The Last Kingdom II - NO MERCY [SPOlLERS Season I & II]

[WarGalley]

 It might be late but can we update this thread title to include Season 3 spoilers? I definitely learned of a couple of character deaths reading this earlier.

I finished S3 and enjoyed it just as much as the other seasons. Not sure I'd say it's the best as I had a hard time remembering a lot of the previous storylines and history of Uhtred's adventures and tragedies. I feel like I needed to have a better primer going into the season but maybe thats just me because I kept wanting to watch the next episode, so mission accomplished for the writers and actors.

On 11/26/2018 at 8:35 PM, dooog said:

Finished it and enjoyed it.  To me, this is a far superior show to Vikings, in its acting, world building, battles and showing viewers how men, soldiers, regions align themselves to Lords, Earls, Kings etc but it's not without its many faults.

I haven't read the books so I'm going on the show alone. Subjectively I hated that they killed Ragnar, particularly in the manner in which they did. I felt there could have been opportunity to pit Uhtred & Wessex against the Danes led by Ragnar and all that that dynamic would bring with it, instead of the Danes once again being led by a badass-looking incompetent leader into Uhted's slaughterhouse.  Father Beocca joining in and downing Danes like its nothing was fairly cringeworthy, as was Aetheflaed doing the same on horseback when the Mercians arive in the nick of time.

 

Objectively... a good example of where it falls short would be the character of Aethelwold, the son of a King with a strong claim to the throne. What we get is nothing short of a jester, who basically does nothing except constantly look on bitterly, get drunk and have sex with prostitutes all day nearby Alfred's palace.  Apparently he has no lands, no significant titles, no wife or family, no lords loyal to him and absolutely nobody takes him seriously, yet this man is supposed to act as the season's antagonist by.... whispering in people's ears in taverns.  The character is so toothless he has to pay some random guy hanging out down the road from the palace with a broken sword  It's a character that, had he been well constructed from the show's inception could have made for a brilliant adversary to Alfred, Edward and Uhted this season. Instead we get a whimpering clown that has no power to draw upon and some nonsense about breaking curses and an ending where, once again, Uhtred outsmarts generic viking commanders and wins another great victory.

This pretty much mirrors my thoughts. My main reaction to this season as a whole breaks down to 1) the antagonists and 2) Alfred.

Spoiler

 

1. This season spreads its antagonists across like 6 characters with none dominating. It's really not interesting for Uhtred to predictably outsmart some dumb Viking lord on the eve of a battle.. I was almost bored watching Heston, Bloodhair and Knute. The Vikings from S1 and S2 were far more interesting. I actually liked Skade and Aetholwald because it took screentime away from the others. Aetholwald was probably the most interesting to me despite having the severe flaw of being a character I've seen a million times before.. and how anyone follows him into his ventures after being publicly rebuked and humiliated by more authoritative and powerful figures is completely beyond me.

2. I never warmed to Alfred's character in S1 or S2 possibly because it's inherent in my natural reaction to condescending religious authority and not bad writing or acting. But I loved him this season. I liked that that they foretold his death several episodes ahead and then gradually delivered it. His last conversation with Uhtred was my favorite scene of the season and possibly in the entire show. Splendid job.

 

I think I've read more about English history on wikipedia because of this show than because of any school assignment as an American kid.

[Zorral]

The questions of religions are always paramount in Cornwell's English-centered works -- the ones I've read, that is.  I haven't read the Sharpes.  He does it creatively and plausibly within his narratives' characters' variety of perspectives on the matters too.

He's particularly terrific with this in The Warlord Chronicles (his Arthurian trilogy).  Where is it religion and where it is magic and where is it superstition and madness and where is it purely charlantanism, are the constant questions. Nor does matter if the questions are about the old Briton - druidic religion, the Saxon gods or Christianity.  And there's always at least one character who just is not not interested in religion(s) at all.  In the Warlord Chronicles that character is Arthur, not the protagonist-narrator.

He seems to think religion had no place the hearts and minds of the characters in his utterly failed US Civil War series or his attempt at a narrative set in the War of Independence (none of which I completed reading for so many reasons -- doubtless because these are historical matters which I have studied professionally for years).

[RedEyedGhost]

21 hours ago, Zorral said:

Also, now it's called The Saxon Stories. It drives me crazy too.  

