at her. "It's the sword that makes the lord, some say."

When Podrick Payne returned, he held Oathkeeper as gingerly as if it were a child.

The sword is equated with the one wielding it.  Moreover, Oathkeeper is compared to a baby, Brienne's (symbolically conceived with Jaime).

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Nimble Dick gave a whistle at the sight of the ornate scabbard with its row of lion's heads, but grew quiet when she drew the blade and tried a cut. Even the sound of it is sharper than an ordinary sword. "With me," she told Crabb. She slipped sideways through the postern, ducking her head to pass beneath the doorway's arch.

The 'silvery speech' of swords.

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The bailey opened up before her, overgrown. To her left was the main gate, and the collapsed shell of what might have been a stable. Saplings were poking out of half the stalls and growing up through the dry brown thatch of its roof. To her right she saw rotted wooden steps descending into the darkness of a dungeon or a root cellar. Where the keep had been was a pile of collapsed stones, overgrown with green and purple moss. The yard was all weeds and pine needles. Soldier pines were everywhere, drawn up in solemn ranks. In their midst was a pale stranger; a slender young weirwood with a trunk as white as a cloistered maid. Dark red leaves sprouted from its reaching branches. Beyond was the emptiness of sky and sea where the wall had collapsed . . .

. and the remnants of a fire.

The whispers nibbled at her ears, insistent. Brienne knelt beside the fire. She picked up a blackened stick, sniffed at it, stirred the ashes. Someone was trying to keep warm last night. Or else they were trying to send a signal to a passing ship.

"Halloooooo," called Nimble Dick. "Anyone here?"

"Be quiet," Brienne told him.

"Someone might be hiding. Wanting to get a look at us before they show themself." He walked to where the steps went down beneath the ground, and peered down into the darkness. "Hallooooo," he called again. "Anyone down there?"

Brienne saw a sapling sway. From the bushes slid a man, so caked with dirt that he looked as if he had sprouted from the earth. A broken sword was in his hand, but it was his face that gave her pause, the small eyes and wide flat nostrils.

She knew that nose. She knew those eyes. Pyg, his friends had called him.

Everything seemed to happen in a heartbeat. A second man slipped over the lip of the well, making no more noise than a snake might make slithering across a pile of wet leaves. He wore an iron halfhelm wrapped in stained red silk, and had a short, thick throwing spear in hand. Brienne knew him too. From behind her came a rustling as a head poked down through the red leaves. Crabb was standing underneath the weirwood. He looked up and saw the face. "Here," he called to Brienne. "It's your fool."

"Dick," she called urgently, "to me."

Shagwell dropped from the weirwood, braying laughter. He was garbed in motley, but so faded and stained that it showed more brown than grey or pink. In place of a jester's flail he had a triple morningstar, three spiked balls chained to a wooden haft. He swung it hard and low, and one of Crabb's knees exploded in a spray of blood and bone. ...

...

Interesting how lots of assassins emerge from the weirwood (emblematic for weirwood as weapons depot or forge).  While the weirwood shelters them from view, ostensibly camouflaging them, simultaneously the weirwood gives away their positions, alerting Brienne to their presence by 'rustling' and 'swaying,' possibly hinting of some 'old gods' reinforcements supporting Brienne in the fight, although she is outnumbered by the actual number of human attackers.

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Oathkeeper bit through leather, wool, skin, and muscle, into the sellsword's thigh....

...He was better than Pyg, but he had only a short throwing spear, and she had a Valyrian steel blade. Oathkeeper was alive in her hands. She had never been so quick. The blade became a grey blur. He wounded her in the shoulder as she came at him, but she slashed off his ear and half his cheek, hacked the head off his spear, and put a foot of rippled steel into his belly through the links of the chainmail byrnie he was wearing.

Personified, Oathkeeper is 'alive in her hands' almost directing her instead of vice versa.  It bites into the sellsword's thigh and puts its foot into his belly.

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Timeon was still trying to fight as she pulled her blade from him, its fullers running red with blood. He clawed at his belt and came up with a dagger, so Brienne cut his hand off. That one was for Jaime. "Mother have mercy," the Dornishman gasped, the blood bubbling from his mouth and spurting from his wrist. "Finish it. Send me back to Dorne, you bloody bitch."

She did.

I love GRRM's little joke here.  The Dornishman, whose symbolically tasted Brienne's 'Dornishman's wife' (in an ironic twist to their grotesque plans for gang-raping her which they expressed in a preface to the fight) -- 'bread knife,' 'fork and knife' and 'trouble and strife' all being cockney rhyming slang for 'wife' -- begs to be sent back to 'Dorne' (bit like 'doom').

Brienne, the Maid of Tarth, together with her sword Oathkeeper is the epitomy of the personified sword of legend, 'the Just Maid,' which considering your speculation that the ''real' name of the original sword Ice was 'just ice=Justice' is fitting (also thinking of GRRM's little 'throwaway' joke that the swords of the Others are not like 'regular old [read: just] ice).

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A Feast for Crows - Brienne IV

"Ser Gallawho of What?" He snorted. "Never heard o' him. Why was he so bloody perfect?"

"Ser Galladon was a champion of such valor that the Maiden herself lost her heart to him. She gave him an enchanted sword as a token of her love. The Just Maid, it was called. No common sword could check her, nor any shield withstand her kiss. Ser Galladon bore the Just Maid proudly, but only thrice did he unsheathe her. He would not use the Maid against a mortal man, for she was so potent as to make any fight unfair."

Crabb thought that was hilarious. "The Perfect Knight? The Perfect Fool, he sounds like. What's the point o' having some magic sword if you don't bloody well use it?"

