Weirstuff

[YOVMO]

So a while back I had a fascination with Weirwood doors which has taken a back seat to my thinking about Harps and Crypts. That said, I wonder what you guys think about something. There are several weirwood doors in Planetos and always in very odd and significant places.

Weirwood Doors include

Tobho Mott's workshop, The door of the house of black and white the door to the chamber of the undying in the house of the undying (all of these being a mix of ebon and weirwood), the black gate at the nightfort (oddly named as it is made of Weirwood). Other things made of weirwood are the rafters at both Harrenhall and Whitewalls, the moon door and high seat of the Vale of Arryn, Val's pin with a face carved in it, Morna's mask, the staff of the high septon and the staff of Galon Whitestaff. Brynden rivers uses a weirwood bow and horn, the kingsguard table

What I am unsure of is to what degree the COTF, and greenseers have access to dismembered weirwood. I find the weirwood doors to be incredibly interesting. Think of the strangeness. The House of Black and White, Tobho Mott (who is Qohorik) and The House of the undying. Three essentially essosi places where the entry is blocked by a door of weirwood and ebony despite no evidence that there are Weirwoods in Essos at all.

 

So what do you guys think? Just nice wood that people who can afford like to use or is there any remnant power of the children in that wood despite it being upended from the roots. It could be very much like when a warg dies they can skin change into another animal and live on? Maybe?

 

[Blackfyre Bastard]

I have wondered myself this, since Weirwoods appear to be scarce even in the North; the only place left to timber this tree being Beyond the Wall.

How much trade there's actually between the Free Folks and the merchants seeking all this wood? Is the NW the one doing the trade?

Do the CotF know about this and tolerate it, or are they wroth about it?

[The Fattest Leech]

I have always wondered if Weirwood was "active" after it had been cut and used for other items. I have asked this question before and mostly got "no" type answers... but still, it feels like something has to be there or else it would not be mentioned all over Planetos as you pointed out.

Ned's bed being weirwood got me thinking about this a while back, especially while reading Theon's chapters that take place in that bed and what he dreams and feels and what becomes of him. I cannot find this exact info to confirm this, so I am retracting this statement.

Morna is a warrior witch with a big mask. I tend to think (and have a list of reasons why) that Val is following in Morna's and Dalla's foot steps to be a healer/woods witch and the reason why Val has a pin in maybe she is still in training? That is is short explanation and just a thought.

To me, the doors seems like passing judgement in most cases. If you decide to enter, and depending on which door you use, you will chose your fate as such. In most cases. The moondoor at the Eyrie seems like another way to sacrifice, or feed the tree, a person who has been judged guilty as they do/did in the north. Weirwoods trees don't grow there, and there is an Andal mix, but there is an element to the old gods in that area as well- bronze and runes and such.

Anyway, these are just my quick answers because I have to hop off for a bit, but I am eager to see what other's have to say.

[The Fattest Leech]

4 minutes ago, Blackfyre Bastard said:

I have wondered myself this, since Weirwoods appear to be scarce even in the North; the only place left to timber this tree being Beyond the Wall.

How much trade there's actually between the Free Folks and the merchants seeking all this wood? Is the NW the one doing the trade?

Do the CotF know about this and tolerate it, or are they wroth about it?

Good questions and I wonder if the Faith of Seven have anything to do with it? Some timing kinda lines up with this. Just a thought.

[YOVMO]

23 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

but still, it feels like something has to be there or else it would not be mentioned all over Planetos as you pointed out.

I agree. I understand the sentiment of people who say no as it seems that the roots of the tree are really what is important. However, it doesn't really have to be a total binary situation. There is just weirwood in too many strange places. The fact that the black gate is weirwood (and magical) and that there are weirwood doors in places of importance and of magic (faceless men, tobho and his VS abilities, Undying ones) makes me feel that at the very least werwood can be imbued with magic in a way that oak cannot and at most may actually retain its connection to the weirnet. 

