The Last Kingdom II - NO MERCY [SPOlLERS Season I & II]

[Corvinus85]

Finished.

Spoiler

The last two episodes were great. I enjoyed all episodes, except episode 6, which kinda killed the pace thanks to the little side-quest Uhtred and Brida took. And on that subject, Uhtred didn't use Ragnar's sword to kill Aethelwold. They kinda hand waved that.

This season was far more dramatic than I expected. I knew Gisela's and Alfred's deaths were coming, but Ragnar's, and especially Thyra's were painful. I don't really know why they did that with Thyra, other than shock. It seems to me that the show writers don't wish to simply write off characters. I worry that is the case, as Beocca may go to a sad death, too, and Hilde, as well. I hope the show doesn't do that. I doubt Steapa will simply retire to an estate as in the books, These big divergences from the books really had and has me worried for the secondary characters, like Finan, who was great this season, but needs to have a bit of his background exposed.

The best moments were when Alfred spoke with Aelswith about not killing Aethelwold, Uhtred's speech about Alfred, and of course Alfred's and Uhtred's last conversation. I will echo everyone else in saying what a great job David Dawson has done.

 

 

[Zorral]

I'm going to be so sorry to see King Alfred depart . . . .

Got home from the Feast and watched another 1 and a half episodes.

It keeps not disappointing.  On the contrary, it keeps getting better.

The sequence between Brida and Uhtred, their common and separate great griefs -- their time together, working out how to help Ragnar out of Hel-Niflheim and into Valhalla, the very cold, snow and ice in which it takes place -- of course in their system Hell would indeed be a place of unimaginable cold --  it was wonderful writing and shooting choices.

 

[shortstark]

I have just finished episode 8 and am making a decision to watch 9 next week and 10 the week after.. Just to draw out the pleasure of watching this show.. As an aside.. I really used to like aethelwold, what has changed to make him like this now?

[Zorral]

1 hour ago, shortstark said:

I have just finished episode 8 and am making a decision to watch 9 next week and 10 the week after.. Just to draw out the pleasure of watching this show.. As an aside.. I really used to like aethelwold, what has changed to make him like this now?

I just finished the 8th ep and have begun the 9th.  I too would have gone a little slower but have discovered the Spanish television series made from the Captain Alatriste books is streaming in amazilla, so I'm really excited to watch that!

The older he got the more concentrated became his dickishness, as he still believed he was supplanted by someone who, because ill, is unworthy, and then again, by someone, who is young, is unworthy.  Because he's a scorpion, spreading poison everywhere all the time and simply can't help himself from seeing plots and making plots.  Imagine the plots he'd see if he were actually a king. 

Spoiler

That he's got one eye now, says something about seeing, presumably.  He never could see the full picture.

He's quite like a lotta people we can think of who are living now and feel they've never gotten their due, despite demonstrating repeatedly they don't do anything right.

[Martini Sigil]

I've been laying here like a harpooned manatee after yesterday's gluttony... on episode 8... IMO... this has been the best season thus far... Aethewold is a world-class instigator....lol

[Zorral]

OK.  Finished.

Spoiler

 

I am so disappointed -- I think -- that Brida didn't get to have Aethelwold for a few minutes before he was executed.  OTOH, time, plus maybe we had an amplitude of that sort of thing already with the skivey Skade. 

They kinda screwed up that entire Skade line of story, methinks. It didn't seem much integrated with everything else going on. But maybe that's just me.

Also, it seems a mistake that with all this emphasis of Uhtred wanting to see his children, as far as we know he did get around to seeing them, so busy with saving everybody as well as kingdoms.

Really hated it that Thyra died and died in the same terror of the deaths of her family so long ago, when she was kidnapped.  Did love Father Beoca head butting that dickhead and kicking the shyte outta him.  But then, that's why Thyra died.

 

Agree with the above poster that in many ways, perhaps, this is the best of the 3 seasons -- though my heart still remains with those episodes in the swamp in the first season, and Alfred's deep joy and satisfaction of riding armed and armored with the men, his army, to fight.  I just loved his face in those sequences.

[briantw]

Uhtred is definitely a terrible parent.  

[Which Tyler]

Just finished, and reading the comments here. A lot about Thyra.

 

I think a lot of her storyline this year is to show a world with Brexit and Trump ongoing, the dangers of enabling the likes of Aethelwold's man. To make that warning clear, they needed to finish the story that way

As for Skade - that character was always going to be an I possible one to play, but I really don't get the Californian vibe that's been mentioned - though TBH, I'm probably not even sure what a Californian Vibe is supposed to be. I certainly agree that the actress didn't make the most of her role though.

There was also some mention upthread of Uhtred needing to kill

 

Aethelwold's with Ragnar's sword. I must have missed a bit, I don't recall any mention of the blade needing to be Ragnar's, just coated in Ragnar's blood.

[Zorral]

Still thinking about the season.