I knew I was forgetting one!  At least they had Saxon in 60% of them   Hopefully they'll stick with one now that they've renamed it after the show/first book.

[Zorral]

3 hours ago, RedEyedGhost said:

I knew I was forgetting one!  At least they had Saxon in 60% of them   Hopefully they'll stick with one now that they've renamed it after the show/first book.

It's really interesting though, to compare and contrast the Saxon Stories / Last Kingdom, with the Warlord Chronicles because in the tales of Uhtred, Son of Uhtred, it's the Saxons who are the last gasp of civilization against the pagan Danish invasions, while in The Warlord Chronicles it's the the Britons' last gasp after the destruction wreaked to their customs and religion by the Romans, and then the Christians who do really come with the Romans' end times, fighting against the Saxon invasions and their gods.  But maybe we should be taking this to the Cornwell topic in the Literature forum, since these matters are outside the TV Last Kingdom?  I'm just as happy to talk about this here, but I'm also guessing others are not, and this is tv, not books.

[Corvinus85]

Why the hell did Cornwell accept to rename the series The Last Kingdom series?

[briantw]

1 hour ago, Corvinus said:

Why the hell did Cornwell accept to rename the series The Last Kingdom series?

$$$

[Zorral]

1 hour ago, Corvinus said:

Why the hell did Cornwell accept to rename the series The Last Kingdom series?

Why the helly-hell did GRRM let HBO call it Game of Thrones?

However, in terms of the Saxon Stories, in fact, as with GOT, The Last Kingdom was the title of the first novel (2004) in the series.  It's the through line too, for all the novels, which is Wessex standing alone as the last Saxon kingdom against the Danes, and then pushing back against them, successfully (until the other flank arrived, from Normandy, but that's past the purview of Cornwell's series here).

So what's your problem with this?

[briantw]

14 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Why the helly-hell did GRRM let HBO call it Game of Thrones?

Because it's an objectively better, more marketable title than A Song of Ice & Fire?

[Corvinus85]

1 hour ago, Zorral said:

Why the helly-hell did GRRM let HBO call it Game of Thrones?

However, in terms of the Saxon Stories, in fact, as with GOT, The Last Kingdom was the title of the first novel (2004) in the series.  It's the through line too, for all the novels, which is Wessex standing alone as the last Saxon kingdom against the Danes, and then pushing back against them, successfully (until the other flank arrived, from Normandy, but that's past the purview of Cornwell's series here).

So what's your problem with this?

I'm talking about the renaming of the book series, as you were just discussing. It's on his website.

GRRM's book series is still called A Song of Ice and Fire.

I would say the Saxon Stories/Tales/Chronicles is the better title for the book series, as we see the slow formation of England. It starts with Wessex, but then goes with Mercia rising under Aethaelfled and so on.

[Zorral]

10 hours ago, Corvinus said:

I'm talking about the renaming of the book series, as you were just discussing. It's on his website.

GRRM's book series is still called A Song of Ice and Fire.

I would say the Saxon Stories/Tales/Chronicles is the better title for the book series, as we see the slow formation of England. It starts with Wessex, but then goes with Mercia rising under Aethaelfled and so on.

I'd agree.  But maybe since he already had The Warlord Chronicles?

[HexMachina]

On 11/25/2018 at 8:57 AM, Which Tyler said:

Just finished, and reading the comments here. A lot about Thyra.

  Hide contents

I think a lot of her storyline this year is to show a world with Brexit and Trump ongoing, the dangers of enabling the likes of Aethelwold's man. To make that warning clear, they needed to finish the story that way

As for Skade - that character was always going to be an I possible one to play, but I really don't get the Californian vibe that's been mentioned - though TBH, I'm probably not even sure what a Californian Vibe is supposed to be. I certainly agree that the actress didn't make the most of her role though.

There was also some mention upthread of Uhtred needing to kill

  Reveal hidden contents

Aethelwold's with Ragnar's sword. I must have missed a bit, I don't recall any mention of the blade needing to be Ragnar's, just coated in Ragnar's blood.

That was exactly my thoughts on Thyra too. A very sad, fitting, and timely little arc. 

Spoiler

Which ended in such a tragic yet fitting way. She escaped death by fire once, and I kept expecting Finan to rush in and save her from it this time. But sadly it was not to be  

Anyway, loved this season, I was riveted throughout. I’ve only read up to book 3 so this was all new material for me. As others have said, Skade didn’t work (though I echo others, it wasn’t the actress but the character) but other than that nothing stood out as glaringly bad. 

