Rant and Rave without Repercussions [S7 Leaks Edition]

[SecretWeapon]

You're comparing Rwandan genocide or starving Syrian refugees with...a tv show that went offrails with the source material. That post was extra-cringeworthy.

[Zorral]

3 minutes ago, SecretWeapon said:

You're comparing Rwandan genocide or starving Syrian refugees with...a tv show that went offrails with the source material. That post was extra-cringeworthy.

Yes.

 

[foxberlin]

On 22. Juni 2017 at 7:43 PM, Meera of Tarth said:

In your battle, always fight every mind, everywhere

Your mind, in every fight, everywhere, always

Everywhere, in every mind, always fight your battle

Mind your fight, always, in, everywhere, ,every

Fight your mind, everywhere, always, every battle

This way I might even enjoy the show, thank you so much. 

[Meera of Tarth]

3 hours ago, foxberlin said:

This way I might even enjoy the show, thank you so much. 

you'r welcome! Bettr if we laugh!

[The Bard of Banefort]

I kind of wish GOT would go the Netflix route and release all the episodes for the upcoming season on the same day. I would prefer to just binge-watch the season rather than have it dragged out all summer. 

[Jaehaerys Tyrell]

13 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I kind of wish GOT would go the Netflix route and release all the episodes for the upcoming season on the same day. I would prefer to just binge-watch the season rather than have it dragged out all summer. 

Season 6 was the first season I watched "live" so to speak and I found it very unsatisfying, one episode a week just left me feeling unsatisfied with the events that had occurred 

[CaptainTheo]

13 hours ago, Jaehaerys Tyrell said:

Season 6 was the first season I watched "live" so to speak and I found it very unsatisfying, one episode a week just left me feeling unsatisfied with the events that had occurred 

Funny enough it was the first season I did the opposite with, watching all the episodes over a couple of days. I was similarly dissatisfied - it felt like it got off to a terrible start due to Dorne and the only episode that really grabbed me was episode 5, "The Door". On first viewing I enjoyed episode 10 to an extent and my immediate reaction was that the season was an improvement over season 5. But after reading comments about it and comparing the seasons, I'm now thinking even season 5 was better than this. Also I rewatched the first four seasons a lot and even season 5 several times, but season 6 I've only rewatched each episode once at most.

[RenlyIsNotRight]

1 hour ago, CaptainTheo said:

Funny enough it was the first season I did the opposite with, watching all the episodes over a couple of days. I was similarly dissatisfied - it felt like it got off to a terrible start due to Dorne and the only episode that really grabbed me was episode 5, "The Door". On first viewing I enjoyed episode 10 to an extent and my immediate reaction was that the season was an improvement over season 5. But after reading comments about it and comparing the seasons, I'm now thinking even season 5 was better than this. Also I rewatched the first four seasons a lot and even season 5 several times, but season 6 I've only rewatched each episode once at most.

Season 5 at very least still kind of sort of "felt" like ASOIAF in the sense that it was subversive, even if it was in the dumbest and most hamfisted "MUH SHOCK VALUE!" way possible.

The problem with Season 6 is that to me it represented the show becoming the very thing the series is supposed to be a deconstruction of - a generic fantasy series. Characters likely deemed by D$D as "peripheral" are snuffed out to boil everything down to being all about the Starks, Lannisters and Targaryens, and all the obvious "good guys" coming together to defeat the obvious "bad guys". The only thing about the end game in Season 6 I didn't see coming was that Ramsay would be killed off, and even that would have been obvious were it not for the fact that you could practically hearing D$D masturbating in the background while writing all his scenes.

I'm expecting even more flowery generic bullshit in Season 7, hell if the leaks turn out to be true I already know I'm right.

[AEJON TARGARYEN]

23 hours ago, RenlyIsNotRight said:

Season 5 at very least still kind of sort of "felt" like ASOIAF in the sense that it was subversive, even if it was in the dumbest and most hamfisted "MUH SHOCK VALUE!" way possible.

