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Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D: On the fringes of the MCU [Endgame spoilers pg. 19]


Corvinus85

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Yeah as I mentioned before the "it's all connected" bit fill apart when Feige outed Perlmuter. Bad blood there.

The guy who plays Talbot just said in a recent interview they are going to mention IW more.

I do wonder, er, how the timeline would work. Without spoiling IW its possible IW could have taken place over a few days, I suppose.

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1 hour ago, HokieStone said:

and now a giant alien spaceship hovering over the "Lighthouse".  I would think Thanos would have noticed another giant spaceship when he arrived. 

I dunno...should be interesting to see how they deal with it.

Yea Daisy’s response kinda bugged me, it kinda brushed him off like “ I haven’t got time to deal with your ‘alien spacecraft over the USA’ shenanigans, I’m dealing with this alien spacecraft over the USA!” They’ve been known to throw in a few meta jokes, I’m wondering if “I don’t watch the news, it stresses me out” is really the writers saying “we can’t keep up with the MCU, it stresses us out”.

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On 5/1/2018 at 4:52 PM, DaveSumm said:

Yea Daisy’s response kinda bugged me, it kinda brushed him off like “ I haven’t got time to deal with your ‘alien spacecraft over the USA’ shenanigans, I’m dealing with this alien spacecraft over the USA!” They’ve been known to throw in a few meta jokes, I’m wondering if “I don’t watch the news, it stresses me out” is really the writers saying “we can’t keep up with the MCU, it stresses us out”.

Heh. That's a funny thought. However, I took that line as a slight dig at the current real world socio-political landscape. *cough*trump*cough*

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3 hours ago, PetyrPunkinhead said:

Heh. That's a funny thought. However, I took that line as a slight dig at the current real world socio-political landscape. *cough*trump*cough*

Could be both :)

Infinity War spoilers:

Spoiler

Well, Daisy being amongst those killed by Thanos would be one way to change the future. Or even just any 50% of the population of the universe; I think it's safe to assume that the use of the complete set of Infinity Stones breaks the established timeline. A bit of a copout, though. I suppose if it doesn't guarantee Earth's survival, but opens up the possibility of it being saved, it could work out ok.

Post-massacre present day Earth would make an interesting setting for the next season, but it seems rather unlikely that there won't be a mass resurrection or rewinding of time in the next Avengers movie, and I doubt the movie writers will give any thought to what AoS needs to handle that gracefully. And they really need to lose at least a couple of the main cast, if not three or four, which is a bit awkward for a whole season.

 

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The dis-association from the movie universe is annoying, for sure... but my main nit-pick with this show is their use of red shirts... it seems that whenever they need to show a few fallen good guys in order to invoke a sense of dire circumstance, they suddenly have a couple of extra agents on hand to take a bullet. 

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Well there is no going back now, Thanos is present. Too bad the movies won't mention the show.

Spoiler

Hypothetically speaking, if AoS was part of the MCU, it would be hilarious if, just as the Avengers are ready to enact their plan to defeat Thanos and reverse some of the events of Infinity War, the Agents mess it up and the Earth blows up, killing the rest of the Avengers. Thanos wins. Then it's revealed that Dr. Strange created the time loop for the Agents all along. :P 

 

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Gotta say, I did a double take with that Thanos bomb tonight. I loved it. Regardless of the movies and their typical treatment of the TV properties, it seems the estrangement was becoming more and more of a thing on the TV side, too. Has it been several years since we got an episode tying into a movie? I mean besides an easter egg.

Significant development -- if Thanos is attacking Earth during this episode, the show can't not somehow deal with the aftermath next season -- if there is one.

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On 5/1/2018 at 10:37 PM, HokieStone said:

I feel like they've sort of painted themselves into a corner with the show.  They've clearly referenced the events of Infinity War with the "Have you seen what's going on in New York" line.  And even to a certain extent prior to that - didn't the alien in the show say something to General Hale about being able to protect Earth from the coming war?  So much for that.  Since they've referenced Infinity War, I don't see how they get away with not feeling the effects of the ending of that movie. 

Timing may be a key...as a few others have mentioned.  They may be able to time it such that they get through the last 3 episodes without getting to the end of Infinity War. 

But beyond that, as has been lamented many times, it just doesn't feel like they're in sync with the movies.  As I recall, when the show was started, the idea was that they would focus on smaller stories, that wouldn't come to the attention of heroes like the Avengers.  But...we've had a world-wide Inhuman crisis (as I recall, they showed it being reported on news shows, and the MCU POTUS showed up in an episode), characters that are on par, power-wise with some of the Avengers, a literal earth-shattering moment, and now a giant alien spaceship hovering over the "Lighthouse".  I would think Thanos would have noticed another giant spaceship when he arrived. 

I dunno...should be interesting to see how they deal with it.

The idea of the show focusing on smaller stories would have severely limited the show (especially since the grounded thing is being done on Netflix shows), and it was at the time when the show was doing smaller things and operating as a semi-procedural (in the first half of season 1, while waiting for the release of The Winter Soldier to come near) that the audience complained the most about it. On the other hand, tying everything up to the movie plots is not viable - especially when the movies are staunchly ignoring everything that happens on the shows. 

