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Rant and Rave without Repercussions [S7 Leaks Edition]


Little Scribe of Naath

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Well I think Olenna is still presented as the "Functional" leader of House Tyrell from Season 3 onwards, and they treat her as Tywin's equal, and I'm happy for that, albeit it's not an "official" position.  That's the real anomaly...possibly a holdover from the books, I don't know....that even in the TV show, it seems that the Tyrells are the only competent/strong female political figures.

Fun fact about Meera I just found out:  it turns out Clapton said Meera's leather outfit was one of the most difficult to make, given that the leather pieces were thin enough that they kept tearing.  Or at least I think she said Meera, I was a video interview.

Ah, news about Season 7 today:  turns out official renewal is stalled because they're debating whether Season 8 should have only six episodes (as originally thought) or more.

http://tvline.com/2017/01/14/game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-count-premiere-date/

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2 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

There's Meera, I hope they don't touch her!:wacko:

So do I. She has basicaly become my favourite character.

I doubt the part of her leaving Bran is true though. Ellie Kendrick's interview didn't sound like this would be happening.

1 hour ago, The Dragon Demands said:

Ah, news about Season 7 today:  turns out official renewal is stalled because they're debating whether Season 8 should have only six episodes (as originally thought) or more.

http://tvline.com/2017/01/14/game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-count-premiere-date/

Interesting. I'm totally fine with just six episodes :P

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5 minutes ago, Lady of Whisperers said:

So do I. She has basicaly become my favourite character.

I doubt the part of her leaving Bran is true though. Ellie Kendrick's interview didn't sound like this would be happening.

Interesting. I'm totally fine with just six episodes :P

Yes, her interview totally contradicts the leak.

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"Leaving" is a relative term; I mean it might just be "I'm heading back to the Neck to fetch my father Howland and help rally the crannogmen, I shall return soon".  Given that Littlefinger can seemingly teleport from the Neck to Mole's Town......

I mean maybe that's just where the season leaves her, saying "I'm heading to go rally the crannogmen", but not that she "leaves the show and doesn't return".  That might just be where her story pauses or something, to set up what she does when she returns in Season 7.  I'm not concerned. 

Well they said six at first....because as we saw with Dorne and Battle of the Bastards, D&D are bad at assessing the logistics of how long it will take to film things.  So now when they're sitting down looking at the scripts....yeah, told you so, this isn't "only six hours worth of story left". 

What..? No, I want more than six episodes.  It softens the blow.  All of D&D's failures have mostly been due to lack of screentime, i.e. Dorne.  Cramming it all into only six episodes would only lead to absurd condensations.  Lessens the damage to have more episodes.

Neither side expects a delay to filming or anything, though.   "Season 8 renewal on hold due to dispute over episode count" is just a headline to get peoples' attention :)

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BTW has any of you guys listened to this podcast: 

http://whydoyoucare.fm/s02e05

I found it quite interesting. Basically the two people on it expain why they don't like GoT that much anymore. 

First they explain why an adaptation should be compared to the books and why they disagree with the "why do you care it's just a TV show argument", but during the rest of the episode they basically judge the show on it's own merits and don't compare it to the books. One of the podcasters hasn't even read AFFC and ADWD, because she didn't like the first three books. They don't bring up anything that we don't already know, but they do a good job explaining why nothing makes any sense and why "things just happen, because the authors want them to happen". 

There were two or three minor things I disagreed with, but through 95% of the podcast I was basically like this :bowdown: :bowdown:

 

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3 minutes ago, The Dragon Demands said:

"Leaving" is a relative term; I mean it might just be "I'm heading back to the Neck to fetch my father Howland and help rally the crannogmen, I shall return soon".  Given that Littlefinger can seemingly teleport from the Neck to Mole's Town......

I mean maybe that's just where the season leaves her, saying "I'm heading to go rally the crannogmen", but not that she "leaves the show and doesn't return".  That might just be where her story pauses or something, to set up what she does when she returns in Season 7.  I'm not concerned. 
 

Yeah well. I definetely think they would bring her back for the finale in order to wrap things up. The leaker made it sound like she doesn't care about Bran anymore and I was quite doubtful about that part. 

 

5 minutes ago, The Dragon Demands said:


What..? No, I want more than six episodes.  It softens the blow.  All of D&D's failures have mostly been due to lack of screentime, i.e. Dorne.  Cramming it all into only six episodes would only lead to absurd condensations.  Lessens the damage to have more episodes.

