Rant and Rave without Repercussions [S7 Leaks Edition]

[Pink Fat Rast]

18 minutes ago, StepStark said:

Giving away the person the show itself declared "Key to The North"? That's not outright dumb? What is then???

Didn't he have a plan B for getting favors from Cersei instead? So far seems like he was well covered in case something happened to Sansa - though I don't think they addressed what his thoughts were in Cersei's imprisonment and whether that closed off that option to him or not.

[StepStark]

8 minutes ago, Pink Fat Rast said:

Didn't he have a plan B for getting favors from Cersei instead? So far seems like he was well covered in case something happened to Sansa - though I don't think they addressed what his thoughts were in Cersei's imprisonment and whether that closed off that option to him or not.

What can possibly compensate for Sansa's death? Or losing Sansa's trust for that matter? Who in their right mind would risk something like that? And for what???

[Meera of Tarth]

5 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said:

Why Dorne Failed in the Game of Thrones TV series - 4 hour documentary in two parts:

 

 

Weeks of research went into these.

I listened to the first half an hour of the first video and it's very interesting. They should have researched whether or not they could film in the Alhambra at night before writing the script and, of course, as you point out, use their stufios for the fighting scene.

[Pink Fat Rast]

12 hours ago, StepStark said:

Speaking of the spirit, this guy captured it perfectly:

 

I just watched this video, and don't really like it.

He seems to be some kind of uptight moralist with all his "badass is bad" talk, and he's cherrypicking a lot, too:

-in the books, the Tickler's death, Weese's assassination etc. weren't portrayed as "troubling" in comparison to the show's "badass" equivalents, the tone was largely the same; when she tells the BwB that she believes in Death, it comes off more troubling than "cool", so show does strike a balance there;
she kills a NW deserter, whereas in the show she starts refusing to kill "decent people", so she's less edgy in the show - but he didn't mention that

-so Dany crucifying the masters and then later being told some of them were innocent, or having to lock her dragons because they burned a kid, or some of those moments where the dragons snapped at her showing possible loss of control in the future, was all schlock badassery / not in the show and I just hallucinated?
They didn't go out of their way to present Mirri as sympathetic before the witchburning?


Biased, sanctimonious, and cares way too much about what some elitist snob professors think of the "fantasy genre down the line" - not a great video, as it turned out.

[Queen of Procrastination]

5 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I listened to the first half an hour of the first video and it's very interesting. They should have researched whether or not they could film in the Alhambra at night before writing the script and, of course, as you point out, use their stufios for the fighting scene.

They didn't film in the Alhambra they filmed in Alcazar castle in Seville , but otherwise I agree. In my book!headcanon Sunspear looks like the Alhambra though

 

[Le Cygne]

21 hours ago, StepStark said:

Speaking of the spirit, this guy captured it perfectly:

 

Finally saw the whole thing, that's a really good rant about the show. I like the way he uses LOTR for contrast.

[Newstar]

On 4/17/2017 at 6:05 AM, StepStark said:

Sorry to say, but to me the biggest denial is this:

The show didn't rule out any theory about the books, no matter how ridiculous or unrealistic those theories can be.

I'm afraid that's provably untrue, but this isn't the thread for that discussion. 

[Pink Fat Rast]

9 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said:

Why Dorne Failed in the Game of Thrones TV series - 4 hour documentary in two parts:

 

 

Weeks of research went into these.

Watching this right now, and:
 

Quote

"...bluntly admit that "Season 4 Ellaria" and "Season 5 Ellaria" are really two separate and unrelated characters.

They didn't really "adapt" this, "reconceive" this in ters of explaining how S4-Ellaria turns into S5-Ellaria, willing to kill children (unlike Oberyn). It's just a random shift."

Can I just ask, in which commentary exactly did they say that, and/or what was the phrasing?

That'd be pretty interesting, if they outright said that the same character played by the same actress is actually an "unrelated" character - seems like it'd make more sense to say they just "redesigned" the character, while obviously still keeping her as O's girlfriend who was there to witness the fight in KL etc.


At any rate it's quite amusing since I also remember watching that "one finger at a time" scene and thinking it's 2 new characters being introduced who've been brooding in Dorne all this time - it was only later that I realized she was the same woman from S4!

Calling a "random shift" doesn't really ring true as it would make sense she'd get a "mourning make-over" and grow crazy and embittered after what happened in MvsV, but yeah it was a bit sudden wasn't it


 

[The Dragon Demands]

Quick response:  I give citations in the video.  Multiple interviews they said that actually, we just tuned it out because it was even more absurd than "we have a wacky conception of the fictional character"

It's "We reconceived the role to make it worthy of the actor's talents".

episode 5.10 commentary, the Dorne scenes.

[Meera of Tarth]

6 hours ago, Queen of Procrastination said:

They didn't film in the Alhambra they filmed in Alcazar castle in Seville , but otherwise I agree. In my book!headcanon Sunspear looks like the Alhambra though

 

True!! I got confused!

[StepStark]

3 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

Finally saw the whole thing, that's a really good rant about the show. I like the way he uses LOTR for contrast.

Absolutely. I'm not a fan of LOTR, but even I can appreciate his comparison of two adaptations.

[Le Cygne]

3 hours ago, StepStark said:

Absolutely. I'm not a fan of LOTR, but even I can appreciate his comparison of two adaptations.

It helped that they used a lot of book dialogue. The concept of honor is really important. And love and sacrifices out of love. From the most humble (Sam) to the most vaulted characters (Galadriel). This is what Gandalf was saying to Frodo, everyone plays a part, so a series of characters showing mercy to Gollum led to the destruction of the ring.