[The Fattest Leech]

Only have another quick minute I'm stealing, but I googled the web and found this map. It should look better on an actual large computer screen instead of my phone, but wanted to share it here either way. 

http://weirwood-net.com/weirwood-map

[Seams]

3 hours ago, YOVMO said:

Tobho Mott's workshop, The door of the house of black and white the door to the chamber of the undying in the house of the undying (all of these being a mix of ebon and weirwood), the black gate at the nightfort (oddly named as it is made of Weirwood). Other things made of weirwood are the rafters at both Harrenhall and Whitewalls, the moon door and high seat of the Vale of Arryn, Val's pin with a face carved in it, Morna's mask, the staff of the high septon and the staff of Galon Whitestaff. Brynden rivers uses a weirwood bow and horn, the kingsguard table.

To sort out the meaning of the weirwood doors, maybe it helps to take a step back and think about doors in general.

I have guessed that doors are connected to shields because of the scene where Brienne sees the beautifully painted door and hires the door painter to repaint her shield. The landscape Brienne sees on the door is an imaginary, ideal landscape with a castle in it - almost like a fairy tale landscape. So there might be a hint here about stories and doors. The shield of the Knight of the Laughing Tree might be considered alongside the items made of weirwood - even if it's not made of weirwood, it might fall within that door symbolism.

But I also think doors are supposed to be like books - the instructions to Dany to always take the door to the right sound like someone being told how to turn the pages of a book. The book connection also seemed to fit because the House of the Undying, as a repository of both history and fiction, as well as the way it burns, seemed parallel to the function and fate of the Winterfell library. Bran eating the weirwood paste and becoming connected to the worldwide weirwood seems consistent with the idea of Bran suddenly having access to a library's worth of knowledge. Jaime is transformed in stages by Brienne's influence and the loss of his kingslayer hand, but the White Book also plays a role in his transformation. Tyrion is the bookish guy in the family, but Jaime takes this book very seriously when he becomes Lord Commander. Does he set it on the weirwood table when he updates it?

Quaithe's red mask, however, probably represents the red door of home that Dany longs to rediscover. Doors are a big category of symbols, so it's not surprising that there might be many kinds of doors with different symbolic purposes. Weirwood won't explain the function or meaning of all doors.

The weirwood rafters might be a hint about the original weirwood tree from which the rafters were made - birds nest in trees and birds nest in rafters, right? At Joffrey's wedding feast, the birds from the pie fly up into the rafters. The Moon Door at the Eyrie is also for flying, although I think it might also be a door to let snow in. But we have the famous, "Dark wings, dark words" proverb that starts with birds but circles back to the link to written words and books again.

So one guess is that weirwood items might hold important stories, tales, words - they signal books, book covers, maybe book shelves. Maybe the stories they hold will always date back to the First Men or the CotF or other ancient things, before the Andal civilization brought about the contemporary idea of books. The pairing of weirwood items with ebony items might be a symbol for words on a page - black and white.

[Wizz-The-Smith]

2 hours ago, YOVMO said:

What I am unsure of is to what degree the COTF, and greenseers have access to dismembered weirwood. I find the weirwood doors to be incredibly interesting. Think of the strangeness. The House of Black and White, Tobho Mott (who is Qohorik) and The House of the undying. Three essentially essosi places where the entry is blocked by a door of weirwood and ebony despite no evidence that there are Weirwoods in Essos at all.

Hi YOVMO. 

Cool thread, I have a few ideas about the dismembered weirwood, some of my research has stumbled across such possibilities.  You mention Harrenhal in your OP, but there is also the Bower, a First Man castle built entirely from weirwood.  House Greenfield raised this castle in the Age of Heroes, and since I know you've read my new essay, you can appreciate me linking this to a house looking to use the magic of this fabled tree to their advantage in those magic days.  The 'Green' in the name does nothing to dispel this idea either.

While searching for clues of Bran and Bloodraven in the wind/creatures/weirwoods on the Bran re-read thread, I came across a piece of jewellery that Val wears.  It was a pin carved from weirwood with a face on it, I couldn't help but think there is a possibility these eyes have the same ability as the trees.  However, there is also a one-eyed horse, Mormont's raven and Ghost present in that scene, so plenty of options.  Nevertheless, an option worthy of consideration.

You mention the doors of The House of Black and White, there are also the chairs within the temple.  They too are weirwood and ebony, but more importantly    they have faces carved into them.  Could they also be potential access for the old gods/BR and Bran?  I'll pop back in soon, but I like the idea of weirwood holding magic significance even after being felled.        

