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Little Scribe of Naath

Rant and Rave without Repercussions [S7 Leaks Edition]

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2 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

We've been debating it before for the last month or so... and it was then very clear leaks are becoming true by each piece of info news WOTW or L7R posted.

I don't think this news confirms anything, actually it instills doubts: why do they show us a new lord if they'll all die a few minutes later? and let's remember what Lads said: "Arya uses Walder Frey's face to hold a banquet and poison his sons. Makes sure the women are dismissed, first. Will happen in the first couple episodes." So what new Lord????

Still no sense....

 

I don't know who Rory Dignam could be, but this is what i found in his page: 

Special Skills

Stage combat
Awarded Distinction for Unarmed, Merit for use in Rapier & Dagger (IDCA).

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23 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

I do think that the HS and Marg already came to an agreement. She probably confessed already why she had requested for the moon tea. She did sleep with Renly and was pregnant by him imo, and with Joffrey she could have tried to make it appear it was Joffrey's child. But not with Tommen. Have this lie come out at a trial would do two things for her - she's innocent of having extramarital affairs and had just been a dutiful wife, while it simultaneously is a reason to annul her marriage to Tommen.

Why would they give that marriage up? He's a little kid who requires a regent and won't be able to consummate the marriage for years to come. That seemed like a good thing originally, until Cersei framed Marg. Cersei's still there, especially with a hulk like the Robert Strong for a KG. And then there's Aegon, a bachelor Targ (supposedly) who can consummate a marriage the very night of a wedding. Oh, and no pesky mothers or regents either. I think the Tyrells will offer allegiance to Aegon in return for a marriage to Marg (once again), probably hoping that 3rd time is a lucky charm (well that would be the 4th marriage for Marg, but 3rd time Tyrells choose the ally based on it).

I love this!! Yes, they have more to gain with Aegon than with Tommen. That situation went south as soon as Cersei had Marg arrested.

My only quibble: Why would Margaery go to Pycelle, a known Lannister spy, for Moon Tea? Isn't it advertising the fact that either she, or someone in her entourage, is pregnant or sexually active? There's also the fact that asking for Moon Tea when she's already pregnant means she was trying to abort Renly's child. I'm sure she can come to an agreement with the HS, but still it's dicey.

On blowing up the sept, I agree it's unlikely. However, I think that Cersei will set something on fire before she dies. The wildfire can always be moved.

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6 minutes ago, kimim said:

I love this!! Yes, they have more to gain with Aegon than with Tommen. That situation went south as soon as Cersei had Marg arrested.

My only quibble: Why would Margaery go to Pycelle, a known Lannister spy, for Moon Tea? Isn't it advertising the fact that either she, or someone in her entourage, is pregnant or sexually active? There's also the fact that asking for Moon Tea when she's already pregnant means she was trying to abort Renly's child. I'm sure she can come to an agreement with the HS, but still it's dicey.

On blowing up the sept, I agree it's unlikely. However, I think that Cersei will set something on fire before she dies. The wildfire can always be moved.

While Margaery is not wholly naïve, she's far more naiïve than Cersei's paranoid mind thinks her to be. The conversation about Cersei urging Margaery to demand a trial for combat is the moment she truly wakes up. This implies that Margaery was still somewhat naïve before that and thus might have been naïve enough to ask Pycelle for Moon Tea.

Yes, it would mean she tried to abort Renly's child. The Seven's opinion on that is unclear, and a HS from the common people who also use Tansy tea and moon tea might not even argue against it. BTW the Catholic church in the middle ages had no true concept of "abortion" either, since the celibate male clergy knew nothing about conception and pregnancies much at all, and much of it was an unknown in general. Women usually did not know they were pregnant until their womb "quickened", which is the moment that the phoetus' movement in the womb is felt by the mother. A woman who is pregnant for the first time won't feel that before the 18th-20th week, and thus not before the 4th month. Since women also can still have a lighter period or spotting in the first months it's highly doubtful that like the Catholic church in the middle ages, the Seven have outspoken beliefs against abortion - they wouldn't even know the complete gestation time of human pregnancy nor the moment of conception.