The problem with Season 6 is that to me it represented the show becoming the very thing the series is supposed to be a deconstruction of - a generic fantasy series. Characters likely deemed by D$D as "peripheral" are snuffed out to boil everything down to being all about the Starks, Lannisters and Targaryens, and all the obvious "good guys" coming together to defeat the obvious "bad guys". The only thing about the end game in Season 6 I didn't see coming was that Ramsay would be killed off, and even that would have been obvious were it not for the fact that you could practically hearing D$D masturbating in the background while writing all his scenes.

I'm expecting even more flowery generic bullshit in Season 7, hell if the leaks turn out to be true I already know I'm right.

I agree, I love the series but I don't want it to become generic or cliché. 

[The Bard of Banefort]

2 hours ago, RenlyIsNotRight said:

Season 5 at very least still kind of sort of "felt" like ASOIAF in the sense that it was subversive, even if it was in the dumbest and most hamfisted "MUH SHOCK VALUE!" way possible.

The problem with Season 6 is that to me it represented the show becoming the very thing the series is supposed to be a deconstruction of - a generic fantasy series. Characters likely deemed by D$D as "peripheral" are snuffed out to boil everything down to being all about the Starks, Lannisters and Targaryens, and all the obvious "good guys" coming together to defeat the obvious "bad guys". The only thing about the end game in Season 6 I didn't see coming was that Ramsay would be killed off, and even that would have been obvious were it not for the fact that you could practically hearing D$D masturbating in the background while writing all his scenes.

I'm expecting even more flowery generic bullshit in Season 7, hell if the leaks turn out to be true I already know I'm right.

As others before me have pointed out, D&D were trying to essentially copy LotR with the Battle of the Bastards, which is why Sansa not telling Jon about the KotV was so ridiculous. They needed an army to swoop in "unexpectedly" to save the day, and did so by ignoring how nonsensical it would be for those troops to be unexpected. (They actually could have made it work if Jon and Sansa had tried to win over the KotV and failed, only for Sansa to finally win them over at the last moment. Unfortunately, we got a much more illogical scenario).

https://i.redditmedia.com/ERImPgWVrOyqfGlE4NBoa9zPrQjpgzM6eVlcZXiVo68.jpg?w=718&s=35dfebb4283d53a2dcc2baf81bc4ac3a

 

[sweetsunray]

Sheesh, even in the early days when you already had nonsensical character changes such as Talissa, at least most minor characters (including invented ones) were a joy to watch. Ok, so the brothel instruction scenes were cheap, but Ros was a realistically written character.

But then in S3 and S4 you can start to see the rewriting to stunt cast some of the minor characters:

• Shae actually being in love with Tyrion. This was nonsensically done, because at Tyrion's trial she reverts back to the whore
• Arya as cupbearer to Charles Dance. I'm specifically not using the name Tywin. And yes those dialogues and the acting of Charles Dance with Maisie was a riveting watch, as long as you didn't stop to think that Tywin the character would never ever have philosophical conversations with a girl he believes to be a commoner. Arya's escape and Jaquen's assassinations was a total afterthought and let-down. Where was the angst for Arya with grandpa Charles Dance? Did we as viewers ever fear that Tywin would find out her identity? No, because the writing to stunt cast Charles Dance as this enigmatic perceptible man of power who's friendly to smart-mouthed girls created a sense that Tywin actually knew his cupbearer was Arya and respected her for it. Roose would have been far more angstier. But they obvioiusly weren't stunt casting him.

Then from S5 the stunt casting becomes obnoxious:

• Olly (enough said)
• Ramsay (already since S4)
• Indira Varma
• Jonathan Price
• Brienne
• Bronn

While the already established minor characters end up being thrown on the wayside

• Ben Crompton for Edd Tolett who somehow has lost his morbid witty tongue
• Queen of Thorns
• Ciaran Hands as Mance
• Roose Bolton
• Nathalie Dormer as Anne Boleyn 2.0 to stunt cast Lena Headey
• Loras
• Jaquen
• Yara
• Theon
• Osha
• The Blackfish
• ...

