chrisdaw Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 Grey king is simple Euron foreshadowing. Nagga a combination of Dany and Drogon. Grey king making his throne within Nagga's ribs turned to stone is foreshadowing Euron second lifing Drogon and his influence turning Drogon to stone. So the stone ribs literally foreshadow stone dragon ribs, and Euron existing, ruling from inside them. Euron will have greyscale, hence why he turns Drogon to stone and why the grey king is the grey king, and why he gets greyer and greyer. Euron will also turn Drogon part kraken, hence why Nagga is a sea dragon. Euron will have to trick Dany (stormborn) in order to second life Drogon, hence why the grey king tricked the Storm God into giving him fire. Euron's influence in Drogon will extinguish his fire, hence why the grey king made a thrall of Nagga's living fire. Dany will come, die, second life stone Drogon, and turn him now mostly her back into a living fire breathing dragon again, hence waking the dragon from the stone. The stone ribs of Nagga are representing the same thing as this. Quote Wings shadowed her fever dreams. "You don't want to wake the dragon, do you?" She was walking down a long hall beneath high stone arches. She could not look behind her, must not look behind her. There was a door ahead of her, tiny with distance, but even from afar, she saw that it was painted red. She walked faster, and her bare feet left bloody footprints on the stone. The long hall is the inside of the dragon turned to stone, the arches it's ribs. The red door is where its living fire should be. Note how she destroys the stone, with her blood. The grey king turns the dragon to stone (well technically the drowned god does on his behalf). Euron turns drogon to stone with his greyscale blood. Dany wakes drogon from stone with her Targ blood of the dragon. Quote Ghosts lined the hallway, dressed in the faded raiment of kings. In their hands were swords of pale fire. They had hair of silver and hair of gold and hair of platinum white, and their eyes were opal and amethyst, tourmaline and jade. "Faster," they cried, "faster, faster." She raced, her feet melting the stone wherever they touched. "Faster!" the ghosts cried as one, and she screamed and threw herself forward. A great knife of pain ripped down her back, and she felt her skin tear open and smelled the stench of burning blood and saw the shadow of wings. And Daenerys Targaryen flew. "… wake the dragon …" The door loomed before her, the red door, so close, so close, the hall was a blur around her, the cold receding behind. And now the stone was gone and she flew across the Dothraki sea, high and higher, the green rippling beneath, and all that lived and breathed fled in terror from the shadow of her wings. She could smell home, she could see it, there, just beyond that door, green fields and great stone houses and arms to keep her warm, there. She threw open the door. Simples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hoare Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 59 minutes ago, chrisdaw said: Grey king is simple Euron foreshadowing. Nagga a combination of Dany and Drogon. Grey king making his throne within Nagga's ribs turned to stone is foreshadowing Euron second lifing Drogon and his influence turning Drogon to stone. So the stone ribs literally foreshadow stone dragon ribs, and Euron existing, ruling from inside them. But then the stone ribs shouldn't have been black? Dragon bones are black, not white as described in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 6 hours ago, The Hoare said: But then the stone ribs shouldn't have been black? Dragon bones are black, not white as described in the books. The dragon's bones were turned into stone, so goes the story anyway, and that would be why they're grey. But I'm neither advocating the stone arches that exist on the Iron Islands are or are not literally a set of dragon's ribs. What they really are I think is neither here nor there, like if the grey king really existed, just that they are being used by GRRM to foreshadow the literal stone ribs of a dragon like the grey king is being used to foreshadow Euron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo of House Cartel Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 Just a thought, Euron claims to have thrown his egg into the sea "in one of his black moods" Could he be trying to hatch a sea dragon? Nagga was the first and greatest, but what came later? Were the sea dragons at one point as numerous as traditional flying dragons? And what wiped them out? If flying dragons can be returned to the world by way of sorcery then I wonder the possibilities surrounding our aquatic variations. As time goes by I'm drawn again and again to the thought that more dragons will come into play by the end of the books. Granted, I'm aware that any new hatchlings born in the next two books may not have sufficient time to grow by the time GRRM finishes his tale, but would this same logic apply to a sea dragon? It is said that a dragons growth is determined by diet, so wouldn't a sea dragon under the care of a sea faring pirate have an abundance of food? If Euron were to say, feed the young beast several boatloads of Redwyn carcasses, couldn't this expidite the dragons growth? While I'm confident we will see a kraken in Winds, I wouldn't be surprised if Euron also had his eyes on other creatures of the deep. If Euron is indeed connected to Bloodraven, I wonder if he ever asked about ancient Ironborn history. If the OP theory is correct, then one could assume that some knowledge of the Grey King would be stored in the weirwood net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted February 5, 2017 Author Share Posted February 5, 2017 6 hours ago, chrisdaw said: The dragon's bones were turned into stone, so goes the story anyway, and that would be why they're grey. But I'm neither advocating the stone arches that exist on the Iron Islands are or are not literally a set of dragon's ribs. What they really are I think is neither here nor there, like if the grey king really existed, just that they are being used by GRRM to foreshadow the literal stone ribs of a dragon like the grey king is being used to foreshadow Euron. The ribs are not gray. They are described as white and pale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted July 7, 2017 Author Share Posted July 7, 2017 Compare this... Quote As they made their way back to the steps, the empty eyeholes of the skins upon the walls seemed to follow her. For a moment she could almost see their lips moving, whispering dark sweet secrets to one another in words too faint to hear. The Ugly Little Girl, Dance 64 To this... Quote The sound was just the sea, echoing endlessly through the caverns beneath the castle, rising and falling with each wave. It did sound like whispering, though, and for a moment she could almost see the heads, sitting on their shelves and muttering to one another. Brienne IV, Feast 20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenous reader Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 55 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said: Compare this... Quote As they made their way back to the steps, the empty eyeholes of the skins upon the walls seemed to follow her. For a moment she could almost see their lips moving, whispering dark sweet secrets to one another in words too faint to hear. The Ugly Little Girl, Dance 64 To this... Quote The sound was just the sea, echoing endlessly through the caverns beneath the castle, rising and falling with each wave. It did sound like whispering, though, and for a moment she could almost see the heads, sitting on their shelves and muttering to one another. Brienne IV, Feast 20 There is a pun on 'green sea' with 'green see' which I've identified... Quote A Storm of Swords - Davos I His hand reached for his throat, fumbling for the small leather pouch he always wore about his neck. Inside he kept the bones of the four fingers his king had shortened for him, on the day he made Davos a knight. My luck. His shortened fingers patted at his chest, groping, finding nothing. The pouch was gone, and the fingerbones with them. Stannis could never understand why he'd kept the bones. "To remind me of my king's justice," he whispered through cracked lips. But now they were gone. The fire took my luck as well as my sons. In his dreams the river was still aflame and demons danced upon the waters with fiery whips in their hands, while men blackened and burned beneath the lash. "Mother, have mercy," Davos prayed. "Save me, gentle Mother, save us all. My luck is gone, and my sons." He was weeping freely now, salt tears streaming down his cheeks. "The fire took it all . . . the fire . . ." Perhaps it was only wind blowing against the rock, or the sound of the sea on the shore, but for an instant Davos Seaworth heard her answer. "You called the fire," she whispered, her voice as faint as the sound of waves in a seashell, sad and soft. "You burned us . . . burned us . . . burrrrned usssssss." "It was her!" Davos cried. "Mother, don't forsake us. It was her who burned you, the red woman, Melisandre, her!" He could see her; the heart-shaped face, the red eyes, the long coppery hair, her red gowns moving like flames as she walked, a swirl of silk and satin. She had come from Asshai in the east, she had come to Dragonstone and won Selsye and her queen's men for her alien god, and then the king, Stannis Baratheon himself. He had gone so far as to put the fiery heart on his banners, the fiery heart of R'hllor, Lord of Light and God of Flame and Shadow. At Melisandre's urging, he had dragged the Seven from their sept at Dragonstone and burned them before the castle gates, and later he had burned the godswood at Storm's End as well, even the heart tree, a huge white weirwood with a solemn face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowfood's Daughter Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 On 2/4/2017 at 9:25 AM, chrisdaw said: Grey king is simple Euron foreshadowing. Nagga a combination of Dany and Drogon. Grey king making his throne within Nagga's ribs turned to stone is foreshadowing Euron second lifing Drogon and his influence turning Drogon to stone. So the stone ribs literally foreshadow stone dragon ribs, and Euron existing, ruling from inside them. Euron will have greyscale, hence why he turns Drogon to stone and why the grey king is the grey king, and why he gets greyer and greyer. Euron will also turn Drogon part kraken, hence why Nagga is a sea dragon. Euron will have to trick Dany (stormborn) in order to second life Drogon, hence why the grey king tricked the Storm God into giving him fire. Euron's influence in Drogon will extinguish his fire, hence why the grey king made a thrall of Nagga's living fire. Dany will come, die, second life stone Drogon, and turn him now mostly her back into a living fire breathing dragon again, hence waking the dragon from the stone. The stone ribs of Nagga are representing the same thing as this. The long hall is the inside of the dragon turned to stone, the arches it's ribs. The red door is where its living fire should be. Note how she destroys the stone, with her blood. The grey king turns the dragon to stone (well technically the drowned god does on his behalf). Euron turns drogon to stone with his greyscale blood. Dany wakes drogon