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19 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

While Margaery is not wholly naïve, she's far more naiïve than Cersei's paranoid mind thinks her to be. The conversation about Cersei urging Margaery to demand a trial for combat is the moment she truly wakes up. This implies that Margaery was still somewhat naïve before that and thus might have been naïve enough to ask Pycelle for Moon Tea.

Yes, it would mean she tried to abort Renly's child. The Seven's opinion on that is unclear, and a HS from the common people who also use Tansy tea and moon tea might not even argue against it. BTW the Catholic church in the middle ages had no true concept of "abortion" either, since the celibate male clergy knew nothing about conception and pregnancies much at all, and much of it was an unknown in general...

True that Margaery isn't as conniving as Cersei thinks she is, but she IS a teen, and teens whose parents expect them to abstain from sex do not normally go to their parent's best friend and confidante to ask for birth control. I still think that her going to Pycelle is weird, if she were, in fact, using the Moon Tea for sex or abortion. And then maybe she feels that asking him to help her abort Renly's child, clearing the way for a Lannister heir, is not something a Lannister maester would object to.

edit: In fact, that she goes to Pycelle could be proof for your take on it.

You're right that the church's stand on abortion hadn't crystallized in the Middle Ages, and I don't believe High Sparrow says anything about it in the books. Yes, Marg is being tried for adultery. Using the moon tea to abort Renly's child would get her out of that charge.

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7 minutes ago, kimim said:

True that Margaery isn't as conniving as Cersei thinks she is, but she IS a teen, and teens whose parents expect them to abstain from sex do not normally go to their parent's best friend and confidante to ask for birth control. I still think that her going to Pycelle is weird, if she were, in fact, using the Moon Tea for sex or abortion. And then maybe she feels that asking him to help her abort Renly's child, clearing the way for a Lannister heir, is not something a Lannister maester would object to.

You're right that the church's stand on abortion hadn't crystallized in the Middle Ages, and I don't believe High Sparrow says anything about it in the books. Yes, Marg is being tried for adultery. Using the moon tea to abort Renly's child would get her out of that charge.

It fits more or less with the timeline as well. Considering that Marg wouldn't realize she's preggers 2 weeks after sex, but most likely not before 4 months after conception, this would indeed mean she became pregnant in 299 AC, not 300 AC. Most of the first half of aFfC happens in February-March of 300 AC. So late October or November of 299 AC is the likeliest estimate of the conception, which falls before Blackwater and thus very likely shortly before Renly died.

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1 hour ago, sweetsunray said:

It fits more or less with the timeline as well. Considering that Marg wouldn't realize she's preggers 2 weeks after sex, but most likely not before 4 months after conception, this would indeed mean she became pregnant in 299 AC, not 300 AC. Most of the first half of aFfC happens in February-March of 300 AC. So late October or November of 299 AC is the likeliest estimate of the conception, which falls before Blackwater and thus very likely shortly before Renly died.

It definitely works!

Maybe this was all a bit ot in that we're not ranting and raving, but thank you for coming up with an explanation for Margaery and Pycelle that makes sense. I've been wondering about that for a while :)

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33 minutes ago, kimim said:

It definitely works!

Maybe this was all a bit ot in that we're not ranting and raving, but thank you for coming up with an explanation for Margaery and Pycelle that makes sense. I've been wondering about that for a while :)

Well it began as a rant, didn't it? Instead we got Marg scribbling a rose.

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On 29/11/2016 at 4:30 AM, The Bear Who Knocks said:

I hate that trope so much.

That's all the DumbleDork$ have, tropes and shocks and tits and dragons, it's the D$D way, it's straight out of the only book that D$D have actually read by themselves, Adaptations for Dummies!

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If Sam finds a way to cure Greyscale, what does that have to do with anything? At this point, what does Jorah have to do with anything. Then again, maybe they are bringing people back for a sort of curtain-call.

