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13 minutes ago, The Grey Wolf said:

@Fez

I recommend Fate/Zero and Devilman Crybaby. Don't know how good the dub is though. (I usually watch anime subbed.)

Thanks. I was thinking of checking out Devilman Crybaby too. I've heard of Fate/Zero, but I've been scared off by how many Fate/ series there are and I don't know much about it.

 

I should also note, in the past I've seen a bunch of Full Metal Alchemist, the first season of Attack on Titan, the first couple episodes of Knights of Sidonia, and the first episode of Seven Deadly Sins (and probably some others that I'm forgetting), and I didn't much like any of it. I watched all of DBZ as a kid and loved it then, but going back as an adult I was just bored. I also recently saw the first two episodes of Gurren Lagan (which is what led to Kill La Kill) and hated them. And I saw half an episode of Kakegurui and was so put off by the animation style I just couldn't watch it. So I've kinda been operating under the assumption that anime just isn't for me; but Kill La Kill and Black Lagoon (and Castlevania I suppose) has proven me wrong. I just hadn't found the right kind of shows for me before.

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11 hours ago, Fez said:

I watch very little anime usually. I did watch Netflix's Castlevania though, which was pretty good. And then, last week, through a chain of events I'm still not exactly sure of, I watched all of Kill La Kill, and I actually liked it quite a lot. I did like the first half more than the second half, but I thought the whole thing was really well done. There was no filler, the moments of cliched angst were resolved extremely quickly, the action was stylish, and I mostly enjoyed the humor (except the pet dog). Good music too, and really good English VA (which is key to me because I don't like subs).

In fact, I liked it enough that I got interested in finding another anime to watch; which led me to discovering that Netflix's anime selection is almost entirely the kinds of anime that drove me away from the medium in the past. I don't like stories featuring kid/teenage bland/naive male leads going on a journey of self-discovery or finding their powers, or (usually) stories set in high school or featuring kids/teens at all (technically Kill La Kill was, but it was so abstracted and everyone basically acted like adults anyway)*.

However, I did stumble across a recommendation for Black Lagoon as an anime with adult characters, and I'm watching that on a Hulu free trial. I'm really liking it too. Rock is sort of like the adult version of the teen characters I don't like, but he has a little more depth and is age-appropriate at least. More importantly, Revy and Dutch have been getting just as much focus so far and are much more fun characters. It's got fun, dumb action and again has really good English VA. I'm going to keep watching it, and when I finish up, I have another recommendation lined up to check out, Psycho-Pass. 

I'm wondering what are some other shows in a similar vein to these that are worth checking out? I did see some number of Ghost in the Shell movies years ago, and those were good.

I watched black lagoon a decade ago and i did enjoy the action and characters. Weirdly I've been thinking about the show while watching cowboy bebop as both are about a small team of guns for hire (although i think black lagoon are mercenaries not bounty hunters).

I'd probably give ghost in the shell stand alone complex a go too (unless it's the non SF aspect of lagoon you enjoy). Both shows have characters embarking on long-winded phillosophising amidst all the action.

For the other boarders a quick question, is wolf's rain worth watching? It's airing on the same channel as cowboy Bebop and i vaguely recall it being on sime top 10 lists.

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11 hours ago, Fez said:

I've heard of Fate/Zero, but I've been scared off by how many Fate/ series there are and I don't know much about it.

Fate/Zero and the first season of the previously mentioned Psycho-Pass are both written by Gen Urobuchi. If you want succinct, adult character-driven drama that can be finished in two weekends, they are definitely the stories you are looking for.

And don't worry about the rest of the Fate franchise. It's mostly drivel. ;)

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Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, red snow said:

I watched black lagoon a decade ago and i did enjoy the action and characters. Weirdly I've been thinking about the show while watching cowboy bebop as both are about a small team of guns for hire (although i think black lagoon are mercenaries not bounty hunters).

I'd probably give ghost in the shell stand alone complex a go too (unless it's the non SF aspect of lagoon you enjoy). Both shows have characters embarking on long-winded phillosophising amidst all the action.

I'm starting to get a little disappointed by Black Lagoon actually, though I'm going to finish it off. I feel like it betrayed it's own "realistic" setting by first having a whole arc about a super-powered household maid and then a whole arc about two unstoppable child assassins. Both feel like the writer got notes about needing to more recognizable anime tropes to boost sales (I assume this is based off a manga). Also, while I like a lot that there's starting to be more recurring characters than just the one female mob boss, it feels like the writer got bored with the initial premise and changed things from "the adventures of this ragtag crew and the new guy trying to fit in" to "Revy's crazy adventures in this town of crazy people." I like Revy a lot, I'm all about strong female characters, but I wish Rock and Dutch weren't so sidelined; and the fourth crew member (Benny?) almost seems like he was written out of the show entirely.