[cgrav]

Don't forget Nagga's Ribs in the Iron Islands are almost certainly weirwood, turned to stone.

I'd speculate that weirwoods have to be connected to their root network to be active as portals. They are known to slowly fossilize (ossify?) after being cut down. The transformation must mean something and have some consequence, else we get into this argument about how tiny or old a splinter of weirwood can still be accessed.

[YOVMO]

First let me say that I love all you guys. the amount of geeking out possible on this board is just spectacular. I am so happy for it.

 

4 hours ago, Blackfyre Bastard said:

Do the CotF know about this and tolerate it, or are they wroth about it?

It would stand to reason that they would be very wroth. This is a very good question. However, if, as I suspect, Weirwood has certain properties which allow it to retain magic in ways other woods can't AND if weirwood can be harvested from a tree without actually felling the tree then it is possible (full disclosure I think this is part of what is going on) that the COTF are spreading Weiritems around the world as part of an overall stratagem in whatever plan it is they are working on.

 

2 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Only have another quick minute I'm stealing, but I googled the web and found this map. It should look better on an actual large computer screen instead of my phone, but wanted to share it here either way. 

http://weirwood-net.com/weirwood-map

Thank you for this map. Maybe I missed it, but I think it leaves off the Isle of Faces. I have a printer that prints the big paper at work. I am going to see if I can print this up and fill in the details more ... for instance where there are descriptions of the faces of weirwoods I can write them in and where there are objects I can jot down what they are and any other significant tidbits. If I knew more about computers I would remake that map in an interactive way that would allow you to drill down for details, quotes etc but that just isn't something I know how to do.

54 minutes ago, Seams said:

have guessed that doors are connected to shields because of the scene where Brienne sees the beautifully painted door and hires the door painter to repaint her shield.

I remember reading your thread on shields and doors and you were very convincing and thorough in your arguments. 

 

55 minutes ago, Seams said:

Does he set it on the weirwood table when he updates it?

I believe he most certainly does.

 

56 minutes ago, Seams said:

birds nest in trees and birds nest in rafters, right?

This is a solid point and instructive though I am not quite sure what it is instructive of. I mean the three eyed raven is in a Weirthorne as actually ravens are in weirrafters. Keep poking around this. I think there is some meat on this bone.

 

19 minutes ago, Wizz-The-Smith said:

Hi YOVMO. 

HI WIZZ!

19 minutes ago, Wizz-The-Smith said:

Cool thread, I have a few ideas about the dismembered weirwood, some of my research has stumbled across such possibilities.  You mention Harrenhal in your OP, but there is also the Bower, a First Man castle built entirely from weirwood. 
House Greenfield raised this castle in the Age of Heroes, and since I know you've read my new essay, you can appreciate me linking this to a house looking to use the magic of this fabled tree to their advantage in those magic days.  The 'Green' in the name does nothing to dispel this idea either.

Yes. Bower is also def there. I tossed out my references when I made the OP without the help of any of my notes. And yes, the looking to use the magic is very much present. Bloodraven and Osha both use Weirwood arrows which is a very physical and direct manifestation of this. However, Garth Greenhand asked some unknown favor from the children and was rebuffed which lead to Brandon of the Bloody Blade to start killing off the COTF and, if my conjecture is correct, his son Bran the Builder to make a pact with the COTF to use their magic to end the long night (at a very steep price!) We can also look at Mern III Gardener (Mern the Madling) who sought help from, and showered with treasure, a woods witch who said she knew how to bring an army of the dead forth to throw against the invading Andals. A lot to unpack here.