What I like the most of the many things I love about Ealhswith is we get to see her in relation to other characters than only Uhtred.  She's consistent from beginning to the end of Alfred's life and after.  The scenes

 

Spoiler

in which Alfred is literally seconds from death, and she's nattering on about Uhtred, trying at the very last moments to bend Alfred to her will -- never having learned in all these years previous to this moment, that she's never been able to move Alfred to do anything she asks if he disagrees is so affecting. Not in making us cry in sympathy, because it never occurs to her that while she could have been holding his hand, telling him she loves him, she's was still complaining, robbing herself of his last moments.  Nor did she ever connect that Alfred lets go only after seeing Uhtred and getting his oath to support Edward.  Once that happens, Alfred lets go, feeling he'd done the best he could do, in his very last minutes, for the greatest love of his life, Saxon England and Wessex.  Alfred  may even have loved his England more than he loved his God? Surely if Alfred were asked he would unhesitantly state God is always his most important concern.

This stuff is why The Last Kingdom is the very best tv for these Dark Age - Medieval era.  There is real substance there, substance that translates into our own, real, lives.  This is what's missing from almost all the others, including Outlaw King.

 

[Corvinus85]

1 hour ago, Zorral said:

Still thinking about the season.

What I like the most of the many things I love about Ealhswith is we get to see her in relation to other characters than only Uhtred.  She's consistent from beginning to the end of Alfred's life and after.  The scenes

 

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in which Alfred is literally seconds from death, and she's nattering on about Uhtred, trying at the very last moments to bend Alfred to her will -- never having learned in all these years previous to this moment, that she's never been able to move Alfred to do anything she asks if he disagrees is so affecting. Not in making us cry in sympathy, because it never occurs to her that while she could have been holding his hand, telling him she loves him, she's was still complaining, robbing herself of his last moments.  Nor did she ever connect that Alfred lets go only after seeing Uhtred and getting his oath to support Edward.  Once that happens, Alfred lets go, feeling he'd done the best he could do, in his very last minutes, for the greatest love of his life, Saxon England and Wessex.  Alfred  may even have loved his England more than he loved his God? Surely if Alfred were asked he would unhesitantly state God is always his most important concern.

This stuff is why The Last Kingdom is the very best tv for these Dark Age - Medieval era.  There is real substance there, substance that translates into our own, real, lives.  This is what's missing from almost all the others, including Outlaw King.

 

I would say TV Aelswith is a more complete character than the book character, where she's only seen from Uhtred's eyes. Let's not forget in season 2, where she is the one that tries to have Alfred reconcile with Uhtred, but only because Aethelflaed had been kidnapped.

[Zorral]

1 hour ago, Corvinus said:

I would say TV Aelswith is a more complete character than the book character, where she's only seen from Uhtred's eyes. Let's not forget in season 2, where she is the one that tries to have Alfred reconcile with Uhtred, but only because Aethelflaed had been kidnapped.

I was describing the television Ealswith here, not the book character, yah? In fact I do believe I even wrote 'tv' several times?

The book stuff is over in the Literature - Cornwell forum.  

[Corvinus85]

11 minutes ago, Zorral said:

I was describing the television Ealswith here, not the book character, yah? In fact I do believe I even wrote 'tv' several times?

The book stuff is over in the Literature - Cornwell forum.  

I wasn't arguing, I was merely trying to enforce what you said. Basically, I like what they did with Ealshwith.

[Martell Spy]

Great season overall, possibly it's best, and that is saying a lot. Really sad to see Alfred go, also, as he was my favorite character. Same with Aethewold, actually, he was an interesting plotter this season and in the past he added a lot of wit to the proceedings. I'm pretty confident this show will cycle in new characters that are interesting, however. Purposely not reading the books until this show is over, so I don't really know what's coming. 

This is not the first time this show has claimed characters I liked. Leofric comes to mind, and indeed there was some Leofric callbacks this season.

[Pecan]

Has there been anything written about how Netflix perceives the show in terms of overall viewership?

[dooog]

Finished it and enjoyed it.  To me, this is a far superior show to Vikings, in its acting, world building, battles and showing viewers how men, soldiers, regions align themselves to Lords, Earls, Kings etc but it's not without its many faults.

I haven't read the books so I'm going on the show alone. Subjectively I hated that they killed Ragnar, particularly in the manner in which they did. I felt there could have been opportunity to pit Uhtred & Wessex against the Danes led by Ragnar and all that that dynamic would bring with it, instead of the Danes once again being led by a badass-looking incompetent leader into Uhted's slaughterhouse.  Father Beocca joining in and downing Danes like its nothing was fairly cringeworthy, as was Aetheflaed doing the same on horseback when the Mercians arive in the nick of time.