from stone with her Targ blood of the dragon. Simples.n Nagga's ribs are weirwood. The arches are because it is the overturned hull of a ship. Nagga is a shipwreck. On 2/4/2017 at 11:16 PM, Lost Melnibonean said: The ribs are not gray. They are described as white and pale. On 2/4/2017 at 10:26 AM, The Hoare said: But then the stone ribs shouldn't have been black? Dragon bones are black, not white as described in the books. Yep!! He had passed the bones of a dragon, he swore, so immense that he had ridden his horse through its great black jaws. Other than that, he had seen nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted July 27, 2017 Author Share Posted July 27, 2017 As my little four-year-old girl would say, "Oh, my M-G!" (Is that too cute, or what?) So, I am re-reading The Forsaken, Winds for probably the third or maybe the fourth time, and I am noticing that we get a description of the image of the Drowned God... Spoiler Quote “That which is dead cannot die,” said Aeron fiercely. “For he who has tasted death once need never fear again. He was drowned, but he came forth stronger than before, with steel and fire.” “Will you do the same, brother?” Euron asked. “I think not. I think if I drowned you, you’ll stay drowned. All gods are lies, but yours is laughable. A pale white thing in the likeness of a man, his limbs broken and swollen and his hair flipping in the water while fish nibble at his face. What fool would worship that?” The Forsaken, Winds If that's not a submerged greenseer, I don't know what is. I can't believe I didn't notice that before! So, when Euron hears the waves talking to him, he is listening to the Old Gods, and we all know who speaks for the old gods: the last greenseer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 6 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said: As my little four-year-old girl would say, "Oh, my M-G!" (Is that too cute, or what?) So, I am re-reading The Forsaken, Winds for probably the third or maybe the fourth time, and I am noticing that we get a description of the image of the Drowned God... Reveal hidden contents The Forsaken, Winds If that's not a submerged greenseer, I don't know what is. I can't believe I didn't notice that before! So, when Euron hears the waves talking to him, he is listening to the Old Gods, and we all know who speaks for the old gods: the last greenseer. The wind that shakes the barely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted July 27, 2017 Author Share Posted July 27, 2017 14 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said: The wind that shakes the barely. Eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 3 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said: Eh? I'm on my phone. Let me get home for more, but basically the wind is the common denominator for most godly aspects. Wind in the sails is one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 On 7/7/2017 at 11:16 PM, Lost Melnibonean said: Compare this... The Ugly Little Girl, Dance 64 To this... Brienne IV, Feast 20 "Whispering" is a chthonic word. It's alraedy a word used in relation to the WF crypts in the scene when Ned and Robert visit it. Lyanna "whispers". The stone kings with swords in their laps "whisper". The dead and their ghosts "whisper". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenous reader Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 5 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said: As my little four-year-old girl would say, "Oh, my M-G!" (Is that too cute, or what?) So, I am re-reading The Forsaken, Winds for probably the third or maybe the fourth time, and I am noticing that we get a description of the image of the Drowned God... Reveal hidden contents The Forsaken, Winds If that's not a submerged greenseer, I don't know what is. I can't believe I didn't notice that before! So, when Euron hears the waves talking to him, he is listening to the Old Gods, and we all know who speaks for the old gods: the last greenseer. Indeed. The language of leviathan (the rumbling of the waves) = the true tongue = the song of the earth (the rustling of the leaves). The 'sea' = the 'see'. 11 minutes ago, sweetsunray said: "Whispering" is a chthonic word. It's alraedy a word used in relation to the WF crypts in the scene when Ned and Robert visit it. Lyanna "whispers". The stone kings with swords in their laps "whisper". The dead and their ghosts "whisper". Definitely. It's a 'chthonic' word and GRRM-code for 'greenseer'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted August 1, 2017 Author Share Posted August 1, 2017 Oh, go fuck a duck. Dig this... Quote On the Isle of Toads can be found an ancient idol, a greasy black stone crudely carved into the semblance of a gigantic toad of malignant aspect, some forty feet high. The people of this isle are believed by some to be descended from those who carved the Toad Stone, for there is an unpleasant fishlike aspect to their faces, and many have webbed hands and feet. If so, they are the sole surviving remnant of this forgotten race. Beyond the Sunset Kingdom, TWOIAF That corroborates Maester Theron's fanciful possibilty that the Seastone Chair might be the work of a queer, misshapen race of half men sired by creatures of the salt seas upon human women, Deep Ones, or squishers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted September 29, 2017 Author Share Posted September 29, 2017 I posted this upthread... Quote Hmm... Quote The Mother in their songs is not our Mother, but Mother Rhoyne, whose waters nourished them from the dawn of days." "I'd heard the Rhoynar had some turtle god," said Ser Arys. "The Old Man of the River is a lesser god," said Garin. "He was