Does Jon suspect that he is not Ned’s son?

[WarriorWitch]

When I first I read the books ages ago I got the feeling that Jon had a few suspicions about Ned that he is trying to ignore and I wondered is one of the reasons Jon is resisting his magical side because its trying to tell him something that he doesn’t want to admit. Obviously I don’t mean that Jon knows about R+L=J, that would defeat the purpose of Jon’s mystery but I am currently re reading the series and that same nagging suspicion came back. So I thought I’d post this along with a few clues and see if anyone takes the bait.

 

“No one. The castle is always empty.” He had never told anyone of the dream, and he did not understand why he was telling Sam now, yet somehow it felt good to talk of it. “Even the ravens are gone from the rookery, and the stables are full of bones. That always scares me. I start to run then, throwing open doors, climbing the tower three steps at a time, screaming for someone, for anyone. And then I find myself in front of the door to the crypts. It’s black inside, and I can see the steps spiraling down. Somehow I know I have to go down there, but I don’t want to. I’m afraid of what might be waiting for me. The old Kings of Winter are down there, sitting on their thrones with stone wolves at their feet and iron swords across their laps, but it’s not them I’m afraid of. I scream that I’m not a Stark, that this isn’t my place, but it’s no good, I have to go anyway, so I start down, feeling the walls as I descend, with no torch to light the way. It gets darker and darker, until I want to scream.” He stopped, frowning, embarrassed. “That’s when I always wake.”

Everybody knows about this particular quote, it’s when Jon is telling Sam about his Crypt nightmare. Most people believe there is something in the crypts that will prove that Jon is Rhaegar and Lyanna’s son.  I think that when he finally does venture into the crypts there will be more of a magical knowledge then finding something literal.

We know that the when the Stark Kings and ancestors die their spirits reside in the Winterfell crypts, Ned Stark brought his sisters body back from the Tower of Joy and buried her in the Crypts. Jon has also said that he used dreams of his mum.

He knew nothing of his mother; Eddard Stark would not talk of her. Yet he dreamed of her at times, so often that he could almost see her face. In his dreams, she was beautiful, and highborn, and her eyes were kind.

I believe that Lyanna has been trying to talk to Jon for a while now and I suspect that one of the things that he will have to confront will be Lyanna’s ghost.

Jon dreaming about Lyanna parallels Bran’s dream about Ned crying in the Crypts. 

“I dreamed about the crow again last night. The one with three eyes. He flew into my bedchamber and told me to come with him, so I did. We went down to the crypts. Father was there, and we talked. He was sad.”

Rickon also has a dream about Ned and Bran finds him in the Crypts. Baby Rickon is obviously a lot braver then Jon, he knows that his father is now in the Crypts and he wanders in for a visit (like any three year old with prophetic dreams would) So why is Jon so afraid of the Crypts? This is a man who at age fifteen kills his first un dead monster, but he is afraid of going too far into the Crypts?! Well he would be if it meant confirming that he is not Ned Stark son. Both Bran and Rickon were pulled to the Crypts after their father’s death, Jon was being pulled to the Crypts long before Ned’s death and the only one that could be pulling him over to the Crypts is his mother.

Ok so now on to the less than magical side of Jon. We all know that Jon is observant, Bran mentions it in his first chapter.  

Jon’s eyes were a grey so dark they seemed almost black, but there was little they did not see.

During the Winterfell feast we pretty much just get a chapter of Jon observing the royal family and his first impressions of them and with the exception of Jamie he doesn’t exactly paint any of them in a favourable light.

She was as beautiful as men said. A jeweled tiara gleamed amidst her long golden hair, its emeralds a perfect match for the green of her eyes. His father helped her up the steps to the dais and led her to her seat, but the queen never so much as looked at him. Even at fourteen, Jon could see through her smile. Next had come King Robert himself, with Lady Stark on his arm. The king was a great disappointment to Jon. His father had talked of him often: the peerless Robert Baratheon, demon of the Trident, the fiercest warrior of the realm, a giant among princes. Jon saw only a fat man, red-faced under his beard, sweating through his silks. He walked like a man half in his cups.

 

Close behind came Robb, in grey wool trimmed with white, the Stark colors. He had the Princess Myrcella on his arm. She was a wisp of a girl, not quite eight, her hair a cascade of golden curls under a jeweled net. Jon noticed the shy looks she gave Robb as they passed between the tables and the timid way she smiled at him. He decided she was insipid. Robb didn’t even have the sense to realize how stupid she was; he was grinning like a fool.