Basically, I'd like a show that doesn't do all that (the super maid and child assassin stuff I mean; premise changing isn't really a problem). I'm totally fine with sci-fi, though I prefer "western-style," and long-winded speeches I can take or leave. What I want are adult characters (or emotionally mature, late teen characters at worst) doing something interesting; whether that's solving a mystery, going on adventures, saving the world, or whatever; in a world that sticks to its own recognizable rules, whatever those may be. The first 7 episodes of Black Lagoon were exactly what I wanted.

ETA: Kill La Kill had way crazier stuff, obviously. But the difference was, it was insane from the get-go, so nothing felt jarring about any of the weird stuff that showed up. Also, it felt more uniquely weird; whereas creepy, overpowered kids and super maids are things I've seen a lot before (mostly in JRPGs).

 

23 hours ago, Toth said:

Fate/Zero and the first season of the previously mentioned Psycho-Pass are both written by Gen Urobuchi. If you want succinct, adult character-driven drama that can be finished in two weekends, they are definitely the stories you are looking for.

And don't worry about the rest of the Fate franchise. It's mostly drivel. ;)

Good to know. Thanks. I'll check it out.

Edited by Fez

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Fez.  Try the dragon prince!

 

I've finished cowboy Bebop. I enjoyed the world building and frenetic done-in-episode pace quite a bit. Refreshing to not have 4 part arcs all the time although the show still had overall arcs.

I'm a lot more curious about the live action version now. I wonder if they'll adapt it so that Faye is the point of entry character?

given her amnesia and frozen from the past they could have her dropping contemporary comments and phrases while not being aware she is from our time. It's a trick that works well in a lot of SF shows to have a very relatable character eg farscape, buck rogers, flash gordon, stargate and Dr who. Yes, she has amnesia but she didn't relearn language etc so she could easily behave like us and maybe even mske references to now without fully realising.

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2 hours ago, red snow said:

Fez.  Try the dragon prince!

I did, I think. If its the one I'm thinking of, there was a fourth wall-breaking Game of Thrones reference and look towards camera in the first episode, and I immediately noped out of there.

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6 hours ago, The Grey Wolf said:

@red snow

You should try Samurai Champloo if you haven't already.

Weirdly i watched that 10 years ago but that's mainly because i had a soft spot for ninja and samurai back then so it trumped bebop at the time.

6 hours ago, Fez said:

I did, I think. If its the one I'm thinking of, there was a fourth wall-breaking Game of Thrones reference and look towards camera in the first episode, and I immediately noped out of there.

On the one hand i admire your "life's too short to watch things i don't like" on the other i think you are missing out by having incredibly harsh criteria for quitting a show on its first episode. To each their own, i often could do with being harsher on dropping shows or even starting them.

The show has occasionally jokes about other shows but i don't recall them ever breaking the 4th wall. And you are missing out on "What I want are adult characters (or emotionally mature, late teen characters at worst) doing something interesting; whether that's solving a mystery, going on adventures, saving the world, or whatever; in a world thatsticks to its own recognizable rules, whatever those may be" which it has in abundance. Unless you class a joke that references something they haven't seen as breaking their own rules?

in season 2 they drop a "one does not simply walk into Mordor" line but they replace Mordor with their destination. So it's not like the characters are aware of LOTR or even need to be in order for the joke to work.

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On 3/18/2019 at 10:17 AM, Toth said:

Fate/Zero and the first season of the previously mentioned Psycho-Pass are both written by Gen Urobuchi. If you want succinct, adult character-driven drama that can be finished in two weekends, they are definitely the stories you are looking for.

And don't worry about the rest of the Fate franchise. It's mostly drivel. ;)

I don't know, those first two Heaven's Feel movies are pretty insanely dark as well. I just hope they land things with the third one.

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6 hours ago, red snow said:

Weirdly i watched that 10 years ago but that's mainly because i had a soft spot for ninja and samurai back then so it trumped bebop at the time.

On the one hand i admire your "life's too short to watch things i don't like" on the other i think you are missing out by having incredibly harsh criteria for quitting a show on its first episode. To each their own, i often could do with being harsher on dropping shows or even starting them.

The show has occasionally jokes about other shows but i don't recall them ever breaking the 4th wall. And you are missing out on "What I want are adult characters (or emotionally mature, late teen characters at worst) doing something interesting; whether that's solving a mystery, going on adventures, saving the world, or whatever; in a world thatsticks to its own recognizable rules, whatever those may be" which it has in abundance. Unless you class a joke that references something they haven't seen as breaking their own rules?

in season 2 they drop a "one does not simply walk into Mordor" line but they replace Mordor with their destination. So it's not like the characters are aware of LOTR or even need to be in order for the joke to work.

I definitely recall a pause, while the characters absorb what was said, before moving on as if nothing happened. I'd consider that fourth wall-breaking; albeit a more minor type. And I wouldn't necessarily call that a show breaking its own rule, I just found it extremely unfunny and wasn't interested in a show that highlights in episode one that'll be that way; especially since I wasn't truly hooked by what had come before it anyway.

