HBO's Westworld V - These violent delights... [Spoilers]

[HokieStone]

3 minutes ago, dbunting said:

Couple hypothetical parks, which would you visit? Leave aside hosts humanity and such, and listing only the few my narrow mind can think of right now

Mid evil Europe(think GOT)

West World

Samurai World

Aztec Empire World

Roman Empire World

American Revolution world

Viking World

 

For me I think I would go Samurai and Viking. Always loved the look of Samurai, ninja type warriors. Viking, well who doesn't like Scandinavian women! Spent two days in Sweden and was just in awe, plus I don't mind cold weather.

Medieval World and Roman World were in the original movie - and I believe the producers have said that they will not be in the show.  Although, it seemed they were implying there would be no other "worlds" at all...and that clearly isn't true.  But yes, perhaps the samurai were only test robots for a future world that hasn't been built yet.  We were shown the control facility once, built into the side of a mesa...looked like it was smack in the middle of Westworld...but I suppose they could always say it sits at some central nexus between different parks.  But - and I'm no expert on Japanese geography - I don't think Japan has the same sweeping landscapes at the American southwest.

[dbunting]

3 minutes ago, HokieStone said:

Medieval World and Roman World were in the original movie - and I believe the producers have said that they will not be in the show.  Although, it seemed they were implying there would be no other "worlds" at all...and that clearly isn't true.  But yes, perhaps the samurai were only test robots for a future world that hasn't been built yet.  We were shown the control facility once, built into the side of a mesa...looked like it was smack in the middle of Westworld...but I suppose they could always say it sits at some central nexus between different parks.  But - and I'm no expert on Japanese geography - I don't think Japan has the same sweeping landscapes at the American southwest.

So....the question was which would you visit?

[DaveSumm]

8 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

Now, this was a bit of misdirection on the part of the writers.  We know from the last episode Bernard and Dolores never meet until that episode, because Ford wanted to save her from the trauma and confusion of seeing Arnold.  And we know Arnold could not have had this discussion with Dolores, because he dies before the park ever opened, and Dolores had not met any Newcomers yet.

This is exactly what I was after a few pages back, Dolores wonders who the voice is she's been hearing all this time. I think it could be a double twist; we think it's Bernard, then Arnold, but is actually her. These conversations she had "in her dreams" really were in her dreams and were a sign of her bicameral mind awakening.

[Leofric]

3 hours ago, dbunting said:

Couple hypothetical parks, which would you visit? Leave aside hosts humanity and such, and listing only the few my narrow mind can think of right now

Mid evil Europe(think GOT)

West World

Samurai World

Aztec Empire World

Roman Empire World

American Revolution world

Viking World

 

For me I think I would go Samurai and Viking. Always loved the look of Samurai, ninja type warriors. Viking, well who doesn't like Scandinavian women! Spent two days in Sweden and was just in awe, plus I don't mind cold weather.

Roman world would be for the days you just want to party, don your toga, hit some orgies, visit the vomitorium and then start over.  Viking World would be if your just looking for a bit of the ultraviolence and sailing.

 

But I think there are some technical issues with the other park scenarios, mainly how do you control the violence?   In Westworld , they control the ammunition so you can slow bullets down to not kill the humans.   But how do you do sword fights without it being obvious the hosts are pulling their punches or taking dives in fights with guests.  

 

[Lordsteve666]

Strange thing with there being other worlds though, do they circulate the hosts through them and how do you control what those hosts are capable of?

I mean obviously Samurai world will be limited somewhat ( but no reason they can't easily change the look of the hosts) but why keep the hosts to one area. We saw them reassign hosts to new stories, would they be sent to new parks entirely? I guess what i'm asking is do you think the whole thing with the host developing consciousness is limited to Westworld, or is it happened all over the parks? I mean Westworld seems to be the original so i'm guessing the hosts there are older. Ford and Arnold seemed to have a grand plan for Westworld from the start, and it seems Ford manipulated everything in S1 to achieve his aims, did their paln extend to other parks.
Perhaps the hosts in other parks are newer models with less impressive programming. Maybe only Westworld is used as a test bed where Ford and Bernard had free reign.

[GallowKnight]

5 hours ago, dbunting said:

Couple hypothetical parks, which would you visit? Leave aside hosts humanity and such, and listing only the few my narrow mind can think of right now

Mid evil Europe(think GOT)

West World

Samurai World

Aztec Empire World

Roman Empire World

American Revolution world

Viking World

 

For me I think I would go Samurai and Viking. Always loved the look of Samurai, ninja type warriors. Viking, well who doesn't like Scandinavian women! Spent two days in Sweden and was just in awe, plus I don't mind cold weather.

Pirate World obviously.

[Theda Baratheon]

8 hours ago, dbunting said:

So....the question was which would you visit?

None of them, no thanks - each one is determined by the writers' view of those time periods. maybe I could be a female writer of Roman world - balance out the sexism lol. 

