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Martell Spy

Marvel Netflix - Sweet Christmas!

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There are a couple articles claiming this was a mixture of creative differences (presumably over how villainous to make Luke in season 3?) and meh ratings for the second season. I wonder if we might now get a Defenders season two to wrap things up now that these two have been cancelled. I really don't think this is Disney taking back their IP's for their new streaming service. They'd need to let them rest for a few years anyway. Netflix has been canning and otherwise announcing the end of a lot of shows lately.  I just read today they borrowed $2 billion to make new original content. It's only natural they'd want to prune the shows with low viewership or "viewer engagement" or however the hell they measure it these days. 

Edit: Watching Daredevil, episode one or two spoilers:

Didn't that priest have to deduce who Murdoch was in season one? Something about having heard about his father? Now he's known him since childhood and helped raise him? 

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I do find the underperforming idea odd. If Netflix renewed Altered Carbon after apparently dismal ratings they should renew anything, and the Marvel shows have to be, at most, half as expensive as AC. That said, there are a lot of them and if Netflix are viewing them as one project, they might be looking at the cumulative cost of shooting each one: this year they probably spent close to $200 million on producing four seasons of Marvel shows, which may be too much for them and also too much content. I was following these shows quite religiously for a couple of years and even I burned out and left Jessica Jones for six months, by which time I had three seasons in a row to catch up on. I know a lot of my friends, even hardcore Marvel fans who liked the earlier seasons, felt the same way.

That said, it might be that AC's long-term streamings (people streaming it 3 and 4 and 6 months later) held up quite well whilst for the Marvel shows they haven't. Everything Sucks apparently had fantastic early streams, but these dropped like a stone afterwards and, more to the point, relatively few people finished the season compared to how many started, which is why they canned it after just one season. Conversely American Vandal had a hugely long tail and people were coming to it fresh months after it aired.

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1 hour ago, Werthead said:

I do find the underperforming idea odd. If Netflix renewed Altered Carbon after apparently dismal ratings they should renew anything, and the Marvel shows have to be, at most, half as expensive as AC. [Snip]

That said, it might be that AC's long-term streamings (people streaming it 3 and 4 and 6 months later) held up quite well whilst for the Marvel shows they haven't. Everything Sucks apparently had fantastic early streams, but these dropped like a stone afterwards and, more to the point, relatively few people finished the season compared to how many started, which is why they canned it after just one season. 

I would’ve thought Netflix has more control over those shows though and less hassle in not dealing with a studio with a broadcasting behemoth behind it.  So the combination of underperformance plus frustrated relationships probably just makes it not worthwhile.

i did think the Everything Sucks decision was weird. It seems like it was cancelled before many subscribers even had the chance to watch it.  I don’t see how that decision making can work with the Netflix model, you can’t rely on trending and binging both at once because if I’m binging something I’m not watching new releases.

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We don't know much about Netflix's metrics for success (on purpose - it gives them more leverage with creators), but I do recall reading that this

3 hours ago, Werthead said:

more to the point, relatively few people finished the season compared to how many started, which is why they canned it after just one season.

is a big deal for them. A show with a lot of starts, but people abandoning the show without finishing it counts hugely against that show and decisions on renewal. 

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[mod] There's a spoiler thread for DDS3, take the spoilers - even under tags - out of this thread please. [/mod]

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Does Netflix have individual data on subscribers? Like, do they know if the same person doesn’t finish a series and then cancels, or do they just have ‘didn’t finish’ and ‘cancelled’ figures and correlate them?

I kinda burned out on the Marvel stuff as well. Initially I was propelled by the Marvel factor, that I wanted to have seen everything in the MCU as it went along, but then LC1 and IF1 were a slog and it didn’t look like I’d miss anything relevant for any other part of the universe. What really killed things for me is how poor I found Defenders, until then things had their own mini-inertia within the MCU that it was building to a team up. But why slog through LC2 and IF2 when you didn’t like their first seasons and didn’t like their team up? I did plan on catching up but now it looks like the whole thing is collapsing so I’m struggling to see the point.

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4 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

Does Netflix have individual data on subscribers? Like, do they know if the same person doesn’t finish a series and then cancels, or do they just have ‘didn’t finish’ and ‘cancelled’ figures and correlate them?

I kinda burned out on the Marvel stuff as well. Initially I was propelled by the Marvel factor, that I wanted to have seen everything in the MCU as it went along, but then LC1 and IF1 were a slog and it didn’t look like I’d miss anything relevant for any other part of the universe. What really killed things for me is how poor I found Defenders, until then things had their own mini-inertia within the MCU that it was building to a team up. But why slog through LC2 and IF2 when you didn’t like their first seasons and didn’t like their team up? I did plan on catching up but now it looks like the whole thing is collapsing so I’m struggling to see the point.

If nothing else, just skip to Daredevil season three after Defenders.  It's absolutely worth it, and it tells a completely self-contained story outside of the fact that it basically picks up where Matt is at when Defenders ends.

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Yeah, you don't really need to watch IF and LC at all. Like one episode of each would have been enough to give you the gist of those characters for Defenders, and after Defenders, well, as @briantw says, you don't need any of the other shows to enjoy DD3 on its own. It makes small references to other heroes (very generally) and vanishingly small, specific references to the Punisher and Jessica Jones and the events of the Defenders, but that's about it.

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11 minutes ago, Ran said:

Yeah, you don't really need to watch IF and LC at all. Like one episode of each would have been enough to give you the gist of those characters for Defenders, and after Defenders, well, as @briantw says, you don't need any of the other shows to enjoy DD3 on its own. It makes small references to other heroes (very generally) and vanishingly small, specific references to the Punisher and Jessica Jones and the events of the Defenders, but that's about it.

And really, Defenders was basically just another season of Daredevil since it was a continuation of his season two plot.

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