I like GRRM's gender inversion game here.  Swords are traditionally phallic symbols, but here he turns it around.  It's also a retelling of the quirky subtextual romance going on between Brienne and Jaime.  Jaime gave Oathkeeper to Brienne (symbolically knighting her) as a token of his...(well, that remains debatable), following his recognition of her valor and honor and steadfast character (well, he'd call it her 'stubborn wenchness,' not wanting to appear sappy).

Returning to the phallic imagery, for now though, I must acknowledge your brilliant observation surrounding the personification of swords, demonstrating the core Oedipal conflict between father and son:

On 9/21/2016 at 2:41 PM, Seams said:

Does a sword fear being used to kill? Even if it is being used by a father figure? The author likes to use ambiguous wording to convey two layers of meaning at once. The phrase, “one day he might need to put me to death,” conveys the possibility that Theon would be killed (like Gared in the opening Bran chapter) but might also mean that Theon would be put to use to cause death. Also note that Ned is “never warm” to Theon: it does seem logical that one would not want to be warm to a person or thing made of Ice, or to an inanimate object.

There is a lot of symbolism around shadows in the books, and Theon’s references to the sword include that it is “dark” and that it is (or has) a “long steel shadow”. Perhaps Theon is not the sword Ice per se, but the sword is Theon’s shadow?

 

Freud identified the oedipal complex as a stage in the development of the psyche, during which a boy would fantasize about usurping his father's place (by symbolically castrating him) and taking that place at his mother's side.  The paternal figure, therefore, no matter how loving or attentive, always overshadows the son, presenting a challenge he's required to overcome in order to assert his autonomy (in psychological terms this is called 'individuation'...or more in-narrative 'kill the boy and let the man be born' requires symbolically killing the overshadowing father figure, whomever that may represent for the protagonist).  

Viewed through this lens, I like your idea of characterizing the conflict in terms of a shadow persona, with which the protagonist identifies and desires to emulate on some level, embracing the shadow identity; at the same time as this shadow both threatens the integrity of the self and reciprocally invites retaliation, leading the protagonist to reject the shadow identity.  Introducing the element of biological (nature) vs non-biological (nurture) paternal figures (the latter would include step fathers, foster fathers, teachers, mentors, kings and other authority figures...think of the 'Father'-archetype 'judging right from wrong' in the 'song of the seven') adds an additional layer of complexity to the drama, as a peek into the 'Sturm und Drang' in any A+J=T or A+J=J+-C thread will attest.   

As an illustration of this dynamic, we may identify Theon's desire to be a Stark and possess Stark things, leading him ultimately to return 'home' to Winterfell (from his alienated other 'home' in the Iron Isles) to overthrow the castle and sacrifice the miller's boys, symbolically seeking to dispossess the Stark heirs in his favor, Bran in particular being the legitimate Lord of Winterfell at that point and representative of the Father/Ice/the Shadow archetype from Theon's perspective (I agree with your point that as the current head, though unofficial, of House Stark, Bran is the new father-figure and guardian of Ice).  In fact, he always was what I call the 'genius loci' of Winterfell, given the foreshadowing in AGOT that even when Robb was still alive, Bran was 'Lord of the Castle in a way even Robb would never know'-- he has an uncanny grasp of the ins-and-outs of the architectural layout and its secrets, almost as if he had constructed Winterfell himself .  

Not coincidentally many of Theon's 'generically'-entitled chapters may be read as 'shadow chapters' for a hidden POV, namely Bran's.  So, 'Prince of Winterfell,' 'The Turncloak' and 'A Ghost of Winterfell' may all refer to Bran as well as Theon...Regarding 'turncloak,' though on the surface counter-intuitive, this may refer to Bran donning the cloaks and harnessing the powers by proxy of wood, wind, wolf and winter against the invaders of the castle, which turns on/against the Boltons and their allies, the new and unwelcome occupants (a bit like Jon's recognition that 'the wall defends itself'...don't mess with the interwoven structures of Bran the Builder!)  As we've discussed on the 'Bran's growing powers re-read thread' @Wizz-The-Smith first identified the trio of Stark 'weapons' as tree, wind and wolf commonly occurring together in the narrative like a fingerprint for Bran's/the 'old gods'' presence. 

 Let's turn to Jaime (my eternally favorite example of the oedipal complex).  Jaime, like Ser Barristan Selmy, is a sword who smarts under the 'fear of being used to kill,' particularly in relation to upholding ones oath to someone as vicious and irrational as Aerys, Tywin, or Cersei (all of whom represent father figures to him, although with Cersei it's more complicated because she's a twin mirror-image of himself, mother, sister and lover on top of her macho posturing as self-assumed and unofficial Head of House Lannister, really dysfunctional stuff!).  Conversely, the 'fear of not being able to kill' is equally pressing.  Barristan, for example, relates the excruciating anguish of having to 'turn a blind eye' to Aerys' sadistic activities to which he was privy by sacred oath, without being able to react to protect the real victims, retrospectively musing regretfully on the ironies attendant with remaining a 'loyal sword' to the bitter end:

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A Dance with Dragons - The Queensguard

Barristan Selmy had known many kings. He had been born during the troubled reign of Aegon the Unlikely, beloved by the common folk, had received his knighthood at his hands. Aegon's son Jaehaerys had bestowed the white cloak on him when he was three-and-twenty, after he slew Maelys the Monstrous during the War of the Ninepenny Kings. In that same cloak he had stood beside the Iron Throne as madness consumed Jaehaerys's son Aerys. Stood, and saw, and heard, and yet did nothing.

