Jump to content

Feminism - Post-apocalypse version


Lyanna Stark

Recommended Posts

Honestly, the feminism thread may be the best place to hash this out without it getting thoroughly toxic and rapey -- or maybe not. I don't know. But I do agree with the recent posts: this is an issue where men have to lead. Women -- the targets of incels' hatred -- cannot be asked to do the labor on this. It will lead nowhere. Instead, men need to look to how they interact with each other and ask "how can we tackle this?" This will not be easy to address, any more than tackling systemic racism is easy to tackle in the white community. But it's work that has to be done. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We need to do a better job of teaching children, while they are children, how to properly socialise with others. How to express emotions, establish and communicate boundaries while respecting those same boundaries of others. I'm not sure what to do about them once they're grown up, but its the lack of interpersonal connections that leaves these boys alienated.

It won't help with the already existing incels and I honestly don't know what to about them, but I feel the need to again post this piece from after the Isla Vista shooting by Samantha Allen - https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.dailydot.com/via/elliot-rodger-intimacy-masculinty-crisis/

Not the first time I've posted that in this thread, probably not the last either.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, JEORDHl said:

There's something about the way manky thinks out loud that I don't like.

Everything seems to circle back to women,when, re: incels, women are only [only? how horrid] the victims. Again. 

Of all the criticism I’ve received, that is amongst the hardest to process. I would genuinely appreciate it if you could explain what exactly that means, and what is bad about it. 

I did circle this back to women, but I did so specifically because this is the feminism thread. I thought that would be seen as a positive thing. I mean really it was the response to what I wrote, I wrote a fairly long post with a small part criticising specifically only the most radical feminists. Unfortunately, the response only has increased my perception that feminists have a particular problem processing criticism. 

The responses from women have been far more constructive. So maybe you should let them do the replying, which I believe is encouraged in feminist circles.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Xray the Enforcer said:

Honestly, the feminism thread may be the best place to hash this out without it getting thoroughly toxic and rapey -- or maybe not. I don't know. But I do agree with the recent posts: this is an issue where men have to lead. Women -- the targets of incels' hatred -- cannot be asked to do the labor on this. It will lead nowhere. Instead, men need to look to how they interact with each other and ask "how can we tackle this?" This will not be easy to address, any more than tackling systemic racism is easy to tackle in the white community. But it's work that has to be done. 

I do think the have this mindset you have to “other” women. And I do think that starts with childhood, blue side pink side. Separation breeds prejudice. And I hope more parents are influenced by feminist thought on this, because if you tell people they are fundamentally different, they will internalise that. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Theda Baratheon said:

Yeah...I basically don’t know if I agree with any of that post at all...

if anything if you are going to make an equivalency with ‘man hating feminists’.............then it would be the Men Going Their Own Way and even that’s not a great comparison...they’re horrible misogynists who apparently just want to stay the hell away from women. 

Incel is something totally diferent...they hate women and attractive men and anyone who isn’t them but strangely enough they also hate themselves anyway 

I was bullied throughout the whole of school, I’ve hardly been on any dates or had any kind of sexual/romantic encounter at all, I have suffered from depression in the past...and yet...never have I once felt even a tenth, hell a one HUNDRETH (I’m not good at maths but humour me my point) of that kind of vitriolic hatred for anyone not finding me attractive...it just isn’t a normal step to make...I understand what leads people to these communities but if they find them and actually stick around after reading even a few posts then no I don’t understand or sympathise with that and if they start writing 1000 word forum posts about their glee over future acid attacks against women then I wish they’d fall off the face of the earth 

it takes freaking LEAPS AND BOUNDS to go from sad and ugly to writing detailed handmaids tale fan fiction basically of all incels having their own young virgin child brides and the rest of women executed or imprisoned...

i mean this is so warped and down the sick rabbit hole I have no sympathy for the men WITHIN this community at all...

and you not thinking it’s a movement doesn’t mean it isn’t- I’ve seen this shit building up for years 

 

Thanks for the above Theda. I could not agree more. I live just north of where this happened and have been where this happened many times. 

