Rhodan Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 8 minutes ago, Rhollo said: D&D tackling the topic of slavery "The indentured servitude became consensual" Not to mention that "Confederacy won and American slavery still exists" is one of the dumbest alternative history scenarios... but let´s go back on track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 41 minutes ago, Rhollo said: D&D tackling the topic of slavery "The indentured servitude became consensual" Good, lets see how much they suck when they dont have a magnificent starting point like what GRRM gave them... At this point I am only watching because I like many of the actors and love the books, so it is nice to see a few scenes in RL, mainly Dany and the dragons (which I'm sure will barely be on screen at all, gods know they killed off all the fucking wolves because $$) If they spent 50 hours filming that Sam-shit scene then they are idiots, it's just like when they spent 500k on all the faceless men masks we barely saw. D&D are butchers plain and simple, they had the easiest job in the world, make an awesome show out of awesome books with all the dialogue you could ever need laid out for them to just copy and paste. But no no no 'we are better writers than GRRM, we know how to tell a better story than him'---- I wish he would sue them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philokles Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 I hope they are able to handle racial issues more sensitively than they handle rape Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Rhollo said: D&D tackling the topic of slavery "The indentured servitude became consensual" Or they volunteer for it and get "I spit on your grave" revenge (complete with smirk of empowerment), then say the one who sold them into slavery saved them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Quork Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Rhollo said: D&D tackling the topic of slavery "The indentured servitude became consensual" I'm must make a note to avoid this at all costs. 29 minutes ago, Le Cygne said: Or they volunteer for it and get "I spit on your grave" revenge (complete with smirk of empowerment), then say the one who sold them into slavery saved them. Why depart from this winning formula? /s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ez Ahai Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 On Invalid Date at 10:53 PM, Queen of Procrastination said: Regarding Tywin: Didn't know that this was their opinion about Tywin, but it doesn't surprise me. They seem to really love the Lannisters (except for Jaime) and don't seem to like honourable behaviour. Regarding the reforging of Ice: I would really like to see that. Please this should happen. Could that be Gendry's job at some point? However, having two seperate Valyrian Steel Swords might be a bit more practical for the fight against the White Walkers, so maybe we should wait with the re-forging until the White Walkers have been dealt with. Sidenote: If Arya really ends up with LF's dagger, then we'll have two Valyrian Steel weapons in the hands of Starks and another two in the hand of Stark sympathisers. Though, I'm not sure who'll and up with Heartsbane in the end, since Sam probably can't wield it. Any suggestions? Needle (Arya) Dagger (Arya?) Oathkeeper (Brienne) Longclaw (Jon) Heartsbane (Samwell), I believe Sam will use it as best he can... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowy Tends Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Ez Ahai said: Needle (Arya) Needle is NOT valyrian steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Didymus Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 small comment regarding Sansa vs. Jon in the North (because we haven't read enough on this topic yet) At what point will someone call Sansa out for not only attempting to play the Game of Thrones, but to play the "Great Game" as if she was Cersei? Playing the game is what got everyone killed. No one was ruling the Seven Kingdoms from King's Landing; they were acting out of self-preservation: spying, lying, cronyism, back-stabbing, murder, etc.. Sansa is trying to replicate the dysfunction, desperation and dishonor of King's Landing in Winterfell, but why? because that's all she knows? a voice of reason, ANY voice of reason, should alert Sansa to the more important (and real) game that is going on vis a vis White Walkers, the Long Night, etc.. when the long night comes, King's die sitting on their thrones the same as the peasants sitting on their hand-made chairs. it wouldn't take much for Jon to simply say, "you're not in King's Landing anymore. these are not the same sycophants and yes-men that occupied the Baratheon/Lannister court. They even mention on the show that Jon is choosing NOT to wear a crown. he's not out for self-preservation and absolute authority... he just wants the humans to survive. a small