But no. That was not fair. He did his duty. Some nights, Ser Barristan wondered if he had not done that duty too well. He had sworn his vows before the eyes of gods and men, he could not in honor go against them … but the keeping of those vows had grown hard in the last years of King Aerys's reign. He had seen things that it pained him to recall, and more than once he wondered how much of the blood was on his own hands. If he had not gone into Duskendale to rescue Aerys from Lord Darklyn's dungeons, the king might well have died there as Tywin Lannister sacked the town. Then Prince Rhaegar would have ascended the Iron Throne, mayhaps to heal the realm. Duskendale had been his finest hour, yet the memory tasted bitter on his tongue.

Similarly, Jaime resented the indignity of not being valued as sword, except in the capacity of being objectified as a useful 'piece' (note a 'piece' can refer to a weapon as well as a marker in a game) in the snide, no-holds-barred war of attack and counter-attack between the arch-nemeses Tywin and Aerys jockeying for the position of 'alpha-' male in the paternal hierarchy.  Consequently, Jaime found himself in the position he always does, between two parties vying for his 'hand' (in this way, claiming a sword, or being claimed by one, is a bit like a marriage pact-- let's not forget in this respect that Jaime was knighted by Dawn at dawn by the Sword of the Morning, and it cut him while he was kneeling before the dual swords of that name, anointing the actual sword with his blood marking his initiation into the Kingsguard, symbolically reminiscent of a maiden's maidenhood blood sealing the rite of passage on her wedding night). 

When Jaime tossed Bran out that fateful window, he was also the party stationed at the time between Cersei and Bran, caught between extending a helping hand to Bran and betraying that hand by using it to catapult him out the window. With respect to Aerys and Tywin, Jaime was forced to play 'ward' (a bit like Theon caught in the tug-of-war between Ned and Balon, but with a crueler master) as Aerys's 'insurance policy' against Tywin.  This backfired on Aerys, when Jaime, predominantly acting out of fear I believe to have to kill his father (when Aerys finally demanded his head) rather than the reason he gives Brienne of desiring to play the Kings Landing hero, took matters into his own (well, Tywin's) hand.  

In summary, Jaime has yet to reclaim his hand for himself.  But losing it was a step in the right direction, as far as re-forging is concerned.

P.S.  (how do you think 'golden hands' figure into the red-black, white-silver scheme, by the way?...oh, and there's always 'green hands' to consider... Garth Greenhand and the cadre of greenseers represented by the waving, rustling, disembodied, blood- and flame- red hands of the weirwoods...)

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  • Of course, there’s also the castration symbolism after Ramsay turns Theon into Reek. Is Theon still Ice after he loses his “sword”?
  • Is Theon still Ice after Ice becomes Oathkeeper and Widow’s Wail? Are we supposed to compare the splitting of Ice into two new swords to the torture that turns Theon into Reek?
  • Theon is closely attached to a dagger after Ramsay has maimed him. I have observed a link between daggers and deserters (who are often “ragged”), so maybe the dagger is an appropriate weapon of choice for Theon Turncloak.
  • Ice is Ned’s sword and the sword of House Stark. Theon is Ned’s ward. When Ned dies, does Theon become someone else’s sword?
  • Are there other characters who personify weapons? If so, how does that enrich or undermine this Theon theory?

All great questions.  I will finish reading properly and respond later, focusing on Theon.  Just wanted to give you my initial response.  Love the thread!

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I also love this thread and want to spend some more time on it.  Oddly enough I was just posting on a Jaime/Dawn thread where the symbolism of a sword is playing a prominent role and @ravenous reader kindly directed me here.

The importance of being "born" or "birth" and Theon's role in it is fascinating.  The concept of birth also makes me think of "Dawn" as birth is the start of life the same way Dawn is the start of the Day.  

But returning to Theon and the sword Ice, if I am recalling my history correctly, the Ice we are introduced to is the "second Ice" not the original Ice.  This is similar to how Ned Stark is Theon's "second father."

I certainly think we need some @LmL action on these threads.  I was listening to his podcast with History of Westeros on House Dayne and highly recommend it for this type of analysis.

But one thing LmL and Aziz discussed there which I tend to agree with is that blood sacrifice is required to make Valyrian steel. This is hinted at in the World Book when it notes that the Qohorik Smiths may have been engaging in blood sacrifices to try and re-create Valyrian Steel. LmL and Aziz then go on to compare all the similarities between Dawn and Valyrian Steel, both are stronger than any other sword and both hold an edge better.  LmL and Aziz make the suggestion that the difference between Dawn and Valyrian steel might be whether the blood in the sacrifice was willingly given.

Recall that in the Forging of Lightbringer tale, Nissa Nissa voluntarily sacrifices herself so that the sword can be forged.  

Given that it appears that Theon could be headed to being a sacrifice himself, I wonder if he could be involved in the forging of a new lightbringer? 

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Thanks to all who have commented. Writing this long thing was something I felt compelled to do, but I feared it would be yet another of my posts that sinks to the bottom of the forum without comment, like a son of Davos Seaworth.

ravenous reader, I will use blue text to differentiate my comments from your good insights:

On 9/22/2016 at 4:18 PM, ravenous reader said:

...we are obviously invited by the author to take a look at the wider symbolism of swords, and to hunt for further personified swords and people metaphorically represented as swords.

Yes, GRRM makes it pretty clear that "sword" is a central and essential metaphor. Terms like "sellsword" and the title The Sworn Sword are pretty clear hints about the need to examine the human / weapon interplay, in addition to the thousands of less direct hints we have picked apart in posts and comments.

Theon is not giving birth to Ice so much as functioning as midwife... pulling Ice ...from its sheath (the vaginal analog) -- although I could see how you might conceivably make a case for Theon being the 'mother' bringing forth the child and/or 'newborn' being brought forth too. 