:grouphug:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, mankytoes said:

Of all the criticism I’ve received, that is amongst the hardest to process. I would genuinely appreciate it if you could explain what exactly that means, and what is bad about it. 

I did circle this back to women, but I did so specifically because this is the feminism thread. I thought that would be seen as a positive thing. I mean really it was the response to what I wrote, I wrote a fairly long post with a small part criticising specifically only the most radical feminists. Unfortunately, the response only has increased my perception that feminists have a particular problem processing criticism. 

The responses from women have been far more constructive. So maybe you should let them do the replying, which I believe is encouraged in feminist circles.

I understand, or at least I think I do, that you're trying to show at root that this is more of 'human' psychological issue as opposed to specific sex based one-- but I don't agree. That's why I don't like it. Not because it's bad per se, but because I think it's wrong.

We [men] have a problem. That problem is us. And, imo, the only way women come into that conversation -about that particular problem- is because far, far, FAR more often than not... our problems become theirs.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would like to expand on my earlier post as well. 

When I quipped about a lot of dudes in here having opinions on how women should act -- it wasn't necessarily targeted at any one person. That's me telling everyone collected here to stop and reflect and ask yourself: Am I bringing something to the table? Or am I taking up a bunch of space that I do not need to occupy? How can I help maintain vibrant discourse that centers women, rather than shifts the burden onto them while also silencing them? 

I've seen POC and especially WOC use this tactic to great effect, and it has really helped me to be a better ally in their struggle. Anyway, so when I see a topic being discussed that intimately affects women, and a lot of the discussion participants are men, I feel it useful to make sure that everyone reflects on their role and the stakes involved. It's too easy to get carried away in an Internet discussion and want to "win" at the expense of, well, pretty much everything and everyone. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Xray the Enforcer said:

It's too easy to get carried away in an Internet discussion and want to "win" at the expense of, well, pretty much everything and everyone. :)

I can own that on many of the early iterations of this board I was one, if not the worst, offender in that respect. 

I feel you, M.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, JEORDHl said:

We [men] have a problem. That problem is us. And, imo, the only way women come into that conversation -about that particular problem- is because far, far, FAR more often than not... our problems become theirs.   

Yes. This is the point I was trying to make earlier. The incel issue is not caused by women. It's caused by men, and men's expectations of other men (real or perceived). Women are just the scapegoat for those who feel that the real or perceived expectations are not met.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, JEORDHl said:

And in that respect, I can own that on many of the early iterations of this board I was one, if not the worst offender, in that respect. 

I feel you, M.

I am also very much guilty as charged in that realm. There's something to be said for getting older. :D 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, Xray the Enforcer said:

I've seen POC and especially WOC use this tactic to great effect, and it has really helped me to be a better ally in their struggle. 

The amount of times I've started typing a tweet replying to stuff like this, only to realise I'm not actually adding anything - just filling up the space with noise of agreement comes from exactly this. I try to instead step back and amplify the voices that need to be heard instead of adding mine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, karaddin said:

The amount of times I've started typing a tweet replying to stuff like this, only to realise I'm not actually adding anything - just filling up the space with noise of agreement comes from exactly this. I try to instead step back and amplify the voices that need to be heard instead of adding mine.

I should do this more, and I realize I'm dong the opposite right now.

Also where is @Lyanna Stark? Is there a beacon we can light?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

lol That was one of my first instincts as well, El Causto. Where. Is. Cerys.

---

I've written and backspaced 3 separate posts about incels. I don't know where to start. So then I wonder, am I ill-equipped for this subject? CAN I be ill-equipped?

Yeah. And that's part of the problem as Karaddin's link suggests.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Normies, Roasties, Stacys, Chads, Stepchads, Femoids. It's a whole different language. Taking a break, and will try not to ask myself why I'm doing this to myself. I know why. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...