And any new minor character and the writing for it just makes you cringe

• Sand Snakes
• Pilou as Euron
• those finger in the arse outlaws
• yellow cloak (ffs - the actor was so utterly disappointed with what they gave him, he had a scene filmed in his garden where he plays the canonical character and that is far better than what we saw the show give him)
• the waif

What they wrote for the last two seasons was just garbage.

[Ser Quork]

20 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

<snip.

• Sand Snakes
• Pilou as Euron
• those finger in the arse outlaws
• yellow cloak (ffs - the actor was so utterly disappointed with what they gave him, he had a scene filmed in his garden where he plays the canonical character and that is far better than what we saw)
• the waif

What they wrote for the last two seasons was just garbage.

Agreed with all of this, but just wanted to say that that little snippet the actor did in his garden gave me chills.  Ah, what could have been!

 

[sweetsunray]

11 minutes ago, Ser Quork said:

Agreed with all of this, but just wanted to say that that little snippet the actor did in his garden gave me chills.  Ah, what could have been!

 

Could that not be clearer evidence of an actor fearing that his career might be ruined if people were to judge him on what D&D handed him as a cardboard cartoon?

Yes, that amateuristic snippet filmed in his garden was superb!

[The Coconut God]

1 hour ago, sweetsunray said:

But then in S3 and S4 you can start to see the rewriting to stunt cast some of the minor characters:

I said I wasn't going to post in this thread anymore, but I'll make an exception here to correct your misconception. Stunt casting means casting a famous name in a minor role in order to promote a film or tv show, not giving an actor more scenes because you like them. Ian McShane was stunt cast, Olly and Ramsay were not.

Also, here's a link to Jóhannes Haukur's Lem Lemoncloak video, in case other people want to know what you're talking about.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

2 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

Sheesh, even in the early days when you already had nonsensical character changes such as Talissa, at least most minor characters (including invented ones) were a joy to watch. Ok, so the brothel instruction scenes were cheap, but Ros was a realistically written character.

But then in S3 and S4 you can start to see the rewriting to stunt cast some of the minor characters:

• Shae actually being in love with Tyrion. This was nonsensically done, because at Tyrion's trial she reverts back to the whore
• Arya as cupbearer to Charles Dance. I'm specifically not using the name Tywin. And yes those dialogues and the acting of Charles Dance with Maisie was a riveting watch, as long as you didn't stop to think that Tywin the character would never ever have philosophical conversations with a girl he believes to be a commoner. Arya's escape and Jaquen's assassinations was a total afterthought and let-down. Where was the angst for Arya with grandpa Charles Dance? Did we as viewers ever fear that Tywin would find out her identity? No, because the writing to stunt cast Charles Dance as this enigmatic perceptible man of power who's friendly to smart-mouthed girls created a sense that Tywin actually knew his cupbearer was Arya and respected her for it. Roose would have been far more angstier. But they obvioiusly weren't stunt casting him.

Then from S5 the stunt casting becomes obnoxious:

• Olly (enough said)
• Ramsay (already since S4)
• Indira Varma
• Jonathan Price
• Brienne
• Bronn

While the already established minor characters end up being thrown on the wayside

• Ben Crompton for Edd Tolett who somehow has lost his morbid witty tongue
• Queen of Thorns
• Ciaran Hands as Mance
• Roose Bolton
• Nathalie Dormer as Anne Boleyn 2.0 to stunt cast Lena Headey
• Loras
• Jaquen
• Yara
• Theon
• Osha
• The Blackfish
• ...

And any new minor character and the writing for it just makes you cringe

• Sand Snakes
• Pilou as Euron
• those finger in the arse outlaws
• yellow cloak (ffs - the actor was so utterly disappointed with what they gave him, he had a scene filmed in his garden where he plays the canonical character and that is far better than what we saw the show give him)
• the waif

What they wrote for the last two seasons was just garbage.

