Finding Lightbringer

[maegiithefrog]

There are a lot of great theories out there concerning Lightbringer, many of which claim that it's not a sword at all. I, for one, DO think that Lightbringer is a sword, and I'm here to state my case today. I'm jotting some thoughts I've had on this subject and welcome your feedback.

Candidate # 1 - Dawn

From the Wiki:

According to legend, the founder of House Dayne tracked a falling star to the mouth of the Torentine, and Starfall was then constructed where a magical stone was discovered.[2] The greatsword Dawn was forged from the heart of this fallen star[3] and has possibly been wielded by Daynes for ten thousand years.[4] The sigil of the Daynes depicts the white sword and falling star.[5]

The blade is as pale as milkglass,[1] unlike dark Valyrian steel, but is similar in strength and sharpness.[6] Unlike other houses who have ancestral swords, House Dayne does not pass its sword from lord to heir. Only a knight of House Dayne who is deemed worthy can wield Dawn, and the Sword of the Morning is envied throughout the Seven Kingdoms.[6]

The last known user of the sword was Ser Arthur Dayne, a chivalrous knight in the Kingsguard of Aerys II Targaryen.[7] The Smiling Knight of the Kingswood Brotherhood tried to claim Dawn from Arthur, but the robber knight was killed by the Sword of the Morning.[8] After Arthur died in combat at the tower of joy during Robert's Rebellion, Eddard Stark rode to Starfall to deliver Dawn to Arthur's sister, Ashara Dayne.[9]

The blade is said to be "pale as milkglass" and "forged from the heart of this fallen star."

Milk Glass - What are the properties of milkglass? Pay close attention to the picture where it shows the Tyndall effect. "Some glasses are somewhat more blue from the side, and somewhat red-orange in pass-through light"  Now I'm not saying that Dawn is made of milkglass - definitely not - but think this property of milkglass is interesting in a metaphorical sense.

Forged from the Heart:  From the Wiki:

Quote

This time, he called for his wife, Nissa Nissa, and asked her to bare her breast. He drove his sword into her breast, her soul combining with the steel of the sword, creating Lightbringer, while her cry of anguish and ecstasy left a crack across the face of the moon

Fallen Star -- Above I said I didn't think that Dawn was made of milkglass, so what is it actually made of?  Meteorites -- and that's what "falling stars" are,but taking that a step further, I'd say lunar (from the moon) meteorites from the "crack across the face of the moon." That's why the Dayne's ancestral home is called Starfall -- it's where the lunar meteorite landed. Interestingly, lunar meteorites are typically found in deserts (Dorne, anyone?).

Quote

According to legend, Starfall was built where the first Dayne found a magic stone after he followed the path of a shooting star. The Daynes grew in power to become the Kings of the Torrentine and one of the strongest houses of Dorne.^[7]

I think the sword was forged from the core of the lunar meteorite that landed at Starfall.

More Conjecture

In The World of Ice and Fire, there's this interesting little tidbit:

Quote

"...while in Qarth the tales state that there was once a second moon in the sky. One day this moon was scalded by the sun and cracked like an egg, and a million dragons poured forth"

I'm thinking these "million dragons" were lunar meteorites - perhaps that counts as "dragon-forged?" (Hell, we can get anything to fit our theory if we apply ourselves! I know it's a stretch). And while the core of these may be milky white, the exterior is oily, black stone But I won't go down that rabbit hole right now!

 

Candidate # 2 - Just Maid (or is it really just Dawn again?)

I'll say that I think the case for Dawn is stronger, but stick with me here, and I think it may be that Just Maid and Dawn are one and the same. As you know, Just Maid was the sword of the legendary Ser Galladon of Morne, who was said to be from Tarth. From the Wiki:

Quote

 

Ser Galladon was a perfect knight. His valor was so great the Maiden, of the Seven, fell in love with him. She gave him an enchanted sword, the Just Maid, to demonstrate her love for him. No sword could check the sword's blows, no shield could stop them.

According to the legend, Galladon only unsheathed the sword three times, not once against a mortal man, for the fight would have been unfair.^[

 

Is the story of Ser Galladon really just another framework for the story of Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa? Is the "Maid" giving "Ser Galladon" the sword just an allegory for Nissa Nissa giving her life to AA to forge Lightbringer? Maybe.

Three -- I find it interesting that Lightbringer was forged three times, and Just Maid was unsheathed only three times. Could be nothing, just thought it was interesting.

Evenfall Hall/Evenstar --  In Astrology, Evening Star = the planet Venus, which is named for Venus, the Romain goddess of love and beauty. Sounds like the Maid of the Seven, right? What sticks out to me, though, is the similarity to "Starfall" as far as the naming goes. If want to go all Tolkien on the subject, we could say that Arwen (Evenstar) who gave up her life/immortality for her love is a parallel to Nissa Nissa. Unfortunately, I've not been about to come up with an interesting parallel for why they call Tarth the "Sapphire Isle," though I do believe it has more to do with the color of the water Still working on that.  As far as the "even" part, I'm thinking this refers to the wielder of Lightbringer bringing balance back to Planetos (the balancing of ice and fire, maybe the eventual normalizing of the seasons that have been out of whack) Their coat of arms certainly seems to suggest some kind of balance with the suns/moons and reds/blues.

Fun with Anagrams -- Galladon of Morne unscrambled is "A Moon Dragon Fell." Sounds an awful lot like the dragons pouring forth from the moon in the tales from Qarth.

