Jump to content

Putin: War Criminal; Trump alliance


Ser Scot A Ellison

Recommended Posts

After the coup d'état in Ukraine, the new government wanted to take back Sevastopol naval base from Russia (his closest base to the mediterranean) so he did what he did because he lost a big ally to the Nato (Ukraine) and he didn't want to lose his base.

Cold war as usual between Nato and Russia, same thing in Syria but at least he's tryring to end the war by capturing Aleppo

Regional and global interests business as usual, the war of allies between Russia and Nato will never end, George W. Bush and his gang killed one million iraqis for oil

Russia and Nato members, they are all criminals and the humans are the victims

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, baxus said:

I once again feel the need to point out that those things, as horrible as they are, make Putin a dictator, not a war criminal.

He's not a good guy, by any stretch of imagination. Unfortunately, there are some who are not that different from him who avoid such scrutiny. THAT is the real problem in my book.

I was directly addressing your contention that there was little difference between Putin and US presidents. There are major differences.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Weeping Sore said:

@baxus

The 2nd war in Chechnya makes Putin a war criminal.

Once again, for people in the cheap seats, I'm not trying to defend Putin.

I'm just saying that labeling people war criminals based on their side in the conflict and not on their actions will get us nowhere. Trust me on that, I've been seeing that for decades now with every side in Balkan wars denying war crimes from people on their side and pointing out war crimes from everyone else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

I was directly addressing your contention that there was little difference between Putin and US presidents. There are major differences.

In internal affairs, definitely yes.

In international affairs, definitely not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Many former Soviet and Warsaw Pact states seem to have a definite preference.

True, but you have a similar situation in South and Central America regarding U.S. economic interference. It's not quite the same thing as military occupation, but I think it's fair to say that it's comparable and every bit as insidious in its' own way.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

True, but you have a similar situation in South and Central America regarding U.S. economic interference. It's not quite the same thing as military occupation, but I think it's fair to say that it's comparable and every bit as insidious in its' own way.  

I don't deny that the US has interfered mightily in the affairs of Central and South American countries, but are there specific policies or actions you've got in mind? There's obviously the sanctions against Cuba and Venezuela, but is there bad stuff beyond those? Especially in the last 20 years or so?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

I don't deny that the US has interfered mightily in the affairs of Central and South American countries, but are there specific policies or actions you've got in mind? There's obviously the sanctions against Cuba and Venezuela, but is there bad stuff beyond those? Especially in the last 20 years or so?

Have you read Confessions of an Economic Hit Man? Prepare to get really sick to your stomach.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_of_an_Economic_Hit_Man

 

/Highly recommended, but also extremely depressing. Check it out, then hate me for bringing it up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Have you read Confessions of an Economic Hit Man? Prepare to get really sick to your stomach.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_of_an_Economic_Hit_Man

 

/Highly recommended, but also extremely depressing. Check it out, then hate me for bringing it up.

I'm well familiar with the practice of US corporations exerting influence on US foreign policy to allow them to exploit markets and abuse Third World countries -- though my parents, who were involved in government in one of those countries, have fonder memories of USAID than the book's characterization. That strikes me as a fairly universal thing through history though -- American companies replacing the British and Dutch East India Companies as the state-backed economic enslaver. 

How much is that still going on? I'm asking for real, because I think other countries are starting to exert more power over their own economies, though their gains tend to accrete in the super-wealthy just like has happened in the US.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

I don't deny that the US has interfered mightily in the affairs of Central and South American countries, but are there specific policies or actions you've got in mind? There's obviously the sanctions against Cuba and Venezuela, but is there bad stuff beyond those? Especially in the last 20 years or so?

https://www.thenation.com/article/how-hillary-clinton-militarized-us-policy-in-honduras/

https://theintercept.com/2016/04/12/death-squads-are-back-in-honduras-honduran-activists-tell-congress/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

I'm well familiar with the practice of US corporations exerting influence on US foreign policy to allow them to exploit markets and abuse Third World countries -- though my parents, who were involved in government in one of those countries, have fonder memories of USAID than the book's characterization. That strikes me as a fairly universal thing through history though -- American companies replacing the British and Dutch East India Companies as the state-backed economic enslaver. 

How much is that still going on? I'm asking for real, because I think other countries are starting to exert more power over their own economies, though their gains tend to accrete in the super-wealthy just like has happened in the US.

Dude you have to read that book if you haven't. So much of that "aid" was accompanied by economic chains that have yet to be broken.

I can't honestly  say how much of it is still going on today, but it seems to me (if the book is to be believed) that these programs were so far reaching that their effects are still being felt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with the points Baxus and Manhole have brought up. Basically just because Putin is a shitheel is No reason for any American to gloat when our foreign policy has been every bit as despicable for generations. Russia has as much claim to be defending Syria as the U.S. I would argue more, since it is the U.S. that has been fomenting revolution and siding with terrorists to overthrow the democratically elected Assad.