[Theda Baratheon]

2 hours ago, GallowKnight said:

Pirate World obviously.

Oh that's another thing...hahaahah. if it was like pirates of the carribean that'd be awesome. 

[RumHam]

9 hours ago, polishgenius said:

 

I feel like Samurai World would be much harder to make work, for a variety of reasons. Not just the look of it but the cultural resonance of the Western in, well, the West plays in to how we watched the story and Samurai, for us, don't have the same meaningfulness. You could play it that where Westworld is aimed at Americans, Samurai World plays the same role for Japan: but in that case it'd all have to be in Japanese to make sense and I can't see them going that route...

Honestly, I suspect they just chucked it in there coz it looked cool. Like, why are the R&D offices even under Westworld, and not near Samurai World itself?

Still, we have to see something of it, they can't just show us the Armlesstice stinger and leave it there.

They said in an interview they chose Samurai because of their connection with Western movies. (I.e. Seven Samurai/Magnificent Seven Yojimbo/Fist Full of Dollars)

[williamjm]

11 hours ago, dbunting said:

Couple hypothetical parks, which would you visit? Leave aside hosts humanity and such, and listing only the few my narrow mind can think of right now

Middle Earth World.

Of course, there's no reason they necessarily have to stick with human hosts, I'm sure a theme park with robotic dinosaurs would be popular, they'd just need to think up a catchy name for it...

3 hours ago, Theda Baratheon said:

None of them, no thanks - each one is determined by the writers' view of those time periods. maybe I could be a female writer of Roman world - balance out the sexism lol. 

They could go futuristic as well. Maybe you might be tempted by a Blade Runner World, although I suppose there might be certain risks in having hosts involved in a storyline about conscious androids?

 

[RumHam]

17 minutes ago, williamjm said:

Of course, there's no reason they necessarily have to stick with human hosts, I'm sure a theme park with robotic dinosaurs would be popular, they'd just need to think up a catchy name for it...

The horses at least in Westworld were synthetic. (I'm hesitant to call them hosts.) But hell yes I would love to see a Jurassic...Land show up eventually.

Also now I'm kinda hoping season two contains a plot thread about a robot horse realizing he's a robot horse. 

[HexMachina]

1 hour ago, RumHam said:

The horses at least in Westworld were synthetic. (I'm hesitant to call them hosts.) But hell yes I would love to see a Jurassic...Land show up eventually.

Also now I'm kinda hoping season two contains a plot thread about a robot horse realizing he's a robot horse. 

Only if we also get a plot thread of a chicken realising he is not a chicken...

[Theda Baratheon]

8 hours ago, williamjm said:

Middle Earth World.

Of course, there's no reason they necessarily have to stick with human hosts, I'm sure a theme park with robotic dinosaurs would be popular, they'd just need to think up a catchy name for it...

They could go futuristic as well. Maybe you might be tempted by a Blade Runner World, although I suppose there might be certain risks in having hosts involved in a storyline about conscious androids?

 

I think NEXT SEASON is Blade Runner world love the film but I'm all for the androids - I couldn't be a blade runner tracking them down. 

[Mark Antony]

20 hours ago, HokieStone said:

Although, it seemed they were implying there would be no other "worlds" at all...and that clearly isn't true. .

I'd be willing to bet Shogun World (or any other parks besides Westworld) won't play much of a part in the tv series, just an easter egg type deal. 

[red snow]

12 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Only if we also get a plot thread of a chicken realising he is not a chicken...

let's not forget what comes first the sentient chicken or the sentient egg? Although I guess all the hosts are sterile? You can bet one of the clone models somehow becomes pregnant before the show ends though! They won't be able to resist that trope.

 

[TheKitttenGuard]

Rewatched episode 1:

Arnold's voice could well be Dolores receiving the reverie.  I think the questions are from when Arnold was alive.  Arnold had an understanding of what the park will be and we are hearing what led him to want to close the park. 

Rewatching the Dolores/MIB scenes makes more clear the depravity William's obsession with Dolores has reached.  

Dolores stated she thinks she does not know what Arnold's last words are.  There is a familiarity but she does not known.

I do not see the fly swatting scene as Dolores lying even more.  It is the first steps of her true awakening.

[Fragile Bird]

36 minutes ago, TheKitttenGuard said:

Rewatched episode 1:

Arnold's voice could well be Dolores receiving the reverie.  I think the questions are from when Arnold was alive.  Arnold had an understanding of what the park will be and we are hearing what led him to want to close the park. 

Rewatching the Dolores/MIB scenes makes more clear the depravity William's obsession with Dolores has reached.  

Dolores stated she thinks she does not know what Arnold's last words are.  There is a familiarity but she does not known.

I do not see the fly swatting scene as Dolores lying even more.  It is the first steps of her true awakening.