The Winter Soldier was really the only strong and genuine tie-in the show has had (but it also resulted in the show stalling for the first 2/3 of season 1 and appearing to be semi-procedural, because it couldn't reveal the main storyline, which hurt its reputation and chances of wider popularity a lot). I thought that the season 2 Age of Ultron tie-in was lame and showed exactly why most of the tie-ins wouldn't work: introducing a big plot point and then resolving it outside of the show and referencing it in the next episode isn't great writing and feels weird and out of place. And it was a minor tie-in. 

Other times, the show didn't do tie-ins as much as simply use and flesh out minor characters from the movies, from Hill and Sif to List and, in particular, Malick in season 3.

Infinity War is a particular problem for any possible tie-ins, because it's a movie in two parts, where you have to wait for a year for the resolution (even though it's not hard to guess at least some things from the Marvel movie schedule). How would a TV show even do a real Infinity War tie-in? 

 

You can't just have a few of the main characters disappear, have them missing for the entire season 6, if there is one, and then, near the end of season 6, after Infinity War part 2 is released, just have them pop up back again, with a reference to the timeline being restored/people Thanos has killed being brought back in the movie.That would be utterly terrible writing and self-destructive actions for any TV show. 


Or, if the show does not get a season 6, even worse - have characters disappear for reasons that are explained in the movie rather than having anything to do with the plot of the show, and then never resolve their fate, just letting the audience to imagine that they popped back up later, and then...err, just imagine the heartfelt reunions with their teammates, or something. (Or not so heartfelt, considering the current state of the team relations.)

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Infinity War:

On 06/05/2018 at 10:04 AM, Annara Snow said:
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You can't just have a few of the main characters disappear, have them missing for the entire season 6, if there is one, and then, near the end of season 6, after Infinity War part 2 is released, just have them pop up back again, with a reference to the timeline being restored/people Thanos has killed being brought back in the movie.

Spoiler

I don't see why not; is there anyone on the planet who watches the show but not the movies? The post-disappearance world would be great material for the show to work with, and they can round out the cast with some new and returning characters, eg Mockingbird and Deathlok. The only issues are whether the Avengers movies are going to leave room for a season of Shield to fit in between, and whether they'll restore the dead without unhappening the time when they were gone (a time reversal would suck at the best of times, but following immediately after this season's arc would be untenable). Unfortunately I wouldn't count on them even telling the showrunners what the plan is for Avengers 4, let alone care about how it's going to affect the show.

 

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On 5/7/2018 at 4:15 AM, felice said:

Infinity War:

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I don't see why not; is there anyone on the planet who watches the show but not the movies? The post-disappearance world would be great material for the show to work with, and they can round out the cast with some new and returning characters, eg Mockingbird and Deathlok. The only issues are whether the Avengers movies are going to leave room for a season of Shield to fit in between, and whether they'll restore the dead without unhappening the time when they were gone (a time reversal would suck at the best of times, but following immediately after this season's arc would be untenable). Unfortunately I wouldn't count on them even telling the showrunners what the plan is for Avengers 4, let alone care about how it's going to affect the show.

 

Why not? For starters, because it would be terrible writing for a TV show and the worst storyline ever, and more importantly because it would be completely self-destructive for the TV show. Yeah, go and do it, if you want half of AoS fandom abandoning the show in anger.

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It would definitely be tricky to do any of that. As long as the MCU continues to ignore the show, I don't see any more meaningful connections, otherwise, like Annara said, it could be terrible writing.

However, with Agent Coulson being part of the Captain Marvel movie, albeit it's a prequel to the present timeline, there's a chance for more connections there. It would be nice if Feige has a sit down with the show writers and work something out. If it's true that Disney forbade ABC from cancelling the show, maybe something is in the works. :dunno:

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On 5/6/2018 at 7:15 PM, felice said:

Infinity War:

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I don't see why not; is there anyone on the planet who watches the show but not the movies? The post-disappearance world would be great material for the show to work with, and they can round out the cast with some new and returning characters, eg Mockingbird and Deathlok. The only issues are whether the Avengers movies are going to leave room for a season of Shield to fit in between, and whether they'll restore the dead without unhappening the time when they were gone (a time reversal would suck at the best of times, but following immediately after this season's arc would be untenable). Unfortunately I wouldn't count on them even telling the showrunners what the plan is for Avengers 4, let alone care about how it's going to affect the show.

 

Spoiler

I think the Infinity War has killed any tie-in to Agents of Shield and even any of the Netflix Marvel shows.  

If you have a time reset in Avengers 4, then anything in the next season of Agents of Shield is undone as the bulk of the season will air before Avengers 4 is released.  

If there is no time reset in Avengers 4, but all the people snapped away are snapped back, then all the Marvel TV shows are left with a world that is forever changed.   You can't have the same world after half the people disappeared, whether for a few days or for 8 months, it won't just go back to normal. 