I really wish we knew the words of Houses Dayne and Tarth. I also wish we had a description of Just Maid! I'd be interested to know whether it matches the description of Dawn.

 

That's all I've got for now, folks -- fire away with your thoughts!

 

[Winter prince]

Longclaw- just because there is something odd about that sword and its origin

[Greywater-Watch]

10 hours ago, Winter prince said:

Longclaw- just because there is something odd about that sword and its origin

Longclaw and Ice are always described as being easy to identify as made of Valyrian steel because of "ripples in the dark steel".

And that from a far distance: Arya being in the crowd, close to Baelor's statue, at some distance from Ilyn Payne, when Ned Stark is about to be beheaded - she recognizes Ice: "As he lifted the blade above his head, sunlight seemed to ripple and Dance down the dark metal, glinting off an edge sharper than any razor. Ice, she thought, he has Ice."

So, Maegiethefrog is right in one thing at least: While Valyrian steel is DARK with ripples, Dawn is "pale as milkglass", thus with a white or greyish colour, maybe slightly transparent.

[Lord Vance II]

Maybe an unpopular theory, but I don't think it exists. Or at least isn't anywhere the story will reach. 

I've always liked the theory that the story of Lightbringer's forging is the story of the first Valyrian Steel sword, or at least a technique the Valyrians refined. Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa may have been real, and him gutting Nissa Nissa was blood magic that transformed it into Valyrian steel. In this case, I guess it's possible that original VS sword could be around somewhere. 

I think it just highlights the importance VS might have in the War for the Dawn (I know it's a show idea, but it seems pretty plausible to me).  

[dornishdame]

13 hours ago, Winter prince said:

Longclaw- just because there is something odd about that sword and its origin

I have yet to be convinced that Lightbringer is any one particular sword, but Longclaw is an interesting study as a result of this dream Jon has:

Burning shafts hissed upward, trailing tongues of fire. Scarecrow brothers tumbled down, black cloaks ablaze. "Snow," an eagle cried, as foemen scuttled up the ice like spiders. Jon was armored in black ice, but his blade burned red in his fist. As the dead men reached the top of the Wall he sent them down to die again. He slew a greybeard and a beardless boy, a giant, a gaunt man with filed teeth, a girl with thick red hair. Too late he recognized Ygritte. She was gone as quick as she'd appeared.

The world dissolved into a red mist. Jon stabbed and slashed and cut. He hacked down Donal Noye and gutted Deaf Dick Follard. Qhorin Halfhand stumbled to his knees, trying in vain to staunch the flow of blood from his neck. "I am the Lord of Winterfell," Jon screamed. It was Robb before him now, his hair wet with melting snow. Longclaw took his head off. Then a gnarled hand seized Jon roughly by the shoulder. He whirled …(Jon XII in A Dance with Dragons)

As I said, I have yet to be convinced by one particular theory, but I do find it interesting that in this dream Jon thinks of himself wielding a burning blade that he identifies in the following paragraph as Longclaw. 

[Winter prince]

2 hours ago, dornishdame said:

I have yet to be convinced that Lightbringer is any one particular sword, but Longclaw is an interesting study as a result of this dream Jon has:

Burning shafts hissed upward, trailing tongues of fire. Scarecrow brothers tumbled down, black cloaks ablaze. "Snow," an eagle cried, as foemen scuttled up the ice like spiders. Jon was armored in black ice, but his blade burned red in his fist. As the dead men reached the top of the Wall he sent them down to die again. He slew a greybeard and a beardless boy, a giant, a gaunt man with filed teeth, a girl with thick red hair. Too late he recognized Ygritte. She was gone as quick as she'd appeared.

The world dissolved into a red mist. Jon stabbed and slashed and cut. He hacked down Donal Noye and gutted Deaf Dick Follard. Qhorin Halfhand stumbled to his knees, trying in vain to staunch the flow of blood from his neck. "I am the Lord of Winterfell," Jon screamed. It was Robb before him now, his hair wet with melting snow. Longclaw took his head off. Then a gnarled hand seized Jon roughly by the shoulder. He whirled …(Jon XII in A Dance with Dragons)

As I said, I have yet to be convinced by one particular theory, but I do find it interesting that in this dream Jon thinks of himself wielding a burning blade that he identifies in the following paragraph as Longclaw. 

I couldn't remember the dream but I thought it described both a burning blade and longclaw in the sequence.  So, there is some potential with that or Mel teaches Jon the neat flaming sword trick

[fire&blood]

I find it interesting that there is a sword already called Dawn and the person wielding it is the Sword of the Morning, all while an impending Battle for the Dawn pt. 2 is gearing up in the series. Is it too on the nose? Is it a red herring?  It feels like Dawn is the Lightbringer. 

[Greywater-Watch]

I read the chapter Davos I in ACOK again and found - to my surprise - that already Salladhor Saan notes that the sword Melisandre gave to Stannis was NOT Lightbringer (as it was a burned and not a burning sword). I had this notion in mind only from Maester Aemon (AFFC Samwell IV).

So, if we assume that Dawn or whatever existing sword was in fact Lightbringer, we would have to assume that this sword would be cold and not burning at the moment, but would start to burn (i.e. really become hot) under certain conditions only. This however is not supported by Maester Aemon, who seems to expect that Lightbringer was always afire.

If e.g. Dawn had been aflame when Ser Arthur Dayne wielded it, we would have been told, it definitely was not.