19 minutes ago, Wizz-The-Smith said:

While searching for clues of Bran and Bloodraven in the wind/creatures/weirwoods on the Bran re-read thread, I came across a piece of jewellery that Val wears.  It was a pin carved from weirwood with a face on it,

I have long believed that that Weirpin with the face carved into it is a very powerful item which can be capable of any of a million different things including, but not limited to, allowing the COTF to spy on everything it sees, allowing COTF or Greenseers to control Val or even Mance or, and especially this, act as a glamor. Follow me for a little down the rabbit hole. When Jon treats with Mance he sees Val. "Val looked at him with pale grey eyes. "He always climbed too fast." However, when Val returns from the haunted forest "Her breath was white as well ... but her eyes were blue" Just what kind of Queen is this Val. I have oft wondered if it is possible that she is the Night's King's corpse queen who is being glamored with the magic of that pin and is working for the COTF. Just think of the description that grrm gives to the others "The Others are not dead. They are strange, beautiful… think, oh… the Sidhe made of ice, something like that… a different sort of life… inhuman, elegant, dangerous." If that isn't a spot on description for Val then I don't know what to think. I am not saying I really fully believe this, but I do fully believe that there is something very important with that pin and very strange about how Val's eyes change colors and not to totally rule this or something of the ilk out.

19 minutes ago, Wizz-The-Smith said:

I couldn't help but think there is a possibility these eyes have the same ability as the trees.  However, there is also a one-eyed horse, Mormont's raven and Ghost present in that scene, so plenty of options.  Nevertheless, an option worthy of consideration.

I loved that symbolism of the one-eyed horse, the raven and ghost (who, like a wierwood is white with red eyes). I really refuse to believe that that pin is something she picked up at Kay Jewelers because she thought it looked nifty

19 minutes ago, Wizz-The-Smith said:

You mention the doors of The House of Black and White, there are also the chairs within the temple.  They too are weirwood and ebony, but more importantly    they have faces carved into them. 

 

Yes indeed. And further, I believe that the FM have been aligned with the COTF all along. I feel that they used the COTF magic to cause Hardhome and as a practice run for the Doom of Valyria. The FM start off as the slaves of the dragon lords. They are, definitionally, antagonistic to fire. This aligns them firmly with ice. It looks to me that the starting players of team ice are COTF, Bloodraven, Faceless Men, the Others and their army of wights (with Bran as newly scouted talent). I think the secret servants that Arya glimpses in the HoBW are in the process of taking down the wall and killing them some dragons. It may very well be that the faces on those chairs are so much more than decoration but that they are active participants in sending messages to and from the assassins guild to the COTF

19 minutes ago, Wizz-The-Smith said:

 

Could they also be potential access for the old gods/BR and Bran?  I'll pop back in soon, but I like the idea of weirwood holding magic significance even after being felled.        

The idea that wood can be sentient is in some ways absolutely fantastic. If I may be permitted to cross the streams for a moment, it is often times that the wand chooses the wizard. Olivander knew. he "talked about wands as if they had feelings"

[The Fattest Leech]

@YOVMO I am just now back at my computer where I can see the map better. Yeah, it needs some updating and details added in. I wish I knew how to do that, but I am not good with computery stuff either

Hmm. sounds like you need to get to work updating the map and maybe I'll keep looking

Adding: Isle of Faces is on there, but so close to Harrenhal that it is hard to distinguish. The map needs better details, or a number system on the map to a key that tells what object where.

[Impbread]

5 hours ago, YOVMO said:

So a while back I had a fascination with Weirwood doors which has taken a back seat to my thinking about Harps and Crypts. That said, I wonder what you guys think about something. There are several weirwood doors in Planetos and always in very odd and significant places.

Weirwood Doors include

Tobho Mott's workshop, The door of the house of black and white the door to the chamber of the undying in the house of the undying (all of these being a mix of ebon and weirwood), the black gate at the nightfort (oddly named as it is made of Weirwood). Other things made of weirwood are the rafters at both Harrenhall and Whitewalls, the moon door and high seat of the Vale of Arryn, Val's pin with a face carved in it, Morna's mask, the staff of the high septon and the staff of Galon Whitestaff. Brynden rivers uses a weirwood bow and horn, the kingsguard table

What I am unsure of is to what degree the COTF, and greenseers have access to dismembered weirwood. I find the weirwood doors to be incredibly interesting. Think of the strangeness. The House of Black and White, Tobho Mott (who is Qohorik) and The House of the undying. Three essentially essosi places where the entry is blocked by a door of weirwood and ebony despite no evidence that there are Weirwoods in Essos at all.

 

So what do you guys think? Just nice wood that people who can afford like to use or is there any remnant power of the children in that wood despite it being upended from the roots. It could be very much like when a warg dies they can skin change into another animal and live on? Maybe?

