Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Lost Melnibonean

Wow, I never noticed that v.15

Recommended Posts

I can't believe this only just occurred to me -- Lyanna/Robert/Rhaegar = Arya/Gendry/Jon (Jon, of course, on GRRM's original plan)

This is neutral as to whether Arya and Gendry get together - it would either foreshadow it or (ironically) A + G would work out.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Those you call the children of the forest have eyes as golden as the sun, but once in a great while one is born amongst them with eyes as red as blood, or green as the moss on a tree in the heart of the forest. By these signs do the gods mark those they have chosen to receive the gift. The chosen ones are not robust, and their quick years upon the earth are few, for every song must have its balance. But once inside the wood they linger long indeed. A thousand eyes, a hundred skins, wisdom deep as the roots of ancient trees.

Missed this obvious hint that Bran (at least in his 'human' life) may not even last out the series, and in a sense is already dead.

No doubt joining the 'godhood' is a kind of death - their "quick years upon the earth are few".  If "quick years" simply meant "don't live long", the sentence is tautologous, since it means the same as "their ... years .... are few".  

Part of the tragedy of Bran is that, in a real sense, he is killed by the fall.  (There are lots of textual hints for this).

In other words, the metaphor of the greenseer/shaman dying and experiencing a rebirth into their spiritual powers is no mere metaphor.  The price of their power is their own (earthly) life.  They are their own blood sacrifice.

This only strengthens jojenpaste ... it seems in the whole weirwood/greenseer mythos, GRRM is concerned to make the metaphors real.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Aemon Targaryen said:

"Those you call the children of the forest have eyes as golden as the sun, but once in a great while one is born amongst them with eyes as red as blood, or green as the moss on a tree in the heart of the forest. By these signs do the gods mark those they have chosen to receive the gift. The chosen ones are not robust, and their quick years upon the earth are few, for every song must have its balance. But once inside the wood they linger long indeed. A thousand eyes, a hundred skins, wisdom deep as the roots of ancient trees.

Missed this obvious hint that Bran (at least in his 'human' life) may not even last out the series, and in a sense is already dead.

No doubt joining the 'godhood' is a kind of death - their "quick years upon the earth are few".  If "quick years" simply meant "don't live long", the sentence is tautologous, since it means the same as "their ... years .... are few".  

Part of the tragedy of Bran is that, in a real sense, he is killed by the fall.  (There are lots of textual hints for this).

In other words, the metaphor of the greenseer/shaman dying and experiencing a rebirth into their spiritual powers is no mere metaphor.  The price of their power is their own (earthly) life.  They are their own blood sacrifice.

This only strengthens jojenpaste ... it seems in the whole weirwood/greenseer mythos, GRRM is concerned to make the metaphors real.

"Quick" also to be alive. That's where the term "quickening" comes from. So, quick years means years alive. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/22/2017 at 5:19 PM, Wolfgirly said:

What happened to the wolf cake that Hot Pie gave to Brienne to give to Arya? Eventually Brienne found Arya but was the cake already eaten or gone off?

Show only. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Aemon Targaryen said:

In other words, the metaphor of the greenseer/shaman dying and experiencing a rebirth into their spiritual powers is no mere metaphor.  The price of their power is their own (earthly) life.  They are their own blood sacrifice.

I would consider adding infertility as a variation of this. Maesters are shamans of a sort and have no children. Same with the Silent Sisters who are healers of the dead. It's implied that Jojen will have no children. Dany gains abilities and becomes infertile human-wise, but gains fertility when it comes to dragons. Bran loses his fertility and gains sight. MMR is forty but has no children.She claims she paid a steep price for her knowledge and I suspect fertility was that price. In the Dothraki culture, eunuchs and the barren are the healers. Maggy the Frog had only 1 child so perhaps she learned her skills after the birth of her only child. As Cersei ventures into the magical via Qyburn, her children die. Mel doesn't recall having any children. BR has no children.

Losing fertility and gaining healing/magical abilities can be seen as a variation of only death (or non-birth) can pay for life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Ned Stark dismounted in a fury. "A brothel," he said as he seized Littlefinger by the shoulder and spun him around. "You've brought me all this way to take me to a brothel."

"Your wife is inside," Littlefinger said.

