Would a Manderly/Greyjoy alliance make sense?

[Oakhearts head]

I'm speaking from a strategic point of view, specifically. Say if Asha were to marry Wendel or Theon marry Wynafryd or Wylla.

Both houses are known for their naval power and their large fleets respectively, but they're on the opposite sides of Westeros. Ignoring the current situation in Westeros in the books and any potential stigma/xenaphobia towards Ironborn, would an alliance between House Manderly and House Greyjoy be worthwhile for both houses?

[Protagoras]

I can´t see house Stark allowing this. Suddenly an ousting of them seems possible. Their strongest or second strongest bannerman joining the Kraken, a kraken fully capable of carving out a foothold.

If I am an ambitious Manderley and assuming lord Wymans strength as well as his silver (and maybe even another Northern house or two joining me, like the Boltons) I would have an army likely (at least) equal size to that of the Starks and thats before hiring mercenaries to my cause, since I most likely have more money that the Starks themselves to spend.

Apart from ousting the Starks, I cannot see the value. Neither side would come to each others aid in crisis due to the different regions. It might be worth something if building a real Ironborn-Northern alliance, but I very much suspect the Ironborn want land to in the North to really bother. At best, and with the Stark blessing I can see some limited trade and no raiding on the nothern west coast, which doesn´t favor the Manderleys directly. Then again, maybe both sides has been inflated with children they don´t want to do with and make a marriage without any political implications.

[John Doe]

I don't think an alliance would make sense. The two houses could never help each other if one of them was attacked, be it by sea or by land, which would make the alliance useless. They do have many ships, but historically, the Redwynes and Velaryons were stronger than the Manderlys at sea. Plus, the Manderlys would make themselves unpopular in the North. 

[Isobel Harper]

Maybe.  Perhaps not through marriage (for the same reasons stated above) but some kind of political alliance against a common foe (like Euron) is plausible. 

[bent branch]

2 hours ago, Oakhearts head said:

I'm speaking from a strategic point of view, specifically. Say if Asha were to marry Wendel or Theon marry Wynafryd or Wylla.

Both houses are known for their naval power and their large fleets respectively, but they're on the opposite sides of Westeros. Ignoring the current situation in Westeros in the books and any potential stigma/xenaphobia towards Ironborn, would an alliance between House Manderly and House Greyjoy be worthwhile for both houses?

Actually, I'm going to correct you on one point. The Manderlys are not known for their large fleet. We the readers know that Manderly has 50 ships, but Westeros in general doesn't know that. Robb ordered the Umbers and Manderlys to build a fleet before he headed south. At this point Manderly's fleet is a secret.

Manderly has a problem in that he doesn't have men with the skills to sail the ships he has built. That is the question I thought you were going to ask and, yes, I think Manderly could find some IB who were qualified to sails those ships.

 

[Scorpion92]

I believe Manderlys and Greyjoys will indeed ally - an alliance backing Stannis Baratheon. After the Mannis deals with Boltons and installs Rickon as his Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North, Rickon's Regent, Lord Manderly, and coalition of northern nobles will provide the king with an army and a fleet to take back first Dragonstone from the Iron Throne, and then launch his attack on the capital second time.

And we know that Manderly has lots and lots of ships, but very few experienced sailors. Well, enter Asha and her ironborn. I think Asha will captain Stannis' ships on his way from White Harbor to Dragonstone in return for backing her claim for Iron Islands. By the end of the Winds I expect Stannis to make it to the vicinity of Dragonstone and encounter Daenerys and her invading force. The huge battle between Stannis and Daenerys' fleets will occur, and Dany's prophecy of "slayer of lies" and "a blue-eyed king with burning sword who cast no shadow" will become a reality.

I believe Dany will roast Stannis in dragon flame foreshadowed on his banners - the burning heart of a stag. Asha and Theon and Stannis' remaining fleet will witness Dany's victory and capture of Dragonstone and will join her and her crew.

[Dorian Martell's son]

4 hours ago, Oakhearts head said:

I'm speaking from a strategic point of view, specifically. Say if Asha were to marry Wendel or Theon marry Wynafryd or Wylla.

Both houses are known for their naval power and their large fleets respectively, but they're on the opposite sides of Westeros. Ignoring the current situation in Westeros in the books and any potential stigma/xenaphobia towards Ironborn, would an alliance between House Manderly and House Greyjoy be worthwhile for both houses?