In this capacity of 'midwife,' I'm reminded of sweetsunray's concept of 'psychopomp' a spirit guide mediating passage for the dead to the after-life ...a psychopomp not only functions at death, but in some cultures also has a role to play mediating the spiritual passage at birth, functioning as a midwife, 'doula', or shaman (often castratees themselves)...

I love this! This is very fitting. I think it may tie in to Theon's role in the death of the miller's boys, too. Ramsay is the son of a miller's wife, and I've wondered what it means that it is Ramsay's idea to kill the miller's boys at Winterfell, but to represent the dead boys as Starks and to let Theon take the credit / blame for the deaths. So Theon could be the psychopomp for Ramsay as well as Bran.

I don't recall a literal midwife character in the books, but we do have wet nurses. I wonder how Theon's role as a midwife connects him to Old Nan, who I consider to be one of the most intriguing and mysterious characters in the books? Now that I think of it, maybe Davos is also a symbolic midwife, as he must "deliver" Melisandre to Storm's End so she can give birth to her shadow baby inside the magical walls. Lots to ponder here.

Perhaps the concepts of serving as Bran's raven and his sword can be combined. 

I think of ravens as part of "Team Fool," the group of wise but cryptic characters whose insights are not recognized by the highborn people who hang out with them. Others in this group (besides the literal fools such as Patchface, Butterbumps, Moonboy, Jinglebell / Aegon) are the direwolf Ghost, Dolorous Edd and Hodor. Ramsay turns Theon into Reek, and I would say that Reek definitely falls into the fool category. So another nice catch for rr! Interesting idea of a raven/sword and/or fool/sword.

Bran, like Ice, has undergone several symbolic breakings, re-forgings, temperings, annealings, quenchings, etc.

There's also a wordplay involved which may appeal to you with 'rippled' and 'crippled'

I love it!

Ned ritually cleans and strokes the sword while he and Catelyn mention Bran's name several times, saying how proud they are of him.  Tijgy has remarked on the overt sexual allusion involved with Ned rhythmically stroking his 'greatsword' while Catelyn looks on admiringly!  In the trope of 'forging,' it's important to realise that the sword stands in symbolically for both phallus and baby, putting a coy spin I wouldn't put past GRRM on the phrase 'rising harder and stronger'...  Thus, Ice is a phallic symbol referring to himself (Ned), simultaneously with being a reference to the union of his and Catelyn's love whom they happen to be discussing at the time -- namely Bran!

Give this passage another close reading. Ned discusses Bran in the context of the necessity to kill a deserter but says Catelyn would be proud of Bran. I really think Ned has a symbolic creepy role that people have not recognized, and this scene has a subtext that tells me Ned wants to kill his children - or that he already has. Catelyn's previous utterance was about her pride in Bran and Ned answers with, "He was the fourth this year." Of course, we know that Ned is speaking of Gared being the fourth deserter from the Night's Watch this year, but good old GRRM is using that ambiguous way of writing that makes it sound as if Ned has beheaded his fourth child.

Between the two spoken lines of dialogue, though, Catelyn is acknowledging the beauty of Ned's sword. Key words in these paragraphs: swatch (=watch), lightly, dark glow, watching, rippling, folded, Ice, Valyria, "the name it bore . . . was from the age of heroes." A lot of these words would allude to Jon Snow, I think, with some possible Dawn or Darkstar references. I will give you rippling and folded as Bran references, along with the name from the Age of Heroes. It sounds as if the sword contains aspects of Jon, Dawn (which is a pun on the German word "Wand," meaning wall) and Bran - perhaps the point being that Ned is on team Jon and Catelyn is on team Bran. The qualities of each child are currently united within the sword. The dialogue concludes with: "Ned lifted Ice, looked down the cool steel length of it. 'And it will only grow worse. The day may come when I will have no choice but to call the banners and ride north to deal with this King-beyond-the-Wall for good and all.'" A bit of foreshadowing here? Which young Stark will become the King-beyond-the-Wall who must be killed by the Lord of Winterfell? Or wait a minute - "beyond" the Wall depends on your perspective - if you're south of the Wall, "beyond" would be north. If you're north of the Wall, however ...

My intuition tells me that if we disentangle the color symbolism, we will understand the swords (particularly how Jon and Bran relate to each other, as possible inverses, although I have not figured it out quite yet; I think GRRM plans setting them on a tragic collision course)  

I agree with the tragic collision course for Jon and Bran (see above). After some initial thoughts long ago, and a few pun-related guesses, I have given up trying to decipher the meaning of colors. It's just too complicated for my overcrowded brain. I have no doubt there is an underlying logic to the colors, though, or several patterns that apply to different situations.

Could the weirwoods ('the whispering wood' hinting at the kingdom of greenseers) play an essential role in this symbolic sword forging?

I think so. Aside from the pools often found nearby, weirwoods are closely associated with blood (red leaves, blood sacrifice). Blood seems to be a necessary ingredient for these swords or for the rebirth of swords.

The sword points are 'wreathed in silver flame' and there are a thousand of them evoking Bloodraven's 1000 eyes and the weirwoods/greenseers.  What's your interpretation of the 'silver' glow in the context of forging, specifically regarding the sequence in which the color changes occur (besides, as you've highlighted elsewhere, silver carrying dual symbolism of healing and harming, particularly apposite for swords -- and I would say greenseers).  This raises the question whether perhaps moonlight forging is different (or inverse) to sunlight/fire forging?  ... Any ideas which is which respectively -- Bran or Jon?  Perhaps it's not a dichotomy, with the brothers taking on aspects of both roles?

I like the idea of different types of outcomes for forging by day or by night. Aside from the silver maester's link reflecting both healing and killing, I don't have a theory for the color silver. The coins called Stags are silver, of course. I didn't include "casting" in my exploration of metallurgy vocabulary words. Maybe silver has to do with the complete meltdown of steel to a liquid form. There could also be something going on with the idea of white blood cells and red blood cells, which would take us to the fascinating miasma theory that can be found in a blog outside this forum.