detail, i know, but its frustrating that they continue to write this show by having characters refuse to say the one thing they should say in the moment... it's similar to Cersei's "a dynasty for us" line. its just nonsense words masquerading as clever, biting dialogue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 5 hours ago, Horse of Kent said: I hope they are able to handle racial issues more sensitively than they handle rape You jest, surely? Slavery = rape. But here it is all legal and historical and so we can really have fun. Shame, shame, shame HBO and everyone who wants to be involved with this. In our nation as things are this is civically, politically, socially and morally irresponsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 On 7/20/2017 at 10:07 AM, Le Cygne said: Or they volunteer for it and get "I spit on your grave" revenge (complete with smirk of empowerment), then say the one who sold them into slavery saved them. On 7/20/2017 at 10:37 AM, Ser Quork said: I'm must make a note to avoid this at all costs. Why depart from this winning formula? /s So long as they agree to do it in order to "Avenge Them" it will make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Quork Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Ser Didymus said: small comment regarding Sansa vs. Jon in the North (because we haven't read enough on this topic yet) At what point will someone call Sansa out for not only attempting to play the Game of Thrones, but to play the "Great Game" as if she was Cersei? Playing the game is what got everyone killed. No one was ruling the Seven Kingdoms from King's Landing; they were acting out of self-preservation: spying, lying, cronyism, back-stabbing, murder, etc.. Sansa is trying to replicate the dysfunction, desperation and dishonor of King's Landing in Winterfell, but why? because that's all she knows? a voice of reason, ANY voice of reason, should alert Sansa to the more important (and real) game that is going on vis a vis White Walkers, the Long Night, etc.. when the long night comes, King's die sitting on their thrones the same as the peasants sitting on their hand-made chairs. it wouldn't take much for Jon to simply say, "you're not in King's Landing anymore. these are not the same sycophants and yes-men that occupied the Baratheon/Lannister court. They even mention on the show that Jon is choosing NOT to wear a crown. he's not out for self-preservation and absolute authority... he just wants the humans to survive. a small detail, i know, but its frustrating that they continue to write this show by having characters refuse to say the one thing they should say in the moment... it's similar to Cersei's "a dynasty for us" line. its just nonsense words masquerading as clever, biting dialogue. I agree with you, especially the bold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerProle Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 29 minutes ago, Zorral said: You jest, surely? Slavery = rape. But here it is all legal and historical and so we can really have fun. Shame, shame, shame HBO and everyone who wants to be involved with this. In our nation as things are this is civically, politically, socially and morally irresponsible. So, in other words, utterly predictable, cashing in on the hate that never fails to sell in this society. Reading about this proposed show literally made me feel ill. As if I needed another reason to despise D&D. I know this new project seems off topic here, but the ludicrous praise for this pair among a very large chunk of ASOIAF fandom has paved the way for this. And that includes the cover provided them by so called 'progressive' voices for the really awful way they have already dealt with sex, race, gender, and power in the show. These are really hot button topics, and I don't mean to begin igniting them again. I just suspect that I'm not alone in feeling that this new project is absolutely related to how well D&D have successfully sold something rather putrid to an audience that loved it and begged for more of its worst tendencies, no matter how far any of it was from the original source material. Ignoring themes as just for '5th graders' has proven to be incredibly successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalerionTheCat Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 3 hours ago, Ser Didymus said: They even mention on the show that Jon is choosing NOT to wear a crown. he's not out for self-preservation and absolute authority... he just wants the humans to survive. That is what Jon is. And what nearly no one left alive is like, conscientiously, except Davos, Sam. That is what he must make other to understand. To stand by his side. That is not easy. It got him killed once. It is IMO the main message from GRRM and the books. Why I love so much these books. IMO the show is doing it quite well... when they are not erring in stuff like the BoB. Which should have been the