 

Neds bed was also made of weirwood. Theon had some very disturbing dreams while he slept on that bed. Perhaps the old gods were sending those dreams.

[YOVMO]

Just now, Impbread said:

Neds bed was also made of weirwood. Theon had some very disturbing dreams while he slept on that bed. Perhaps the old gods were sending those dreams.

Yes. There is no way that those dreams weren't sent through that bed

[The Fattest Leech]

Not sure of this is the right thread for this, but it is weirwood related (if you squint)

George has often said this rendition of the Iron Throne is the one he likes best because it fits his intended vision the closest of all versions.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/File:Marc_Simonetti_Bran_theironthroneJoff.jpg

Has anyone else ever noticed how it kinda looks like a malformed, inverted weirwood both in symmetry, color and (obviously) material? There is a blood connection between them as well, one kills and one drinks, etc, and both seem to "sprout" from their rooted locations.

It just seems that those who aspire to sit this throne, a symbol of conquer and oppression, that they are moving away from what is "right", which is closer to what the weirwood stands for (atleast as far as what is natural to Westeros).

[YOVMO]

27 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Not sure of this is the right thread for this, but it is weirwood related (if you squint)

George has often said this rendition of the Iron Throne is the one he likes best because it fits his intended vision the closest of all versions.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/File:Marc_Simonetti_Bran_theironthroneJoff.jpg

Has anyone else ever noticed how it kinda looks like a malformed, inverted weirwood both in symmetry, color and (obviously) material? There is a blood connection between them as well, one kills and one drinks, etc, and both seem to "sprout" from their rooted locations.

It just seems that those who aspire to sit this throne, a symbol of conquer and oppression, that they are moving away from what is "right", which is closer to what the weirwood stands for (atleast as far as what is natural to Westeros).

I can absolutely see that. I am not sure what it would mean though. Somethings never sat right with me with the iron throne. Like, why use fire from balerion to melt it down? I mean after a shot of dragon fire would they even resemble swords? And how did they form it. Was the black dread brought into a smith on the street of steel and asked to randomly puff on metal? Also, why are the swords still sharp? It has been 300 years? Are people sharpening them? If so, why? I mean, I get the idea of not being comfortable on a throne. But that is a reason to have a steel chair with no cushions. You would think aegon would have at least dulled some of the blades. I mean, people have freaking died. The chair has never made any sense to me.

[The Fattest Leech]

9 minutes ago, YOVMO said:

I can absolutely see that. I am not sure what it would mean though.

That may be the point <

9 minutes ago, YOVMO said:

Somethings never sat right with me with the iron throne.

Ba-dum-dumm <

9 minutes ago, YOVMO said:

 

Like, why use fire from balerion to melt it down? I mean after a shot of dragon fire would they even resemble swords? And how did they form it. Was the black dread brought into a smith on the street of steel and asked to randomly puff on metal? Also, why are the swords still sharp? It has been 300 years? Are people sharpening them? If so, why? I mean, I get the idea of not being comfortable on a throne. But that is a reason to have a steel chair with no cushions. You would think aegon would have at least dulled some of the blades. I mean, people have freaking died. The chair has never made any sense to me.

I agree with all of this. These things have always triggered the architect/design training in me. In reality it just wouldn't work. But I guess in fantasyland it does? But it still bugs me. And yeah, no cushions!!! I guess hemorrhoids don't exist in ASOIAF?

I guess I think the juxtaposition between the natural of the weirwood and the grotesque of the IT could also be a senior level amount of symbolism between the lesser objects made of contrasting woods, or just the idea of focusing on the "wrong" thing... which leads me to still wonder if the Iron Throne is "dead" while the weirwood objects are still "alive", or, active.

[YOVMO]

1 minute ago, The Fattest Leech said:

That may be the point <

Ba-dum-dumm <

I was sitting with crossed fingers

1 minute ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I agree with all of this. These things have always triggered the architect/design training in me. In reality it just wouldn't work. But I guess in fantasyland it does? But it still bugs me. And yeah, no cushions!!! I guess hemorrhoids don't exist in ASOIAF?