Since the Greyjoys are responsible  for the shattering of the north and the death of Robb's heirs, I would wager that an alliance would never work 

[Greywater-Watch]

4 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Since the Greyjoys are responsible  for the shattering of the north and the death of Robb's heirs, I would wager that an alliance would never work 

Wyman Manderly has proven to be one of the most loyal bannermen to the Starks, at least for the reader knowing his true motivations from the last chapter with Davos. But from this chapter we know as well that Wyman Manderly has more Information on what happened truly in Winterfell than most of all other Northmen, i.e. that the Bolton's were responsible for the slaughter at Winterfell.

So, from this point of view an alliance between Manderlys and Iron Men could be possible as long as no disadvantage arises for the Starks or the North. The main problem I see is that such a contract would not be possible between Euron/Victarion and Manderly, but only with Asha. And Asha has no hold on ships or men at the moment.

[Dorian Martell's son]

18 minutes ago, Greywater-Watch said:

Wyman Manderly has proven to be one of the most loyal bannermen to the Starks, at least for the reader knowing his true motivations from the last chapter with Davos. But from this chapter we know as well that Wyman Manderly has more Information on what happened truly in Winterfell than most of all other Northmen, i.e. that the Bolton's were responsible for the slaughter at Winterfell.

So, from this point of view an alliance between Manderlys and Iron Men could be possible as long as no disadvantage arises for the Starks or the North. The main problem I see is that such a contract would not be possible between Euron/Victarion and Manderly, but only with Asha. And Asha has no hold on ships or men at the moment.

Not a chance. Manderly, a  most loyal lord to the Starks would not forge an alliance with the people who reaved the stony shore, sacked torren's  square, moat cailin, and  deepwood motte and took its lords hostage. then there was all the men killed in winterfell by theon. The Ironborn have yet to experience the full wrath of the north. they will 

[Greywater-Watch]

4 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Not a chance. Manderly, a  most loyal lord to the Starks would not forge an alliance with the people who reaved the stony shore, sacked torren's  square, moat cailin, and  deepwood motte and took its lords hostage. then there was all the men killed in winterfell by theon. The Ironborn have yet to experience the full wrath of the north. they will 

You may be right. What I tried to point out is that in the hatred-scale the Boltons probably rank higher than the Ironborn (in the view of Lord Manderly). But as you say, as the Ironborn ARE on the list, Wyman Manderly may be without utter mercy towards them as well.

It probably depends on his military options. I see Lord Manderly pragmatically acting, even declaring for Boltons as long as he does not see himself in the  position to oppose them openly.

[Dorian Martell's son]

58 minutes ago, Greywater-Watch said:

You may be right. What I tried to point out is that in the hatred-scale the Boltons probably rank higher than the Ironborn (in the view of Lord Manderly). But as you say, as the Ironborn ARE on the list, Wyman Manderly may be without utter mercy towards them as well.

It probably depends on his military options. I see Lord Manderly pragmatically acting, even declaring for Boltons as long as he does not see himself in the  position to oppose them openly.

Anything is possible in the books, I just don't see manderly ever being to look past the damage done to the north by the IB 

 

[Yukle]

Simple geography makes such an alliance almost useless. Supporting each other requires a navy - and that means taking ships overland... ?

Or sailing all the way around the continent.

[Oakhearts head]

On 11/28/2016 at 11:33 AM, Yukle said:

Simple geography makes such an alliance almost useless. Supporting each other requires a navy - and that means taking ships overland... ?

Or sailing all the way around the continent.

If the Iron Islands were under attack they could sail their ships up the Fever River while the Manderly's march their forces across to meet them at Moat Cailin. That, or whoever was Lord Reaper of Pyke could agree to send some of his best captains to White Harbor in exchange for the marriage alliance.

[Lost Umber]

It would never happen.

The Ironborn look down on anyone from the "green lands" and would consider the Manderly's to be soft and useless. I can't think of anyone from the Iron Islands wed to outsiders and can't imagine why they would choose the Manderly's. Sure they would be happy to raid them and maybe take some as thrills, but that's about it. 

Edit: I guess it doesn't have to be a marriage to be an alliance but still can't ever see these houses ever having enough respect or trust to form an alliance.

....Have the Iron Islands ever allied with anyone?

[The Hoare]

In theory, Stannis could use Theon or Asha to split the Iron Islands between Euron and Asha/Theon supporters. Gorold Goodbrother, Dunstan Drumm and especialy Rodrik Harlaw seen to have doubts about the future of the Iron Islands under King Euron, which means at least three great lords could raise in rebellion. Harlaw alone could make a lot of damage.

A marriage would partly fix the wounds between North and the Greyjoys too. But I'm not sure if that's a wise movement. The ironborn could see the marriage with a greenlander as unworthy.

There were marriages between ironborn and greenlanders before(Harras Harlaw's mother was from the westerlands), but perharps it would alienate the drowned men, who doesn't have reasons to love Euron and could be good allies in a possible rebellion.