born from Mother River too, and fought the Crab King to win dominion over all who dwell beneath the flowing waters." The Mother in their songs is not our Mother, but Mother Rhoyne, whose waters nourished them from the dawn of days." "I'd heard the Rhoynar had some turtle god," said Ser Arys. "The Old Man of the River is a lesser god," said Garin. "He was born from Mother River too, and fought the Crab King to win dominion over all who dwell beneath the flowing waters." The Queenmaker, Feast 21 Quote "This is Ny Sar, where the Mother gathers in her Wild Daughter, Noyne," said Yandry, "but she will not reach her widest point until she meets her other daughters. At Dagger Lake the Qhoyne comes rushing in, the Darkling Daughter, full of gold and amber from the Axe and pine-cones from the Forest of Qohor. South of there the Mother meets Lhorulu, the Smiling Daughter from the Golden Fields. Where they join once stood Chroyane, the festival city, where the streets were made of water and the houses made of gold. Then south and east again for long leagues, until at last comes creeping in Selhoru, the Shy Daughter who hides her course in reeds and writhes. There Mother Rhoyne waxes so wide that a man upon a boat in the center of the stream cannot see a shore to either side. You shall see, my little friend." I shall, the dwarf was thinking, when he spied a rippling ahead not six yards from the boat. He was about to point it out to Lemore when it came to the surface with a wash of water that rocked the Shy Maid sideways. It was another turtle, a horned turtle of enormous size, its dark green shell mottled with brown and overgrown with water moss and crusty black river molluscs. It raised its head and bellowed, a deep-throated thrumming roar louder than any warhorn that Tyrion had ever heard. "We are blessed," Ysilla was crying loudly, as tears streamed down her face. "We are blessed, we are blessed." Duck was hooting, and Young Griff too. Haldon came out on deck to learn the cause of the commotion … but too late. The giant turtle had vanished below the water once again. "What was the cause of all that noise?" the Halfmaester asked. "A turtle," said Tyrion. "A turtle bigger than this boat." "It was him, " cried Yandry. "The Old Man of the River." And why not? Tyrion grinned. Gods and wonders always appear, to attend the birth of kings. Tyrion IV, Dance 14 Quote "Enough, " said Griff. "Be quiet, all of you." Septa Lemore sucked in her breath. "What was that? " "Where?" Tyrion saw nothing but the fog. "Something moved. I saw the water rippling." "A turtle," the prince announced cheerfully. "A big 'snapper, that's all it was." He thrust his pole out ahead of them and pushed them away from a towering green obelisk. Tyrion V, Dance 18, Just before the weird rewind at the Bridge of Dream. I am thinking this is related. Doesn’t “the Old Man of the River” at least echo what we know of the last greenseer? And he apparently fought against the “Crab King,” who is the bad guy, right? Is there any suggestion that the Rhoynar sacrifice, or have sacrificed, to the Old Man of the River? ETA And consider the decor of the Rhoynish pole boats... Quote All but the poorest orphan boats were wonderfully carved and painted. This one was done in shades of green, with a curved wooden tiller shaped like a mermaid, and fish faces peering through her rails. The Queenmaker, Feast 21 Now consider this... Quote The countless tribes and clans of the free folk remain worshippers of the old gods of the First Men and children of the forest, the gods of the weirwood trees (some accounts say that there are those who worship different gods: dark gods beneath the ground in the Frostfangs, gods of snow and ice on the Frozen Shore, or crab gods at Storrold’s Point, but such has never been reliably confirmed). The Wall and Beyond, The Wildings, TWOIAF Note that Hardhome sits at the end of Storrold's Point. What do gods of snow and ice in the ASOIAF context sound like? And the Frostfangs was where Mance and company "opened half a hundred graves and let all those shades loose in the world." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted February 27, 2018 Author Share Posted February 27, 2018 Anothet hint at blood sacrifice to the old gods... Quote A bird called faintly in the distance, a high sharp trill that felt like an icy hand on Catelyn's neck. Another bird answered; a third, a fourth. She knew their call well enough, from her years at Winterfell. Snow shrikes. Sometimes you saw them in the deep of winter, when the godswood was white and still. They were northern birds. Catelyn X, Game 63 Quote Shrikes are known for their habit of catching insects and small vertebrates and impaling their bodies on thorns, the spikes on barbed-wire fences, or any available sharp point. This helps them to tear the flesh into smaller, more conveniently-sized fragments, and serves as a cache so that the shrike can return to the uneaten portions at a later time. Wkipedia, Shrike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus Snow Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 On 12/17/2016 at 10:39 PM, Lost Melnibonean said: Here's another feast of human flesh... Jaime III, Feast 27 Is there any relationship between Harrenhal and the old gods? Yes... Catelyn, Clash 7 Maybe that is the source of the curse of Harrenhal? And note that Jaime’s recollection of mad Lady Lothson was the cannibalism of Gregor’s men in Harrenhal, which indirectly led to Wyman's Frey pies. Harrenhal has many mysteries - the one that bugs me is why a castle built by the Ironborn has a Godswood and a Sept??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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