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Perfumed Seneschal


OtherFromAnotherMother

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If this idea has been brought up before I apologize,  I have not read every post on here. 

Could Illyrio be the perfumed seneschal Dany needs to be aware of? 

The line from Quiathe in DwD Dany II: 

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"No. Hear me, Daenerys Targaryen. The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."

 

I was reading Lost Melnibonean's post on the Blackfyre (which is awesome!) and he had some quotes from Dany I in Got which got me thinking. 

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It was warm and close inside behind the curtains. Dany could smell the stench of Illyrio's pallid flesh through his heavy perfumes.

Illyrio is trying to cover up a stink. He uses perfumes. This could be interpreted that Illyrio is trying to hide something. 

Also, Dany is very mustrusting of Illyrio.

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Dany had no agents, no way of knowing what anyone was doing or thinking across the narrow sea, but she mistrusted Illyrio's sweet words as she mistrusted everything about Illyrio. Her brother was nodding eagerly, however. "I shall kill the Usurper myself," he promised, who had never killed anyone, "as he killed my brother Rhaegar. And Lannister too, the Kingslayer, for what he did to my father."

"That would be most fitting," Magister Illyrio said. Dany saw the smallest hint of a smile playing around his full lips, but her brother did not notice. Nodding, he pushed back a curtain and stared off into the night, and Dany knew he was fighting the Battle of the Trident once again.

Dany would certainly have reasons to be aware of Illyrio. He is probably hiding fAegon at this time. His plans for Dany, Viserys, and fAegon seem to change often. 

But wait, Illyrio is a magister, not a seneschal! Consider the dictionary.com definition of seneschal: 

an officer having full charge of domestc arrangements, ceremonies, the administration of justice, etc., in the household of a medieval prince or dignitary;steward.

This fits Illyrio very well. He is in charge of many arrangements (Dany's marriage, fAegon, etc...).

We also have this quote from Moqorro from DwD, Tyrion VIII:

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Yes and no. The world's deliverer may snick off my head or give me to her dragons as a savory. "Not me," said Tyrion. "For me, it is all about the olives. Though I fear I may grow old and die before I taste one. I could dog-paddle faster than we're sailing. Tell me, was Selaesori Qhoran a triarch or a turtle?"

The red priest chuckled. "Neither. Qhoran is … not a ruler, but one who serves and counsels such, and helps conduct his business. You of Westeros might say steward or magister."

King's Hand? That amused him. "And selaesori?"

A clue from George? 

Illyrio is a perfumed seneschal.

Could Illyrio be the perfumed seneschal Dany needs to be aware of?  Illyrio is definitely perfumed. He fits the definition of a seneschal. Dany has reasons to be aware of him. What do you think? 

 

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11 minutes ago, Sullen said:

It's likely the Selaesori Qhoran, the Fragrant Stewart, carrying on it Jorah/Tyrion/Moqorro. 

But then why would Quaithe repeat herself?

"The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."

Lion is Tyrion and dark flame is Moqorro. Why also mention the boat they are on? 

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Just now, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

But then why would Quaithe repeat herself?

"The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and themummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."

Lion is Tyrion and dark flame is Moqorro. Why also mention the boat they are on? 

I wouldn't know, it's not listed alongside the other characters though, so I doubt it refers to someone.

The fact that the name fits pretty much perfectly points to it, but why? Perhaps she only wanted to warn her of the vessel on which her troubles will come, or maybe there is something on board of the boat we're not aware of that could pose a danger to her.

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5 minutes ago, Sullen said:

I wouldn't know, it's not listed alongside the other characters though, so I doubt it refers to someone.

The fact that the name fits pretty much perfectly points to it, but why? Perhaps she only wanted to warn her of the vessel on which her troubles will come, or maybe there is something on board of the boat we're not aware of that could pose a danger to her.

Most likely the boat is sunk from the massive damage of the storm (I think the hull was holding water when the slavers found it). Even if it is not sunk yet, it is not usable. I don't see how the boat could pose any danger to her.

BTW I'm not saying that you are wrong, just discussing. I just don't get why name the boat after naming the people. It's always bothered me. 