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11 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

If Sam finds a way to cure Greyscale, what does that have to do with anything? At this point, what does Jorah have to do with anything. Then again, maybe they are bringing people back for a sort of curtain-call.

Agreed. They gave JonCon's greyscale to Jorah - a creep and man who does not recognize his responsibility in anything in the books - to make it this poor unrequieted love story for Jorah (and Aidan Quinn plays that role good enough) and now Sam's role is basically being Jorah's support character who saves him so he can return to his beloved queen once more and be even more lovesick over her with Jon. 

It's all swapsies and making it too contrived. Sure, Jeor's last wish was mentioned to Sam, but I see that more as a foreshadowing for Jorah rather than Sam being the supporting character in Jorah's arc. He might be sent there as punishment, and afterwards he might learn from Sam that it was his father's last wish for him. And while JonCon has an unrequited love story with Rhaegar, his love interest is dead, he's a man who blames himself (and thus feels very responsible) for the past. Heck, even Aegon sending JonCon away to find a cure for his greyscale makes more sense than Dany saying it - after all JonCon raised him and is Aegon's father in an emotional sense, while it's not farfetched that Aegon also would want to get rid of JonCon at some point to get into his own (like Robb sent Cat to Bitterbridge in part so he would be his seen as a grown man and king making decisions on his own) as well as contact the "friends in the Reach" like the Hightowers in Oldtown. It becomes a political manouever that also serves emotional wishes between Aegon and JonCon. But with Jorah it becomes this heartstring story. And it's laid on so thick that it has become more nauseating than interesting.  

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11 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

Well it began as a rant, didn't it? Instead we got Marg scribbling a rose.

 

sweetsunray private message me.

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2 hours ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

If Sam finds a way to cure Greyscale, what does that have to do with anything? At this point, what does Jorah have to do with anything. Then again, maybe they are bringing people back for a sort of curtain-call.

The same purpose as Jon's death although Dany finds the latter more sexy and perfect for her.

Poor Jorah....I hope he has a rope to play in the endgame bcause if boat love is true and he learns Jon and Dany are related he will be devastated.

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1 hour ago, Meera of Tarth said:

The same purpose as Jon's death although Dany finds the latter more sexy and perfect for her.

Poor Jorah....I hope he has a rope to play in the endgame bcause if boat love is true and he learns Jon and Dany are related he will be devastated.

Not sure I follow you here., Like Jon is available to Dany?

On top of it he has Longclaw. Like Daario wasn't enough as competition.

Jorah: Khaleesi I'm baaack ... oh shit. Who is that?:blink:

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3 hours ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

If Sam finds a way to cure Greyscale, what does that have to do with anything? At this point, what does Jorah have to do with anything. Then again, maybe they are bringing people back for a sort of curtain-call.

This smells of their usual planning. They introduced greyscale because...it was a plot point to tick off? They thought they might do something with it? Then it bored them or didn't make as much creative sense as anything else, so they need a quick way to dismiss it. Like, who else is affected by this at all? It's miserable storytelling, but it's nothing new for them.

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Looks like the entire greyscale plot was filler. I guess they needed something for Jorah do and that was the best they could think of? Maybe its a season by season thing where they change their mind or just put things in for the sake of it. Happens alot in tv shows.

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1 hour ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Not sure I follow you here., Like Jon is available to Dany?

On top of it he has Longclaw. Like Daario wasn't enough as competition.

Jorah: Khaleesi I'm baaack ... oh shit. Who is that?:blink:

I mean that Jorah's greyscale has no purpose in the story, just as Jon's death, because there is no difference in their characters. Jon came back being the same. Jorah will be cured soon...

And that Dany will pick up Jon, and Jorah will be even more friendzoned after that. Not that Dany has to be obligued to love Jorah, of course, but I thought that s5/s6 was showing more chemistry between them (maybe a potential romance from her part?), but instead she will fall in love with Jon, and then they will know they are relatives. I don't know, I feel bad for all of them. It's not my taste.

