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Black Crow

Heresy 192 The Wheel of Time

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Greetings, travelers! I remain unconvinced of the Wheel of Time as of yet as well, although it may be that I haven't read enough yet. I can certainly see the inversions and echos all through the story (not restricted to the weirdly named chapters btw), I used to point some of them out myself, but it is the conclusions you draw from them that I have my doubts over. What differentiates some magic-ouroboro-history-repeating from the actions of men? Is Loras Tyrell a fine jouster because he is the echo of some knight from history or because his father wanted another Leo Longthorn? 

How about the inversions that happen in the current timeframe, e.g. Bran's weirwood initiation ritual and Dany's initiation into the HotU, how do they fit into the Wheel of Time theory?

 

Edit: One more weird thing about the Mormonts: the valyrian steel sword. By all accounts they are a poor house and yet they have one of the priced swords and then give it away one a whim. The ancestral sword of House Mormont was allowed to be taken to the Wall, where men have to give up their family connections, and then it was given away with not even a promise to return it after death. Even worse, it was changed, now unrecognizable to the unknowing eye as the sword of House Mormont.

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3 hours ago, Armstark said:

Greetings, travelers! I remain unconvinced of the Wheel of Time as of yet as well, although it may be that I haven't read enough yet. I can certainly see the inversions and echos all through the story (not restricted to the weirdly named chapters btw), I used to point some of them out myself, but it is the conclusions you draw from them that I have my doubts over. What differentiates some magic-ouroboro-history-repeating from the actions of men? Is Loras Tyrell a fine jouster because he is the echo of some knight from history or because his father wanted another Leo Longthorn? 

How about the inversions that happen in the current timeframe, e.g. Bran's weirwood initiation ritual and Dany's initiation into the HotU, how do they fit into the Wheel of Time theory?

 

Edit: One more weird thing about the Mormonts: the valyrian steel sword. By all accounts they are a poor house and yet they have one of the priced swords and then give it away one a whim. The ancestral sword of House Mormont was allowed to be taken to the Wall, where men have to give up their family connections, and then it was given away with not even a promise to return it after death. Even worse, it was changed, now unrecognizable to the unknowing eye as the sword of House Mormont.

I am a long way from completing my analysis of the titled chapters, which have been my focus, so I do not have anything meaningful to contribute regarding comparing Bran to Dany. I'm currently working on The Reaver chapter.

I do believe Dany is the one that broke the wheel and caused it to reverse, but she had nothing to do with the ward at Winterfell being removed.

Like I've said before I am unsure that GRRM will acknowledge a wheel of time in the books. It seems more likely that it is just a construct that he is using to tell his tale, but I'm sure you've noticed the reversal of the invasions? (Dragons, Rhoynar, Andals, First Men) That being said it does appear very deliberate. It's pretty consistent that the Martells are paralleling the Lannisters but getting a different result, and the Greyjoys are paralleling the Targaryens/Blackfyres and getting a different result. I expect to find other families with parallel and inverted lives, but I'm not that far into the chapters.

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8 hours ago, Black Crow said:

I sit here corrected but whether it was a Glover wife or a Hightower I think the scenario may have been the same,

I stress the may because it occurs to me that the answer to both questions may actually lie in the Mormont women. Is Bear Island another Craster's keep. Are the women really in charge with the men being turned off as soon as they've outlived their usefullness?

 

3 hours ago, Armstark said:

Edit: One more weird thing about the Mormonts: the valyrian steel sword. By all accounts they are a poor house and yet they have one of the priced swords and then give it away one a whim. The ancestral sword of House Mormont was allowed to be taken to the Wall, where men have to give up their family connections, and then it was given away with not even a promise to return it after death. Even worse, it was changed, now unrecognizable to the unknowing eye as the sword of House Mormont.