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12 minutes ago, Sullen said:

I wouldn't know, it's not listed alongside the other characters though, so I doubt it refers to someone.

The fact that the name fits pretty much perfectly points to it, but why? Perhaps she only wanted to warn her of the vessel on which her troubles will come, or maybe there is something on board of the boat we're not aware of that could pose a danger to her.

And if it's something on board the boat shouldn't Quaithe refer to that specifically, like she does the people?

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7 minutes ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

Most likely the boat is sunk from the massive damage of the storm (I think the hull was holding water when the slavers found it). Even if it is not sunk yet, it is not usable. I don't see how the boat could pose any danger to her.

BTW I'm not saying that you are wrong, just discussing. I just don't get why name the boat after naming the people. It's always bothered me. 

I do agree that it's strange, the boat itself really doesn't seem to be a danger.

My best guess is that the perfumed seneschal is only a vessel for some of the dangers she'll have to face, more specifically Tyrion and Moqorro, a bit the same way that when Qaithe says "Remember the Undying" she's really only alluding to the Mummer's Dragon and Greyjoy again.

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8 hours ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

But then why would Quaithe repeat herself?

"The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."

Lion is Tyrion and dark flame is Moqorro. Why also mention the boat they are on? 

Jorah isn't mentioned above and Jorah was also on board of the "fragrant steward". So Quaithe might not be repeating herself...

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33 minutes ago, Sullen said:

I do agree that it's strange, the boat itself really doesn't seem to be a danger.

My best guess is that the perfumed seneschal is only a vessel for some of the dangers she'll have to face, more specifically Tyrion and Moqorro, a bit the same way that when Qaithe says "Remember the Undying" she's really only alluding to the Mummer's Dragon and Greyjoy again.

The undying is fAegon and Victarion? I've never thought that before. I think she is referring to Dany's experience in the House of the Undying.

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Just now, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

The undying is fAegon and Victarion? I've never thought that before. I think she is referring to Dany's experience in the House of the Undying.

When she asks her to remember the Undying, she's asking her to remember her experience in the House of the Undying, more specifically the vision of the Mummer's Dragon and that of the grey-smiled corpse on the prow of a ship (Kraken).

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4 minutes ago, Sullen said:

When she asks her to remember the Undying, she's asking her to remember her experience in the House of the Undying, more specifically the vision of the Mummer's Dragon and that of the grey-smiled corpse on the prow of a ship (Kraken).

Hmmm.... I respectfully disagree. I think she is referring to the HotU as a whole experience. All the visions, not specific ones.

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1 minute ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

Hmmm.... I respectfully disagree. I think she is referring to the HotU as a whole experience. All the visions, not specific ones.

She'd be repeating herself with the mummer's dragon and the kraken then, though, considering they are both part of her visions during the House of the Undying, similarly to how Tyrion and Moqorro are both part of the Fragrant Steward. 

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4 minutes ago, Sullen said:

She'd be repeating herself with the mummer's dragon and the kraken then, though, considering they are both part of her visions during the House of the Undying, similarly to how Tyrion and Moqorro are both part of the Fragrant Steward. 

I don't think she would be repeating herself though. Dany's visions in HotU encompassed a lot of things. I don't think Quaithe is telling her to remember every vision specifically. Just telling her to remember the experience, remember what you learned. 

And I don't think she is repeating herself with perfumed seneschal either. I think she is referring to a person, possibly Illyrio.

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"The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal.

Also, notice that Quaithe says soon comes the pale mare then the other people. She lists the perfumed seneschal last and says to beware. This probably means it is someone she is aware of already, whereas the others she will soon become aware of.

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9 hours ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

I'm not sure what your meaning is. Jorah is the seneschal? 

Jorah was on the senechal (which is the ship) and as you pointed out Tyrion (the Lion) and Moqorro (dark flame) have already been mentioned. That leaves Jorah... Dany be beware of Jorah.

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I suspect you are correct, but an argument can be made for Reznak...

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"Are you here?"

"No. Hear me, Daenerys Targaryen. The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."

"Reznak? Why should I fear him?" Dany rose from the pool. Water trickled down her legs, and gooseflesh covered her arms in the cool night air.

"If you have some warning for me, speak plainly. What do you want of me, Quaithe?"