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Just now, Meera of Tarth said:

I mean that Jorah's greyscale has no purpose in the story, just as Jon's death, because there is no difference in their characters. Jon came back being the same. Jorah will be cured soon...

And that Dany will pick up Jon, and Jorah will be even more friendzoned after that. Not that Dany has to be obligued to love Jorah, of course, but I thought that s5/s6 was showing more chemistry between them (maybe a potential romance from her part?), but instead she will fall in love with Jon, and then they will know they are relatives. I don't know, I feel bad for all of them. It's not my taste.

I saw differences in Jon. truth be told,I pictured it somehow different and probably it will be in the books. On the show Jon lost all his will to fight ,courage, drive ... he regained it at the battle when he choose to live and not just die. He was more timid and somber than never thanks to this resurrection, so his change was more subtle. Not like D&D cared too much for it and resurrection was somehow underwhelming.

They do have a special bond but from her point it is love, but more of familial or this kind of. Not like in a romantic terms, not to mention Jorah in the books is far more creepy. This is where Jorah in the show is better balanced, smarter and intelligent. One thing that would make him will feel better is that he's no Daario, a good guy. Judging by the leaks that's the way he sees him.

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3 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

I saw differences in Jon. truth be told,I pictured it somehow different and probably it will be in the books. On the show Jon lost all his will to fight ,courage, drive ... he regained it at the battle when he choose to live and not just die. He was more timid and somber than never thanks to this resurrection, so his change was more subtle. Not like D&D cared too much for it and resurrection was somehow underwhelming.

 

Ye,s I remember I discussed it with you not a long time ago, I personally saw exactly the same Jon but everyone has their own opinion.

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They do have a special bond but from her point it is love, but more of familial or this kind of. Not like in a romantic terms, not to mention Jorah in the books is far more creepy. This is where Jorah in the show is better balanced, smarter and intelligent. One thing that would make him will feel better is that he's no Daario, a good guy. Judging by the leaks that's the way he sees him.

Yes, reading bookJorah was possibly one (or only the one) disappointment I got when reading the books after watching the show, because I sincerely think it's one of the few things the showrunners managed to do better.

I know a lot of people who would like Jorah to be involved with Dany (me included) especially since when I personally saw something different in their relationship between s5 (when he returns) and in s6. I saw Dany thinking of him a little differently. When Dany told Daario to leave, however, I didn't like it. I really though he was important to her, at least someone "she cared of", but then she tells Tyrion she never really cared for him, and I understood it as he had only been a soldier boy toy for her. So I didn't like it because I thought their relationship was more important than that (not than I am fan of it, but still, it was not a bad thing at all and was not portrayed as only sexual or not caring about him).

So, after her confession to Tyrion I thought that, maybe, she and Jorah could still happen, somehow. I'd say that, if the previous chances were 10%, at that moment could be 20% (if she can change her mind so quickly, why not?). You might notice than in that conversation Tyrion was foreshadowing Jon and Dany. I noticed that too. But I honestly thought that it was either a red herring, or foreshadowing of a political alliance, political betrothal at most, I'd have never thought Jon and Dany could happen in a "romantic" way. The romantic way means they make love before knowing they are related, and this is something I am really concerned about, because it only adds more angst.

Anyway, I still think that the reason they have made the love for Dany so palpable even if it's only unrequited, is because it will play a part in the endgame, maybe sacrificing for her or something related. Eitherway, greyscale was not necessary, it will only make him feel worse, since he will think she felt for Jon while he was not there, which will, in turn, be sad and laughable at the same time for me, than I'm a showJorah fan.

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47 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Ye,s I remember I discussed it with you not a long time ago, I personally saw exactly the same Jon but everyone has their own opinion.

I understand if you saw the same Jon, I know a lot of people do. One way or the other, books will be different or at least I hope so. Jon being a bit more grey character and his resurrection to be meaningful for readers. Not just getting haircut.