Neither side expects a delay to filming or anything, though.   "Season 8 renewal on hold due to dispute over episode count" is just a headline to get peoples' attention :)

Well again I'm still doubtful about parts of the leaks, but if only half of the stuff of the leaks happens then Season 7 will have a lot of filler stuff. It sounds like it will be even more illogical then Season 6 and like they are focussing even more on "epic moments". I think if they had 10 episodes they woud just try to use more screentime for more battles or "shocking" stuff and not for human interaction or a logical story. Maybe they will prove me wrong, but I don't think they will use more screentime reasonably.  They haven't done so in the past. They would have had more screentime in previous seasons if they had just cut all the invented characters, all the unnecessary brothel scenes or all the stupid jokes. I see where you are coming from, but I don't think they would use the additional screentime wisely. 

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5 hours ago, Lady of Whisperers said:

Yeah well. I definetely think they would bring her back for the finale in order to wrap things up. The leaker made it sound like she doesn't care about Bran anymore and I was quite doubtful about that part. 

 

Well again I'm still doubtful about parts of the leaks, but if only half of the stuff of the leaks happens then Season 7 will have a lot of filler stuff. It sounds like it will be even more illogical then Season 6 and like they are focussing even more on "epic moments". I think if they had 10 episodes they woud just try to use more screentime for more battles or "shocking" stuff and not for human interaction or a logical story. Maybe they will prove me wrong, but I don't think they will use more screentime reasonably.  They haven't done so in the past. They would have had more screentime in previous seasons if they had just cut all the invented characters, all the unnecessary brothel scenes or all the stupid jokes. I see where you are coming from, but I don't think they would use the additional screentime wisely. 

But we're running out of battles to show at this point. We have to wrap up Cersei's inexplicable rise to power (one battle and a siege?) and then it's just Jon and Dany fighting the white walkers. How many mass conflicts are left? They can't have multiple battles against loads of zombies because that dissolves the tension of the final battle.

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It seems that now, when they have scrapped so much of the book intrigue and the series is running down to the end, they are still invested in an overdose of Cersei Lannister The Ruler, when they should have gotten rid of her a year sooner at least. No Great Northern Conspiracy, no Aegon, Arianne and a proper display of Dorne, no hostages taken at the Red Wedding to come into play etc. No Vale story. Now, it is filler, stupid suicidal wight hunt and other waste of time. Poorly planned and executed after Season 4 when it could be so much more. Emmy voting rules changed benefited them but the quality is down, the logic of characters motivations and actions are baffling and some how, the Lannisters have a super huge army that can take out The Reach, Dorne with a few Iron Born, lose a few in an ambush and yet have their enemies begging them to fight Along side of them. D&D&C are too damn invested in Lena Headey and House Lannister and it shows.

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54 minutes ago, TheCasualObserver said:

But we're running out of battles to show at this point. We have to wrap up Cersei's inexplicable rise to power (one battle and a siege?) and then it's just Jon and Dany fighting the white walkers. How many mass conflicts are left? They can't have multiple battles against loads of zombies because that dissolves the tension of the final battle.

I just have really really low expectations for Season 7 right now. 

I'm not convinced they would have used the screentime wisely. IIRC they used nearly 40 minutes for brothel scenes and similar stuff. in earlier seasons They could have done something better with it. That's enough for an entire storyline. Look at how much time they invested into their invented characters like Olly and Myranda that's screentime they could have used better. They spend lots of screentime on cockjokes and wasted nearly 4 minutes on the beetle speech. IMO they are not using their screentime wisely and putting lots of filler into the show. 

According to the leaks Season 7 will have at least 3 major action sequences (if I'm not mistaken) the naval battle, the attack on the Tarlys ans the wight hunt. 7 Episodes and more battles than in the seasons before. I guess if Season 7 had 10 Episodes they would have just included another battle between Cersei and Dany. Nevermind that Cersei should't have such a big army in the first place. Plus we would get more cock jokes, dozens of reminders that Varys is an eunuch and other filler. 

I guess if they make Season season 8 longer they would just postpone Cersei's death and included more scenes with her.  

Regarding the White Walkers: Well we had Hardhome and the Confrontation at the cave of the 3-eyed raven so far. Next season will have the wight hunt and I suspect that they would put at least one battle before the final battle in season 8. 

I can understand why you think the story would be better with more episodes, but I'm not really confident they would use the additional screentime wisely. 

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6 hours ago, Lady of Whisperers said:

I just have really really low expectations for Season 7 right now. 