Assad is killing terrorists while the U.S. has been fueling and prolonging the civil war. Putins a shitheel, but the U.S. is also up to no good in the middle east either. This is not a white hat vs black hat proxie conflict. Both sides in Syria have rogue players and there are no innocents. However Assad is the legal government and Putin has chosen that side openly as Russia has been an allie of Syria for decades. The U.S. has partnered with the devil just to oppose Assad and Putin. Its like funding the Mujahadeen, to oppose the Kremlin, all over again. It didnt work in Afghanistan and it isnt working in Syria all these decades later. Its a failure to learn past lessons and the lack of imagination to keep ourselves from rinse and repeat policy.

Putins a shitheel so is U.S. foreign policy imo.

Also very interesting what Baxus is saying regarding Kosovo, that bombing was not part of a UN mandate, and Manhole is correct to bring up Central and South America where U.S. naked aggression with coups, assasinations and CIA histrionics has been every bit as deplorable, illegal and ugly as anything Putin( le Shitheel) is doing. There should be Zero finger pointing coming from the U.S. We are simply without any moral authority to judge others until we stop committing the same damn attrocities globally.

I will also repost the link for "The Confessions of Economic Hit Man" because at least one poster is already trying to feign ignorance of any U.S. crimes. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_of_an_Economic_Hit_Man

Just sickening that this behavior gets whitewashed while people finger point other bad actors.  Either recognize all the bad actors or admit a hopeless bias.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

 

I will also repost the link for "The Confessions of Economic Hit Man" because at least one poster is already trying to feign ignorance of any U.S. crimes. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_of_an_Economic_Hit_Man

Just sickening that this behavior gets whitewashed while people finger point other bad actors.  Either recognize all the bad actors or admit a hopeless bias.

 Just have to reemphasize how important this book is, IMO. Extremely depressing read, but really revealing. I thought I had some comprehensive idea of just how bad our history of Manifest Destiny and Monroe Doctrine bullshit was, but this book was a revelation. In it's own way, our policies in Central and South America were every bit as sickening as the Native American Genocide. The big difference here is this shit was being implemented in the 60's, 70's and 80's. Truly disturbing shit. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

I agree with the points Baxus and Manhole have brought up. Basically just because Putin is a shitheel is No reason for any American to gloat when our foreign policy has been every bit as despicable for generations. Russia has as much claim to be defending Syria as the U.S. I would argue more, since it is the U.S. that has been fomenting revolution and siding with terrorists to overthrow the democratically elected Assad.

Assad is killing terrorists while the U.S. has been fueling and prolonging the civil war. Putins a shitheel, but the U.S. is also up to no good in the middle east either. This is not a white hat vs black hat proxie conflict. Both sides in Syria have rogue players and there are no innocents. However Assad is the legal government and Putin has chosen that side openly as Russia has been an allie of Syria for decades. The U.S. has partnered with the devil just to oppose Assad and Putin. Its like funding the Mujahadeen, to oppose the Kremlin, all over again. It didnt work in Afghanistan and it isnt working in Syria all these decades later. Its a failure to learn past lessons and the lack of imagination to keep ourselves from rinse and repeat policy.

 

I will also repost the link for "The Confessions of Economic Hit Man" because at least one poster is already trying to feign ignorance of any U.S. crimes. 

Assad is democratically elected? Wow. Easy to win elections when there's no opposing candidate allowed and your father spent decades grooming you to succeed him.

Assad fights terrorists? He allowed ISIS to grow in his borders because he found them useful, and he did the same with al Qaeda. He may be killing some terrorists along the way, but he's killing thousands and thousands of his own people. People who supposedly voted for him!

This defense of Assad is grotesque.

Finally, I hope you're not accusing me of being the poster trying to deny America's foreign policy crimes just because I asked for information relevant to the last twenty years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Assassin fights terrorists? He allowed ISIS to grow in his borders because he found them useful, and he did the same with al Qaeda. He may be killing some terrorists along the way, but he's killing thousands and thousands of his own people. People who supposedly voted for him!

Isis is financed by Usa, Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar, saying Alassad created ISIS is like saying Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, Mosul is occupied by isis for two years : no one give a damn, Raqqa is occupied for three years : no one give a damn, no one believes that Operation Inherent Resolve killed 27,000 isis members, it's pure propaganda, Isis is alive and well

And let's not forget the one million iraqis killed by George W. Bush, they are all killers

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Middle East is a baroque and Byzantine mess, double-dealing and triple-crosses abound. And all the things you say about ISIS funding and their occupation of Mosul and Raqqa can be true while Assad was winking away their growth within his borders. You can criticize the Saudis and Turkey and the Gulf states and US interference all you want, and I'll agree with you, but I was frankly shocked to see DWS defending Assad as a democratically elected fighter of terrorism.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

 Just have to reemphasize how important this book is, IMO. Extremely depressing read, but really revealing. I thought I had some comprehensive idea of just how bad our history of Manifest Destiny and Monroe Doctrine bullshit was, but this book was a revelation. In it's own way, our policies in Central and South America were every bit as sickening as the Native American Genocide. The big difference here is this shit was being implemented in the 60's, 70's and 80's. Truly disturbing shit. 

Yes and thank you once again for posting that link. Perkins has gave a lot of great interviews since writing that book. I saw him on "Democracy Now". This is interesting, here he is on CSPAN- 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...