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Yes, reading bookJorah was possibly one (or only the one) disappointment I got when reading the books after watching the show, because I sincerely think it's one of the few things the showrunners managed to do better.

I agree. Not only because of Iain Glen playing him but they way they approach character in a less creepy way. I could fine some others they did better or at least managed to be sort of in line with books. One thing is actors and the  other is writing which is what show lack more and more as each season goes by.

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I know a lot of people who would like Jorah to be involved with Dany (me included) especially since when I personally saw something different in their relationship between s5 (when he returns) and in s6. I saw Dany thinking of him a little differently. When Dany told Daario to leave, however, I didn't like it. I really though he was important to her, at least someone "she cared of", but then she tells Tyrion she never really cared for him, and I understood it as he had only been a soldier boy toy for her. So I didn't like it because I thought their relationship was more important than that (not than I am fan of it, but still, it was not a bad thing at all and was not portrayed as only sexual or not caring about him).

I was somehow surpised she dumped at first but sort of understand it. Not sure if books will follow this example. Daario might even die during the Battle of Meereen but maybe he'll get to Westeros with her and then die or be dumped by Dany. Given how show needs to speed up things, I wouldnt be surprised.

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So, after her confession to Tyrion I thought that, maybe, she and Jorah could still happen, somehow. I'd say that, if the previous chances were 10%, at that moment could be 20% (if she can change her mind so quickly, why not?). You might notice than in that conversation Tyrion was foreshadowing Jon and Dany. I noticed that too. But I honestly thought that it was either a red herring, or foreshadowing of a political alliance, political betrothal at most, I'd have never thought Jon and Dany could happen in a "romantic" way. The romantic way means they make love before knowing they are related, and this is something I am really concerned about, because it only adds more angst.

If leaks are true, political alliance seems off the table for now. 

If you count on hotu, even more so or at least from her side she will fell something positive as romantic most likely, given it was in the bride of fire part. I think these two scenes might have showed or were supposed to highlight that what really this means for her. That Jorah is more important and that conversation how Daario taunted Jorah about Dany choosing her and how he can not ride a dragon at his age.

Maybe, I'm just speculating Jon might be reserved about her post reveal and who knows. But then if they have a kid, maybe he'll do his duty. I can't see him fathering a bastard or leaving her with a kid. Anyway, their relationship is kinda getting to the point where they had to either drop Jorah's interest in her or move and let them be together. Probably Jorah will be less expressive in his feelings and sort of see Jon is a good guy. Maybe that would make him feel better.

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Anyway, I still think that the reason they have made the love for Dany so palpable even if it's only unrequited, is because it will play a part in the endgame, maybe sacrificing for her or something related. Eitherway, greyscale was not necessary, it will only make him feel worse, since he will think she felt for Jon while he was not there, which will, in turn, be sad and laughable at the same time for me, than I'm a showJorah fan.

Don't understand what is his greyscale good for.

 Getting to the Citadel getting cured and then off to Dragonstone?

 I thought sacrifice would've been appropriate, it might still happen but it would be terrible way to end his character on this note. He is one of those character I just don't know what to predict as the endgame for him and where he'll be.

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I agree with Meera of Tarth, even I saw something different in Dany/Jorah's relationship in S5 (or it's just Emilia and Iain's amazing chemistry). The leaks appear to be true and it also appears that the greyscale was added for nothing but more unnecessary suffering for Jorah which will be even worse if the leaks are indeed true and

Spoiler

Jon and Dany make love. I am so not looking forward to Jorah's reaction to that (if he is still alive at that point but I count on it since the leaks didn't mention it).

I am a bit partial since I am a Dany/Jorah shipper but I will be very disappointed if the scene where he leaves her in S5, her reaction to him saying "I love you" and him leaving doesn't foreshadow something bigger later in the show about their relationship. It may very well be a sacrifice but then it won't happen next season at least.

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