One way to make the next season worthwhile is if you have Fury's message going to Coulson, rather than to Captain Marvel directly.  Then the new season is Agents of Shield can be searching for Captain Marvel in a universe where half the people disappeared and bringing her back in time to save the day in Avengers 4.    For those who don't watch Agents of Shield, all they need to know is she got the message and shows up in the movie.  This works best with the time reset, but can work without it, but then you are still left with a world that is totally changed.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Leofric said:
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One way to make the next season worthwhile is if you have Fury's message going to Coulson, rather than to Captain Marvel directly.  Then the new season is Agents of Shield can be searching for Captain Marvel in a universe where half the people disappeared and bringing her back in time to save the day in Avengers 4.    For those who don't watch Agents of Shield, all they need to know is she got the message and shows up in the movie.  This works best with the time reset, but can work without it, but then you are still left with a world that is totally changed.

 

Spoiler

This is exactly what we all hoped Agents of SHIELD would be from the outset. These are the kind of plots that would’ve made AoS indispensable for an MCU fan wanting to get the most out of the films, but sadly they won’t let the show go anywhere near Captain Marvel, that message, Fury, any of it. That’ll be out of bounds. I can’t figure anyway out of this issue: it’s either ignore it and consign yourself to non-canon status (and they’ve already mentioned the opening of the movie) or wipe out half your cast, possibly to be rewritten by the movies. This is terrible writing though for a show.

I like the idea of Graviton just forming some gravity bubble around the main cast, maybe leave a red shirt outside who flakes away, then carrying on. Should Graviton trump the gauntlet? Fuck no. But as Lois said when Family Guy carried on stealing Duff beer after their Simpsons crossover: “So? What are they gonna do, come over here?”

 

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3 hours ago, Leofric said:
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If there is no time reset in Avengers 4, but all the people snapped away are snapped back, then all the Marvel TV shows are left with a world that is forever changed.   You can't have the same world after half the people disappeared, whether for a few days or for 8 months, it won't just go back to normal. 

One way to make the next season worthwhile is if you have Fury's message going to Coulson, rather than to Captain Marvel directly.  Then the new season is Agents of Shield can be searching for Captain Marvel in a universe where half the people disappeared and bringing her back in time to save the day in Avengers 4.

 

Spoiler

Personally I'd love to see the world forever changed. Though it should already be somewhat changed by the alien invasions and superheroes flying around and random people developing superpowers by eating fish oil. Why would you want it to just go back to normal?

I think they could get away with dusting just three of the main cast, and give the actors guest appearances in flashbacks or as clones/LMDs/hallucinations/shapeshifters/whatever.

I'm not sure tying the show that closely to Captain Marvel would really pay off; even if the movies cooperate with making it seem like it could have happened, it risks feeling superfluous - an entire season of deleted scenes. And I am sure they don't have the budget to do an interplanetary road trip justice.

 

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10 minutes ago, felice said:
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Personally I'd love to see the world forever changed. Though it should already be somewhat changed by the alien invasions and superheroes flying around and random people developing superpowers by eating fish oil. Why would you want it to just go back to normal?

I think they could get away with dusting just three of the main cast, and give the actors guest appearances in flashbacks or as clones/LMDs/hallucinations/shapeshifters/whatever.

I'm not sure tying the show that closely to Captain Marvel would really pay off; even if the movies cooperate with making it seem like it could have happened, it risks feeling superfluous - an entire season of deleted scenes. And I am sure they don't have the budget to do an interplanetary road trip justice.

 

Spoiler

I don't necessarily want it to go back to normal,  as there are great stories they could do dealing with the aftermath.    I just mean they would have to consistently address the new world mind set, where an alien could wipe out half the population on a whim.   The psychological impact would be immense, there would be permanent consequences that they can't reset any point. 

The point was if they do a time reset in Avengers 4, then anything Agents of Shield does will be a season of deleted scenes if you want the show to remain in the MCU, unless you tie what they do into the solution in Avengers 4, making it matter.  

 

 

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Edited the thread title so you guys don't have to keep using spoiler tags for anything touching Infinity War and the MCU.

Beware, you handful who haven't see the movie, but watch this show!

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54 minutes ago, Leofric said:

The point was if they do a time reset in Avengers 4, then anything Agents of Shield does will be a season of deleted scenes if you want the show to remain in the MCU, unless you tie what they do into the solution in Avengers 4, making it matter. 

Oh yes, if there's a time reset then Agents is screwed. I'd actually prefer if they'd ditched the MCU long ago, but that's clearly not the direction they've chosen. Tying season six very closely to Avengers 4 could potentially work, I guess, but it wouldn't be easy to pull off well. I'd rather see them avoiding the consequences of Infinity War by time travelling again - maybe an Agent Carter crossover season?

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Interesting possibility from the Infinity War writers:

Apparently 

Avengers 4 won't resolve things the way "people think they will", presumably meaning using the Time Stone to undo Thanos's actions. Since Spider-Man 2Black Panther 2GotG 3 etc are on their way, that means the other main possibility is perhaps our heroes changing universes to a parallel one where Thanos was not defeated, or something. If that's the case, maybe Agents of SHIELD will simply stay in the original timeline where 50% of the universe is wiped out? Could be a downer ending for the presumably-final season of the show.

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