I forgot all about those ass pickers....what season was that??  5 or 6?  Lawd, I'm going to be lost when the new season starts, I'm not sure I have the fortitude to rewatch s 5 and 6. 

[Rhollo]

2 hours ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

I forgot all about those ass pickers....what season was that??  5 or 6?  Lawd, I'm going to be lost when the new season starts, I'm not sure I have the fortitude to rewatch s 5 and 6. 

Season 6, after the Hound is forced out of retirement, picks up his axe, put's on sunglasses and murmurs "this time it's personal motherf****ers" into the camera

[Lady Fevre Dream]

9 minutes ago, Rhollo said:

Season 6, after the Hound is forced out of retirement, picks up his axe, put's on sunglasses and murmurs "this time it's personal motherf****ers" into the camera

Thanks, I remembered it was Sandor, but I've blissfully acquired amnesia when it comes to keeping much of the past two seasons in memory.  I thank The Old Gods and The New for that, I do. 

[Le Cygne]

1 hour ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

Thanks, I remembered it was Sandor, but I've blissfully acquired amnesia when it comes to keeping much of the past two seasons in memory.  I thank The Old Gods and The New for that, I do. 

It's one of those too bad to even laugh ones.

 

[Le Cygne]

@Lady Fevre Dream Some Rory to clear your memory from that bad scene:

 

[TheCasualObserver]

21 hours ago, RenlyIsNotRight said:

Season 5 at very least still kind of sort of "felt" like ASOIAF in the sense that it was subversive, even if it was in the dumbest and most hamfisted "MUH SHOCK VALUE!" way possible.

The problem with Season 6 is that to me it represented the show becoming the very thing the series is supposed to be a deconstruction of - a generic fantasy series. Characters likely deemed by D$D as "peripheral" are snuffed out to boil everything down to being all about the Starks, Lannisters and Targaryens, and all the obvious "good guys" coming together to defeat the obvious "bad guys". The only thing about the end game in Season 6 I didn't see coming was that Ramsay would be killed off, and even that would have been obvious were it not for the fact that you could practically hearing D$D masturbating in the background while writing all his scenes.

I'm expecting even more flowery generic bullshit in Season 7, hell if the leaks turn out to be true I already know I'm right.

Oddly enough, I find season 5 and season 6 to be written in very similar ways, with the key difference being that season 5 was intended to be dark and season 6 less so.

So season 5 had improbable and ridiculous things happen which worked to the detriment of the good guys and season 6 had similar ridiculous things happen to their benefit.

In season 5 Sansa marries the Boltons for no reason, Stannis burns Shireen because of light snowfall and Jon fails to communicate anything to his men and gets stabbed. In comparison the bad guys go from strength to strength - Ramsay has his twenty good men, the high sparrow just fumbles his way into supreme power and the Boltons absolutely crush Stannis in ten minutes. 

In season 6 things reverse. Sansa is a player somehow, Jon comes back to life with no ill effects, Dany burns all the dothraki chiefs alive with no consequences and Arya survives stabs in the gut like no ones business. And similarly, the bad guys fold up like a house of cards. Roose becomes a gullible schoolgirl and gets shanked by Ramsay, Walder Frey get's killed with literally no set up at all, Ramsay fails to spot thousands of knights chilling out at Moat Cailen for six months and the high sparrow twiddles his thumbs whilst he waits for Cersei to kill his men and blow him up. 

NONE of these scenarios appear to have been given the thought or set up that they needed to appear believable to the audience. In season 5 the bad guys are allowed to cheat and win, then in season 6 it's the good guy's turn. But whether it's good or bad things happening, GOT has abandoned the notion of consequences for it's characters, which was fundamentally what the books and initially the series presented to it's audience and created the real narrative drama.