Arya's choices

[King Ragnar]

I know it's all hypothetical but if you were to be Arya and be granted the services of a FM for three kills, which names would you give them?

Remember this event took place during ACoK so you need to keep the situation at that moment in mind.

My ideal kills would be:

1. Tywin: Obviously, his host would scramble and fall without their supreme leader
    
2. Cersei: Without Cersei in KL influencing Joffrey, Tyrion could be raising his nephew and keep him in line with the help of his Council.
    
3.  For the last kill there are several, less urgent candidates like Joffrey (if you want a king who can be easier manipulated, for example Tommen), the Mountain (to avenge her friends and make the Lannisters lose one of their fiercest commanders) or Stannis Baratheon (Robb has 1 less competitor to deal with and maybe the Stormlanders would remember the Starks are good people)

[Curled Finger]

Not so easy to put myself in Arya's place, as she has truly seen some dark and terrible things on her way through the 3rd novel.  Knowing what comes 5 books in I have greater intel than Arya had.   And she's only a little girl who struck at 1) a person who hurt her and 2) a person who was a danger to her plan.  I get why she chose whom she chose.   But yes, bumping off the primary commander would certainly knock the Lannister forces back a step.  At 1st I agreed that Joffrey absolutely had to go, but considering what Joffrey would have done in Tywin's absence he would have self destructed anyway.  Joffrey is a wasted name.   Ditto for Cersei as Joffrey would have rendered her mostly harmless as a king in his own right.  (I doubt Tyrion would have had any control at all over Joffrey in the event of Tywin's demise--Tywin was the big threat, the one who kept them all in line.)   Stannis, Balon--any of the opposing commanders would have been suitable assassinations. 

I will take The Mountain second, as he too, poses a threat to Arya and hers.  

I'm saving my 3rd assassination for TWOW, where I expect the name to be Euron.    

[Nevets]

Tywin, Cersei, Joffrey.  You would have Tommen as King, probably with Kevan as Regent.  There is nobody left who has any reason to continue the war, which would mean a negotiated settlement with Robb would be a real possibility.  It would also leave Renly and Stannis out on a limb without a good reason to keep fighting (especially Renly).

[The Young_Lion]

With the relative omniscience available from the books, I would say Tywin (without him the lannisters will collapse, no Frey betrayal, etc. No need to kill more Lannisters), Stannis (no blood magic, destroys another threat), Dany (dragons could force the KitN to kneel again in the longer term). With Arya's own knowedge, however, .she should probably do Tywin, possibly Cersei and keep the remaining one/two in reserve.

[devilish]

Tywin, Joffrey, Tommen. That would leave the Lannister brood leaderless and with just a female heir whose residing in Martell hands. 

[ShadowCat Rivers]

If I am to be sincere, I'll have to admit that I wouldn't be as selfless as everyone else here, and I'd think of my own safety first. So, there goes Weese... next, if I were smart enough I'd pull the Weasel soup like Arya did but, being omniscient and all, I'd save the last death for Roose Bolton.

[devilish]

3 hours ago, ShadowCat Rivers said:

If I am to be sincere, I'll have to admit that I wouldn't be as selfless as everyone else here, and I'd think of my own safety first. So, there goes Weese... next, if I were smart enough I'd pull the Weasel soup like Arya did but, being omniscient and all, I'd save the last death for Roose Bolton.

TBH I feel that Jaqen would have saved Arya just the same. Think about it. We’ve got an elite assassin whose services would cost the equivalent of 2 armies of common sellswords (Littlefinger). Don’t you think that somebody like him would be able to avoid being captured by some idiot and risk being burnt alive? Also why on earth would he offer her such generous deal if not to impress her? Why does Arya the coin + give her a taste of his ‘magic’ by changing his face infront of her?

I believe that Jaqen was at the place/position he was meant to be and his role was  to lure Arya to the dark side. The girl was not only a Stark (ie she originated from a prestigious line of warriors) but she was also Syrio’s last pupil. In matter of fact she impressed the former first sword of Bravos enough for him to risk and probably lose his life for her. 

That might attract the attention of the faceless men who wanted to know more about this girl. Wars cost money and the crown was already heavily indebted with the iron bank.  The latter would want to make sure that the one sitting on the IT is keen to pay the debts. A warlikenoble woman with a shot to one of the most prestigeous seats in Westeros is a rare asset indeed. Surely she has a better grip on the Westerosi ways then most of the people of Essos + she can swiftly turn into a potential queen for somebody keen to pay that debt out.
 