It was the final insult. "Brandon was too kind to you," Ned said as he slammed the small man back against a wall and shoved his dagger up under the little pointed chin beard. (Eddard IV, AGOT 20)

Quote

Ned's shout came far too late. Janos Slynt himself slashed open Varly's throat. Cayn whirled, steel flashing, drove back the nearest spearman with a flurry of blows; for an instant it looked as though he might cut his way free. Then the Hound was on him. Sandor Clegane's first cut took off Cayn's sword hand at the wrist; his second drove him to his knees and opened him from shoulder to breastbone.

As his men died around him, Littlefinger slid Ned's dagger from its sheath and shoved it up under his chin. His smile was apologetic. "I did warn you not to trust me, you know." (Eddard XIV, AGOT 49)

Not sure how I missed this parallel before.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Khal Drogo unfastened his belt. The medallions were pure gold massive and ornate, each one as large as a man's hand. (AGoT, Daenerys V)

. . . Qhorin kept his feet. But in that instant, as he twisted, the opening was there. Jon planted and pivoted. . . . Then a string of red tears appeared across the big man's throat, bright as a ruby necklace. . . . (ACoK, Jon VIII)

A chain of linked gold hands, each holding the next. . . . Tyrion slid a hand under his father's chain, and twisted. (ASoS, Tyrion XI)

So Viserys, Qhorin and Shae were killed by gold medallions, a ruby necklace and a chain of gold.

Viserys was the brother of Daenerys, Qhorin was the Night's Watch brother of Jon Snow, and Shae was . . .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Seams said:

Khal Drogo unfastened his belt. The medallions were pure gold massive and ornate, each one as large as a man's hand. (AGoT, Daenerys V)

. . . Qhorin kept his feet. But in that instant, as he twisted, the opening was there. Jon planted and pivoted. . . . Then a string of red tears appeared across the big man's throat, bright as a ruby necklace. . . . (ACoK, Jon VIII)

A chain of linked gold hands, each holding the next. . . . Tyrion slid a hand under his father's chain, and twisted. (ASoS, Tyrion XI)

So Viserys, Qhorin and Shae were killed by gold medallions, a ruby necklace and a chain of gold.

Viserys was the brother of Daenerys, Qhorin was the Night's Watch brother of Jon Snow, and Shae was . . .

Bronn's sister?

Also I don't think Qhorin counts. His cut throat's blood being described as a ruby necklace as opposed to be actually being killed by gold belt or chain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/29/2017 at 9:08 PM, Shmedricko said:
Quote

Ned Stark dismounted in a fury. "A brothel," he said as he seized Littlefinger by the shoulder and spun him around. "You've brought me all this way to take me to a brothel."

"Your wife is inside," Littlefinger said.

It was the final insult. "Brandon was too kind to you," Ned said as he slammed the small man back against a wall and shoved his dagger up under the little pointed chin beard. (Eddard IV, AGOT 20)

Quote

Ned's shout came far too late. Janos Slynt himself slashed open Varly's throat. Cayn whirled, steel flashing, drove back the nearest spearman with a flurry of blows; for an instant it looked as though he might cut his way free. Then the Hound was on him. Sandor Clegane's first cut took off Cayn's sword hand at the wrist; his second drove him to his knees and opened him from shoulder to breastbone.

As his men died around him, Littlefinger slid Ned's dagger from its sheath and shoved it up under his chin. His smile was apologetic. "I did warn you not to trust me, you know." (Eddard XIV, AGOT 49)

Not sure how I missed this parallel before.

It's what I've termed the 'mocking' and the 'counter-mocking' response.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Seams said:

Khal Drogo unfastened his belt. The medallions were pure gold massive and ornate, each one as large as a man's hand. (AGoT, Daenerys V)

. . . Qhorin kept his feet. But in that instant, as he twisted, the opening was there. Jon planted and pivoted. . . . Then a string of red tears appeared across the big man's throat, bright as a ruby necklace. . . . (ACoK, Jon VIII)

A chain of linked gold hands, each holding the next. . . . Tyrion slid a hand under his father's chain, and twisted. (ASoS, Tyrion XI)

So Viserys, Qhorin and Shae were killed by gold medallions, a ruby necklace and a chain of gold.

Viserys was the brother of Daenerys, Qhorin was the Night's Watch brother of Jon Snow, and Shae was . . .

That's a bit abstruse!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Two Brazen Beasts followed Quentyn down the steps as Daenerys led the prince to meet her children. One was masked as a fish, the other as a hawk. 

A fish hawk is an osprey. 