E10 spoilers

Spoiler

There was something wonderfully satisfying about seeing Aethelwold’s plans crash down around him and his snivelling pathetic terror as Uhtred hunts him down. Never a more cowardly slimy character have I witnessed than Aethelwold this season, I came to utterly loathe him. Which is saying a lot, as previous seasons he wasn’t merely a bit of a joke but largely ignored. His plotting and scheming and backstabbing and the murder of Ragnar all made for a thoroughly detestable villain and his death was incredibly satisfying

 

[Mosi Mynn]

On 11/29/2018 at 2:06 AM, Zorral said:

It's really interesting though, to compare and contrast the Saxon Stories / The Last Kingdom

Not least because Alfred is descended from Cerdic - and they share quite a few characteris tics. 

[Zorral]

It's also interesting in The Last Kingdom to compare season 2 and 3's other Saxon villain, Alfred's sil, with Aethelwold.  The sil is just a toad from the first to the last and we surely know that as he doesn't in the least appreciate and even hates his wife, and he hurts her.  But Aethelwold is much more complicated.  They are both cowards, but in very different ways.  And one of them can project real charm and intelligence at times, the other -- not at all, ever.  We can see why so often in the past Uhtred had been at the very least amused and even admiring of how Aethelwold could bob in and out of total debasement and return -- even to the point of helping him out and protecting him a bit here and there. But never ever for a single second has Uhtred shown a sliver of respect for the son-in-law.

So it's even more affecting to we the audience to see Aethelwold's final descent into villainy, something we cannot find in the least amusing -- which contributes not little to Thyra's tragic death -- but a vomitus of selfish, short-sighted, cruel ambition for what he isn't up to having in the first place.  A man without any mask any longer, even to himself.

It's just brilliant to have these two to contrast. 

 

[RhaenysBee]

OH MY GOOD GRACIOUS.  

Spoiler

DID AETHELWOLD JUST KILL RAGNAR? RAGNAR IS DEAD?!

 WTF IS GOING ON WITH THIS SEASON? IT’S ACTUALLY GOOD. It was high time. 

[Mark Antony]

Just now, RhaenysBee said:

OH MY GOOD GRACIOUS.  

  Reveal hidden contents

DID AETHELWOLD JUST KILL RAGNAR? RAGNAR IS DEAD?!

 WTF IS GOING ON WITH THIS SEASON? IT’S ACTUALLY GOOD. It was high time. 

Always been good 

[RhaenysBee]

6 minutes ago, Mark Antony said:

Always been good 

Naaaaaaaaaah. It started picking up in the second half of season 2 but now there’s an actual story, actual personalities and above all, suspense and emotion and conflict and interests and all the stuff that’s been missing. 

Spoiler

Pooooooooooor Brida  

 

[RhaenysBee]

And I love that Francis is a bad guy. Very very interesting to watch baby faced Toby in such role. 

[Zorral]

16 minutes ago, Mark Antony said:

Always been good 

Yes, it has always been good.    Those scenes in the fenlands in the first season -- the actors playing King Alfred and his wife  -- wonderful. 

[RhaenysBee]

My heart is bleeding for Brida. I don’t even remember the last time I’ve seen such a heart wrenching storyline. And it’s quite well acted too. 

Sorry about spamming this otherwise sensible thread. 

[Werthead]

Quote

Why the hell did Cornwell accept to rename the series The Last Kingdom series?

The Saxon Stories isn't a very good title, tbh, and The Last Kingdom is far snappier. It's also useful to change the title because fans can quickly distinguish whether they're talking about the books or TV show. Also, The Saxon Chronicles can't be used because that's already been taken by an old documentary series about UK metal band Saxon

ASoIaF had the same thing. It's a great operatic book title, but for a snappy franchise title it doesn't really work. This way predates HBO, every single spin-off from the show has used the title Game of Thrones instead, starting with the Fantasy Flight board game, the 2005 RPG (Green Ronin only used ASoIaF Roleplaying because GoT had been taken by Guardians of Order's game) and Cyanide's first, pre-GoT video game.

It would have been handy for Wheel of Time and Witcher to use different titles, but in both cases the names fit the story much more appropriately.