These things may be connected.   Jeor voluntarily banished himself to the Watch, reasons unknown, giving up lands and titles - basically removing himself from the Mormont house.   A few years later, Jorah engages in some bad behavior and earns himself a banishment  - also removing himself from House Mormont.    Jeor gives Jon a revamped Longclaw, obliterating the Bear and replacing it with Direwolf - again, removing the connection to House Mormont.   (I don't for a single second believe that Maege returned that sword to Jeor at the Wall, fwiw.)

Now we have Maege, Dacey,  Alysane, and the other Mormont women bearing the family name, refusing to give it up to a husband, refusing to give any children a different surname.   They are in effect preserving House Mormont.   (Well, maybe not Dacey...not anymore.)    While the "strong woman" theme runs standard for Mormont women, it seems to really start ramping up with Maege's daughters, whose birth years range from a few years pre-Rebellion to several years post-Rebellion.

So this begs the question:    what has caused Jeor to want to more or less scrub the Mormont name?  Why is he so keen to sever connections and/or legacy of House Mormont, while his female relatives take these unconventional measures to retain that legacy?      IMO...Jeor did something, something that - in his eyes - tainted the Mormont name.  What that is I do not yet know, but it starts with him.

 

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46 minutes ago, PrettyPig said:

So this begs the question:    what has caused Jeor to want to more or less scrub the Mormont name?  Why is he so keen to sever connections and/or legacy of House Mormont, while his female relatives take these unconventional measures to retain that legacy?      IMO...Jeor did something, something that - in his eyes - tainted the Mormont name.  What that is I do not yet know, but it starts with him.

Quote

It struck him suddenly that he might return to Winterfell by sea. Ned was no sailor, and ordinarily would have preferred the kingsroad, but if he took ship he could stop at Dragonstone and speak with Stannis Baratheon. Pycelle had sent a raven off across the water, with a polite letter from Ned requesting Lord Stannis to return to his seat on the small council. As yet, there had been no reply, but the silence only deepened his suspicions. Lord Stannis shared the secret Jon Arryn had died for, he was certain of it. The truth he sought might very well be waiting for him on the ancient island fortress of House Targaryen.

(Lord Jorah shared the secret Lyanna had died for. The truth we seek might be waiting for us on the the ancient island fortress of House Mormont.) ;)

/lemon beer

And when you have it, what then? Some secrets are safer kept hidden. Some secrets are too dangerous to share, even with those you love and trust. Ned slid the dagger that Catelyn had brought him out of the sheath on his belt. The Imp's knife. Why would the dwarf want Bran dead? To silence him, surely. Another secret, or only a different strand of the same web? Eddard VIII

 

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2 hours ago, PrettyPig said:

 

So this begs the question:    what has caused Jeor to want to more or less scrub the Mormont name?  Why is he so keen to sever connections and/or legacy of House Mormont, while his female relatives take these unconventional measures to retain that legacy?      IMO...Jeor did something, something that - in his eyes - tainted the Mormont name.  What that is I do not yet know, but it starts with him.

 

Ah but this is my point. I agree up to this point, but feel compelled to ask whether it began with Maege Mormont and her daughters or is something much older.

There are two other clues that all may not be quite as it seems. While its not explicitly spelled out, Jeor Mormont talks to Jon of the old gods in the abstract. He himself does not appear to be a follower.

And then there's Maege. When the Greatjon Umber proclaims Robb to be King in the North, everybody else follows suit except Maege Mormont. She [and she alone] hails him King of Winter

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32 minutes ago, Black Crow said:

Ah but this is my point. I agree up to this point, but feel compelled to ask whether it began with Maege Mormont and her daughters or is something much older.

There are two other clues that all may not be quite as it seems. While its not explicitly spelled out, Jeor Mormont talks to Jon of the old gods in the abstract. He himself does not appear to be a follower.