I can almost get the no cushions. A king should not sit easy. It should be uncomfortable. Not practical, but there is some poetry to it at least. On the other hand, if you are creating a chair that you will sit in for life and then an entire dynasty of your heirs will sit you might want to have someone sand down the lethally sharp blades poking out of it. There is austerity and then there is self flagellation and whatever the Targaryen's were, they don't seem masochistic.

1 minute ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I guess I think the juxtaposition between the natural of the weirwood and the grotesque of the IT could also be a senior level amount of symbolism between the lesser objects made of contrasting woods

This is probably closer to the truth.

1 minute ago, The Fattest Leech said:

, or just the idea of focusing on the "wrong" thing... which leads me to still wonder if the Iron Throne is "dead" while the weirwood objects are still "alive", or, active.

This all depends. If the story of the black dread's fire melting down the swords of the vanquished foes is more myth then reality (which it really has to be...I mean, come on....do the logistics on making this throne with dragon fire which will turn steel to liquid very quickly) then the real question is how was it that the throne was ACTUALLY made.

 

I will point one thing out. The COTF used blades of obsidian and the first men used blades of bronze. The Andals brought steel. So why the "Iron Throne" I can see what you are thinking....."YOVMO," you say "iron ore is what is in steel so the steel swords made the iron throne" and yes, yes, you are right.....however is there any place where actual iron swords are used....not steel swords made of iron ore but actual iron swords? Why yes! There are iron swords in our story. And those iron swords are in the crypts of winterfell. Now only if they were somehow related to a dynasty of kings and had some kind of strange and inhuman power imbued in them............

[Darkstream]

2 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

 

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/File:Marc_Simonetti_Bran_theironthroneJof

Has anyone else ever noticed how it kinda looks like a malformed, inverted weirwood both in symmetry, color and (obviously) material?  

Damn it, I feel like a dog chasing his tail. I really have to learn how to turn off the auto rotate on my phone.

1 hour ago, YOVMO said:

This all depends. If the story of the black dread's fire melting down the swords of the vanquished foes is more myth then reality (which it really has to be...I mean, come on....do the logistics on making this throne with dragon fire which will turn steel to liquid very quickly) then the real question is how was it that the throne was ACTUALLY made.

Heh, I always pictured some scared shitless squire stretching out his arm, with his back turned, trying to heat up the swords in Balerion's fire, and then quickly trying to shove them into the throne...all while trying not to become a roasted squire-kabob.

[YOVMO]

8 minutes ago, Darkstream said:

Damn it, I feel like a dog chasing his tail. I really have to learn how to turn off the auto rotate on my phone.

Heh, I always pictured some scared shitless squire stretching out his arm, with his back turned, trying to heat up the swords in Balerion's fire, and then quickly trying to shove them into the throne...all while trying not to become a roasted squire-kabob.

Yeah, I am prettt sure that It would have been better to work on Maegor's construction grew then in Aegon's smithy. Why stop at the throne. Need some forks? Just get an iron ignot and go wake up the black dread 

[The Fattest Leech]

1 hour ago, YOVMO said:

This all depends. If the story of the black dread's fire melting down the swords of the vanquished foes is more myth then reality (which it really has to be...I mean, come on....do the logistics on making this throne with dragon fire which will turn steel to liquid very quickly) then the real question is how was it that the throne was ACTUALLY made.

 

Ugh! If you want to take all the magic out of it, well, the phrasing that it was forged in dragon fire is probably a play on words for the fact it took real dragon fire to submit all the lords of the exisiting Westeros to Aegon... and then Tobho Mott's grandpappy stepped in to melt the swords together.

7 minutes ago, Darkstream said:

Damn it, I feel like a dog chasing his tail. I really have to learn how to turn off the auto rotate on my phone.

 Are you in a "dischord" about things???

7 minutes ago, Darkstream said:

Heh, I always pictured some scared shitless squire stretching out his arm, with his back turned, trying to heat up the swords in Balerion's fire, and then quickly trying to shove them into the throne...all while trying not to become a roasted squire-kabob.

Ahahaa, me too. Kinda like roasting marshmallows over a very large, very hot flame. You can't get too close or you'll burn your eyelids off, but you still need just the right amount of crisp on the tiny sugarball at the end of your flammable stick!