[Greywater-Watch]

Tywin Lannister, Kevin Lannister, The Mountain:

All the Lannister troops at Harrenhal (and thus the Riverlands) would have been without lead and would never have been able to grap the situation and hurry in time to Kings Landing, and would have been crushed by doing something stupid (like a siege of Riverrun).

[a black swan]

29 minutes ago, devilish said:

TBH I feel that Jaqen would have saved Arya just the same. Think about it. We’ve got an elite assassin whose services would cost the equivalent of 2 armies of common sellswords (Littlefinger). Don’t you think that somebody like him would be able to avoid being captured by some idiot and risk being burnt alive? Also why on earth would he offer her such generous deal if not to impress her? Why does Arya the coin + give her a taste of his ‘magic’ by changing his face infront of her?

I believe that Jaqen was at the place/position he was meant to be and his role was  to lure Arya to the dark side. The girl was not only a Stark (ie she originated from a prestigious line of warriors) but she was also Syrio’s last pupil. In matter of fact she impressed the former first sword of Bravos enough for him to risk and probably lose his life for her. 

That might attract the attention of the faceless men who wanted to know more about this girl. Wars cost money and the crown was already heavily indebted with the iron bank.  The latter would want to make sure that the one sitting on the IT is keen to pay the debts. A warlikenoble woman with a shot to one of the most prestigeous seats in Westeros is a rare asset indeed. Surely she has a better grip on the Westerosi ways then most of the people of Essos + she can swiftly turn into a potential queen for somebody keen to pay that debt out.
 

The idea tha the FM/IB are two faces of the same coin could open up this plotline even more. The fact that the IB are in possession of an "Arya Stark" who is currently Lady of Winterfell and heir to the North. 

If the IB wanted not only their debts repaid but also a person on the inside, an asset indeed... Wow. The possibilities...

Lords & Princes have fallen and been replaced who have dealt with the Iron Bank for much less ... the Crown is in trouble. With the Mercy chapter already demonstrating the IB beginning to cut ties with the Crown. Their endgame could be very interesting... 

[ShadowCat Rivers]

1 hour ago, devilish said:

snip

Let's just say that I disagree with this reading of what the Faceless Men really are about, and that a couple of points that might leave space for such interpretations are, IMO, due to not-yet (in ACOK) fleshed out in detail, GRRM being "gardener" and all.

But let's leave it there, so that we don't get too much off topic.

[Philokles]

With knowledge of what was happening elsewhere and hindsight then Tywin, Cersei and Roose. If I were in Arya's shoes then I would swap Weese for Cersei from her actual choices.

[Chris Mormont]

If I were in Arya's place I probably would have still chosen Chiswyck first, because I would doubt whether Jaqen could or would do what he said, he was scum and he was on her list.  Second would have been the Mountain, he was on her list and was more of a direct threat to all around. And third, I would have done the same to free the Northerners.  

She doesn't know about Tywin and his importance, and she is a child, she doesn't have patience for Jaqen to find and fill Ceresi or Joff

[black_hart]

The Tickler

Amory Lorch

Gregor Clegane

 

Lorch + Clegane should compensate for letting Rorge + Biter loose.

[devilish]

14 hours ago, ShadowCat Rivers said:

Let's just say that I disagree with this reading of what the Faceless Men really are about, and that a couple of points that might leave space for such interpretations are, IMO, due to not-yet (in ACOK) fleshed out in detail, GRRM being "gardener" and all.

But let's leave it there, so that we don't get too much off topic.

I only suggesting that a person whose services are worth the  2 armies of common sellswords shouldn't end up caged and begging for the mercy of some girl to keep him alive. He wouldn't reveal his origins and the magic he can do to her either. There's something very fishy about it.

The timing is also suspicious. Jaqen reveals himself at Harrenhal at a time when Arya was in grave danger. If he revealed himself before Harrenhal then the girl would have probably chosen differently and wiser (Cersei, Joffrey and maybe...Tywin or Jamie?). Instead he only approached her when she was struggling to survive and would therefore choose people who could do her harm rather then the bigger fish (Joffrey?, Cersei? Tywin?). It seems that Jaqen wanted to impress the girl to join the dark side without upsetting the tide of war too much. That type of job (ie killing the big guys) seem not to be something any elite assassin group would want to do pro bono. Soon enough someone (Stannis? the Iron bank?, the Tyrells?) might want to pay good money for those people 

 

[Ser Scott Malkinson]

I'm not sure how soon she'd be able to kill anyone, but in utter and complete hindsight, the first name on my list would be Stannis if I was still on time. Stannis killing Renly is what lost Robb the war: Cat was able to negotiate an alliance with Renly, something which wouldn't be possible with Stannis. Renly had an army large enough to crush the Lannisters. If I was not on time, Stannis would still be on my list, simply because he is an enemy of Robb, and the severity of his cause probably dies with him. I'd name him last though, since I would count on him to help crush the Lannisters first.