And then there's Maege. When the Greatjon Umber proclaims Robb to be King in the North, everybody else follows suit except Maege Mormont. She [and she alone] hails him King of Winter

I was under the impression that the Mormonts were Andal and followers of the Seven. It may be an impression drawn from the mummers version, but I wonder if their originating story is similar to the Manderlys in that they were originally southron houses brought north or given refuge in the north?

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I am not sure I see the inversions of the invasions. The realm was invaded in the past by first men, andals, rhoynar and targaryens and in the present it is being invaded by the wildlings and ironborn, soon to be followed by ice demons and dragons, You said Euron mirrors Bloodraven and thus the Targaryen invasion, who does Mance mirror?

 

 

It seems to me that the only truly odd thing about House Mormont is their current head and her actions: Maege Mormont. The name alone spurs the imagination,maybe we should give her her full title:

Maege of the House Mormont, Wife of Giants, Mother of Bears and Proclaimer of Kings.

Maybe I ought to take a look at the Asha chapter's again.

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22 minutes ago, Armstark said:

I am not sure I see the inversions of the invasions. The realm was invaded in the past by first men, andals, rhoynar and targaryens and in the present it is being invaded by the wildlings and ironborn, soon to be followed by ice demons and dragons, You said Euron mirrors Bloodraven and thus the Targaryen invasion, who does Mance mirror?

 

 

It seems to me that the only truly odd thing about House Mormont is their current head and her actions: Maege Mormont. The name alone spurs the imagination,maybe we should give her her full title:

Maege of the House Mormont, Wife of Giants, Mother of Bears and Proclaimer of Kings.

Maybe I ought to take a look at the Asha chapter's again.

Yes, the original order of invaders was First Men, then Andals, then the Rhoynar, then the dragons/Targaryens. The current story so far has the Targaryen throne overthrown by an Andal (Robert, then Cersei's bastards). Arianne (representing the Dornish) has brought herself to JonCon's Aegon (symbolically the Rhoynar since he came from that river). She is proposing a marriage alliance just as Nymeria did when she came to Dorne. Yet to see, but we should anticipate an attack on the First Men by the Andal throne. Also to be confirmed is a showdown between the Lord of Winterfell, the King Beyond the Wall, and the NIghts King. In the past the Lord of Winterfell joined forces with the KBtW, but Ramsay claims to have Mance in a cage, so maybe we can assume that what's left of the KBtW's forces will join with the Nights King? Jon seems destined to be the Nights King if he's resurrected as an undead one.

Euron is a parallel inversion to Bloodraven, and his brother Victarion is a parallel inversion to Bittersteel. Bloodraven worked against Bittersteel through 4 Blackfyre Rebellions, but left his predecessor to fight the 5th. The inversion though is that Euron and Victarion are working together. The Blackfyres didn't have dragons when they rebelled, but the Greyjoys seem poised to get one with that dragon horn.

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1 hour ago, Feather Crystal said:

I was under the impression that the Mormonts were Andal and followers of the Seven. It may be an impression drawn from the mummers version, but I wonder if their originating story is similar to the Manderlys in that they were originally southron houses brought north or given refuge in the north?

Jeor might be, but Maege certainly isn't and especially if she knows about the Kings of Winter. I still think we're looking at a matriarchal clan of First [Wo]men

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Calling Robert Baratheon an Andal seems like a stretch to me, the Durrandon line is first men blood and then they merged with a (rumored) dragon. Sure, they married a few Andals a long the way but their history, words and castle are all first men. Not to mention that Robert only got the throne because of his dragon blood.

Cersei's welps are Andals though, I give you that, I believe they are Aerys' grandchildren but their grandmother was still Joanna Lannister.

But if I follow you correctly there is no inversion for Mance? Just same old KbtW, then and now? 

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8 minutes ago, Armstark said:

Calling Robert Baratheon an Andal seems like a stretch to me, the Durrandon line is first men blood and then they merged with a (rumored) dragon. Sure, they married a few Andals a long the way but their history, words and castle are all first men. Not to mention that Robert only got the throne because of his dragon blood.