 

Objectively... a good example of where it falls short would be the character of Aethelwold, the son of a King with a strong claim to the throne. What we get is nothing short of a jester, who basically does nothing except constantly look on bitterly, get drunk and have sex with prostitutes all day nearby Alfred's palace.  Apparently he has no lands, no significant titles, no wife or family, no lords loyal to him and absolutely nobody takes him seriously, yet this man is supposed to act as the season's antagonist by.... whispering in people's ears in taverns.  The character is so toothless he has to pay some random guy hanging out down the road from the palace with a broken sword  It's a character that, had he been well constructed from the show's inception could have made for a brilliant adversary to Alfred, Edward and Uhted this season. Instead we get a whimpering clown that has no power to draw upon and some nonsense about breaking curses and an ending where, once again, Uhtred outsmarts generic viking commanders and wins another great victory.

[Corvinus85]

8 hours ago, dooog said:

Objectively... a good example of where it falls short would be the character of Aethelwold, the son of a King with a strong claim to the throne. What we get is nothing short of a jester, who basically does nothing except constantly look on bitterly, get drunk and have sex with prostitutes all day nearby Alfred's palace.  Apparently he has no lands, no significant titles, no wife or family, no lords loyal to him and absolutely nobody takes him seriously, yet this man is supposed to act as the season's antagonist by.... whispering in people's ears in taverns.  The character is so toothless he has to pay some random guy hanging out down the road from the palace with a broken sword  It's a character that, had he been well constructed from the show's inception could have made for a brilliant adversary to Alfred, Edward and Uhted this season. Instead we get a whimpering clown that has no power to draw upon and some nonsense about breaking curses and an ending where, once again, Uhtred outsmarts generic viking commanders and wins another great victory.

Alfred tells Aethelwold that if he was all that, he would have killed him long ago.

[Zorral]

20 hours ago, Corvinus said:

I wasn't arguing, I was merely trying to enforce what you said. Basically, I like what they did with Ealshwith.

Ah!  OK!  Yay!  

[Zorral]

7 hours ago, Corvinus said:

Alfred tells Aethelwold that if he was all that, he would have killed him long ago.

As far as I was concerned too, this made him a far more interesting character and antagonist than if he'd been anything other than poisonous.  There are definitely people like him in all areas of life, including our families, work places and even the oval office, where they create at least as much, if not more havoc, than those who  don't operate by toxic means only.  Royal courts in particular are historically famous for these sorts of figures.  They are incompetent at everything, but refuse to admit it, but feel they are always denied what is theirs by right.  Another way of putting it is that Aethelwold was competent at only one thing, toxic gossip.

 

Quote

 12 hours ago, dooog said:

Objectively... a good example of where it falls short would be the character of Aethelwold, the son of a King with a strong claim to the throne. What we get is nothing short of a jester, who basically does nothing except constantly look on bitterly, get drunk and have sex with prostitutes all day nearby Alfred's palace.  Apparently he has no lands, no significant titles, no wife or family, no lords loyal to him and absolutely nobody takes him seriously, yet this man is supposed to act as the season's antagonist by.... whispering in people's ears in taverns.  The character is so toothless he has to pay some random guy hanging out down the road from the palace with a broken sword  It's a character that, had he been well constructed from the show's inception could have made for a brilliant adversary to Alfred, Edward and Uhted this season. Instead we get a whimpering clown that has no power to draw upon and some nonsense about breaking curses and an ending where, once again, Uhtred outsmarts generic viking commanders and wins another great victory.

Historically more battles are won by trickery, bribery and good luck than fighting superiority, and more battles are lost by betrayal, bribery and bad luck than by fighting inferiority.  Forces holding back until the last minute, watching which way the wind is blowing, or how much more gold the other side will play, and stabbing their erstwhile allies in the back is constant throughout history -- particularly in these eras, and in the medieval and Renaissance, especially with the prevalence of mercenary forces.

UPDATE: Something I just now stumbled across and which may be of interest to us generally:

https://www.amazon.com/product-reviews/1445662043/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_cmps_btm?

Quote

A third major feature of this book is the author’s comparisons between what little is known of her through the scanty historical records – she did not have her “biographer”, unlike her father – with the various legends and ways she has been presented up to modern times. In addition to Victorian times, Joanna Arman alludes several to Bernard Cornwell’s characters in his Warrior’s Chronicles (now renamed the Last Kingdom series) and shows how the novelist has somewhat slanted and modified the record to make room for his hero Uthred. For instance, Lord Aethelred was a rather powerful and successful warlord and was neither a coward nor incapable and so was Edward the Elder. There is no evidence that either were jealous or envious of Aethelflaed, although there might have been some rivalry between the siblings.

 

[RedEyedGhost]

5 hours ago, Zorral said:

Bernard Cornwell’s characters in his Warrior’s Chronicles (now renamed the Last Kingdom series)

Oh my god, how many names has that series had now?  I know it's also been called The Saxon Chronicles and The Saxon Tales.

[Zorral]

2 hours ago, RedEyedGhost said:

Oh my god, how many names has that series had now?  I know it's also been called The Saxon Chronicles and The Saxon Tales.

Also, now it's called The Saxon Stories. It drives me crazy too.