I'll admit to having harsh standards, but there's too much media out there for me to stick with things I don't like; and I do that with all entertainment, not just anime. I'm legendary among my friends for the number of lengthy book series that I dropped off at before the final book because I got bored/frustrated/annoyed with the direction the series had gone. I do try to usually give tv shows at least two episodes, especially live action stuff where the pilots can be especially different from the rest of the show, and I just did that with Gurren Lagan; but some shows just turn me off too much.

I came across two other shows on Hulu that I'm interested in giving a shot, after the other recs I've gotten, even though they seem to focus on younger characters than I'd prefer, anyone have thoughts on Kingdom or on Highschool of the Dead?

 

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I re-watched Planetes recently and I'm now looking for similar SF anime. 

Too bad that it is difficult to find decent anime that is not full of fanservice. 

Most of the stuff available on Netflix Austria is not after my taste.

I enjoyed Knights of Sidonia even if the fanservice was a bit too much sometimes. 

One Punch Man was great too. 

I tried Gantz and... wtf. 

It is too bad as anime seems to be the perfect medium for SF/Fantasy stories. 

 

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1 hour ago, The Grey Wolf said:

I follow the "three episode rule". Having said that, I agree with @sifth. Heaven's Feel is pretty dark.

I’d argue the second film is more dark than the first. There was some pretty messed up stuff in that one. Still not sure if I loved it or hated it, but I suppose the rude jerk who sat behind me hurt my experience somewhat; well that and the horrible subtitles. I’ll have to watch it on my own one day and see how different the experience is.

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7 hours ago, sifth said:

I don't know, those first two Heaven's Feel movies are pretty insanely dark as well. I just hope they land things with the third one. 

Well, dark doesn't necessarily mean good, it is equally likely to just end up the edgy kind of immature.

Also, I would be careful to recommend Heaven's Feel to anyone, given how the first movie skips all scenes in common with the Unlimited Bladeworks Anime, making it more than a little odd for anyone who hasn't watched that, highlighting the pacing problems it already has anyway.

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32 minutes ago, The Grey Wolf said:

@sifth

Sorry to hear the crowd you were in wasn't too nice. Why do you think the subtitles were bad?

Yea, I had one of those jerks who liked to make awkward jokes at every chance he got during the films more graphic moments; which there are many. To be fair I do this a lot when I watch movies with friends, but never in public. The things you do with friends don’t always fly with strangers

The subs just seemed like the type you’d expect more from fan subbers than you would a professional job. They translated several things literary from Japanese which never works right, IMO. This is why I love the translations for the Persona games so much. They change things just enough to sound like the characters are saying things in natural English. Also they used yellow subs, which I always hate; I know this is weird, but I always hate when subs are that color.

On top of all that the sound was very low. My Japanese isn’t the best, but even had I attempted to just ignore the subs it was very difficult to hear the characters actual dialogue; for action scenes in particular.

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15 minutes ago, Toth said:

Well, dark doesn't necessarily mean good, it is equally likely to just end up the edgy kind of immature.

Also, I would be careful to recommend Heaven's Feel to anyone, given how the first movie skips all scenes in common with the Unlimited Bladeworks Anime, making it more than a little odd for anyone who hasn't watched that, highlighting the pacing problems it already has anyway.

All you really need to do is watch the first 2 or 3 episodes of UBW and you’re set for Heaven’s Feel. All it really skips over is the introduction episodes, which were already animated twice.

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35 minutes ago, sifth said:

All you really need to do is watch the first 2 or 3 episodes of UBW and you’re set for Heaven’s Feel. All it really skips over is the introduction episodes, which were already animated twice.

Yeah, but who exactly does that? Who watches 3 episodes of a different show just to understand a movie? It is quite clear that the movies were made with viewers knowing UBW in mind. Not to say that Heaven's Feel on its own makes you wonder why so many important looking characters get brutally slaughtered just to have them out of the way. Which, to be fair, is an issue inherited from its VN roots that annoys me to no end.

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Posted (edited)

@sifth

That sucks. My experience was much better, especially with regards to sound volume and subtitle color.

Edited by The Grey Wolf

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28 minutes ago, Toth said:

Yeah, but who exactly does that? Who watches 3 episodes of a different show just to understand a movie? It is quite clear that the movies were made with viewers knowing UBW in mind. Not to say that Heaven's Feel on its own makes you wonder why so many important looking characters get brutally slaughtered just to have them out of the way. Which, to be fair, is an issue inherited from its VN roots that annoys me to no end.

It's funny, but I always wondered if there was a way for an anime to honor all 3 routes, by simply using Archer as the key.

For example, animate the Fate route in it's entirety, but reveal at the end that Shiro becomes Archer. Then have Archer regret being made a servant of the world and have the UBW route play out. Then have Archer again feel that he didn't change enough of the time line and ask for one more chance and then have the Heaven's Feel Route play out. I know it would spoil the whole Archer reveal early, but I feel it's the only way you could honestly tell a story that honors all 3 routes.

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