Cersei's welps are Andals though, I give you that, I believe they are Aerys' grandchildren but their grandmother was still Joanna Lannister.

But if I follow you correctly there is no inversion for Mance? Just same old KbtW, then and now? 

Mance is the King Beyond the Wall who is supposed to join with the Lord of Winterfell to take down the Night's King. The inversion is that he's not an ally to the LoW. Symbolically the north is upside down versus the west is east and east is west inversions. Patchface said the north was upside down and underwater, so I'm going with that. :P

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14 minutes ago, Armstark said:

Calling Robert Baratheon an Andal seems like a stretch to me, the Durrandon line is first men blood and then they merged with a (rumored) dragon. Sure, they married a few Andals a long the way but their history, words and castle are all first men. Not to mention that Robert only got the throne because of his dragon blood.

Cersei's welps are Andals though, I give you that, I believe they are Aerys' grandchildren but their grandmother was still Joanna Lannister.

But if I follow you correctly there is no inversion for Mance? Just same old KbtW, then and now? 

Not only is Cersei an Andal, but it's kind of up in the air right now with the High Sparrow. Will the Faith actually take over the throne like the mummer's version?

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I will point out that Dany is the Mother of Dragons, the origin of dragons, so if any invasion with dragons takes place it will be coming from the Greyjoys (Blackfyre parallel inversion).

It may also turn out that no dragon ever comes to Westeros this time around even though that is what was shown on tv, OR a Brandon will kill the dragons with weirwood. 

The theory about the inversions is that the same things will happen, in reverse, and with the opposite outcome.

I really cannot know for sure if the Greyjoys will be successful, because while Aegon the Conqueror certainly was successful with dragons, the Blackfyres were defeated every time they invaded, so will the Greyjoys succeed where the Blackfyres failed because they have dragons, or will the Greyjoys fail (unlike the dragonlords), because they were unable to secure a dragon from the Mother of Dragons?

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I am pretty sure we will see Oldtown burn from Sam's perspective when Euron swoops in on his dragon in valyrian steel armor. So count me in for that part at least :)

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Great stuff, I like this, even if I don't agree with all : that makes thinking a lot and reconseedering some views we can have. I like especially the "breathing wall", it seems to be just the contrary of the Others who are absorbing the warmth (it is a suggestion to explain why the air is so cold when they approach, even when they stay only as mists). 

 

I had also an theorir about this "time as a wheel". I didn't have no time to make with it a big developpement, but it started with 5 quotes : 

Quote

"Archmaester Rigney once wrote that history is a wheel, for the nature of man is fundamentally unchanging. What has happened before will perforce happen again, he said. I think of that whenever I contemplate the Crow's Eye. Euron Greyjoy sounds queerly like Urron Greyiron to these old ears. I shall not go to Old Wyk. Nor should you." (AFFC, the Kraken's Daughter)

 As it is already explained, this is true when we considers that a lot of events in the saga seem to repeat events of the past : Long Night, Azor Ahai, Theon who has now the appearance of an old man and could be a new "Grey King", Euron and Aeron who replay the story of Drowned God and God of the Storms, Brienne replaying the story of ser Galladon and his magic sword, the Frey and the Rat Cook, aso... this is not an exhaustive list, I think quasi all the events off the saga had an "original", with a difference : they don't inevitably end with the same manner. And as @Feather Crystal noted it, there are also mirrors effects (I think just to orphan baby Jon, birth in south and conducted to north//Dalla's and Mance's orphan baby, birth in north and conducted to south; just as an exemple)

 

2nd quote : AFFC Prologue

 
Quote

 

"They do," mused Alleras, the Sphinx, "and if there are dragons in the world again . . ."
"Dragons and darker things," said Leo. "The grey sheep have closed their eyes, but the mastiff sees the truth. Old powers waken. Shadows stir. An age of wonder and terror will soon be upon us, an age for gods and heroes." He stretched, smiling his lazy smile. "That's worth a round, I'd say."