I'm not convinced they would have used the screentime wisely. IIRC they used nearly 40 minutes for brothel scenes and similar stuff. in earlier seasons They could have done something better with it. That's enough for an entire storyline. Look at how much time they invested into their invented characters like Olly and Myranda that's screentime they could have used better. They spend lots of screentime on cockjokes and wasted nearly 4 minutes on the beetle speech. IMO they are not using their screentime wisely and putting lots of filler into the show. 

According to the leaks Season 7 will have at least 3 major action sequences (if I'm not mistaken) the naval battle, the attack on the Tarlys ans the wight hunt. 7 Episodes and more battles than in the seasons before. I guess if Season 7 had 10 Episodes they would have just included another battle between Cersei and Dany. Nevermind that Cersei should't have such a big army in the first place. Plus we would get more cock jokes, dozens of reminders that Varys is an eunuch and other filler. 

I guess if they make Season season 8 longer they would just postpone Cersei's death and included more scenes with her.  

Regarding the White Walkers: Well we had Hardhome and the Confrontation at the cave of the 3-eyed raven so far. Next season will have the wight hunt and I suspect that they would put at least one battle before the final battle in season 8. 

I can understand why you think the story would be better with more episodes, but I'm not really confident they would use the additional screentime wisely. 

Oh no, I don't think that at all. With virtually no published material to go off, I suspect season 7 and 8 will be padded in the extreme, just to reach a point of one big battle. If the showrunners were economical and didn't give a shit about the characters (which I happen to think is true) they could wrap this shit up in three episodes really.

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16 hours ago, Lady of Whisperers said:

BTW has any of you guys listened to this podcast: 

http://whydoyoucare.fm/s02e05

I found it quite interesting. Basically the two people on it expain why they don't like GoT that much anymore. 

First they explain why an adaptation should be compared to the books and why they disagree with the "why do you care it's just a TV show argument", but during the rest of the episode they basically judge the show on it's own merits and don't compare it to the books. One of the podcasters hasn't even read AFFC and ADWD, because she didn't like the first three books. They don't bring up anything that we don't already know, but they do a good job explaining why nothing makes any sense and why "things just happen, because the authors want them to happen". 

There were two or three minor things I disagreed with, but through 95% of the podcast I was basically like this :bowdown: :bowdown:

 

Hey I just listened to the podcast that you provided the link to and I thought it was excellent as it covers a lot of what we talk about in this thread! Actually some of it was so damn relevant I started to wonder if a regular contributor to this thread is one of the presenters, Will sounds a lot like a regular Ranter.

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I do worry that Season 7 leaks make it sound like there's a lot of "padding" in a season which is less than 10 episodes.  Which is bizarre.

That's the one thing I didn't get - all the other stuff is fair enough, given condensations (at least on paper)....but "we need to go on a wight hunt"?......when the Watch is already capturing straggler wights, and even sent a hand in a jar to KL - in the books of course?

But on the other hand.....something on the scale of.....

 

 

.......well, the leaks claiming that a dragon will die fighting the White Walkers.  How could something that big be purely an invention by D&D?  Leading me to wonder if it actually is based on SOMETHING from the next novel.

 

Well, in general, I get your point:  they made filler brother scenes in the prior 10 episode seasons, so why would we think they'd manage extra time any better?

.....well, because dear god, I think they *prioritized* those "filler" brothel scenes and such.  They weren't exactly filler when....we have Neill Marshall's comment that "an executive producer" told him "I represent the perv side of the audience, and I insist on putting in a full frontal nudity prostitute just because we can".  I mean, time was taken away from other things for that.  And compared to other stuff it wasn't the worst changeup (FOUR MINUTE beetle speech you bastards?!).......

So yeah there's every chance that with 8 episodes they'd just invent more wacky scenes, but....(sigh)....at least we'd proportionately get some more actual story in it.

 

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You know, it's going to be utterly hilarious when/if The Winds of Winter comes out, and the press will actually hype it up, even among non-readers, as this big event, and even the non-readers will see summaries of it.....and finally realize just how much D&D changed.  They'd never have been able to get away with all of this on a finished novel series; so many people gave them the benefit of the doubt of "maybe this is a condensation of something which happens in the next book".  

What if Stannis defeats Ramsay in the next book, and Theon executes him, eh?

And just HOW radically different Sansa's storyline is.  Or you know, DORNE.  