Moonlight shone in the woman's eyes. "To show you the way."

"I remember the way. I go north to go south, east to go west, back to go forward. And to touch the light I have to pass beneath the shadow." She squeezed the water from her silvery hair. "I am half-sick of riddling. In Qarth I was a beggar, but here I am a queen. I command you - "

"Daenerys. Remember the Undying. Remember who you are."

 

Daenerys II, Dance 11

(By telling Daenerys that the glass candles are burning Quaithe is explaining how she's able to appear to Daenerys. I sure would like to know the back story of how Quaithe acquired a glass candle.)

The pale mare is obviously the horse that carried the flux currently ravaging Slavers Bay. (But here's one for you, why do Tyrion and the Yunkai call the flux the pale mare?)

Kraken and dark flame are obviously Victarion and Moqorro. Lion and griffin are obviously Tyrion and Jon Connington. The sun's son is obviously Quentyn and the mummer's dragon is obviously Aegon.

All of those characters were seeking to use Daenerys for their own ends, not to harm her. Quaithe doesn't tell Dany to fear them. She tells her not to trust them.

Then she tells her to remember the Undying. The Undying tried to trap her and drain her. And what was the vision to which Dany finally succumbed in the House of the Undying Ones? It was the masses crying mother. And why did she stay in Slaver's Bay? For the masses crying mother. That's why the perfumed seneschal could be Reznak. Reznak probably was in league with Hizdar and the Sons of the Harpy to put pressure on Dany so as to bend her to their will--to use her. Reznak didn't want Daenerys to leave Meereen. He wanted her to stay and to wed Hizdar.

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Reznak mo Reznak gave a piteous moan. "Then it is true. Your Worship means to abandon us." He wrung his hands. "The Yunkai'i will restore the Great Masters the instant you are gone, and we who have so faithfully served your cause will be put to the sword, our sweet wives and maiden daughters raped and enslaved."

...

"Those left behind in Meereen would envy them their easy deaths," moaned Reznak. "They will make slaves of us, or throw us in the pits. All will be as it was, or worse."

 

--Reznak wants Daenerys to stay but Quaithe urges Daenerys to remember who she is. Daenerys is the mother of dragons. Fire and blood. She's not acting the part in Meereen. 

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I think it is Reznak mo Reznak or Varys, but for the reasons that LM states above, I'm leaning toward Reznak, although we do know that Varys is on Team fAegon and chances are, that may prove troublesome for Dany at some point. GRRM likes to give us fake leads and clues and that's what I think the Selaesori Qhoran is.

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5 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I suspect you are correct, but an argument can be made for Reznak...

Daenerys II, Dance 11

(By telling Daenerys that the glass candles are burning Quaithe is explaining how she's able to appear to Daenerys. I sure would like to know the back story of how Quaithe acquired a glass candle.)

The pale mare is obviously the horse that carried the flux currently ravaging Slavers Bay. (But here's one for you, why do Tyrion and the Yunkai call the flux the pale mare?)

Kraken and dark flame are obviously Victarion and Moqorro. Lion and griffin are obviously Tyrion and Jon Connington. The sun's son is obviously Quentyn and the mummer's dragon is obviously Aegon.

All of those characters were seeking to use Daenerys for their own ends, not to harm her. Quaithe doesn't tell Dany to fear them. She tells her not to trust them.

Then she tells her to remember the Undying. The Undying tried to trap her and drain her. And what was the vision to which Dany finally succumbed in the House of the Undying Ones? It was the masses crying mother. And why did she stay in Slaver's Bay? For the masses crying mother. That's why the perfumed seneschal could be Reznak. Reznak probably was in league with Hizdar and the Sons of the Harpy to put pressure on Dany so as to bend her to their will--to use her. Reznak didn't want Daenerys to leave Meereen. He wanted her to stay and to wed Hizdar.

--Reznak wants Daenerys to stay but Quaithe urges Daenerys to remember who she is. Daenerys is the mother of dragons. Fire and blood. She's not acting the part in Meereen. 

Thanks LM. 

I had always thought it was Reznak as well but was always bothered by how obvious it seemed. It's the first person Dany thinks of, way too easy. 

I think it's Illyrio. 

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