 

So, basically, Leo is saying that the Age of  Heroes will return or had already returned. As reader, we just think "yeah heroes and god are reincarnate and they replay their legends". Let's see what was their legends, and how Azor Ahai reborn will forge Lightbringer ! ^^
 
3rd quote : ASOS, Arya IV
 
Quote

 

The next morning, as they crossed the little stone bridge behind the keep, Gendry wondered if this was the bridge the old man had fought over. No one knew. "Most like it is," said Jack-Be-Lucky. "Don't see no other bridges."
"You'd know for certain if there was a song," said Tom Sevenstrings. "One good song, and we'd know who Ser Maynard used to be and why he wanted to cross this bridge so bad. Poor old Lychester might be as far famed as the Dragonknight if he'd only had sense enough to keep a singer."

 

 

Beginning of this chapter, Arya and one part of the Bannerhood without banner are looking for Beric Dondarrion. They arrive to a little castle, the lord is Lymond Lychester, who is old and has lost his mind. He is repeating always the same story as if this was the present, but nobody can remember the true story and what happened realy. 

Here, we have a very interesting consideration about the human memory which fail if there is no song to remember (or perhaps also no maester to scrive it, but singers and songs are populars and you don't need to have a noble education - read and scrive - to know the stories). Lymond Lychester is not already dead, but his memory is. 

So. 

Singers permitted to remember gods and heroes stories. As prophecies, as priests and their liturgies, aso... 

Let's remind that CotF called themself singers, that Bran loves stories, and also that as a (future) crow, he is a bird who sing and can tell stories. A lot of birds in the saga are singing stories : Sansa the little bird, or Littlefinger the Mocking bird, or Varys' little spies - his "little birds" (non-exhaustive list !^^). The problem is that - as Old Nan says it (AGOT, Bran V) "all crows are liars" - most of these birds use their song to lie. The same with the bards/singers. As Ygritte says to Jon (when she tells Bael's story, in ACOK), singer's truth and men's truth are different. 

Hm hm. 

4th quote, ASOS, Tyrion X  

Quote

It all goes back and back, Tyrion thought, to our mothers and fathers and theirs before them. We are puppets dancing on the strings of those who came before us, and one day our own children will take up our strings and dance on in our steads. 

... and one singer has made for them a song to dance on ? What if the singer is a liar ? 

But let's keep the theme of the wheel, here. 

 

5th quote, ADWD Bran III

Quote

Time is different for a tree than for a man. Sun and soil and water, these are the things a weirwood understands, not days and years and centuries. For men, time is a river. We are trapped in its flow, hurtling from past to present, always in the same direction. The lives of trees are different. They root and grow and die in one place, and that river does not move them. The oak is the acorn, the acorn is the oak. And the weirwooda thousand human years are a moment to a weirwood, and through such gates you and I may gaze into the past.

As a weir, the weirwood retains the memories. He doesn't make a choice between them, only the man who is looking throw weirwood's eyes can choose what he want to see. Bran isn't enough trained to choose himself. 

 

After that, the hypothesis comes : what if the Age of Heroes, the Long Night, Azor Ahai and all the other legends didn't exist in the past ? What if they existed only in present - saga's time ? What if they were the songs about the lifes of men and women that Bran knew, and loved or hated, or wanted and dreamt to be ? What if Bran had told and lived all these stories for himself first, and then had inspired to singers, prophets and/or priests in the past, just to keep these memories (sort of reminder^^), and to recognize when heroes time would come and when the world would need them... with the comet's transit ? What if the legends of Garth Greenhands were about the hope of spring and reconstruction after this long night ?   

That suppose there is also a true story at the very beginning, but a true story who has no song and very different of the other legends. A story who could explain why there are Others, who they are, where they come from, aso... And sadly, a very ancient bird (with 3 Eyes ^^) prefered tells another. And now, he is prisonner from his lie, and he has made all his descendants prisonners to. 