In the whispering wood, Jaime is transformed by the moonlight, so that his golden hair becomes silver, and his red Lannister cloak becomes black.  Interestingly, he appears like a weirwood tree at night, which similarly changes from white to silver (limbs) and red to black (leaves).

Note, Jaime is not wearing a helm, another indication, besides his missing hand later on, that he is another of my 'swords without a hilt.'  A 'helm' carries the equivocal meaning of on the one hand 'helmet /covering,' so one might say in 'sword-speak' that he has been unsheathed; and on the other hand meaning 'a tiller or wheel or any associated equipment for steering a ship or boat.'  And, now, for the piece de resistance, 'helm' is related to 'helve' meaning 'the handle of a weapon or tool'!  This foreshadows how there is no longer any handle with which to handle Jaime, as Cersei finds out (previously he was unquestioningly her tool).  Jaime is among the most mysterious characters for this reason. Whom will he ultimately serve?  Answering that question for himself, and the readers, will prove critical to the endgame.

I have come to interpret Joffrey as a very misguided, warped, "mini me" version of Jaime. The idea that Joffrey really did send the catspaw with the Valyrian steel dagger would fit with the ideas you describe. Catelyn saved Bran by grabbing the blade with her bare hands - very fitting for the "no handle" weapon that Jaime will become. I agree that there is a big role in store for Jaime and it will be fun to see which direction he takes. 

Brienne, the Maid of Tarth, together with her sword Oathkeeper is the epitomy of the personified sword of legend, 'the Just Maid,' which considering your speculation that the ''real' name of the original sword Ice was 'just ice=Justice' is fitting (also thinking of GRRM's little 'throwaway' joke that the swords of the Others are not like 'regular old [read: just] ice).

Brienne is so interesting as a character loyal to the Starks (or Catelyn, at least), Renly Baratheon and Jaime. She has to give up a sword Renly gave her, uses a blunt-edge practice sword in the bear pit, but acquires an alloyed Stark/Lannister sword to take on her quest. As you probably know, @Curled Finger is determined to find twelve Valyrian steel swords that might help to identify twelve friends of the Last Hero. This exercise makes me curious to identify nine "swords" that will have special association with the North and will match up with the nine greatswords (and/or nine warriors) arranged as spikes on the crown of the Kings of Winter. I'm thinking Brienne might be one of them, given the sword she carries.

Freud identified the oedipal complex ...The paternal figure ... no matter how loving or attentive, always overshadows the son, presenting a challenge he's required to overcome in order to assert his autonomy ... I like your idea of characterizing the conflict in terms of a shadow persona, with which the protagonist identifies and desires to emulate on some level, embracing the shadow identity; at the same time as this shadow both threatens the integrity of the self and reciprocally invites retaliation, leading the protagonist to reject the shadow identity. ...

As an illustration of this dynamic, we may identify Theon's desire to be a Stark and possess Stark things,... Winterfell ... the miller's boys, symbolically seeking to dispossess the Stark heirs in his favor, Bran in particular being the legitimate Lord of Winterfell at that point ...  Not coincidentally many of Theon's 'generically'-entitled chapters may be read as 'shadow chapters' for a hidden POV, namely Bran's.  So, 'Prince of Winterfell,' 'The Turncloak' and 'A Ghost of Winterfell' may all refer to Bran as well as Theon...

These chapters may also refer to Ramsay Snow. Is there already a thread that compares Roose and Ramsay to Ned and Jon? Most of us probably think of Jon Snow as the good bastard and Ramsay Snow as the bad bastard, but I'm sure GRRM has more complex motives for giving them the same surname. In keeping with the sword focus, Ramsay carries a sword that is compared to a cleaver, and his father says he hacks like a butcher in battle. So he is part of the butcher king motif, if that's relevant. I hope GRRM takes his time with that next book so we can finish sorting out all this symbolism we haven't had time yet to decipher. ;-)

...Jaime, like Ser Barristan Selmy, is a sword who smarts under the 'fear of being used to kill,' particularly in relation to upholding ones oath to someone as vicious and irrational as Aerys, Tywin, or Cersei ... In summary, Jaime has yet to reclaim his hand for himself.  But losing it was a step in the right direction, as far as re-forging is concerned.

I agree. It is important that Jaime designed his own replacement hand. It is also fascinating that he is training with Mr. Death, Ser Ilyn Payne, as he learns to use a sword with his sinister hand.

P.S.  (how do you think 'golden hands' figure into the red-black, white-silver scheme, by the way?...oh, and there's always 'green hands' to consider... Garth Greenhand and the cadre of greenseers represented by the waving, rustling, disembodied, blood- and flame- red hands of the weirwoods...)

So many hands! If I figure out Lommy Greenhands, who dies leaning up against a tree in the woods because he is unable to walk, I will let you know.

Whew! I will try to respond to other posts after I stand up and walk around awhile to get some blood flowing in my legs again. (<-- Yet another Lommy and Bran allusion.)

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On 9/23/2016 at 1:21 PM, Lord Martin said:

... if I am recalling my history correctly, the Ice we are introduced to is the "second Ice" not the original Ice.  This is similar to how Ned Stark is Theon's "second father."

... blood sacrifice is required to make Valyrian steel. This is hinted at in the World Book when it notes that the Qohorik Smiths may have been engaging in blood sacrifices to try and re-create Valyrian Steel. LmL and Aziz then go on to compare all the similarities between Dawn and Valyrian Steel, both are stronger than any other sword and both hold an edge better.  LmL and Aziz make the suggestion that the difference between Dawn and Valyrian steel might be whether the blood in the sacrifice was willingly given.