I'm not sure if any other name would be necessary to win the war, but just to be sure, my second choice would be Tywin. As everyone else here mentioned, Tywin is the true power behind the Lannister faction, and getting rid of him would make for smoother sailing for Robb.

My third name would be Roose Bolton. He's trying to ruin Robb's campaign from the inside and clearly schemes to replace him as LP. If he wouldn't be a threat anymore now with the war over, I'd at least be removing a future threat. Getting rid of him before Ramsay's legitimized effectively ends the Bolton line as well. I don't think the Red Wedding would go through without Roose and Tywin's support either, so Robb doesn't need to fear Walder Frey anymore.

From the other names I've seen mentioned a lot, I don't think Joffrey or Cersei would be necessary to kill. There is no way they'll stand against Renly's army (or Stannis' with Tywin gone) and they won't be in a place of power at the end of the war, even if they're still alive. The Mountain also seems like a waste since anyone who doesn't need to keep the Lannisters happy would execute him for his warcrimes during RR in order to placate the Martells.

[ShadowCat Rivers]

4 hours ago, devilish said:

I only suggesting that a person whose services are worth the  2 armies of common sellswords shouldn't end up caged and begging for the mercy of some girl to keep him alive. He wouldn't reveal his origins and the magic he can do to her either. There's something very fishy about it.

The timing is also suspicious. Jaqen reveals himself at Harrenhal at a time when Arya was in grave danger. If he revealed himself before Harrenhal then the girl would have probably chosen differently and wiser (Cersei, Joffrey and maybe...Tywin or Jamie?). Instead he only approached her when she was struggling to survive and would therefore choose people who could do her harm rather then the bigger fish (Joffrey?, Cersei? Tywin?). It seems that Jaqen wanted to impress the girl to join the dark side without upsetting the tide of war too much. That type of job (ie killing the big guys) seem not to be something any elite assassin group would want to do pro bono. Soon enough someone (Stannis? the Iron bank?, the Tyrells?) might want to pay good money for those people 

 

Yes, I understood what you were suggesting and I disagree with it. Jaqen, in my view, was caught (under a false identity), unlikelky as it may be, but unlikely events do happen. His meeting with Arya was a chance meeting, only after observing her he thought she would make a nice recruit. But, anyway, this discussion is quite out of scope for this thread: even if he was under some special mission, Arya (or anyone in her place) wouldn't know about it, so it would not inform her decisions either way.

[1000th Lord Commander]

I can't exactly fault Arya too much for her choices, she's in a tough place in Harrenhal. And it is clever how she manipulates him with the third name into helping take over HH for the northmen.

Still, Lord Tywin would be the top of my list. If he falls, the Lannisters lose their most capable commander.

of the others, I would name Gregor Clegane. He's on her list, and would also make a decent target.

For the third, I would probably use her trick in naming Jaqen himself, but use him to remove anyone between me and Robb

[black_hart]

On 16.11.2016 at 11:42 AM, Ser Scott Malkinson said:

Cat was able to negotiate an alliance with Renly.

Uh, I can't seem to remember this happening. Stannis called Robb a traitor. Renly intended to make Cat watch Stannis die, the same message just less honesty. He was offering Robb a style of his choice, when submitting, nothing more.

[Davjos]

I cant remember if Renly had died at that point but I would have chosen Joffrey, Myrcella and Tommen. It cut's all ties between the Throne and the Lannisters and it makes Stannis the one true king even if you 'believed' Joffrey etc were Baratheons. Renly's only claim is the fact that his brother is claiming the crown by conquest, so he can do the same. If Tywin continues warring he is a rebel, no longer in service of the Throne. I wonder what would have happened. 

 

I know Tommen and Myrcella weren't on her list but she hated everything Lannister(Mountain, Hound, Paine, Joffrey, Cercei etc) so eliminating all their heirs is not even that unreasonable. 

[Ser Scott Malkinson]

11 hours ago, black_hart said:

Uh, I can't seem to remember this happening. Stannis called Robb a traitor. Renly intended to make Cat watch Stannis die, the same message just less honesty. He was offering Robb a style of his choice, when submitting, nothing more.

And that's exactly what Robb needed: a way to end the war without losing face with his bannermen. Robb must've known taking half of the Seven Kingdoms wouldn't fly with any king, and with only the armies of the North and the Riverlands in support he would never be able to win a war against any of them if the rest of the realm was united. This is the BEST he's gonna get, and Renly is the only guy he's gonna get it from.