In that hypothesis, the legends were inspired by Bran Stark (our Bran Stark) to men of the past, all over the world, but they also travelled, and took other forms (and other names) following the kind of civilizations where they were told.

So yes, time is truely a wheel without end, but it seems that there must be an issue, and an end to the saga ! (and another cycle will be able to begin) 

 

Sorry, I hope my english is clear enough to be understood. Honestly, I don't know if I caught something right or no (because it is impossible to prove that Long Night never existed in the past), but I'm working about for few months, with differents characters, and for the moment, it matches very well. But perhaps, I will catch one day a serious obstacle (as it arrived with others hypothesis I had last year :D), and I will say bye bye to it ! 

 

 
 

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29 minutes ago, GloubieBoulga said:
 

Sorry, I hope my english is clear enough to be understood. Honestly, I don't know if I caught something right or no (because it is impossible to prove that Long Night never existed in the past), but I'm working about for few months, with differents characters, and for the moment, it matches very well. But perhaps, I will catch one day a serious obstacle (as it arrived with others hypothesis I had last year :D), and I will say bye bye to it !

 

I enjoyed reading your ideas very much!  Your english is charming!  I like the idea that the Song of Ice and Fire; isn't just one song; but a collection of all the songs.  I don't think the song belongs to one person or is about one person or one prophesy.  

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2 hours ago, GloubieBoulga said:

Great stuff, I like this, even if I don't agree with all : that makes thinking a lot and reconseedering some views we can have. I like especially the "breathing wall", it seems to be just the contrary of the Others who are absorbing the warmth (it is a suggestion to explain why the air is so cold when they approach, even when they stay only as mists). 

 

I had also an theorir about this "time as a wheel". I didn't have no time to make with it a big developpement, but it started with 5 quotes : 

 As it is already explained, this is true when we considers that a lot of events in the saga seem to repeat events of the past : Long Night, Azor Ahai, Theon who has now the appearance of an old man and could be a new "Grey King", Euron and Aeron who replay the story of Drowned God and God of the Storms, Brienne replaying the story of ser Galladon and his magic sword, the Frey and the Rat Cook, aso... this is not an exhaustive list, I think quasi all the events off the saga had an "original", with a difference : they don't inevitably end with the same manner. And as @Feather Crystal noted it, there are also mirrors effects (I think just to orphan baby Jon, birth in south and conducted to north//Dalla's and Mance's orphan baby, birth in north and conducted to south; just as an exemple)

 

2nd quote : AFFC Prologue

 
So, basically, Leo is saying that the Age of  Heroes will return or had already returned. As reader, we just think "yeah heroes and god are reincarnate and they replay their legends". Let's see what was their legends, and how Azor Ahai reborn will forge Lightbringer ! ^^
 
3rd quote : ASOS, Arya IV
 
 

Beginning of this chapter, Arya and one part of the Bannerhood without banner are looking for Beric Dondarrion. They arrive to a little castle, the lord is Lymond Lychester, who is old and has lost his mind. He is repeating always the same story as if this was the present, but nobody can remember the true story and what happened realy. 

Here, we have a very interesting consideration about the human memory which fail if there is no song to remember (or perhaps also no maester to scrive it, but singers and songs are populars and you don't need to have a noble education - read and scrive - to know the stories). Lymond Lychester is not already dead, but his memory is. 

So. 

Singers permitted to remember gods and heroes stories. As prophecies, as priests and their liturgies, aso... 

Let's remind that CotF called themself singers, that Bran loves stories, and also that as a (future) crow, he is a bird who sing and can tell stories. A lot of birds in the saga are singing stories : Sansa the little bird, or Littlefinger the Mocking bird, or Varys' little spies - his "little birds" (non-exhaustive list !^^). The problem is that - as Old Nan says it (AGOT, Bran V) "all crows are liars" - most of these birds use their song to lie. The same with the bards/singers. As Ygritte says to Jon (when she tells Bael's story, in ACOK), singer's truth and men's truth are different. 