battle of Stannis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindwalker Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 2 hours ago, SerProle said: I just suspect that I'm not alone in feeling that this new project is absolutely related to how well D&D have successfully sold something rather putrid to an audience that loved it and begged for more of its worst tendencies, no matter how far any of it was from the original source material. Ignoring themes as just for '5th graders' has proven to be incredibly successful. No, you are not. This phenomenon of catering to the lowest denominator and so many people sucking it up makes me wonder if humanity deserves to be annihilated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyMormont Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 52 minutes ago, Mindwalker said: No, you are not. This phenomenon of catering to the lowest denominator and so many people sucking it up makes me wonder if humanity deserves to be annihilated. Isnt it too harsh? This is just entertainment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerProle Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 2 hours ago, Mindwalker said: No, you are not. This phenomenon of catering to the lowest denominator and so many people sucking it up makes me wonder if humanity deserves to be annihilated. If you've ever read GRRM's sci fi stories, there is definitely plenty of evidence of a rather misanthropic streak lol. They don't shy away from looking directly at the dark side of human nature, which of course we see all through ASOIAF too. But if you want the hardest truth that maybe GRRM has ever written (he doesn't even like to reread it himself), check out Meathouse Man. I hate most of the show human characters lol, I'm on Team Night KIng. And bound to be disappointed by the fanfic finale of the show. In the books I'd like to think there is hope for some sort of accommodation with the Others, sort of like the ancient pact with the Children. I'd be surprised by a genocide on either side, it seems very unlike anti-war GRRM. In real life? Just this last week I have had actual living human beings tell me ruefully that they are watching GoT as an upbeat distraction from the nightmare of real life. Not just because it cheers them up as escape, but because the show seems less bleak and awful than the real world of news lol. Imagine that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davros Seaworth Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Just posting here as well as I'm unsure: I know most of this, if not all, has probably been said already, but since I've managed to get around to watching it and made notes as I did so, I thought I may as well post them here: Why did Arya have the wife’s wine poured? How did no one notice it happening? What happened to Edmure? How did she manage to take the form of his whole body? How did Arya know that Cat’s throat was slit or Talisa was pregnant? Is the Giant meant to be Wun Wun? How did Meera drag Bran all the way to the Wall without incident? How does Bran knowing that the AotD were sen by Edd make him a Stark? Why does everone know he’s called the Night King? Why are they sending the women to fight? Why does no one realise that knitting is important? Why does a little girl give orders still? Why is Littlefinger still there? What on earth is Davos doing? Why is Sansa presented as unreasonable when Jon is just as stupid? How was that undermining Jon? Why does the conversion make no sense? Why is Sansa calling Ned & Robb stupid? Why does Cersei not demand Sansa’s head? Why does Cersei still have an army? Why are they trying so hard to keep Cersei relevant? Why is Cheryl standing on the paint whilst it’s still wet? What the fuck is she wearing? I know she had it at the end of last season, but it is shudderingly awful Why were they waiting for a painted floor map their whole lives? Why is Jaime still in love with Cersei? How does Cersei know Tyrion was made Dany’s Hand of Queen Why has their been no riots? Why is there still a Lannister army? How does she know about the Unsullied? Why is she not dead? Does Cheryl not understand what a dynasty is? How did they find out the Freys are dead so fast? Why are the sails identical? How the fuck did Euron create ships out of thin air in a few weeks without any wood, and how did they not run into Dany’s feet? What kind of anachronistic clothing is Euron wearing? What ludicrously stupid thing us the Mountain wearing? Why is Jaime stealing Jorah’s deeds when he has plenty of his own? Is Euron meant to be scary, he looks pathetic? Why would she invite Euron thre only to tell him to fuck off? And how did she magically know that Euron will want to find a guft to win her over? Having been warned about stupid Sam scene I fastforwarded the whole stupid montage. Harry Potter references? It’s so obviously Harry asking Slughorn about Horcruxes! Lazy writing. Why is there a restricted section and why do they put the Dragonstone Dragonglass stuff in there? Why would they keep stuff they don’t believe in in a restricted section? So because the world has never ended, it won’t ever? Why is Brienne always mean to Podrick? What is with the stupid sexist stuff with Tormund/Brienne? How does Littlefinger know that Brienne beat the Hound? Good point Brienne why is LF still here? They don’t need LF to have the Vale Knights. Tell the Vale about what LF did Sansa. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid out of place song, its about Tyrion and Shae. Random soldier shouldn’t know it? Why are none of them rapey? Ed Sheeran. I’ve seen him act in “The Bastard Executioner”. He was actually better in that. Why are Lannister soldiers even there? Does humanising Lannister invalidate all the stupid Arya plots from last 2 years? What do you mean old enough to drink? There is no drinking age. A baby is old enough to drink alcohol! Why is the part of the Riverlands Arya is in snow free, but the part where Hound & Beric are is in a light blizzard? I won’t comment on how it happened to be the right place due to the Inn at the Crossroads in the book, but it is pushing it. Those skeletons have clearly been there for years. Look at the rotting. Hound, Beric scene is okay. Anti-religion? How’d Hound get so good at seeing in fire? And is there no budget to show what he sees? Cleganebowl? Why does the Hound nee to say what he’s doing? We can see him burying the dead? Why did Sam forget about Stannis telling him about the Dragonglass? Why is there a map to find Dragonglass in the book? Why would it need to be secret? Why does Jorah want to touch everyone? Is he trying to infect them all? Why does Dany look so smug? Ridiculous outfit again. The music didn’t make me feel anything. Why is Drogon no longer bigger than Rhaegal & Viserion? Why is Dragonstone comepletely empty? Has nobody heard of scouts? Did they just know it would be empty due to plot? Dragonstone looks lovely? Did they alter the lighting now that Satannis is no longer there? Why is there now a throne in Dragonstone? I thought they’d already begun? Hope it's not too repetitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 2 hours ago, LucyMormont said: Isnt it too harsh? This is just entertainment. Slavery, rape, torture = entertainment? That's good for a culture's survival? ya think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainTheo Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 On Invalid Date at 9:50 AM, Liver and Onions said: Yes, Rickard was killing Lannisters (boys who had nothing to do with his own sons' deaths, sadly). But they were the only Lannisters around, and he was pissed. No doubt he felt Cat might free them as well. His vengeance is wrong, but it has some logic. Arnolf's plots come after that, as a result of what becomes of Rickard's vengeance. Actions have consequences, lots and lots of consequences. Ellaria killing Doran because, I guess, he's not on board with the revenge thing? Eh? He's an obstacle? Which is opposite from the books where he's been playing the long game (take a drink every time a character is the opposite of their book counterpart.) I guess she's mad and she's just gotta stab something? Poor Doran just happened to be sitting right there... It's Bizarro Dorne! Doran actually was planning to betray the Lannisters and was only feigning peace, yes, even in the TV show. Alexander Siddig who played him said that he played him like that in season #5, and during the preview for season #5 he said that Doran has a secret and put a finger to his lips. Unfortunately Ellaria and the Sand Snakes murdered him before he got a chance to reveal his true intentions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyMormont Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 2 hours ago, Zorral said: Slavery, rape, torture = entertainment? That's good for a culture's survival? ya think? Actual slavery, rape, torture (mass murder, genocide, or whatever atrocity we add to the list) are quite different from shows, books or movies about those things. Anyway, since your comment was made quoting this: 6 hours ago, Mindwalker said: I just suspect that I'm not alone in feeling that this new project is absolutely related to how well D&D have successfully sold something rather putrid to an audience that loved it and begged for more of its worst tendencies, no matter how far any of it was from the original source material. Ignoring themes as just for '5th graders' has proven to be incredibly successful. I thought that your outrage was originated by the fact that a show that is so bad written has such a huge legion of followers who love it, not by the rape, torture, slavery, etc, in it, since the books have enough of all those things too. Sorry if I misunderstood you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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