Recall that in the Forging of Lightbringer tale, Nissa Nissa voluntarily sacrifices herself so that the sword can be forged.  

Given that it appears that Theon could be headed to being a sacrifice himself, I wonder if he could be involved in the forging of a new lightbringer? 

I am curious about the whereabouts of the first sword Ice, too. It would not surprise me if it were found before the end of the series, given the destruction of the more recent Ice.

I hadn't thought about linking the "second father" and the second sword Ice. Interesting. I did a search on "second father" a few weeks ago and found that Eddard used this phrase in reference to Jon Arryn, and Quentyn Martell used it about his Yronwood foster father. I don't know whether that's significant or not.

The first and second Ice swords seem more like children, though, than fathers (based on the stuff I outlined in the OP). But maybe you're right - the sword is associated with administering The King's Justice, and The Father of the Seven Gods is associated with dispensing justice.

The blood sacrifice does seem essential - I mentioned the mothers dying in childbirth, but maybe there is an ongoing need for blood to keep the sword vibrant. When Tobho Mott creates Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail, the swords are described as alternating waves of night and blood, I think. In addition to the first-ever Stark / Lannister alloy, I wonder whether that built-in blood will make the swords more magical? They won't have to be "recharged" with blood, maybe.

The tales are all passed down over the centuries, so I'm not sure how much I'd bank on Nissa Nissa being a willing participant in the quenching of Lightbringer. Westeros people assume that a wife can't be raped if she's married to the man who rapes her, so the degree of willingness of Nissa Nissa may have changed in the retelling.

I'll have to go back and re-read the Winds chapter to which you allude. There are so many deaths and symbolic deaths that it's difficult to predict with any certainty which ones reflect important reenactments of the myths or prophecies. It does seem as if Dawn and Lightbringer might be connected to the northern characters, but I'm not sure I could make an educated guess at this point.

On 9/23/2016 at 1:32 PM, StarkofWinterfell said:

So how would you explain the wards of other Houses? Would they also be swords for those?

This is an excellent question.

I've tried to sort out whether Big Walder and Little Walder are Catelyn's "swords" : they are always referred to as her wards. At first I thought that they would match up with Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail, but that just doesn't feel right to me, the more I look for clues. The death of Little Walder doesn't seem to fit the metaphor, for one thing. (I know I discussed "sword death" briefly in part of the OP, but it seems as if it would have to be more dramatic than simply being stabbed to death and left in a snow bank.) If Little Walder were one of the swords Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail, which one would he be? Widow's Wail seems to have disappeared down in King's Landing, so maybe it is waiting to be "reborn" in the story. Maybe that does match up with the death of Little Walder. After all, we know there are plenty of replacement Walders at the Twins who could represent a symbolic "rebirth" of this character in the story. But then Big Walder would have to be Oathkeeper, and that just seems impossible. (Maybe iron swords are given ironic names? Ha ha ha.) It's possible that the Walders don't yet qualify as "swords" because they are still virgins? We've discussed the necessity of a blood sacrifice and the Brandon Stark "blood on his sword" metaphor through Lady Dustin's memories of their affair.

I'm also trying to imagine how Harry the Heir would fit into the "wards" and "swords" wordplay. We don't know too much about him, except that he is the ward of Lady Waynwood. There is some very fun theorizing about Bruce Wayne and his youthful ward, Dick Grayson, that might help sort out some of the ward symbolism connected to Harry. (Or maybe that just complicates the matter.)

As I mentioned, I think there is also wordplay involving stewards and, possibly, wardens that is part of the same pun involving wards and swords. That would give us more examples: Jon Snow is Jeor Mormont's steward, and he receives Mormont's sword. Sam Tarly is also a steward for the Night's Watch, and he ends up being The Slayer who successfully defends against a White Walker.

Can you think of other examples? I would love help exploring whether the wards / swords pun works for other wards beyond Theon.

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52 minutes ago, Seams said:

 

This is an excellent question.

I've tried to sort out whether Big Walder and Little Walder are Catelyn's "swords" : they are always referred to as her wards. At first I thought that they would match up with Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail, but that just doesn't feel right to me, the more I look for clues. The death of Little Walder doesn't seem to fit the metaphor, for one thing. (I know I discussed "sword death" briefly in part of the OP, but it seems as if it would have to be more dramatic than simply being stabbed to death and left in a snow bank.) If Little Walder were one of the swords Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail, which one would he be? Widow's Wail seems to have disappeared down in King's Landing, so maybe it is waiting to be "reborn" in the story. Maybe that does match up with the death of Little Walder. After all, we know there are plenty of replacement Walders at the Twins who could represent a symbolic "rebirth" of this character in the story. But then Big Walder would have to be Oathkeeper, and that just seems impossible. (Maybe iron swords are given ironic names? Ha ha ha.) It's possible that the Walders don't yet qualify as "swords" because they are still virgins? We've discussed the necessity of a blood sacrifice and the Brandon Stark "blood on his sword" metaphor through Lady Dustin's memories of their affair.

I'm also trying to imagine how Harry the Heir would fit into the "wards" and "swords" wordplay. We don't know too much about him, except that he is the ward of Lady Waynwood. There is some very fun theorizing about Bruce Wayne and his youthful ward, Dick Grayson, that might help sort out some of the ward symbolism connected to Harry. (Or maybe that just complicates the matter.)

As I mentioned, I think there is also wordplay involving stewards and, possibly, wardens that is part of the same pun involving wards and swords. That would give us more examples: Jon Snow is Jeor Mormont's steward, and he receives Mormont's sword. Sam Tarly is also a steward for the Night's Watch, and he ends up being The Slayer who successfully defends against a White Walker.