Hm hm. 

4th quote, ASOS, Tyrion X  

... and one singer has made for them a song to dance on ? What if the singer is a liar ? 

But let's keep the theme of the wheel, here. 

 

5th quote, ADWD Bran III

As a weir, the weirwood retains the memories. He doesn't make a choice between them, only the man who is looking throw weirwood's eyes can choose what he want to see. Bran isn't enough trained to choose himself. 

 

After that, the hypothesis comes : what if the Age of Heroes, the Long Night, Azor Ahai and all the other legends didn't exist in the past ? What if they existed only in present - saga's time ? What if they were the songs about the lifes of men and women that Bran knew, and loved or hated, or wanted and dreamt to be ? What if Bran had told and lived all these stories for himself first, and then had inspired to singers, prophets and/or priests in the past, just to keep these memories (sort of reminder^^), and to recognize when heroes time would come and when the world would need them... with the comet's transit ? What if the legends of Garth Greenhands were about the hope of spring and reconstruction after this long night ?   

That suppose there is also a true story at the very beginning, but a true story who has no song and very different of the other legends. A story who could explain why there are Others, who they are, where they come from, aso... And sadly, a very ancient bird (with 3 Eyes ^^) prefered tells another. And now, he is prisonner from his lie, and he has made all his descendants prisonners to. 

In that hypothesis, the legends were inspired by Bran Stark (our Bran Stark) to men of the past, all over the world, but they also travelled, and took other forms (and other names) following the kind of civilizations where they were told.

So yes, time is truely a wheel without end, but it seems that there must be an issue, and an end to the saga ! (and another cycle will be able to begin) 

 

Sorry, I hope my english is clear enough to be understood. Honestly, I don't know if I caught something right or no (because it is impossible to prove that Long Night never existed in the past), but I'm working about for few months, with differents characters, and for the moment, it matches very well. But perhaps, I will catch one day a serious obstacle (as it arrived with others hypothesis I had last year :D), and I will say bye bye to it ! 

 

 
 

I understand you perfectly, and hope you share more thoughts about the wheel of time!

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On 12/4/2016 at 6:24 AM, WeaselPie said:

 Further, there's a clue here with the name Brea, anagram for bear.  The Bear's (Joer's) boy (Jorah) was involved in secretly meeting someone?  Quite possibly.

I like that .Also, the origin of the word which in Celtic means "strength,power and force" and in Hebrew means " Father of a multitude." 

 

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The inversions angle is something i'm not convinced is happening either. At least,not in the way or as meaningful beyond the repetition of the cyclical nature of cultures.There would be conquerors,signs in the skies,climate issues,wars,some supernatural stuff,a "big bad" and a messiah like figure(s) to make things right as rain again.This to can be embodied in te meaning of the  Ouroboros which represents the perennial  cyclic renewal of life and infinity.Its about  the concept of eternity ;the everlasting  return of things .All in all another  representation of the cycle of life, death and rebirth.

What we are seeing is Westeros in its cycles.The possibility that even though the ages may change that cycle will still be there.Different conqueror,climate issue,wars ...etc.

I do love the listing of parallels though...More on this later.

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39 minutes ago, wolfmaid7 said:

The inversions angle is something i'm not convinced is happening either. At least,not in the way or as meaningful beyond the repetition of the cyclical nature of cultures.There would be conquerors,signs in the skies,climate issues,wars,some supernatural stuff,a "big bad" and a messiah like figure(s) to make things right as rain again.This to can be embodied in te meaning of the  Ouroboros which represents the perennial  cyclic renewal of life and infinity.Its about  the concept of eternity ;the everlasting  return of things .All in all another  representation of the cycle of life, death and rebirth.

 

:agree:

At most the repetition is a means of adding more depth to what we're seeing in the present

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