No, the questions are not from Arnold, because there is a discussion with Dolores about how she feels about the Newcomers, and she says they all love the Newcomers, and that every person she meets reminds her how happy she is to be alive. Arnold never met any Newcomers, it's not reasonable to think Arnold phrased any question this way. Take a look at the interviews Arnold did do with Dolores (every interview you first thought was with Bernard).

The voice she hears IS Arnold's voice, though. He says so in the last episode, that he would put his voice into the minds of the Hosts as the voice they hear telling them things, but his voice is actually their brains communicating with them. So the opening sequence with the questions is actually Dolores' own mind pointing out to her that the Newcomers can do whatever they want and the Hosts can't affect them.

Dolores did not 'receive' reveries from Arnold. We find out at the end that Arnold, not Ford, wrote the reveries software. A reverie is a gesture that acts like a fishing line that can pull up a memory that has been supposedly wiped clean from the memories of the Hosts. So you see Maeve rubbing her belly where the MiB stabbed her, or where the bullet was left in her in as she starts connecting gestures and memories, you see Teddy slipping his hand under his jacket where he was shot, you see Dolores often put her hands on her stomach, where Logan gutted her.

Think of your computer at home. We 'delete' stuff all the time, yet we are always reminded by the techs that you don't really delete anything. Think of how authorities seize computers, not only to look at recent stuff but to dig up the 'deleted' files. Imagine you could bring back that old love letter from the guy you broke up with 15 years ago just by rubbing your nose.

Over the years of our lives, we forget far more than we can ever remember (unless you belong to that unhappy group of people who remember everything forever), but memories can be triggered by scent, like smelling popcorn and remembering a happy occasion, by seeing a sign, an article of clothing, an advertisement, and memories come flooding back to you. Researchers suggest all your memories are still somewhere in your brain, you just can't access them, probably so you can carry on with life.  Think if you could never ever forget the death of a loved one.  The Hosts are having this problem, they have perfect recall when they do remember something, so real they don't know where they are.

[Guy Kilmore]

I'm of the opinion that Maeve's arc is going to be about waking up next season.  Ford alluded to what had to be done when he spoke with Delores, but by the time we encounter Delores she is well on her way.  Maeve is right at the start and according from what Ford she has to suffer and it feels like this suffering has to be a very personal.  (My own theory it has to be a creation of their own Cornerstone memory.)   So, at this point, who knows if she is deviating from her programming or not.  We know the escape was programmed, but once she snaps that tablet we don't know what direction she is going, we just know she does have Arnold's reverie program.

 

ETA:  Once Teddy starts going down the path of waking up, I think there are a lot of people who are in for a world of hurt.  He seems designed to be a very good killer.

[Ramsay B.]

15 minutes ago, Guy Kilmore said:

I'm of the opinion that Maeve's arc is going to be about waking up next season.  Ford alluded to what had to be done when he spoke with Delores, but by the time we encounter Delores she is well on her way.  Maeve is right at the start and according from what Ford she has to suffer and it feels like this suffering has to be a very personal.  (My own theory it has to be a creation of their own Cornerstone memory.)   So, at this point, who knows if she is deviating from her programming or not.  We know the escape was programmed, but once she snaps that tablet we don't know what direction she is going, we just know she does have Arnold's reverie program.

I think Maeve's daughter being killed and her reaction is why she was chosen by Ford to do what she did during the end of the season. She has obviously gone through some very personal suffering.

I did come on here to discuss what the actual point of the plan with Maeve was. Did it just act as a distraction for Ford to keep the security teams busy with chaos while he finished his master plan, and also bring Bernard back(which seems kind of obvious)? Did he really want Maeve to go out into the world even know she isn't truly ready? I'm sure this has been discussed but this thread moves fast.

[Fragile Bird]

4 minutes ago, Guy Kilmore said:

I'm of the opinion that Maeve's arc is going to be about waking up next season.  Ford alluded to what had to be done when he spoke with Delores, but by the time we encounter Delores she is well on her way.  Maeve is right at the start and according from what Ford she has to suffer and it feels like this suffering has to be a very personal.  (My own theory it has to be a creation of their own Cornerstone memory.)   So, at this point, who knows if she is deviating from her programming or not.  We know the escape was programmed, but once she snaps that tablet we don't know what direction she is going, we just know she does have Arnold's reverie program.

 

ETA:  Once Teddy starts going down the path of waking up, I think there are a lot of people who are in for a world of hurt.  He seems designed to be a very good killer.

I want to finish my comments about Episode 1 later today (I should not have had that glass of wine that night  ) but what stands out to me is how many times Teddy has been killed and his eyes are wide open, looking towards something or someone. He may be 'dead' but I bet that processing unit called his brain is recording everything.  I'm thinking about the rowdy guys who went out with him and were enjoying the ladies, when one of them says Teddy creeps him out, and if they get bored they can take him out to the desert and use him for target practice, as the camera pans back to see Teddy sitting on the porch, presumably recording it all.