Can you think of other examples? I would love help exploring whether the wards / swords pun works for other wards beyond Theon.

Interesting about Big Walder and Little Walder. As for other examples, I think maybe Ned and Robert being wards for Jon Arryn. Wasn't it Jon Arryn who declared war and rallied his banners and Ned and Robert who followed? This was when Aerys demanded that Jon send him the heads of his wards. Instead his two wards were instrumental in the rebellion and acted as commanders in the army. 

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23 hours ago, StarkofWinterfell said:

Interesting about Big Walder and Little Walder. As for other examples, I think maybe Ned and Robert being wards for Jon Arryn. Wasn't it Jon Arryn who declared war and rallied his banners and Ned and Robert who followed? This was when Aerys demanded that Jon send him the heads of his wards. Instead his two wards were instrumental in the rebellion and acted as commanders in the army. 

Another interesting idea. Jon Arryn really intrigues me. It does seem as if he could have justified taking the Iron Throne. Maybe he preferred to be a power-behind-the-throne kind of guy, like Tywin. But thinking of Ned and Robert as his two "swords" might help to explain why he was satisfied to become Hand of the King instead of king in his own right.

When Arryn became Hand of the King, Lysa had a special longsword made for him, with wings and a falcon pommel to represent the Arryn sigil. Someone in the forum clued me in that the falcon is strongly associated with Osiris, ancient Egyptian god of the Underworld. His son, Horus, succeeds him as king of the upperworld. If this symbolism is correct, the myth would be a good sign that Sweetrobin might survive and become strong. Maybe the sword/ward pun is a two-way street: being good to his wards and guiding them wisely put Arryn in a position to get a new sword and, finally, the son and heir that he had hoped for.

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On 9/24/2016 at 4:48 PM, Seams said:

I am curious about the whereabouts of the first sword Ice, too. It would not surprise me if it were found before the end of the series, given the destruction of the more recent Ice.

-Snip-

The first and second Ice swords seem more like children, though, than fathers (based on the stuff I outlined in the OP). But maybe you're right - the sword is associated with administering The King's Justice, and The Father of the Seven Gods is associated with dispensing justice.

-snip-

This is an excellent question.

I've tried to sort out whether Big Walder and Little Walder are Catelyn's "swords" : they are always referred to as her wards. At first I thought that they would match up with Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail, but that just doesn't feel right to me, the more I look for clues. The death of Little Walder doesn't seem to fit the metaphor, for one thing. (I know I discussed "sword death" briefly in part of the OP, but it seems as if it would have to be more dramatic than simply being stabbed to death and left in a snow bank.) If Little Walder were one of the swords Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail, which one would he be? Widow's Wail seems to have disappeared down in King's Landing, so maybe it is waiting to be "reborn" in the story. Maybe that does match up with the death of Little Walder. After all, we know there are plenty of replacement Walders at the Twins who could represent a symbolic "rebirth" of this character in the story. But then Big Walder would have to be Oathkeeper, and that just seems impossible. (Maybe iron swords are given ironic names? Ha ha ha.) It's possible that the Walders don't yet qualify as "swords" because they are still virgins? We've discussed the necessity of a blood sacrifice and the Brandon Stark "blood on his sword" metaphor through Lady Dustin's memories of their affair.

I'm also trying to imagine how Harry the Heir would fit into the "wards" and "swords" wordplay. We don't know too much about him, except that he is the ward of Lady Waynwood. There is some very fun theorizing about Bruce Wayne and his youthful ward, Dick Grayson, that might help sort out some of the ward symbolism connected to Harry. (Or maybe that just complicates the matter.)

As I mentioned, I think there is also wordplay involving stewards and, possibly, wardens that is part of the same pun involving wards and swords. That would give us more examples: Jon Snow is Jeor Mormont's steward, and he receives Mormont's sword. Sam Tarly is also a steward for the Night's Watch, and he ends up being The Slayer who successfully defends against a White Walker.

Can you think of other examples? I would love help exploring whether the wards / swords pun works for other wards beyond Theon.

I think that the Swords can be both children and fathers, afterall, some children grow up to be fathers themselves.  Ned was Jon Arryns ward who then had his own ward and children.  

As for the Walders, they were called Catelyn Stark's wards, but I think one could make the claim that they were really Ramsay's wards.  The Walders travel to Winterfell, but never w/ Catelyn Stark.  If anything they were Wards of Winterfell or perhaps Bran for a time.  But then Ramsay claims Winterfell by right of conquest.  Remember one of the last things Theon hears is "Save me the Freys."  So Ramsay claims the two boys as part of his conquest.

Fast forward to Dance and the two boys are peering in on Theon and acting as Ramsay's wards at the Dreadfort.  I don't know how that exactly connects with swords.  We are first introduced to Ramsay through his involvement w/ the Widow of the Hornwood... is this a nod to "Widow's Wail?"  The Oathkeeper connection seems more tenuous to me, but it could be an inversion.  Kinslaying (Big W killing Little W) and breaking of guest right (most Freys) seems to be the Frey way.

As a slight aside, I liked the suggestion that Widows Wail might be with Little Finger, that it was shipped to him hidden inside Robert's Tapestries.  

Speak of Little Finger, he is a ward with some of this imagery in it.  It was Little Finger's "little finger" that got him in trouble w/ Lord Hoster. He impregnated Lysa Tully which was then aborted by Hoster.  LF's weapon of choice is a dagger which is a "little" sword in some senses.  I am sure there is a ton more to work with there.

 

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This seems super well researched, but I have 2 questions for you.   First, you say that when Theon gave Ice to Ned that it was as if he birthed it, and I really don't see that, can you explain?  I get there was blood and a head but that doesn't necessarily symbolize birthing?  He simply gave ned the sword.