 

 Sansa, two years older, drew the crown prince, Joffrey Baratheon. He was twelve, younger than Jon or Robb, but taller than either, to Jon’s vast dismay. Prince Joffrey had his sister’s hair and his mother’s deep green eyes. A thick tangle of blond curls dripped down past his golden choker and high velvet collar. Sansa looked radiant as she walked beside him, but Jon did not like Joffrey’s pouty lips or the bored, disdainful way he looked at Winterfell’s Great Hall. He was more interested in the pair that came behind him: the queen’s brothers, the Lannisters of Casterly Rock. The Lion and the Imp; there was no mistaking which was which. Ser Jaime Lannister was twin to Queen Cersei; tall and golden, with flashing green eyes and a smile that cut like a knife. He wore crimson silk, high black boots, a black satin cloak. On the breast of his tunic, the lion of his House was embroidered in gold thread, roaring its defiance. They called him the Lion of Lannister to his face and whispered “Kingslayer” behind his back.

Jon found it hard to look away from him. This is what a king should look like, he thought to himself as the man passed.

Then he saw the other one, waddling along half-hidden by his brother’s side. Tyrion Lannister, the youngest of Lord Tywin’s brood and by far the ugliest. All that the gods had given to Cersei and Jaime, they had denied Tyrion. He was a dwarf, half his brother’s height, struggling to keep pace on stunted legs. His head was too large for his body, with a brute’s squashed-in face beneath a swollen shelf of brow. One green eye and one black one peered out from under a lank fall of hair so blond it seemed white. Jon watched him with fascination.

(Not to derail my own post but blue highlighted, secret Targaryen anyone)

 

Jon hesitated. He wanted to say that Lord Eddard would never dishonor himself, not even for love, yet inside a small sly voice whispered, He fathered a bastard, where was the honor in that? And your mother, what of his duty to her, he will not even say her name. “He would do whatever was right,” he said... ringingly, to make up for his hesitation. “No matter what.”

When I talk about Jon’s conversation with Aemon with my friends they usually say that Jon sees himself as a black stain on his father’s honour but in this particular conversation I think he is more confused than anything else. When he is thinking about his father’s honour he reminds himself that his father sired a bastard and he does seem confused by it. He knows that Ned is honourable and defends him from everyone that calls him a traitor but the fact that Ned had a bastard just confuses the h**l out of him

Obviously there isn’t enough information in the books to say that he absolutely does suspect but I do think that there is enough to say that he is ignoring his suspicions.  

Well that’s about it. Do you think that Jon suspects anything or have I been waiting for ‘The Winds of Winter’ for so long that I’ve started making up things to keep myself entertained?

 

[Chris Mormont]

I do not believe Jon suspects. He would not even consider Ned lying about anything, especially not something which would be a stain on his honor and cause problems between Ned and Cat.

 

[John Suburbs]

All of this is working on Jon's subconscious, and if the rest of your analysis is correct -- that these are ghosts from the past (or the future) pulling him into the crypts -- that still wouldn't be evidence that Jon actually suspects anything. If he does, it never came up in any of his subsequent POVs.

But I also find it interesting that after Bran and Rickon had their crypt dreams, Hodor suddenly didn't want to go down there anymore.

[The Fattest Leech]

Once Jon has his wolf dream where he also talks to Bran in the weirwood, things start to go all wonky for Jon and what he thinks he knows. His whole arc is learning more to do better. He thinks he knows the wildlings, but after he rides with them he realizes they are just like everyone else. He thinks he knows different history and legends, but finds he doesn't. He thinks people are crazy for calling him a warg, but realizes in ADWD that they are correct (but too late).

Jon doesn't think he is Rhaegar's son because Ned is not his dad, or that he is anyone royal, or even who his mother is... but the urge to know is growing in him because he feels like something is off.

• He raised Longclaw over his head, both hands tight around the grip. One cut, with all my weight behind it. He could give her a quick clean death, at least. He was his father's son. Wasn't he? Wasn't he?

 

[Bonkers]

No, but not all of us believe that he ISN'T Ned's son.  I think Jon is very much like Ned in all his actions, even subconsciously.  He is very much a Stark to me.

(Personally, I had R+L=J in my head on the first read of the first book less than 1/4 of the way through.  I don't believe personally that GRRM would be that obvious.  He feeds it, but I doubt it's truth)

[Lord Wraith]

8 hours ago, Bonkers said:

No, but not all of us believe that he ISN'T Ned's son.  I think Jon is very much like Ned in all his actions, even subconsciously.  He is very much a Stark to me.

(Personally, I had R+L=J in my head on the first read of the first book less than 1/4 of the way through.  I don't believe personally that GRRM would be that obvious.  He feeds it, but I doubt it's truth)

Ned + Ashara =Jon