Pliny the Elder wrote that ospreys made their young fly up to the sun as a test, and dispatched any that failed. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Two Brazen Beasts followed Quentyn down the steps as Daenerys led the prince to meet her children. One was masked as a fish, the other as a hawk. 

A fish hawk is an osprey. 

Pliny the Elder wrote that ospreys made their young fly up to the sun as a test, and dispatched any that failed. 

Very nice catch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone else ever wonder about the Lannister eye colors? I think lions have golden/brown eyes... And cats often have green. Tywin interestingly has gold  flecks in his eyes, but the rest of the Lannisters are only noted as having green eyes, except for heterochromic Tyrion with his black eye. I guess Tywin is the only true "lion" and maybe Tyrion's heterochromia symbolizes that he doesn't really belong/fit in with the Lannisters. Then, I wonder what the "true lion" concept is supposed to entail exactly? (And of course, that is assuming it's legitimate)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This has all probably been mentioned before, but as I'm rereading the books, I'm noticing a lot of subtle foreshadowing, such as the use of "mayhaps" in the Frey boys' game, and Theon's comment about how Greyjoys only get killed when they're murdered by their brothers. 

In the appendix for AGOT, Rhaenyra is said to be only one year older than Aegon. I'm curious as to what the story behind the Dance of the Dragons would have been had it remained that way. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

This has all probably been mentioned before, but as I'm rereading the books, I'm noticing a lot of subtle foreshadowing, such as the use of "mayhaps" in the Frey boys' game, and Theon's comment about how Greyjoys only get killed when they're murdered by their brothers. 

There is a Momentsof Foreshadowing thread you might like...

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/145309-moments-of-foreshadowing-v12/

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There have been a bunch of offbeat theories about the Dusky Woman and also a few as to Illyn Payne (my favorite is that Euron is warging Victarion's sex slave, er... excuse me, thrall), but I think it most likely that the author is simply using both of them simply to develop Victarion  Greyjoy and Jaime Lannister. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Euron sent three cages of ravens with Kerwin, so Victarion could send word of his voyage, but how could a raven fly for days across the open sea? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

how could a raven fly for days across the open sea? 

Releasing the ravens is an old Viking trick to find land. Of course, it relied on never being so far from land that the raven couldn't see the shore. Ravens can fly for days across an open sea. They are not built like albatross, who can fly a quarter of the way round the world non-stop, and it would be a doomed and desperate raven that flew even one day in any direction when they couldn't see land, but they are strong birds with a large wingspan, and with favourable winds and with ground effect (which still works on the sea, and if it is a calm sea, more effectively than undulating land) and thermals, it is not implausible.

If you look at the birds of New Zealand, while a large number are endemic, and a large number are introduced by humans (eg. chaffinches, starlings, blackbirds), and of course a number of migratory birds, there are some few that seem to have flown/been blown across from the east coast of Australia that would not normally migrate over sea. One of these, the Australasian magpie, is of comparable shape and size to a raven. It would take such a bird more than a week to get to New Zealand, even with the most favourable winds.

Come to think of it, Noah let a raven out after the 40 days of flood, and it did not return (whatever that means). Then he switched to doves. The first dove did exactly the same as the raven, but he stuck to doves, and the second dove came back. I'm guessing the other two birds were behaving normally and giving him a clue about how to navigate. That the reason for the raven was because it was a bigger bird, bigger wing span, could fly further than a dove over water. That he was waiting til he was hopefully closer to land before releasing the dove. That the second dove was behaving abnormally/miraculously by returning with a stick in its mouth, like a dog.

Anyway, the Viking longboats were very rarely more than a day or two from sight of land - like the Polynesian and Maori Waka, long boats were used mostly for fishing and trading, for a bit of island hopping and a lot of coastal and estuarine navigation. The great migrations and voyages of exploration were legendary because they were almost as miraculous as a bird flying back to the ship with a symbol of land-based prosperity in its mouth.

Euron knew what his brother was like - Ironborn to the bone, and not open to new ideas. I doubt he expected Victarion to write him a letter every Sunday, keep in touch, give my regards to the salt wife.

The main purpose of giving Victarion Kerwin and all the ravens of Greenshield was to ensure that the Reach and Highgarden were deprived of intelligence about Euron's adventures along the coast of Westeros towards Oldtown. I'm wondering what a normal amount of ravens for Greenshield would be, and who they were in the habit of communicating with. Because an interruption in communication to a place that is regularly relaying, can be a communication in itself, and Margaery seems very quick off the mark to identify the seriousness of the problem in the Shield Islands.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×