 

Second, What would the point be? Why would GRRM write it this way?  It doesn't seem to affect anything

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15 hours ago, spauldo17 said:

This seems super well researched, but I have 2 questions for you.   First, you say that when Theon gave Ice to Ned that it was as if he birthed it, and I really don't see that, can you explain?  I get there was blood and a head but that doesn't necessarily symbolize birthing?  He simply gave ned the sword.

 

Second, What would the point be? Why would GRRM write it this way?  It doesn't seem to affect anything

The exact wording used is 'Theon brought forth the sword.'  One meaning of 'brought forth' is to physically carry an item.  Another might be to 'physically carry and give birth to' a child -- 'bring a child into the world.'  

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Bran I

They forced his head down onto the hard black wood. Lord Eddard Stark dismounted and his ward Theon Greyjoy brought forth the sword. "Ice," that sword was called. It was as wide across as a man's hand, and taller even than Robb. The blade was Valyrian steel, spell-forged and dark as smoke. Nothing held an edge like Valyrian steel.

 

A Game of Thrones - Catelyn X

Brandon Stark had bid her wait as well. "I shall not be long, my lady," he had vowed. "We will be wed on my return." Yet when the day came at last, it was his brother Eddard who stood beside her in the sept.

Ned had lingered scarcely a fortnight with his new bride before he too had ridden off to war with promises on his lips. At least he had left her with more than words; he had given her a son. Nine moons had waxed and waned, and Robb had been born in Riverrun while his father still warred in the south. She had brought him forth in blood and pain, not knowing whether Ned would ever see him. Her son. He had been so small …

There's also sexual imagery at work: with the sword as both phallic symbol (=penis), in crude terms 'on the way in,' as well as symbolising the outcome of the sexual union (i.e. a baby), 'on the way out,' making the sheath a vaginal symbol into which the sword as phallus is inserted (sex), or from which the sword as baby is withdrawn (giving vaginal birth).  In the analogy of the execution, Theon draws the sword Ice from its sheath, and presents the sword with which the man is beheaded, with the subsequent 'delivery of the head' at Theon's feet to a dramatic spray of blood.  The technical name for giving birth is 'delivery', and this word is also used to describe the release of the baby's individual parts, or bringing them forth, from the vaginal passage (if you've ever been present at a birth, you'll also know it's a bloody, messy affair, in which one is liable to get splashed -- sorry to be so graphic, but you asked; the delivery room is not for the faint-hearted! -- should one get too close to the action, especially at the point of maximum push, just at the delivery of the head (usually the largest part of a human of that age which presents and is delivered first...e.g. if legs present first, termed a 'breech' presentation, that is considered unusual and risky).   In 'azor ahai' terms, azor ahai forges a sword (the baby) by inserting a sword (his penis) into his wife (Nissa Nissa), who dies in childbirth her 'bed of blood', giving birth to the 'special snowflake'...or special sword!

Anyway, as I've explained above in my prior post, I prefer Theon symbolically functioning in the midwife role (or even as a Stark raven-figure engaged in other sorts of deliveries), instead of as mother or baby. 

Regarding 'the point' of the figuration of Theon as Ice, or midwife to Ice, it's probably hinting at Theon's intertwined destiny with the Starks.  There's even a namesake of his, 'Theon Stark, the hungry wolf,' one of the Kings of Winter in the Winterfell crypt -- that can't be coincidental.

I'll leave the rest of the interpretation for @Seams.

Hope this has helped clarify some things for you, though.

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7 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

The exact wording used is 'Theon brought forth the sword.'  One meaning of 'brought forth' is to physically carry an item.  Another might be to 'physically carry and give birth to' a child -- 'bring a child into the world.'  

There's also sexual imagery at work: with the sword as both phallic symbol (=penis), in crude terms 'on the way in,' as well as symbolising the outcome of the sexual union (i.e. a baby), 'on the way out,' making the sheath a vaginal symbol into which the sword as phallus is inserted (sex), or from which the sword as baby is withdrawn (giving vaginal birth).  In the analogy of the execution, Theon draws the sword Ice from its sheath, and presents the sword with which the man is beheaded, with the subsequent 'delivery of the head' at Theon's feet to a dramatic spray of blood.  The technical name for giving birth is 'delivery', and this word is also used to describe the release of the baby's individual parts, or bringing them forth, from the vaginal passage (if you've ever been present at a birth, you'll also know it's a bloody, messy affair, in which one is liable to get splashed -- sorry to be so graphic, but you asked; the delivery room is not for the faint-hearted! -- should one get too close to the action, especially at the point of maximum push, just at the delivery of the head (usually the largest part of a human of that age which presents and is delivered first...e.g. if legs present first, termed a 'breech' presentation, that is considered unusual and risky).   In 'azor ahai' terms, azor ahai forges a sword (the baby) by inserting a sword (his penis) into his wife (Nissa Nissa), who dies in childbirth her 'bed of blood', giving birth to the 'special snowflake'...or special sword!

Anyway, as I've explained above in my prior post, I prefer Theon symbolically functioning in the midwife role (or even as a Stark raven-figure engaged in other sorts of deliveries), instead of as mother or baby. 

Regarding 'the point' of the figuration of Theon as Ice, or midwife to Ice, it's probably hinting at Theon's intertwined destiny with the Starks.  There's even a namesake of his, 'Theon Stark, the hungry wolf,' one of the Kings of Winter in the Winterfell crypt -- that can't be coincidental.

I'll leave the rest of the interpretation for @Seams.

Hope this has helped clarify some things for you, though.

Thanks for the explanation, I've taken the odd literature analysis class but I'll admit that most of the symbolism and what not is lost on me. 

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