What if there isn't some giant meetup of all the major characters in the Dragon Pit? (though there might be)


Oh, the wiki will have fun cataloguing and broadcasting to the world every difference with the next novel.  We're keeping score.  

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8 hours ago, Neds Secret said:

Hey I just listened to the podcast that you provided the link to and I thought it was excellent as it covers a lot of what we talk about in this thread! Actually some of it was so damn relevant I started to wonder if a regular contributor to this thread is one of the presenters, Will sounds a lot like a regular Ranter.

He said that he visited the fandomentals website and watched Preston's reviews. I guess it's not far fetched that he visits this thread. And as often as he said that things just happen, because the writers want them to happen, I assume that he know's Benioff's quote. 

As I said it didn't provide me with a lot of new information, but it was an excellent summary of what went wrong with the show over the last few seasons combined with good explanations. If some show-only-watcher would ask me why I don't like the show I would just tell him to listen to the podcast, because it's a good introduction to show criticism.

And what Will said about his experience with the show was similar to my own experience with it and I guess many other ranters had a similar experience. Like him I enjoyed the Seasons 1-3. Didn't like some of the changes like Talisa instead of Jeyne Westerling, but overall I enjoyed. them and I similarly I became more and more critical of the show from the Jaime/Cersei sept scene onwards. 

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14 minutes ago, The Dragon Demands said:

You know, it's going to be utterly hilarious when/if The Winds of Winter comes out, and the press will actually hype it up, even among non-readers, as this big event, and even the non-readers will see summaries of it.....and finally realize just how much D&D changed.  They'd never have been able to get away with all of this on a finished novel series; so many people gave them the benefit of the doubt of "maybe this is a condensation of something which happens in the next book".  

 

But are most show-only watchers truly interested in book reading?  This can be such a strange fandom at times.  Most fandoms vehemently elevate books over shows and movies, even when the visual medium is really well-done.  Like say, Harry Potter.  Show-only seems perfectly content at times to accept the show as official canon, even if they are aware of the differences, and have little to no interest in actually reading.   Maybe I'm wrong.  There's plenty of people that like both.  I just got a friend at work to watch the show, but I actively encourage her to read the books.  She's binged watched it, loved it in the first few seasons, but even she had to admit that later seasons the quality of writing, plot, and dialog did go significantly down.  That's someone with no foreknowledge of the content or differences with the books.  She did say she plans to read the books after she told me that, so I consider that doing my part lol.               

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As the podcast pointed out, for many of its critics, the show fails on its own "merits," more than just as adaptation. Lapses of logic, continuity, characterisation frustrate the discerning viewer, whether they've read the books or not. It works as bread and circuses, so for the very casual viewer, who watches for tits and dragons, it's AWESOME. 

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44 minutes ago, The Dragon Demands said:

That's the one thing I didn't get - all the other stuff is fair enough, given condensations (at least on paper)....but "we need to go on a wight hunt"?......when the Watch is already capturing straggler wights, and even sent a hand in a jar to KL - in the books of course?

But on the other hand.....something on the scale of.....

 

 

.......well, the leaks claiming that a dragon will die fighting the White Walkers.  How could something that big be purely an invention by D&D?  Leading me to wonder if it actually is based on SOMETHING from the next novel.

Well some people have speculated that it might be the third big WTF moment GRRM told D&D told them about. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility, but IRRC they said that the third WTF moment is close to the end of the story, which makes me a bit doubtful about the Ice Dragon being it. 

41 minutes ago, The Dragon Demands said:

You know, it's going to be utterly hilarious when/if The Winds of Winter comes out, and the press will actually hype it up, even among non-readers, as this big event, and even the non-readers will see summaries of it.....and finally realize just how much D&D changed.  They'd never have been able to get away with all of this on a finished novel series; so many people gave them the benefit of the doubt of "maybe this is a condensation of something which happens in the next book".  

What if Stannis defeats Ramsay in the next book, and Theon executes him, eh?

And just HOW radically different Sansa's storyline is.  Or you know, DORNE.  

What if there isn't some giant meetup of all the major characters in the Dragon Pit? (though there might be).  

This is the reason why I coud easily assume that the White Dragon is something that's not gonna be in the next book Imagine someone who hasn't visited any online sites about GOT and watched the first 5 seasons of the show would start reading the books. That person would believe that Sansa marries Ramsay, that Jaime visits Dorne, that Jon get's stabbed by Olly and Aliser Thorne, that Catelyn never comes back and that Robb was married to Talisa a noblewoman from Volatis. That person would wonder why we don't have any Ross POV chapters in AGOT and ACOK and while reading ASOS that person will probably ask himself when Jon will go on the mission to Chraster's keep and when Brienne and the Hound will start their fight. Okay some of these things have a bit of a connection to stuff that happens in the books, but considering how much the showrunners have already changed or invented I wouldn't be surprised if the White Dragon thing is also invented. 