If they had just made it a violent shock fest, like Game of Thrones, it would have meant nothing.

[Pink Fat Rast]

6 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

It helped that they used a lot of book dialogue. The concept of honor is really important. And love and sacrifices out of love. From the most humble (Sam) to the most vaulted characters (Galadriel). This is what Gandalf was saying to Frodo, everyone plays a part, so a series of characters showing mercy to Gollum led to the destruction of the ring.

If they had just made it a violent shock fest, like Game of Thrones, it would have meant nothing.

I agree, I don't like how harsh and cynical Game of Thrones is - it should be an idealistic fairytale like LOTR where heroism love and honour prevail over everything; the way Asoiaf is in the books.

My ideal endgame would be for all the warring kingdoms to set aside their differences, defeat the evil ice overlord and then have an opulent feast where they prophesize 1000 years of peace and prosperity.

[StepStark]

2 hours ago, Pink Fat Rast said:

I agree, I don't like how harsh and cynical Game of Thrones is - it should be an idealistic fairytale like LOTR where heroism love and honour prevail over everything; the way Asoiaf is in the books.

My ideal endgame would be for all the warring kingdoms to set aside their differences, defeat the evil ice overlord and then have an opulent feast where they prophesize 1000 years of peace and prosperity.

Do you have a reason to be so obnoxious? Why don't you try something else for a change? Like, I don't know... trying to understand what the other person is saying. It is obviously a strange concept for you right now, but you might just be able to change that if you stop arguing with people just because and start processing what they're saying.

[Darkstream]

4 hours ago, Pink Fat Rast said:

 - it should be an idealistic fairytale like LOTR where heroism love and honour prevail over everything; the way Asoiaf is in the books.

 

Have you even read the books? I find it hard to believe someone who has, would make such a statement. Unless, as Step Stark stated, your just arguing because, and being sarcastic as a means to get around the thread rules. Seriously m8, grow up.

[StepStark]

1 minute ago, Darkstream said:

Have you even read the books? I find it hard to believe someone who has, would make such a statement. Unless, as Step Stark stated, your just arguing because.

I think he was just trying to be cynical, but I also can't be sure that he even read the books as he claims, because in another thread he kept misinterpreting them on various levels. He also managed to misunderstand that video I posted a link to, and tried to ridicule it as unrealistically idealistic - but of course, he only exposed his own poor comprehension skills because that video actually credited Martin for creating a rarely realistic story by not looking away from the consequences of authoritarian violence.

[Pink Fat Rast]

1 hour ago, StepStark said:

Do you have a reason to be so obnoxious? Why don't you try something else for a change? Like, I don't know... trying to understand what the other person is saying. It is obviously a strange concept for you right now, but you might just be able to change that if you stop arguing with people just because and start processing what they're saying.

It was bizarre to liken GoT to LotR in that fashion, but I wasn't gonna dwell on it.

 

Quote

think he was just trying to be cynical, but I also can't be sure that he even read the books as he claims, because in another thread he kept misinterpreting them on various levels.

You've got BAWLS, after how that debate turned out for you - you misread Beric's lines and I proved it to you.

Quote

He also managed to misunderstand that video I posted a link to, and tried to ridicule it as unrealistically idealistic -

Oh yeah? Why don't you refute my points then, and show how I "misunderstood" anything?

If not in this thread, then maybe in another

Quote

but of course, he only exposed his own poor comprehension skills because that video actually credited Martin for creating a rarely realistic story by not looking away from the consequences of authoritarian violence.

That video wasn't just about "authoritarian violence", I specifically focused on Arya's revenge and Dany's dragons and how the video blatantly misrepresented those plot points in the show, or how they compare to the books.


Anyway, I'm not sure what to do when some point made in this thread grows into a debate - you can't debate here too much, and if you open a new thread it just gets deleted?
So, I don't know

[Le Cygne]

GRRM often says this is what ASOIAF is about:

"Stories of the human heart in conflict with itself transcend time, place, and setting. So long as love and honor and pity and pride and compassion and sacrifice are present..."

[TheCasualObserver]

22 hours ago, Pink Fat Rast said:

Technically falling victim to the same thing you pulled on someone else (i.e. sneaking into their territory unnoticed) isn't a direct "contradiction" - but it still makes no sense, so yeah.

Don't think him being "too dumb" was ever confirmed, it seemed more like he was callous enough to gamble on it and then when Sansa made it out safe he just said whatever would most probably win back her trust (i.e. apologizing, swearing ignorance, and what not).

But, again, the ability to sneak through enemy territory isn't really directly at odds with not knowing the character of some bastard. I'm still not sure if that's supposed to make sense or not - in the same show, LF also could get away with claiming KL had Arya when it didn't, so I'm not sure about anything right now.

Just doesn't make sense on its own.

I don't really understand what the show was going for in this regard. His plan seemed callous and manipulative in season 5, but then he switches to looking genuinely contrite in season 6. Either way, the plan makes no sense, because what he stands to gain is vastly outdone by what he stands to lose. The most likely scenario of placing Sansa in Winterfell and then double crossing the Boltons is that Sansa ends up with a slit throat, and LF gets nothing. He didn't know she would escape - he could only assume the Boltons would keep her in Winterfell for the duration, even when he betrays them and tries to kill them. So Sansa would be getting her throat cut out of spite and LF would get diddly. It's not callous at all - it's idiotic. 

[TheCasualObserver]

If we're talking about proof of GOT's tryhard cynicism and ASOIAF romance, look no further than what "The North Remembers" means in the books and show.

In the books it's the rallying cry for Northmen who reject the Boltons and everything they stand for.

In the show it's a taunt Ramsay uses on his rape victim, whilst the Northmen couldn't give a shit.