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3 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said:

You know, it's going to be utterly hilarious when/if The Winds of Winter comes out, and the press will actually hype it up, even among non-readers, as this big event, and even the non-readers will see summaries of it.....and finally realize just how much D&D changed.  They'd never have been able to get away with all of this on a finished novel series; so many people gave them the benefit of the doubt of "maybe this is a condensation of something which happens in the next book".  

What if Stannis defeats Ramsay in the next book, and Theon executes him, eh?

And just HOW radically different Sansa's storyline is.  Or you know, DORNE.  

What if there isn't some giant meetup of all the major characters in the Dragon Pit? (though there might be)


Oh, the wiki will have fun cataloguing and broadcasting to the world every difference with the next novel.  We're keeping score.  

You mean if "the winds of winter come out".

How can D&D change something that has yet to be written. Is Grmm getting some of his ideas from the shows now? My guess is the Dany will lose a dragon to the Others in the book as well. It confuses me a bit though, if you can kill a white with fire, couldn't you kill a white dragon with fire as well?

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12 hours ago, Neds Secret said:

Hey I just listened to the podcast that you provided the link to and I thought it was excellent as it covers a lot of what we talk about in this thread! Actually some of it was so damn relevant I started to wonder if a regular contributor to this thread is one of the presenters, Will sounds a lot like a regular Ranter.

"If someone you hate is trying to get your inheritance, don't marry them."

That bit was great.

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8 hours ago, Lady of Whisperers said:

And what Will said about his experience with the show was similar to my own experience with it and I guess many other ranters had a similar experience. Like him I enjoyed the Seasons 1-3. Didn't like some of the changes like Talisa instead of Jeyne Westerling, but overall I enjoyed. them and I similarly I became more and more critical of the show from the Jaime/Cersei sept scene onwards. 

To be honest....to me anyway....it became blatantly obvious within a matter of days that it was just an unintentional impression due to bad camerawork and bad oversight, that they were too cowardly to admit to.  

And hey, accidents happen, people don't like admitting to them.  But.....I assumed they'd sheepishly admit they were wrong in the Season 4 DVD commentary.  Then the Tysha omission came in the Season 4 finale.

Even then.....I waited for that DVD release.  Then nothing.  I think many of us were waiting for...something.

My point is that no, the episode airing itself wasn't when I lost faith in them.

I lost all faith in them right before Season 5 began, when the Oxford Union panel came out, and someone directly asked them about it....and they just fumble for a response.  I mean, painfully obvious that it was a mistake they don't like talking about.  And will never admit to.  Just repeat the question back at the audience.

That....that was THE moment, watching that, when I realized we aren't just dealing with "normal" people who I disagree with, but people who have no transparency or respect, non artistic integrity.  That's when I realized we were in a media blackout.  

Then a matter of weeks later we got Sansa rape and Dorne crap.  And I thought Dorne was salvageable....up until the finale's events.  And just writing off Stannis like that.  

So for some of you this started around....April 20, 2014, when the Greate Sept sex scene aired.  For me it's all kind of a blur through early 2015.  Like, Oxford Union was April 2015, then May 17 was "Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken", then season finale was June 14, 2015.  

What a difference a year makes:  high point was the Purple Wedding, April 13, 2014, right before the Jaime/Cersei Great Sept nonsense.  By June 14, 2015, I was left shaking and wondering if I'd keep watching the show (I do, but parsing out the good parts, while..."my values and principles" prevent me from just letting D&D off the hook....no, we will stay here and judge what they've done.  It's ours, not theirs.)

I mean it's....this image seared into my mind, of waiting to watch Elio and Linda's video review of the Season 5 finale, hoping they'd make sense of this....and when I turned it on, it's them staring at the camera with a stunned, haggard expression, and Elio just going, "yeah....we're....we're *done* with Game of Thrones".  Dear god.  

Dear god 2014 was a good year; World book, Dance of the Dragons prequels.  

I say all of this just thinking.....think where we were in Christmas break 2013, and now four years later.  Or that the show could so rapidly go downhill like that - parts of it anyway.  Relative to the fact that this book series began in *1996*.  

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